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Jesus and the Law of Moses


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#21 Guest__*

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 10:57 AM

Gench: "<<< Originally posted by Gench : There is something contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils and / or realities of life without the help of comfortable myths and make believe, or a mythical 'Mr Put it Right' to fall back on. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and invention, and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed >>>


This is precisely what the wickoes do, calling their myth truth, and calling truth myth.

That's why I consider wickoes contemptible.
.
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#22 Guest_CaptainAmerica_*

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 02:27 PM

You have hit the nail on the head Gench.

Watch out Armagaddon, I am a Gnostic. I am no more Wiccan than they are Satanists. As a Gnostic, I was not blessed with a sense of irrationality. I am not afforded the luxury of being able to convince myself in myths and legends, or as Gench put's it, "comfortable myths and make believe, or a mythical 'Mr Put it Right' to fall back on."

Well, I include that to mean spells, circles, crosses, rabbit's feet, talismans, candles, etc...... I don't swallow any of that nonsense.

It's lonesome being a Gnostic. Everything is so black and white. Logical. How I long to see through rose colored glasses like the dreamers do. (Well, in beasts case, it's more like a kalidascope.)
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#23 Guest__*

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 03:06 PM

The first statement is false: "We cannot know the Tao itself"
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#24 LarryD

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 05:20 PM

The Wicca is in its essence nothing but the systematic pursuit and use of knowledge, and knowledge is in its
essence good. To lose trust in knowledge is to lose trust in the best what makes people what they are..

Gench,

How do you justify Wicca's existence? How does Wicca improve Humanity---

Elimination of vices in all forms..
Improvement of efficiency of all governments. local councils etc
Reducing Pollution world wide
Effective processing and utilisation of Planetary resources
Ability of Planet to rapidly regenerate the Earth's Atmosphere in the unlikely event that the relative percentages-proportions of all the atmospheric constituent gases [that support human life, plant life etc] are modified to resemble the gaseous mix around URANUS, for example
etc so many more
How does Wicca help achieve this?
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#25 Reven

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 02:39 AM

Obedience to these laws made Abraham the father of the faithful:

Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

David loved the law and constantly meditated on the law:
Psalms 119:97 "O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day."

He said that righteousness is defined by the commandments: Psalms 119:172, "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness."

The apostle Paul called the law holy, just and good:
Romans 7:12, 14, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good....the law is spiritual." Furthermore, he showed that love is the fulfilling of the law: Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not murder, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
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#26 Reven

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 03:39 AM

Most professing Christians reject the Law, which is holy, just and good (Romans 7:12).

However, the very mark, or sign, of true believers in the last days is that they keep God's Law:


To fully strive for this sole objective is noble and vise .


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#27 Guest__*

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 04:27 AM

That they accept God's law.
And be willing to execute it.
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#28 Reven

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 04:55 AM

'beast'

Executioners is allready at work as far as I can diagnostic it.
See the last report under this url :

http://pub64.ezboard...topicID=2.topic

--

I'we begun to assemble the details of the various Laws. Can you go here for a while ,and rise some coments in this thread after the look ?

http://pub64.ezboard...topicID=2.topic


Have fine evenin g (it's early afternoon 13 May here).


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#29 Gench

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:08 AM

LarryD writes -----

Qoute from Larry ->

Gench,

'How do you justify Wicca's existence? How does Wicca improve Humanity-'-

The Old Gench leans over, scratches his left buttock eases back into his chair and types ---

Well you haven't answered my two questions but that's ok.

How do I justify the existence of The Wicca? I don't. I don't need to. It exists because it emerged to both fill a need and also to take advantage of initially limited knowledge about natural lore in antiquity and in communicating this to others it became a valued part of life. It is all about the search for knowledge and the use of such knowledge. In the past all sorts of bizarre things were done because they either worked or because they seemed to work. As knowledge grew so the rites and practices have evolved.

As regards improving Humanity - what is Humanity if not a collective for people? And for that matter what is 'Improve'? If by 'Improve' you mean to change the moral values of a population to something closer to your own, then what right does anyone have to do so? Offer a choice, make known other ethics and morality, but to feel a compunction to actively 'Improve' by imposition? Wrong thinking. But what a Wiccan does seek to do is to set a good example by the way he lives and in his relationship with others.

Now let's look at your list ----

Elimination of vices in all forms.. Firstly what is vice? Is my list of vices the same as yours? I rather doubt it. However I do believe that there is a absolute vice and that is anything that injures a child, a person of limited or impaired mental capacity, the old, the vulnerable, or the infirm.

