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Which country is better than the United States?


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#21 Mae

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 07:48 AM

Originally posted by aLibertarian
simple question.
c'mon, all you anti-american, anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, anti-semitic disinformation spreaders, you gotta have at least one country that is better than the United States.

please give me the name of the country, and why you think it is better than the United States of America. i'll be the first to admit there is room for improvement here, but we are at least a couple steps ahead of everyone else.

c'mon, bring it on.

aLibertarian :cool:



Just to name a few:

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, Holland....

The list goes on an on
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#22 Tokyoman

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 02:12 PM

G&D and YankeeDan,
It is ungrateful people such as yourselves that give the United States a bad name. Your willingness to ignore what other countries, no matter how small, do for the US, is the reason the respect the US deserves is crumpling into a heap.

http://www.centcom.m...ition/joint.htm
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#23 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 02:52 PM

dvblwdwg, i can't argue with you at all.

God-n-Country, thanks for the post.
i am an atheist, but ill five you a halelujah for that one. and a solemn amen for the statehood point, thats something i have been pushing for years from my soapbox(commonly know as bar stool) ;)

YankeeDan, it is up to us, with dialogue, to try and change our position. i agree with your statements, but feel if each of us Americanos start acting like an ambassador to our country, we can change that sentiment through dialogue and good will. 'tis an uphill battle for sure!

fabius, ill not defend Bush, he's to religious for my liking. but i can't say it would be an impovement to have Blair, either.
EU countries only have a safety net because of the huge amount of money we save them buy having the strongest, most well equipped military in the world. i refer to our military budget as 'Foreign Aid'.

lol, hey Mae, some reasons please!

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#24 mataj

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:00 PM

Originally posted by aLibertarian
mataj says Slovenia, but also gives no reasons.

I don't give reasons, because I don't need them. I'm a patriot.
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#25 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:09 PM

mataj,

that kinda logic would justify german citizens supporting the Nazi's. :confused:

blind faith is foolish no matter what you apply it to. if you are not capable of stating reasons, one has to assume you have none.

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#26 Guest_Fouche_*

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:12 PM

aLibertarian says --Tell me one or two things other nations of the world do better than the
United States of America. --

There are so many things that it is difficult to extract a reasonable sublist. To your concern
I can say :

1 - Cars. The US style cars are outdated. Even the top of the US Sport cars, the
Chevrolet Corvette is still using the old fashioned bow suspension that everybody else
hast abandonned in the world. The natural position of a US car after an accident is wheels
up and burning. The last scandal is the couple Ford Explorer / Firestone tires. As a
consequence the US carmakers can only sell in their captive market. Same story for the
trucks.

2 - Rockets. Verner von Braun build in the sixties a Saturn V capable of lifting 200 tons on
low orbit. Today only the russians can do that with their Proton and you have lost the
technology. Specialist says they will need ten years to rebuild an equivalent of Saturn V.

3 - Memory ships. The japanese and chinese have got the monopoly of memory ships. By
luck you still have Intell for the procesors.

4 - TV Sets. Any nation do best as there is no more american TV set.

5 - Housing. The typical american housing is a 120.000 dollars, three bed, woodden box,
which is quite pretty from outside but a real shit as a house. To nail a picture you need
first to detect the exact position of a nerve if you do not want to break the wall apart. A
strong wind destroy hundred of houses as we regularly see on the news when there is a
hurricane in South Carolina. Such speedy winds are common in western Europe without
lifting the houses in the air.

6 - Instruction. The average american completely lacks of basic instruction. More than half
of 17 years old boys are unable to solve a first order linear equation. A recent poll show
that a majority of americans do not spot Irak on a map. The TV maintain purposedly this
low level of culture. It is true that you have a very good elite but as a population your level
is just above underdevelopped countries.

7 - Income. You cannot say that the americans have a high income. Just dividing the GNP
by the population gives the highest numbers although very near of France or Germany but
the day to day life of the majority of the population is very different. You have millions of
poors that do not exist in Europe. I visited Washington and was afraid by the hughe
underpopulation that you see begging on the streets. There is a bigger flow of tourist from
Europe or Japan than from the US because the average inhabitant is wealthier in these
countries.

8 - Basic supplies. All your electricity system is on 110 volts, consuming much more
copper than those on 200 volts. The system is aerial like in 1850. For long civilized
countries have switched to 220 volt, underground lines, at least for low voltage.

