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The demise of the US dollar.


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#21 obmar

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 09:45 PM

CA, dont worry, Allah is just a prayer away
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#22 Lumberjack

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 09:48 PM

I did not mean to say that JPMC is the only actor in the manipulation of markets,only that there is far more going on with that company than meets the eye.

I'd like very much for somebody to explain the "strong dollar" policy of the 90's How exactly did they strengthen the dollar? could it be they flooded the market with gold to keep its price suppressed and hide the runaway growth of the money supply?

simplification;

Equities/real estate/treasuries are still grossly overvalued.

Debt is at record levels and is secured by overvalued assets.

Banks are overextended and are taking on more and more leverage to remain solvent.

Businesses are extending cheaper and cheaper credit in order to move product.

The financial system is becoming more and more fragile as time goes on, there are very few options left. None of them good.

This applies largely to all the industrialized nations,although the US is particularly vulnerable currency-wise.

I expect competitive devaluations of currencies to continue and intensify.
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#23 Lumberjack

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:04 PM

fu2,

That would be a mistake. Taking advantage of the current difficulties in the US for kicks or to punish us for acting in our own best interest despite the disapproval of other nations will not make the world a better place. Regardless of anyone helping the collapse along the entire globe is headed for a dark time. If the US government is given a scapegoat depression will lead to war,as it always has in the past. Best case is we see a worldwide inflation followed by a new currency regime, which by the way is the only hope for peace,since fiat money systems are a prerequisite for extended war. The world wars could never have happened if everybody'd stayed on the gold standard.
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#24 Gandu

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:29 PM

I would think a lot of trickey was used. The europeans invested all that money in the US at the top of the bubble and paid off the guys who pushed the asset bubble sky high. The japanese were smarter, they bought US bonds with their money so the dollar got stronger since supply was drying up. In fact the Japanese give back dollars just to keep it strong.

I think the dollar got strong because everyone else got fooled. All their money is now in the hands of the buffett's. Now it does not matter if it get weaker because it is not worth anywhere close to where it was sold at before. Swtiching the oil to euro like Iraq did and like Iran is planning to do will start the slide much faster. I do not think gold will make a come back as currency. But its value should keep on going up. If the derivative bubble blows up we can see gold going for 10K.
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#25 stakhanov's cat

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:33 PM

Lumberjack and Atomant, you are both to be commended for a superb thread. I would have contributed myself but you have managed to, more or less, cover most of the pertinent issues at stake. The issue of the Petrodollar being the most crucial.

I have become so pessimistic of late that I have even stopped trading gold-shares(AEM was my favourite play) and have started buying solid ingots and coins in preparation for the inevitable meltdown.

Wishing you all the best with your future endeavours.
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#26 Gandu

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Mae
I copied this from GNN, someone called thepete wrote this
---


What's particularly interesting about that article is that it's dated just a few days before 9-11...

But that aside, here goes:

Iraq likes to mess with the USG - so they refuse to sell oil to anyone using US$. They'll ONLY sell to people using the Euro. This means that possibly billions of dollars DO NOT enter the American economy.

Any takers on this being the real reason King George is so gung-ho for an Iraq Attack?

Just think about it - Iraq has the second largest oil supply in the world. The only way to buy it is to buy Euros first. ALL that money buying Euros first! It used to be American money but not any more...

Why do you think Europe is having such a hard time falling in line with the US on this? Think it's the WMD? I don't...

Oh and in case you're not convinced, I found this article:

http://www.feasta.or...papers/oil1.htm

Enjoy...


Link
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#27 Gandu

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:43 PM

BINGO!

I think this is it. The reason to invade Iraq and prop up an american puppet.
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#28 stakhanov's cat

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:47 PM

I posted this link a couple of days ago but no one seemed interested. The article is too big to cut and paste I'm afraid:


http://www.rense.com...al34/realre.htm

Enjoy
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#29 Gandu

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 10:57 PM

I was wondering why powell turned. This makes perfect sence. Also why germany and france the leaders of the Euro do not want the war.
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#30 obmar

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 11:01 PM

This must be what I meant when I said "zoombies"

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be ...
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#31 Gandu

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 11:06 PM

The US Department of Energy announced at the beginning of this month that by 2025, US oil imports will account for perhaps 70 % of total US domestic demand. (It was 55 % two years ago.)


