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Jesus (pbuh) in the Koran; Nazarenes, Paul and Christians


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#101 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:57 AM

I have never posted the Essene version of the conception before......I apologize to all the Pauline christians, but please....I did not write it, I'm only posting it in responce to Obmar's request.



Lection 4. 4 - The animals here mentioned are sacred to the Deity in various countries and religions, the Cat and the Dove being specially honored and protected in Egypt (the most ancient centre of civilization, religion, philosophy and true science), as the symbols of Isis, the foreshadower of the "Divine Mother" of Christianity. Egypt (with her Trinity of Father, Mother, Child) gave refuge and sanctuary to the Infant Christ, Who came forth from thence to redeem humanity. The cat is not wilfully a "cruel animal," as falsely alleged by the ignorant, no more than the babe which torments it in ignorance of the pain it gives. Far more cruel are human beings, who torture and destroy millions of innocent creatures to gratify a depraved appetite or to minister to their vanity, or their lust for cruel experiment. The cat truly, as alleged by occultists, both ancient and modern, "the most human of all animals," and it is probable it was for this reason that it appears as the favourite animal of Iesus who was ever the friend of the despised, maligned and neglected although the most loving, gentle and graceful of all animals, rather than the more self assertive dog, especilly as taught by man to hunt and to worry.
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#102 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:02 AM

The essene claim that their version was the written first, and that carries a bit of weight, as I remember reading a letter from Origan(?) or one of the other church fathers, proclaiming it heresy, which was anything that did not fit in with orthodox belief. The Essene counter with the unsubstantiated claim that theirs were written by all the deciples meeting together to get the story down on parchment. Flip a coin, but the essene is what the Gnostics rely on because of it's spirituality.
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#103 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Soulgazer
From the Essene:

9. And in the same day the angel Gabriel appeared unto Ioseph in a dream and said unto him, Hail, Ioseph, thou that art highly favoured, for the Fatherhood of God is with thee. Blessed art thou among men and blessed be the fruit of thy loins.
10. And as Ioseph thought upon these words he was troubled, and the angel of the Lord said unto him, Fear not, Ioseph, thou Son of David, for thou hast found favour with God, and behold thou shalt beget a child, and thou shalt call his name Iesu-Maria for he shall save his people from their sins.
11. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was written in the prophets saying, Behold a Maiden shall conceive and be with child and shall bring forth a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God Within Us.
12. Then Ioseph being raised from sleep did as the angel had bidden him, and went in unto Mary, his espoused bride, and she conceived in her womb the Holy One.




So according to Essence, Iesu-Maria is related to Ioseph, Son of David by Blood.

Then Ioseph being raised from sleep did as the angel had bidden him, and went in unto Mary, his espoused bride, and she conceived in her womb the Holy One.


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#104 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:42 AM

Yes. In the coptic, there are two attempts to trace the ancestry of Joseph. One at least, is inaccurate. Some denominations say that it is really the ancestry of Mary, but I personally feel they are just whistling in the dark, as I have in the past read articles tracing Mary thru a different house, as she was cousins with Elizabeth.
Jesu-Mari is the essene for Jesus, a name apparently as common then as william is today. They also use the name Yashua.

I have also heard through a Jewish friend, that an espousal was a trial period of time when a couple would live together. They were on their honor not to have sex, but if the living arangement was not working out, the dowery(usually the house) would be returned and the wedding called off with no dishonor. I have not recieved a second verification to that.
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#105 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 05:04 AM

What do you believe in?

Jesu-Mari is the essene for Jesus, a name apparently as common then as william is today. They also use the name Yashua.



A very special person right from the start would not get just get an apperently so common name......

;)
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#106 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 05:55 AM

Originally posted by obmar
What do you believe in?



A very special person right from the start would not get just get an apperently so common name......

;)



OOOooooooooo a theological argument? LOL.

Well, Jesus was supposed to be humble, so why not a humble name?



__________
6. If you say, "I'm a Jew," no one will be disturbed by it. It is the same if you say "I'm a Roman, a Greek, a barbarian, a slave, a freed man, a Christian." If you say, "I'm a Gnostic," however, you create all kinds of opposition. May I be worthy of such a name; may I receive a name which the followers of darkness can't stand to even hear.
___________
^ I was thinking of using this verse for my signature, what do you think?
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#107 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:27 AM

I was just kidding.

:D
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#108 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:31 AM

But what do you think of that verse for a tag line?
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#109 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 12:19 PM

I think I lost you there


On another note...

And they all left him.....