But to simply set out to eliminate a set of actions that you and maybe a group of like minded people consider to be vices is another thing altogether. Take prostitution for example. Unsavoury maybe, but a vice? I think not.


Improvement of efficiency of all governments. local councils etc. Why? In any case there's a whole mess of 'Governments for whom an increase in efficiency is the last thing that would help anyone 'cept a limited few with vested interests. But that question signifies that you've missed a very important point.

The Wicca is not some group that seeks new 'members'. No political party, no religion seeking converts in fact we deliberately don't go looking for converts.

The Wicca is about life and the multiverse, not about politics.

The Old Religion is there for those who realising that the Abrehamic religions are fundamentally unsound.
A person must seek out The Wicca and be prepared to find that when they become really involved and learned it will be something very different from what they might have imagined based on common misconceptions.

Reducing Pollution world wide and Effective processing and utilisation of Planetary resources? It is a fact that although reduction in pollution world wide is something that we all should be concerned in achieving some pollution is inevitable. All Pagans and Wiccans promote 'eco-friendly' viewpoints wherever practical.
As I know from first hand experience it is quite amazing what can be achieved by simply asking a question or making a suggestion within a discussion or meeting.
There are those people who go to lengths that I do not feel comfortable with such as most cases of direct action. Others prance around in silly costumes and just devalue an important issue, but the will is there.

Larry then ends his list with this ->

'Ability of Planet to rapidly regenerate the Earth's Atmosphere in the unlikely event that the relative percentages-proportions of all the atmospheric constituent gases [that support human life, plant life etc] are modified to resemble the gaseous mix around URANUS, for example
etc so many more
How does Wicca help achieve this?'

Old Gench is taken aback.

Shocked even.

He can't believe what he's just read!

He reads it again and decides there can be only one possible answer.

He writes ---

'Kindly leave my anus out of this.'
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#30 LarryD

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 05:45 PM

Gench,


Larry then ends his list with this ->

'Ability of Planet to rapidly regenerate the Earth's Atmosphere in the unlikely event that the relative
percentages-proportions of all the atmospheric constituent gases [that support human life, plant life etc]
are modified to resemble the gaseous mix around URANUS, for example
etc so many more
How does Wicca help achieve this?'

Old Gench is taken aback.

Shocked even.

He can't believe what he's just read!

He reads it again and decides there can be only one possible answer.

He writes ---

Surely my last question was a harmless valid one-judging from the views we have exchanged so far. You see what should have been gleaned from Th Word as the basis has been unavailable to those who claim to preach the Gospel and I was merely highlighting a few issues that we mistaekely term Christian religion--as you can see, things are somewhat more than just religion.
I am taken aback by the expression of shock from your end. Surely, you are aware that our "air" is a maintained for us--unlike the other Planets.
That source maintaining the air in its gradient sections is what some mistakenly classify as that religion "quantity"--as you can see---somewhat misconstrued by those who have not preached the Word in the scriptures, properly.

I hope you understand, I mean the Earth will cast a shadow on that smaller celestial body when the three bodies exhibit rectilinear axial concurrency this Thursday in spatial galactic visible and tangible_controllable celestial dimensions. A very simple event-again under space_xyz_^*_t...N control in scripture.
All in the Bible of air-ensconced oxygen.
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#31 Gench

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:40 PM

Larry, if you really want to loose sleep over something then look into the observable reduction in the earths magnetic field and contemplate the results of the absence of substantial protection from the suns emitted charged particles.

Present estimates show that within 1 000 years the Earth's magnetic field will have collapsed.

As regards the Oxygen cycle on the earth, it's not mystical. it's plain and simple. Same with Oxygen. Most life on our rock just happens to make use of the oxygen / carbon cycle. There are other cycles that could (and in the abyss do) result in life.

No mystery, no 'proof of god', just plain 'ol nature and life cropping up wherever it will.

(I doubt very much that any gasses that may be in the proximity of my anus have such a capability though.)
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#32 Guest_CaptainAmerica_*

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:45 PM

Gench, please don't encourage him.
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#33 Gench

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:52 PM

I guess you're right.

I should know better than feed trolls!
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#34 LarryD

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 01:59 AM

Gench writes:

Larry, if you really want to loose sleep over something then look into the observable reduction in the earths
magnetic field and contemplate the results of the absence of substantial protection from the suns emitted charged
particles.

Present estimates show that within 1 000 years the Earth's magnetic field will have collapsed.

