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#1 Adrian

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 10:05 AM

Moderation of this forum.

It seems to me that there are many misunderstandings about what is going on here, so I post this sticky thread, and try to make some structure in the debate about moderation now.

There are 4 moderators for the moment.
- Adrian - Denmark
- Plsek - USA
- VikingAmerican - USA (but born in Norway)
- Zhurnalist - Portugal

Moderators are not employed by Pravda, but are just posters (members) as everybody else, but just with some extra tools, that enable us to make some editing and deleting of posts , banning users, moving, merging and splitting threads.

If I edit a post, I intend to write a little note inside the edited post, and send a PM or mail to the poster I edited. Nothing will be posted in here about it.

If people are banned, I post a note with the reason inside here.

The forum allow a lot, but threats and severe harassment can not be tolerated. It is impossible to form some precise rules, so it's up to the posters to use their common sense and behave civilized.
There are freedom of speach here, but not infinite. If one poster have the total and unlimited free speach, it can drive away lots of other posters, and then it is their free speach that is inhibited.
Absolute free speach for everyone is utopic.


Moderators do also
1) Make peace negotiang with posters, mostly backstage.
2) Helping with login problems.
3) Helping with avatar problems.


*** List of banned posters ***

- LIBDETH have posted death threats against another poster, so I negotiated a lot with him, for making him to take his words back. Banned by Adrian.

- GIJOE is banned because of deaththread too. Banned by Adrian.

- BUSHTAPO (= MachineryMan = Workingclass = Polnikov = SlavNationalist = Moron = Gestapo) is finally banned also, after EXCESSIVE NEGOTIANTIONS and he still couldn-t accept to act normal. Banned by Adrian. (Ban continued on 6/5/2003 as the alleged "Forklift" was being put to use again - as he just can't resist temptation - hence banned a final time - VA)

- Sergio1 (=Moses = cutiepie123 = Rusky ) is finally banned too, after same procedure as bushtapo. Banned by Adrian.

- Nathan banned for exciesive hate. http://engforum.prav...68661#post68661 Banned by Adrian.

- Shaiten banned for exciesive hate. Posts removed too. Banned by Adrian.

- American Marine banned for sexual perversion (pedophilia). Banned by Plsek.

- Goatse banned for extreme sexual pervesion. Some posts removed. Banned by Plsek.

- Daduron banned for very offensive postings. Banned by Adrian.

- Sarandos banned for very offensive posting and harrassment (on and off the board). Banned by Plsek (and supported by Adrian and VikingAmerican)

- Oracle banned for very offensive posting. Banned by VikingAmerican

- Ctulthu banned for very offensive posting. Banned by VikingAmerican

- RRBum banned for very offensive posting. Banned by Adrian

- latimervanquest - Banned for efforts at trying to start divisiveness at Pravda's forum (at the direction of RRBum) and evidence emailed to Administrators of this forum - Banned by VikingAmerican

- XXX (and any other RRBum member ID) - He continues to be banned from this forum (even though he threatened to ban the Pravda moderators member ID's at his forum) - Ban continuation by VikingAmerican

- American guy - banned for offensive posting. His only contribution was to harass people in here. - Banned by Adrian

- Indrid Cole - Banned due to his constant harrassment of other members and one moderator in particular (I know I'll take heat for this one, but I gave him fair warning.... and if I get banned for it, so be it) - by vikingamerican
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#2 Adrian

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 11:59 AM

One of the next days I'll try to make more clear what is acceptable and what is not in here.
I'll also correct the errors in above posting.
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#3 Soddem

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:08 PM

good post so here is my two cents worth.

first regarding banned posters who issue death threats. FAIR ENOUGH, you should also have informed the police.

other reasons I would feel require banning are giving out personal details of posters, attempting to hack posters e.t.c

anything else is power tripping :D , as i said many a time sergio who i hate, and bushtapo who i love, should BOTH be just left to play there silly games. however much they annoyed people

You have to admit, their posts always had several replies so they were fullfilling some function. The sandpit idea reminds me just tooo much of nursery school and does not befit the news forum of one of Russias national papers

ok maybe have a swear word auto bot or somthing, but then we will get into the problems with whats a swear word in one country is not in another, you know what I mean.

spammers soon get bored, can be put on ignore, and people do get tired of cloning :) speaking of which, still awaiting results of negotiations !

keep up the good work :cool:
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#4 Soddem

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:08 PM

p.s forgot, editing posts or polls is absolutely sacrilidge in my books :)
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#5 Guest__*

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:17 PM

I have a suggestion for the posters here. You're burning Adrian out by all the complaints. Hell, I don't even see him post opinions anymore - too busy playing classroom monitor I suppose? We could all do with a little self-moderation and some common sense. Remember, in the heat of the debate, insults will happen. Sometimes rather crude insults. But hey, we all have options on how to deal with it. There is the "ignore" function, or you can continue the debate. Don't take things personally and remember to wear your flaksuit when posting :)

I think we all can agree that what we like the most about the forum is the free speech here. So let's do what we need to do to protect this. Free speech means that at some point someone will piss you off, it's up to you on how you deal with it. Personally, I think the only things that need reporting is if someone posts personal information regarding another poster. That is crossing the "line" for me, other than that, nothing on this board has really bothered me.