9 - Exposure to foeign investments. There is no protection in the US to foreign
investments and you are loosing big chunks of your economy. The debt of the US is the
biggest per capita, western Europe doing much better. Ford trucks and Chrysler belong to
the german Mercedes, Mack trucks to the french Renault, CBS to the japanese and so on.
he US economy is great in numbers but weak if you have a close look. It holds with the
help of the Pentagone. The big stick protects the investors and foreigners are still
confident to pay your extravagances. For how long?

10 - Love. But this is personal.
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#27 Gospel

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:23 PM

Personally I think it's hard to judge a Nation
unless you've lived in it for an extended period; dealt with the natives on a day to day basis etc.

I've never actually disliked any country that I've
visited and my 'most-liked' are subject to my
own set of preferences.

My 'ideal' would incorporate the cultural
richness of 'Old-Europe' and the Far East, with
the Rockies + Alpine + Carribean asthetics -
topped off with Scandanavian social
infrastructure, antipodean witt, the 'coolness'
of London... etc. etc. etc.
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#28 mataj

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:27 PM

Originally posted by aLibertarian
mataj,

that kinda logic would justify german citizens supporting the Nazi's. :confused:

If Slovenia became like Nazi Germany, and if there would be nothing I could do about it, I would question my loyality towards it. Until then, I'm doing my best to prevent this from happening, and to make my country a good place to live.

A lot of countries have greater BNP, better living standards, and such. But, that doesn't help me a bit. They are not mine, and I have no business there.
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#29 God-n-Country

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 08:32 PM

Fouche,

Great Work,
I am glad we have some "facts" (with a little opinion) to work with.

I believe the most impotant thing americans have is their desire to help, not the cars, or electricity. Those things make life easy, not good.

I pose;
You look out your window and see a gang raping a girl.

If your neighbors are unwilling to help you, should you ignore the rape?

I would go it alone, with my ar-15.

I just feel we must act everytime we see these things

I also wonder why there is such hatred. If someone tries to help me and screws things up, i don't hate them. I might get mad, but not hate.

I also notice we don't ever have any Iraqi citizens speaking up.
Why is that?
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#30 mataj

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 09:49 PM

Originally posted by Khalida
The Slovenien people took great risk to free them self from Yougoslavia, and as far as I remember the first European capitol to be bombed since WWII ended.

Why do you assume patriotism is blind ?

Mine, ours patriotism is everything but blind. Blind patriots would stay in Yugoslavia 2, regardless of its disregard for human rights, democracy, and it's own laws.

For the sake of argument, let's presume that USA manages to turn Slovenia into it's banana republic, and that I, by some weird coincidence, survive the process. In this case, I would no longer be a patriot, because Slovenia would not be my country anymore. It would belong to some corporation instead.
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#31 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 10:32 PM

fouche, i can tell your going to be fun to play with...

if you dont mind, i will address each of your points.

fouch says:

"1 - Cars. The US style cars are outdated. Even the top of the US Sport cars, the
Chevrolet Corvette is still using the old fashioned bow suspension that everybody else
hast abandonned in the world. The natural position of a US car after an accident is wheels
up and burning. The last scandal is the couple Ford Explorer / Firestone tires. As a
consequence the US carmakers can only sell in their captive market. Same story for the
trucks. "

to which i say:
these are corporations you are talking about not countries. personally, i have a Honda that i have had for 10 years, and

probably will have for 10 more. as to you claim to US cars being upside down and on fire, lets see some stats. i'm not

buying another car until the bastards can fly.
see link

http://www.moller.com

fouche says:
"2 - Rockets. Verner von Braun build in the sixties a Saturn V capable of lifting 200 tons on
low orbit. Today only the russians can do that with their Proton and you have lost the
technology. Specialist says they will need ten years to rebuild an equivalent of Saturn V. "

to which i say:
genius is not bound to any particular nation, race, etc... but we are talking about an individual here. i can't claim to be

a rocket scientist, but i don't remember any other country camping under the stars on the Moon, besides us. and its been too

long since we have been back, i might add. i am not sure which specialist you talk of, but its definitely not you. You

don't seem to know the history of the Proton rocket so click below and learn.

http://www.space.com...ory_000707.html

excerpt:
"To make the Proton powerful enough to carry moon-ship prototypes, the Soviet designers took a page from their western

counterpart
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#32 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 10:34 PM

continued from previous post.......

