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Powell's tissue of lies


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#1 zhurnalist

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 02:30 PM

What is your opinion of Powell's speech to the UN Security Council?
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#2 Missouri Mule

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 02:34 PM

Well, obviously we know yours. You love dictators so why should we be surprised? :)
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#3 JezMan

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 02:37 PM

Poor Collin.

I think he was blushing by his own shame :)
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#4 vigorous

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 02:39 PM

Since I am not an expert, I need to
rely on those who are experts to say
whether what Powell showed was worthy
of heightened concern.

PBS arrayed 3 experts on the news last night.
Their opinions quite consistently confirmed
there is at the very least solid evidence in the
presentation of non-co-operation with the
process of inspection, a fundamental obligation
of Iraq under 1441.

Among the experts was an European who had
served as an inspector in years gone by. It was his
opinion I found most convincing.

"They know what they signed."
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#5 IceHawk

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 02:53 PM

I think Secretary Powell did an excellent job of showing Iraq in a consistent pattern of non-compliance to 687 and 1441.

He also conveyed very well that the onus of proof of disarmament lies with Iraq and can only be gauged by their level of cooperation. Iraq must willfully disarm with the help of the inspectors. The inpector's job should not entail them trying to find what Iraq has hidden but rather to cooperate in the safe and expedient destruction of WMD's under UN Supervision. The 'smoking gun' syndrome is a fallacy in logic for those who are opposed to enforcing UN Resolution 687 and 1441.

The only question that remains is what will the Security Council do to enforce it's will. Their decision will dictate whether the UN will be considered relevant in future world events.

Good Day.
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#6 LifeisGood

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:11 PM

zhurnalist and JezMan are not open to any evidence the US can provide. I believe their anti-Americanism is a by-product of old Europe. Not to worry their ideas are dying as the world moves into the future.
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#7 vigorous

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:13 PM

Odd, that. zhur's in Portugal. Part of "New Europe".
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#8 LifeisGood

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:17 PM

I just said his ideas are a by- product of old Europe.
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#9 Guest__*

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:19 PM

What would happen if they willfully disarmed under UN supervision? Would the sanctions be lifted? Or would this only avert war?
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#10 vigorous

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:21 PM

GW Bush said "regime change" could mean a change
in the conduct of the affairs of the Iraqi state.

Dumping all WMD is regime change, ergo there
would be no need of sanctions.
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#11 Source

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 03:35 PM

pomp and circumstantial evidence. these hellmongers appear to be getting away with hoodwinking their own people, fools. the american intelligence agencies have all been crying about the immense pressure they face to spin their findings to fit the whitehouse agenda, there are lines of experts unconnected with the administration who can find absolutely no evidence of any link between iraq and al-queada, the inspectors have found very little to show for their (american sanctioned) work, there is no smoking gun, and it's excruciatingly embarrassing to watch these so called grown men create a piece of fluff with which to go and murder women and children with.


lifeisgood, if you actually believe what you wrote you're in need of therapy.
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#12 vigorous

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 04:07 PM

If you respect Wm Saletan's work, check this out:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2078209/
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#13 Missouri Mule

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:25 PM

"What would happen if they willfully disarmed under UN supervision? Would the sanctions be lifted?"

I believe it would. There is still the probable Al Queda connection but on balance I believe it would obligate the U.N. to vote to remove the sanctions. Certainly it would cut the legs out from under the U.S. But the really sad thing is that Iraq could have had those sanctions removed 10 years ago. All they ever had to do was to abide by their treaty they signed at the end of the war. But they chose instead to do what they are still doing. Deny, delay and discourage.

Plsek: Do you know where I first heard these three words? In a child support conference from a practicing defense attorney telling how putative fathers could get by without paying child support. It also works in the international political arena, at least for a while. But not forever, unless we are willing to let it happen.
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#14 Adrian

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Plsek
What would happen if they willfully disarmed under UN supervision? Would the sanctions be lifted? Or would this only avert war?


Rationally, that would be an ideal solution, but it's bit difficult as long as Saddam says he have no weapons, therefore impossible to disarm :rolleyes:

Let's hope that this solution will be implemented before it's too late. Just bit of goodwill for both parts, and peace will be established again.
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#15 Adrian

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:33 PM

Originally posted by zhurnalist
What is your opinion of Powell's speech to the UN Security Council?



I guess you mean the "evidences" more than the speech itself, rigth?
Noone have a chance to verify such pictures and phonebuggings, so I guess it moves nothing at all. Those that believes Saddam from the beginning still do it, and those that support USA still do it.
I personally belive that USA is manipulating the truth less than Saddam does, but I can't say I have real confidence in any of the 2 parts.
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#16 Mae

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:35 PM

Well, I just watched Iraq's response to Powell's speech live on BBC

And it's pretty clear Powell got slamm dunked by the Iraq.
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#17 Missouri Mule

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:39 PM

Well, that is exactly what I would expect out of the likes of you, Mae.
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#18 Mae

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:39 PM

Originally posted by ImperalistSwine
Well, that is exactly what I would expect out of the likes of you, Mae.



Well, watch it yourself. Then open your mouth.
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#19 Missouri Mule

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:48 PM

"Programmes for weapons of mass destruction are not like an aspirin pill, easily hidden. They require huge production facilities, starting from research and development facilities, to factories, to weaponisation, then deployment. Such things cannot be concealed. Inspectors have criss-crossed all of Iraq and have found none of that."
Iraq's UN Ambassador Mohammed Aldouri "
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This is from the BBC web site. What in addition to this did the Iraqi ambassador say?

I don't have BBC television. The Iraqi response at the U.N. was aired yesterday on several news networks and has been analyzed thoroughly. What exactly are you referring to? Was there another press conference today?

Do you have a transcript or a web link? I'll read it and comment.
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#20 Mae

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Posted 06 February 2003 - 05:50 PM

Originally posted by ImperalistSwine
"Programmes for weapons of mass destruction are not like an aspirin pill, easily hidden. They require huge production facilities, starting from research and development facilities, to factories, to weaponisation, then deployment. Such things cannot be concealed. Inspectors have criss-crossed all of Iraq and have found none of that."
Iraq's UN Ambassador Mohammed Aldouri "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from the BBC web site. What in addition to this did the Iraqi ambassador say?

I don't have BBC television. The Iraqi response at the U.N. was aired yesterday on several news networks and has been analyzed thoroughly. What exactly are you referring to? Was there another press conference today?

Do you have a transcript or a web link? I'll read it and comment.



That is old.
The Iraq response to powell is still going on, im pretty sure it will be on BBC soon.
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