Why is that?
:D :D :D
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#6 Guest__*

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:22 PM

I too spent some of my workday at the old forum trying to stem the tide. It was for naught after a while.

I also wrote via email to those who thought I was to blame regarding deletions and such. It never did me any good as I was not believed. Also, anyone could accuse me of deletions and Dmitry didn't know what was the truth. I didn't have any way to control the forum except to delete Personal attacks against me. I left all of the threads and posts up that even bordered on the insane and was just deleting the personal attacks after a point becuase I couldn't keep up with it.

You have started with an excellent set of controls, so it should be far easier for you. You should also see if Pravda will compensate you for some of the time you are spending here as it will take more than 3 moderators to keep up with this place.

I will do what I can from time to time. I think your point of posting a description of what you delete is a good idea, however, this may get cumbersome over time. I suggest that we all get with Dmitry soon as to what he thinks would be best. I find this solution of yours to be bending over backwards to appear impartial to be honest. It may work, it may not. I have a feeling that you will still have your detractors. Only time will tell.

Thanks for taking up the task.

At the old forum, that task was all but impossible.
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#7 nitemere

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:54 PM

this almost sounded like Hogunaut in the old forum the reason why he posted off subject remarks about me in this new PRAVDA forum and the old PRAVDA forum. sure being a moderator has the responsibilities but when a moderator agree with the bully that makes off subject remarks about a persons mental attitude which is caused in my case by the stress of driving a semi-truck and being stalked by people i personally named in these PRAVDA forums which i also tried to get federal assistance to press charges against these perps but of course i'm glad adrian doesn't drive truck for i living because he would probably make a 4 inch pancake out of a suv full of screaming children.

now i quit reading hogmans posts but i did read a few i found he attacked other peoples beliefs like he attack me in the personal fashion because of being BORED at work so i hope adrian doesn't use the same principals of being bored in his judgments on this forum.

i grew up hating bullies because i was also abused by bullies who got away with murder literally and when i'm facing a threat i react in the same manor. so what i write about reflects the nature behind these attacks and what these monsters personally told me. just like when i accuse the president of the united states of america george w.{lies and red-rick}B U S H....JR. as being part of the illegal gang that took over this country called THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and created their personal mild-stone of SEPTEMBER 11,2001 which took out the 16 acre sight of the world trade center and a part of the pentagon which i personally did business in because these people still stalking me and bully me told me this will be their personal mild-stone that they are in-control of united states of america of course hogman's reply to me would be a delusional attack on the president of the united states george w.{lies and red-rick}B U S H...JR. but i personally know better because of the school of hard knocks these people stalking me with several kinds of different forces.

so here i am posting in a russian forum which RUSSIA was hurt in so many ways buy this bully united states government WHICH now is run by a group of thugs who have so many illegal dealings that they need 2 united states presidents clinton and bush....jr. to cover-up their crimes while they proceeded with the dismantling this country THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA piece by piece by corrupting the very foundation that the united states was founded on. so i personally know why some posters like Hogman don't like me posting in the way i am.

i also feel the post of moderator should not agree with the bullies of this russian pravda forum about the mental attitude of a poster because that also is a crime in progress.

now adrain i hope i didn't kick you around to much but this is just some observations i made.
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#8 Adrian

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Plsek
Hell, I don't even see him post opinions anymore - too busy playing classroom monitor I suppose?



Thanks Plsek.
This tells a lot I guess

I guess there is aboput 5 normal postings, and 10 nervous reactions that ended in silly jokes, and rest of some hundret postings are just...bwaaaa...

The public handling of how different posters were handled can be seen too, but not the big backstage work.
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#9 HABIB

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 01:07 PM

Adrian made mention of trying to talk to nitemere being a waste of time, just read nites latest post.

Although I have him on ignore, I check one of his posts now and then. His message is disjointed at best.

I dont have any problems with the moderation of the forum. Those that do have gone so far beyond decent posting as to be deserving of the ban also.

My ignore list now has 4 or 5 names on it. That is a big help.
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#10 Gandu

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 01:12 PM

okay no death threats anything else goes, I can handle that.

