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Jesus (pbuh) in the Koran; Nazarenes, Paul and Christians


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#81 Agnostic

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 04:05 PM

Easy pal.
1. Yoga.
2. Chinese deep-breathing exercises. (1 & 2 for half an hour a day)
3. A peg of scotch a day (no more, mind you).
4. Cut down non-veg food to once a week, or better still, eat only fish instead of meat.
5. Regular sex.
6. Don't worry about anything. What will be, will be.
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#82 obmar

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 02:20 AM

i thought you missed the thick cheque book part.:D
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#83 Agnostic

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 02:24 PM

If you can read and assimilate the Book of Tao, you'll understand that a cheque book although necessary, is not everything.
On a more serious note, forget No 3 in my list. As a pious Muslim, I doubt you imbibe alcohol.
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#84 obmar

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 02:38 PM

Yes, I don't imbibe in alcohol, no thanks.

And I agree, turning to the Qur'an, there are several beautiful verses that encourage the redistribution of wealth in contradistinction to the accumulation and concentration of wealth. One from Surat-ul-Hadid, verse 17, is as follows:

17. For those who given in charity, men and women, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, it shall be increased manifold to their credit, and they shall have a noble reward*

Two levels of wealth redistribution are spoken of here: 1) regular charity that a pious man should render to the poor and needy and 2) the beautiful loan to Allah, a beautiful spiritual metaphor for the redistribution of wealth beyond charity, a redistribution to maintain socio-economic justice which is an aspect of doing Allah's work on earth. The one who willingly redistributes his wealth in Allah's way receives "a noble reward," a reward that comes both in this life and the hereafter.
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#85 Agnostic

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 02:51 PM

I am familiar with Zakat, obmar.
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#86 obmar

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 03:06 PM

that one embodies more than just zakat
it dictates a whole economic system and wealth distribution,
and the accumulation of wealth.
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#87 Agnostic

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 04:19 PM

Sounds like Communism:D
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#88 obmar

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 03:45 AM

you get the benefit of both worlds.


17. For those who given in charity,
men and women,
and loan to Allah a beautiful loan,
it shall be increased manifold to their credit,
and they shall have a noble reward*


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#89 Agnostic

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 04:17 AM

What if you believe only in one world and do your charity bit without expecting any reward in an imaginary after-world?
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#90 obmar

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 04:45 AM

then see it as benefits from both capitalism
as well as communism.
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#91 Agnostic

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 04:47 AM

:)
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#92 obmar

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 04:56 AM

accumulate as much as you like so long as it is rightful,
but remember what you have is only a trust
and everyone is going to be questioned on how
they use what they were trusted with.
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#93 obmar

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 12:22 AM

AL-
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#94 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 12:25 AM

soulgazer, you dont want to give your input in this thread....

i do miss Patience's input, greatly.
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#95 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:16 AM

Originally posted by obmar
soulgazer, you dont want to give your input in this thread....

i do miss Patience's input, greatly.



Obmar my friend, my soul always rejoices in peace. I have nothing to add to your text.
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#96 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:21 AM

Originally posted by


The Nazarenes are a type of priesthood requiring them to have long hair and abstain from wine and grapes. It was ordained in the old testament one of which was Samson.



is this true?
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#97 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:31 AM

Originally posted by obmar
is this true?



I think they are confused with the Nazirites. The two are very oftene confused. The Nazorean Essene were the first Christian, being of the Ebonites, were strict vegetarian and very spiritual. They believed in the Oneness of God and His creation. They were a bit too spiritual for the Gnostics, claiming that Jesus rose from the dead only in spirit, although the Gnostics also believe in the Oneness of creation, which was far too spiritual for the Pauline, who came up with the Holy Trinity.
I also notice that the conception was written wrong, as the essene believed that the Holy Spirit entered into both Joseph and Mary, and Jesus was concieved as a result of their first coupling.....conceived of a virgin.

The Nazirite was anyone under a Holy Vow, and could be from any tribe, and the Nazir tradition lasted long after the birth of Christ.
The one under a vow could not have anything to do with grapes, wine or raisins, and could not go near a corpse. after the duration of the vow the head was then shaven, unless like Sampson, it was a life long vow.
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#98 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:39 AM

Nazarenes were the actual followers of Prophet Jesus, whereas "Christians" was a name adopted by Paul and used to distinguish his followers from the "Nazarenes".