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daduron
[B][b]This looming war is all about
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#32 atomant

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 11:24 PM

The sycophantic flattery by the Keynesian market experts over the last few years would have us expect to see Alan Greenspan forever remembered as the greatest economist and monetary manipulator of all time. Instead, his fate appears to be turning in the direction Austrian economists have long predicted. He may be remembered as being the worlds most overrated and dangerous economist.

He has obeyed the fearless cries of encouragement from the proponents of easy credit for too long, and now it seems his boat is heading straight for the rocks. The only question seems to be, will he decide to add some extra fuel to his load. It seems the Federal Bank
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#33 atomant

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Posted 07 February 2003 - 11:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stakhanov's cat
[B].

February 7, 2003
Financial Reporters Have Started To realize That Mr. Bush Is Out Of Control
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#34 Lumberjack

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:16 AM

I really don't think this is a political issue. Bush could not have rescued the economy from the bubble no matter what he did. This crisis has been decades in the making and those who wish to blame bush are the same folks who believed in the new paradigm of the 90's. I do agree he's making mistakes but cutting taxes isn't one of them. Unfortunately massive tax cuts are the only hope to postpone the inevitable recession( we haven't even reached the real recession yet as consumer spending is only now starting to slow) Tax cuts signify a tactical decision to burn the currency rather than allow a protracted depression and bankruptcy cascade. Bush simply has no choices. The funny thing is that so many on capital hill are still discussing social security like it has a future.

Have you read gold and financial freedom by Alan Greenspan circa 1966? fascinating stuff as he essentially agrees with all of us,and has stated recently that his views haven't changed. Hard to square that with his tenure at the fed. I'd love to have a private conversation with the man.
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#35 American Guy

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:33 AM

The sky is falling, the sky is falling..

Its better than when Carter left office 1981, then the great expansion began.

Not to worry, the stupid lose, the smart win.
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#36 Lumberjack

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:39 AM

American guy,

When carter left office the total debt of the US was 4 trillion dollars,now it's 35 trillion. Manufacturing is about the same. This doesn't bother you at all? Every fiat money system in history has failed in exactly the same way,we seem to be approaching that point. Believe or do not, it's your net worth on the line, mine is protected.
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#37 atomant

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Lumberjack
I really don't think this is a political issue. Bush could not have rescued the economy from the bubble no matter what he did. This crisis has been decades in the making and those who wish to blame bush are the same folks who believed in the new paradigm of the 90's. I do agree he's making mistakes but cutting taxes isn't one of them. Unfortunately massive tax cuts are the only hope to postpone the inevitable recession( we haven't even reached the real recession yet as consumer spending is only now starting to slow) Tax cuts signify a tactical decision to burn the currency rather than allow a protracted depression and bankruptcy cascade. Bush simply has no choices. The funny thing is that so many on capital hill are still discussing social security like it has a future.

Have you read gold and financial freedom by Alan Greenspan circa 1966? fascinating stuff as he essentially agrees with all of us,and has stated recently that his views haven't changed. Hard to square that with his tenure at the fed. I'd love to have a private conversation with the man.




I agree this can't all be blamed on Bush, it started with Carter de-regulating the savings and loan industry which opened the doors to financial scandal one right after another...then next came the print money -- spend and tax era ushered in under "Reganomics" which by the way is still our course. If not for the true American hero's of the 80's and 90's "Gates and the rest of the Silicon Movers and Shakers" we would have already been in a big mess long earlier.

Actually I think the purge needs to happen sooner than later...we will need a crash before the economy can get back to realness (PE 7-12 range) instead of continuing to try and nurse an ailing economy with more of what
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#38 uglybastard

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 12:48 AM

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

said Henny Penny.

Lumberjack, are you Henny Pennny?
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#39 Lumberjack

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 01:00 AM

http://www.gold-eagl...nspan041998.htm

worth the read.

Henny penny panicked over nothing. Those who actually believe the economis numbers put out by the government and the talking heads on CNBC delude themselves. I do neither. We are all children of the spring and summer,autumn is passing and winter draws neigh,my wood is dry,my stack is large, I have no fear. I only mention there is a chill in the air.
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#40 uglybastard

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 01:02 AM

lumberjack, I think you're panicking over nothing just like Henny Penny.

The US economy is undergoing a sluggish recovery or so everyone says.

I try to stay away from those wierdo internet sites. They poison your mind.
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