Oh can I get 3 other friends and take over the forum? It would not be spamming since there would be others who participate in it, except no one else would really care about the subject matter. We would also make sure we give the rednecks enough hard time that they will find it much easier to move to a more easier to control forum.
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#11 nitemere

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 01:17 PM

Originally posted by HABIB
Adrian made mention of trying to talk to nitemere being a waste of time, just read nites latest post.

My ignore list now has 4 or 5 names on it. That is a big help.



well as being a bully yourself HABIB i personally glad you don't answer my comments with off subject remarks any more but my statements above still stand because of the extream crimes these stalkers have commited in this so called country call the united states of america's borders and in this global community. so thank you for sounding a little positive even if you do doubt the truths i personally mentioned.
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#12 nitemere

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Gandu
okay no death threats anything else goes, I can handle that.



Gandu there also a statement like this "limits of responsibilities" that also is included in adrain's remarks because that is what being a moderator is. so well your wrong Gandu when you say anything goes.
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#13 HABIB

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 01:29 PM

if the rest of us leave, you of the leftist, or liberal, or communist, or whatever persuasion would start in on each other. That would be too much to take.

Get over yourself, you are not nearly as important as you think. No one here is any more than a contributor to this forum.
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#14 Odd

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 02:01 PM

Dear Adrian/Moderator,

First a few comments on your rather incoherent statement.

"I was granted moderator status automatically"

Anyone notice how stupid that statement looks?

"..to make this forum a better place to be."

Says who? Posters? Which posters? Ever considered the possibility that the forum would turn worse by interfering?
Your definition of what's 'better' is the same as that of PosterX?

"737 current VERY DIFFERENT members pleased.."

Don't fool yourself, no way you'll know the preferences of most posters.
The opinions you'll know are those of the suckers, whining and crying for their own petty agendas.

"it have given me a new view on peoples minds, "

Well, if you're so blatantly naive and unknowing of human nature it certainly isn't a merit for the task you claim to master.

"2 guys with very different views political, is among the most fair guys in here"

LOL, don't tell us you're prejudiced towards dissenting posters.
Regards to the two whiners ;)

"I intend only to defend my acts,"

Fine. What about actions taken by other moderators/admin.?
You'll explain/defend those too?

"Who I have never banned, edited, or even sended a PM for peace-negotiation is: RRBum; Atossa; USC; AG"

Does that mean that all the rest of us have been subject to your moderation?
I thought you were into logic, albeit digital logic. ;)

"I get 10-20 moderation requests every day"

Holy shite! Has it already sunk so low? Make the whiners' monikers public, that's a democratic way to stifle the cry-babies. Alternatively, since only a few of all posters pushes the complaint button, ban without further ado the obnoxious suckers. ;)

"Any special skills is needed to be moderator?"

Nope, it doesn't look so by the merits you yourself admit to lack.
Correction, one essential skill is to appease the loudmouths.

"I will also ERASE posting to this thread"

Of course you will, can't have any dissident stuff in here! ;)


Suggestions:

 All complaints from whiners be made public. Common practice in
civilized societies.

 All actions taken towards posters (banning, editing, communication) also to be accessible by all. Control of power, not unheard of in free North.

 Banning should only be exercised against true spammers, ie posters willfully and maliciously distorting the screen format thereby denying readers rightful access.

 Educate the cry-babies. No one is under ANY obligation to read and/or react in a very childish and immature way to lies, threats, abuse and not least BLASPHEMOUS perversion.

 Most importantly, for effing sake's get the forum's hiearchy and
relevant descriptions to the different forums in order. Make posters post in forums by content. I.E. religious topics should be restricted to the 'Religion' forum etc.

Regards
Odd

EDIT: Fixed quotes
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#15 Agnostic

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 02:07 PM

Great job Adrian, Vike and Zhurnalist.
I think you are bending over backwards trying to be fair to posters.
Dont worry about the whiners.
Good luck and to hell with those who think different.
My personal opinion, of course.
:D ;) :P
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#16 Missouri Mule

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 02:10 PM

Adrian: If I may make a personal observation, you are experienced what I often felt when I headed up a medium sized government office. It is an impossibility to please everyone all of the time. There will always be malcontents and some people will never be happy even if you hung them with a new rope.

I think you have done a very commendable job which I very much appreciate and I would like to think you should have some compensation for your services. Something that "FreeRepublic" has done for a long time is to have quarterly fund raising to pay the freight. They always manage to reach their goals of about $70,000 per quarter. Of course they have about 90,000 readers and contributors. Perhaps we could do something similar here. BTW, they have long banned people who post unacceptable comments. Some people simply cannot use good common sense. There is no reasoning with them.

I spend much more time here than any other forum. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others who may or may not agree with me and I enjoy the argumentation. It sharpens one's views. As hard as it may be to believe, I am occasionally wrong and learn from others with opposing views.