fouche said:
"6 - Instruction. The average american completely lacks of basic instruction. More than half
of 17 years old boys are unable to solve a first order linear equation. A recent poll show
that a majority of americans do not spot Irak on a map. The TV maintain purposedly this
low level of culture. It is true that you have a very good elite but as a population your level
is just above underdevelopped countries. "

to which is say:
no argument their, i am truly disappointed in my countries educational benchmarks. i blame it on Government Schools. our

private schools, however turn out some of the brightest minds in the world, and these students come from all over the world.

fouche said:
"7 - Income. You cannot say that the americans have a high income. Just dividing the GNP
by the population gives the highest numbers although very near of France or Germany but
the day to day life of the majority of the population is very different. You have millions of
poors that do not exist in Europe. I visited Washington and was afraid by the hughe
underpopulation that you see begging on the streets. There is a bigger flow of tourist from
Europe or Japan than from the US because the average inhabitant is wealthier in these
countries. "

to which i say:
you must make this stuff up, Fouche.

click this link

http://unstats.un.or...ial/inc-eco.htm

to see not only is the United States(with $33,000) per Capita GNP 50% higher than both France and Germany(with $21,000 abd

$22,000 respectively), there are few countries that are higher, like Japan, Luxemburg, Norway, etc..
please... just the facts, Fouche. i should be charging you for this, man.

fouche said:
"8 - Basic supplies. All your electricity system is on 110 volts, consuming much more
copper than those on 200 volts. The system is aerial like in 1850. For long civilized
countries have switched to 220 volt, underground lines, at least for low voltage. "

to this i say:
all the houses get 240v, in U.S. and other countries it is stepped down to 110, while in Europe and other places its only

lowered to 220-230. as far as consuming more wire, that must just sound pretty to you, cause it dont make sense. higher

voltages require more, thicker cable, higher towers, etc. but power transmitted over distance is measured in kilovolts. not

sure what your trying to say there.

click on link below, young grasshopper.

http://www.ieee.org/.../faqs.html#120v

110 volts was chosen by Edison, cause he wanted to limit distribution loss, but does not mean it was good idea.

i also think we should switch to Metric, it definitely is a less arbitray system of measurement.


Fouche says:
"9 - Exposure to foeign investments. There is no protection in the US to foreign
investments and you are loosing big chunks of your economy. The debt of the US is the
biggest per capita, western Europe doing much better. Ford trucks and Chrysler belong to
the german Mercedes, Mack trucks to the french Renault, CBS to the japanese and so on.
he US economy is great in numbers but weak if you have a close look. It holds with the
help of the Pentagone. The big stick protects the investors and foreigners are still
confident to pay your extravagances. For how long? "

to which i say:
lol, this is the best club to dance in, if you are talking business, but i wont be able to convince you of that.

as far as foreign companies owning previously american based companies, more power to them. that is the free market working

at its finest. does not bother me a bit. CBS is owned by Viacom, see link:

http://www.viacom.com

Ford is owned by Ford Motor Company, which also owns Mazda, Land Rover, Lincoln, Volvo, Aston Martin, Mercury, and Jaguar.

see link:

http://www.ford.com/en/default.htm

Chrylser is owned by Dailmler Chrysler, which also owns Mercedes-Benz, Smart, Sterling, Freightliner, Setra, Dodge, Jeep, and

Mopar. They are a German company, and more power to them, the Germans make some of the best cars in the world. see link:

http://www.daimlerch...com/index_e.htm

Fouch says:
"10 - Love. But this is personal."

to which i say:
ouch, Fouche. that was a low blow. i personally believe all humans are capable of love, but this is subjective. the French

have made great contributions to love though. everyone PLEASE see link below.

http://www.nationall...oreigners8.html

lol, sorry couldn't resist.

i really should be charging you for this stuff Fouche. i would 'love' to see you respond to this, but people like you vary

rarely take the time to follow up with anything, much less the pursuit of knowledge, so i doubt you wil even click on any of

these links, much less respond to your sounding DEFEAT!

sorry God-n-Country, there are very few facts in fouches response.

aLibertarian
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#33 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 10:38 PM

khalida said
". People do NOT hate americans, they hate the gap between what the american goverment says america stands for the things it do, that affect the world. "

now you speak for the population of the world?????

i am trying to reform my nation. that is why i am a libertarian. if you, in any way, no matter where you live, propose anything that causes any government to increase in size or power, you are a traitor to the human race and an enemy of Freedom. you dont hear that much from overseas, or hear much for that matter, but give me enough time..........