"At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:55-56)"

"Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." Then everyone deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 14:49-50)"

As we can see, they "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. They fled because they feared for their lives. The only POSSIBLE one that might have saw the crucifixion was Peter, because he followed Jesus and later disowned him 3 times when he was confronted by the people on whether or not he was with him:

Matthew 26

33 Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will."
34 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
35 But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.

........

Matthew 26

74 Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!"
75 Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.
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#110 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:44 PM

Originally posted by obmar
I think I lost you there


On another note...

And they all left him.....

"At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:55-56)"

"Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." Then everyone deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 14:49-50)"

As we can see, they "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. They fled because they feared for their lives. The only POSSIBLE one that might have saw the crucifixion was Peter, because he followed Jesus and later disowned him 3 times when he was confronted by the people on whether or not he was with him:

Matthew 26

33 Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will."
34 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
35 But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.

........

Matthew 26

74 Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!"
75 Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.



I think some of them came back for the trial, and John was there at the cross when He died, along with Mary Magdelene, and His mother Mary.
Nicodemus, one of the Sanhedren also converted to follow Jesus, and he must have given the account of what happened in front of Pilot.
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#111 obmar

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:53 PM

"I don't know the man!"

The man


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#112 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:33 PM

Peter regretted his cowardice, but Jesus knew way ahead of time. Jesus did not associate with the perfect, but with the imperfect in order to perfect it.
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#113 Soulgazer

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:39 PM

"While Jesus was speaking to me, a group of people, led by several priests, ran up to us. They were carrying large stones and shouting angrily. I thought that they were going to throw the stones at us and kill us, but Jesus said to me,
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#114 DirtyHarry

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:39 PM

Virgin Mary in Clearwater, FL Photo Gallery = =They had a "Mother Mary" in Clearwater Florida as well. A kid took his sling shot and broke the panes that had the 'head'on it so it is not there anymore, as far as I know. But, here is the posting and you can see for yourself...

http://www.startime....ary/gallery.htm
- - - - -
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#115 obmar

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Soulgazer
Peter regretted his cowardice, but Jesus knew way ahead of time. Jesus did not associate with the perfect, but with the imperfect in order to perfect it.



If in today's society, the staff did that to the ceo.....

then it would be in minimum a sacking.

:rolleyes:
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#116 Soulgazer

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:12 AM

Originally posted by obmar
If in today's society, the staff did that to the ceo.....

then it would be in minimum a sacking.

:rolleyes:



LOL you are right there!!!!!

But when the CEO in question knows everything that's going to happen years in advance..........;)

Peter straightened up, and became a martyr himself later.....I guess knowing how he let Him down the first time may have helped later.
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#117 obmar

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:38 AM

and if it is a husband that say that to his wife, no matter how critical the situation is....

most likely the husband willl not get to share a bed with the wife again, ever.

:D

but the issue is not about Peter....

"At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:55-56)"

"Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." Then everyone deserted him and fled. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 14:49-50)"

As we can see, they "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. They fled because they feared for their lives. The only POSSIBLE one that might have saw the crucifixion was Peter, because he followed Jesus and later disowned him 3 times when he was confronted by the people on whether or not he was with him:

Matthew 26


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#118 obmar

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:46 AM

I want you to look closely at the language,
the wordings used, and feel
if it a human, teacher, apostle and messenger

or something else....

"Am I
leading a rebellion,

that you have come out
with swords and clubs
to capture me?

Every day
I sat
in the temple courts
teaching,
and you did not
arrest me.

But this has all taken place
that the writings
of the prophets
might be fulfilled."

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#119 Soulgazer

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 01:14 AM

Originally posted by obmar
I want you to look closely at the language,
the wordings used, and feel
if it a human, teacher, apostle and messenger

or something else....

"Am I
leading a rebellion,

that you have come out
with swords and clubs
to capture me?

Every day
I sat
in the temple courts
teaching,
and you did not
arrest me.

But this has all taken place
that the writings
of the prophets
might be fulfilled."




Remember that the people had been waiting for the Messiah (the one prophet Allah would anoint with the spirit of the Son of Man)

All the other prophets had spoken of this one special annointed one. From the book of enoch to the book of Danial and all the other prophesies, each prophet had promised this one special man.
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#120 Soulgazer

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 02:44 PM

As we can see, they "all fled" and "deserted" Jesus. They fled because they feared for their lives. The only POSSIBLE one that might have saw the crucifixion was Peter, because he followed Jesus and later disowned him 3 times when he was confronted by the people on whether or not he was with him:



Mary Magdelene(Not Mary the mother) was the there the whole time. Whether a womans courage is greater than a man's for a loved one, or she simply was not noticed, God alone knows.

She was the last to leave the cross, the first to visit his grave, and the first He visited on His ressurection.
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