As regards the Oxygen cycle on the earth, it's not mystical. it's plain and simple. Same with Oxygen. Most life on
our rock just happens to make use of the oxygen / carbon cycle. There are other cycles that could (and in the
abyss do) result in life.
------------------------------------

But you have hit the nail right on the head. There is nothing mystical about the chemical balance in our fluidic atmosphere and the overall photosynthesis reactions etc THAT IS JUST WHAT I WAS DRIVING HOME.

CHRIST-GOD is not a mystery or some mythical spirit. The fact that a Spirit cannot be seen in our 3-d or 4-d reference frame does not make it mythical. CHRIST EXISTED BEFORE THE PLANET WAS completed---THAT DOES NOT mean he cannot materialise and have a glass of orange juice or fish and chips with you or a meal of good curry at the corner restaurant. :cool:
The demystification process is very important because any negative effects of the electromagnetic issue you raised will be reversed
by Spirit based electro-mag-reactions by Christ-God.

You seem worried about Christ-God. I mean, He who provides a Planet , a Sun and owns Galaxies of Stars should not be a source of mystery or worry to someone living in the Galaxy owned by CHRIST-GOD.

Gench, I am curious to know what suspicions you have regarding Christ-God-- many preachers have done a poor job and it is possible you may have received erroneous impressions about Christ-God from a "lost" pastor.
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#35 Reven

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:09 AM

Consider the Law, because all is Law.
You shall not seek what is not of the Law,
such exists only in the illusions of your senses.
Wisdom has come to all His children,
a few knows how to open the doors.

The Elders
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#36 Reven

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 06:43 AM

In Matthew
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#37 Reven

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 06:49 AM

Capital punishments for :


1. 'Gen 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.'

2. Exod 20:13 Thou shalt not murder. (murderers must be put to death)

3. 'Exod 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.'

4. 'Exod 21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.'

5. 'Exod 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.'

6. 'Exod 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.'

7. 'Exod 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.'

8. 'Exod 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.'

9. 'Exod 21:22-25 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.'

10. 'Exod 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.'

11. Exod 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

12. Exod 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

13. 'Exod 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. '

14. 'Exod 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.'

15. 'Exod 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.'

16. 'Lev. 20:2 - Again, thou shalt say to the children of Isreal, Whosoever he be of the children of Isreal, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones'

17. 'Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.'

18. Lev. 20:9 - For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath curesed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him (Lev. 20:9).

19. 'Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.'

20. Lev. 20:11 - And the man that lieth with his father
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#38 Reven

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 06:51 AM

32. 'Deut 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.'

33. 'Num 14:35 I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.'

34. 'Num 15:30-31 - The penalty for sin, which is the breaking (transgression) of Yahweh's Laws, is death. Ex 21:36 & Num 15:30 - But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.Num 15:31 - Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him. '

35. 'Num 15:32-36 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.'

36. 'Num 26:65 For the LORD had said of them, They shall surely die in the wilderness. And there was not left a man of them, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.'

37. 'Num 35:16-18 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.'

38. 'Num 35:20-21 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.'

39. 'Num 35:31 - Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.'

40. 'Num 35:33 - So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.'

41. 'Deut 13:6-10 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.'

42. 'Deut 17:2-5 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.'

43. 'Deut 17:8-12 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose; And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment: And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee: According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left. And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto t'

44. 'Deut. 19:11-13 - But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against him and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of the cities, then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall he put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go ell with you. '

45. 'Deut 19:16-19 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.'

46. 'Deut 19:18-21 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand,'

47. 'Deut 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.'

48. 'Deut 22:20-25 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with he'

49. 'Deut 24:7 If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.'

50. 'Deut. 24:16 -The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.'

51. 'Matt 5:21,22 - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:'

52. 'Matt.15:3-6 - But He answered and said to them,
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#39 Reven

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Posted 26 May 2003 - 02:14 AM

Acts 16:11-15
Jn 15:26 -16:4


Jesus said to his diciples "From the Father, I will send you the Spirit of truth. When this Helper has come from the Father, he will be my witness, and you too, will be my witness for you have been with me from the begining."

"I tell you all this to keep you from stumbling and falling away. They will put you out to the Jewish communities. Still more, the hour is coming when anyone who kills you will claim to be serving God; they will do this because they have not known the Father or me.
I tell you all these things now so that when the time comes you may remember that I told you "
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#40 Reven_1

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 05:03 AM

When Jesus was asked,

"What must I do to inherit eternal life?",

he replied:

"You know the Commandments, keep these and you will live."

For now, just notice that Jesus attests to the importance of the Ten Commandments.
This is why thrue Christians still accept them.


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