Who were the Nazarenes?
A sect of Judaism, followers of Prophet Jesus of Nazareth.

What is Nazareth?
The town in which Prophet Jesus started preaching.

Where did the name Christian come from?
Christian is the name given by Paul to his followers.
What did Allah instructed Prophet Muhammad to say:
"Say (Prophet Muhammad): 'If the Merciful had a son, I would be the first of the worshipers.'" Ch 43:81

Who was the guardian of Mary?
"Her Lord graciously accepted her (Mary). He made her grow with a fine upbringing and entrusted her to the care of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah went to her in the sanctuary, he found that she had provision with her. 'Mary,' he said, 'how does this come to you?' 'It is from Allah,' she answered. Truly, Allah provides whomsoever He will without reckoning." Ch 3:37

Was Joseph engaged or the guardian of Mary?
No, Zachariah was her only guardian. Zachariah was a prophet, the father of John the Baptist, and we are told by Prophet Muhammad, that Zachariah was also a carpenter. This statement was recorded by the scholar of Prophetic quotations, Imam Nawawi and can be found in his book "The Gardens of Righteous People".

How did the virgin Mary conceive?
"We sent to her Our Spirit (Gabriel) in the resemblance of a perfect human. (And when she saw him) she said: 'I take refuge in the Merciful from you! If you are fearful.'
'I am the Messenger of your Lord,' he replied, 'and have come to give you a pure boy.' 'How shall I bear a son,' she answered, 'when I am not touched by a human and not unchaste?' Even so your Lord has said: 'Easy it is for Me. And We shall make him a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us. This is Our decree.' Thereupon she conceived him, and retired to a far off place."
Ch19:17-22

Where was Prophet Jesus born?
"And when the birth-pangs surprised her by the trunk of a palm-tree, she said: 'Oh, would that I had died before this and become a thing forgotten!' He called from below to her: 'Do not sorrow, look, your Lord has provided a rivulet below you, and shake the trunk of this palm-tree it will drop fresh ripe dates upon you.
Therefore eat and drink and rejoice with your eyes. If you meet any human say to him: "I have vowed a fast to the Merciful and will not speak with anyone today."'

She came to her nation, carrying him; and they said: 'O Mary, you have committed a monstrous thing. O sister of Aaron, your father was never an evil man, nor was your mother unchaste.' Mary pointed to him (Prophet Jesus). But they replied: 'How can we speak with a baby in the cradle?' He (the baby Prophet Jesus) said: 'I am the worshiper of Allah. Allah has given me the Book and made me a Prophet. He made me to be blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with prayer and charity for as long as I shall live. He has made me kind to my mother; He has not made me arrogant, unprosperous. Peace be upon me on the day I was born, and on the day I die; and on the day when I shall be raised up alive.' Such was (Prophet) Jesus, the son of Mary. That is the truth, concerning what they doubt." Ch 19 verses 23-34
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#99 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:43 AM

From the Essene:

9. And in the same day the angel Gabriel appeared unto Ioseph in a dream and said unto him, Hail, Ioseph, thou that art highly favoured, for the Fatherhood of God is with thee. Blessed art thou among men and blessed be the fruit of thy loins.
10. And as Ioseph thought upon these words he was troubled, and the angel of the Lord said unto him, Fear not, Ioseph, thou Son of David, for thou hast found favour with God, and behold thou shalt beget a child, and thou shalt call his name Iesu-Maria for he shall save his people from their sins.
11. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was written in the prophets saying, Behold a Maiden shall conceive and be with child and shall bring forth a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God Within Us.
12. Then Ioseph being raised from sleep did as the angel had bidden him, and went in unto Mary, his espoused bride, and she conceived in her womb the Holy One.
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#100 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:46 AM

It was the followers of Paul that were first called Christians, I did mispeak. The first followers of Jesus were the Nazorean Essene.

also from the Essene:
3. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn child in a Cave, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, which was in the cave; because there was no room for them in the inn. And behold it was filled with many lights, on either side Twelve, bright as the Sun in his glory.
4. And there were in the same cave an ox, and a horse, and an ***, and a sheep, and beneath the manger was a cat with her little ones, and there were doves also, overhead, and each had its mate after its kind, the male with the female.
5. Thus it came to pass that he was born in the midst of the animals which, through the redemption of man from ignorance and selfishness, he came to redeem from their sufferings, by the manifestation or the sons and the daughters of God.
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