Keep up the good work. This forum here is valuable and is a window into the thinking of others not in our circle of friends and acquaintances. As I used to tell my wife each day on the day to work, "Don't let the bastards get to you."

One final observation. The old forum was like our "Old West." It often got entirely out of hand. There was no way to curb the excesses and many valuable contributors have left as a result. I see that we no longer hear from Platykitten, Universobeing and Cascade. I seldom agreed with them but I do miss them.

Hang in there. You are appreciated.
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#17 Soddem

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:15 PM

swine, the reason you hang in here so much is that you like us so much, so stop whining and moaning to admin everytime I add some artistic flair to your avatars :D
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#18 Guest_moses_*

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:17 PM

UN-BAN EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY ARE GUILTY OF NOTHING.
YOU HAVE CONVICTED PEOPLE ON YOUR OWN VALUES AND NOTHING ELSE.
AS FAR AS I 'M CONCERNED YOU ARE TOO HASTY BANNING PEOPLE.
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#19 Adrian

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Odd

"I was granted moderator status automatically"
Anyone notice how stupid that statement looks?
I informed Dmitry about my english skills, and it was okay for him. It migth not be correct written, but don't you understand what I mean with it?


"..to make this forum a better place to be."
Says who? Posters? Which posters? Ever considered the possibility that the forum would turn worse by interfering?
Your definition of what's 'better' is the same as that of PosterX?
Pravda have decided that there should be moderators in here, and they decided that I should be one of them. I asume that they took that decison, because they think it would be better this way.


"737 current VERY DIFFERENT members pleased.."
Don't fool yourself, no way you'll know the preferences of most posters.
I have never claimed to know that either. Why do you put such idea up yourself that I have said such, for then argumenting against your own words:confused:


The opinions you'll know are those of the suckers, whining and crying for their own petty agendas.
I know your opinion too now. Which of the 3 classes that you mention yourself, are you a part of?


"it have given me a new view on peoples minds, "
Well, if you're so blatantly naive and unknowing of human nature it certainly isn't a merit for the task you claim to master.
I am not so blatanly naive anymore. I WAS. As written before, I have learned a lot now.


"I intend only to defend my acts,"
Fine. What about actions taken by other moderators/admin.?
You'll explain/defend those too?
What nonsense is that? How can I speak on their behalf?
I saw that nitemere shares your opinion below. Do you explain or defend his ponts too, just because you have something in common? Sorry Odd, but I find your question extremely strange.




"Who I have never banned, edited, or even sended a PM for peace-negotiation is: RRBum; Atossa; USC; AG"
Does that mean that all the rest of us have been subject to your moderation?
I thought you were into logic, albeit digital logic. ;)
If I say "I have not scratched my nose", will you then think that I have scratched my ***, ear and leg? If mentioning what I have not done, it does not mean that I have done everything else.


"Any special skills is needed to be moderator?"
Nope, it doesn't look so by the merits you yourself admit to lack.
Yes Odd. I am pleased that you payed attention to self-critisism and awareness of own limitations, including that I openly admit my faults. It migth be one of the big advantages in fact, 'cause it enables me to improve those skills when I admit that they are far from perfect now. Have you any weak sides you wanna admit, not to this board, but to yourself? Consider it, cause it can make you grow as a person.


Correction, one essential skill is to appease the loudmouths.
Wrong Odd. 90% of the effort happens backstage. Just because you can not see it, it does not mean that it does not happen.


"I will also ERASE posting to this thread"
Of course you will, can't have any dissident stuff in here! ;)
Sorry to see that the quality of your quotings are decreasing. If you played a fair game and quoted correctly, you would also have taken the part where I explained the reason for why I intend to erase with you in the quote.
Can it really be, that you didn't understood why I wrote that I intend to erase, or is it rather that you have become very bitter, for a for me unknown reason, hence take out a short sentence, and comment it, as if it meant something completely else?
Why have you become bitter odd?



Suggestions:
Some of your sufggestions was remarkable constructive. Was a pleasent surprise to me.


Should we continue the discussion here Odd?
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#20 Kraig

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:36 PM

I understand you Adrian, don't worry.

It's hard to be a moderator and please everyone. It's impossible as ImperalistSwine said.

If someone should be a moderator you are one of the most fair minded to do the job.

I guess the problem is that people enjoyed to spit it out the way it was in the other forum. However if Dmitry wants moderators...I think it's not asking too much to behave a little.

If I could suggest you something, nobody should know some of us are moderators. This will raise that kind of discussion. The moderator is someone that will always be criticized. Since we already know it, keep justifying the reason of the banning as you are doing already.

Thank you.
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