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#34 aLibertarian

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 11:08 PM

thanks for the thoughtful input, CNDONE.

Khalida, you arguments are weak.

you said
"No the population of the world speaks or write and I listen or read. Then I wrote what I have read and heard from people all over the world".

um, OK, can't argue with that.

you also said
"If you reduce the power of a government to zero you have anarci and jungle law. Would that make a superhero to the human race then? "

um, do a little investigating if you want to play with the Adults, Khalida. i am a Libertarian, which means i believe in limited government, not Anarchy. i believe in the potential 'good' in people, and the definite 'evil' of government. i think history proves this.

you also said
"PS. Did you figure out your crime-rates ".

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahaahahahahaahahahaahahahahaahahahhahaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha(pause to breath)hahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahah.

DENMARK HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST CRIME RATES in the world. twice that of America per capita. here is the link AGAIN, although, im sure you, like fouche, are not interested in FACTS.

http://www.uncjin.or...S/trc000927.pdf

clearly showing that Denmark has a much higher crime rate! now that i think about, Denmark must be a really dangerous place to live, Khalida. are you sure you don't need a big strong American to protect and comfort you? SMOOCH!!!!!!!

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#35 Tokyoman

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 11:25 PM

When you are talking about safety and crime rates are you talking about bicycle thefts or murders?

If you want to make a realistic comparison, compare homicide rates and violent crime as opposed to property theft.
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#36 Oceania

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 11:58 PM

Hmm - I had a big gun in Australia ... but you won't like Australia - perth is a City State all of its own ...

However since I was 'persona non grata' there .... I guess NZ is as good as anywhere.

Things are cheap and people friendly - but wages suck ... great lifestyle - and not too many people.

Hmm - a bit of crime - more people iin jail ph of pop than the US ... and not a very good health care system ...

BTW- have all the weapons of mass destruction I need here ...
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#37 aLibertarian

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 12:23 AM

khalida, tokyoman,

since ya'll seem to not want to counter any of the points i make, why don't you post a link or two of you own.

only a fool would believe the crime rate statistics gathered from Iraq considering the amount of crime the Iraqi government commits on its people.

Khalida, as a woman (if u r 1) you should be ashamed of yourself.

click on this link

above this caption is a picture of the actual business card, but you will have to click link to see why.

http://image.guardia...sierenglish.pdf

Excerpt:
"A Professional Rapist

Government personnel card of Aziz Salih Ahmed, identified as a 'fighter in the popular army' whose 'activity' is violation of women's honour' (i.e. professional rapist)

(source: the Iraq Research and Documentation Project, Harvard University)"

how can you address that. he has a professional rapist on the government payroll. i may be a crazy gun toting American, but damn't that in and of itself justifies a regime change. PLEASE ADDRESS THIS ONE KHALIDA. Are you justifying the institutionalized raping of women by the Iraqi government?????

you must of accidentally read Chile's stats incorrectly cause they are definitely higher.

as for Bolivia, they only reported for a couple of years, and interpol seems to suggest they fudged the numbers.

http://www.interpol....bolivia2000.pdf

i lived in South America for 6 months, this is just empircal data, but i witnessed a lot of crime. brutal crime. almost got myself killed a couple of times trying to protect the homeless and women.

also, as to murder and violent crime statistics

here is a link to the USA's

http://www.interpol....001/usa2001.pdf

here is a link to Denmarks

http://www.interpol....denmark2001.pdf

and here is France

http://www.interpol..../france2001.pdf

the only thing one can assume from such statistics, is that we all have problems. the variations are minute when you think of the scale. the United States has 5.61 murders per 100,000 people, Denmark has 3.72, and France has 3.91.

damn im good,

aLibertarian
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#38 aLibertarian

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 12:31 AM

Khalida, one of our founding fathers had this to say

"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither."

Thomas Jefferson

i can understand how quality of life to you might mean being wrapped in a blanket of security, free of risk and free from harm, but not me. i say bring it on, mo fo's. crime has its good side to! gives you the opportunity to target shoot, practice your martial arts, and relieve stress. nothing like whooping a little *** to relieve some stress. besides, we 'American Cowboys' got to keep our killer instinct honed, so we can rush to the aid of countries filled with cowards who need saving from some tyrant or another, and who also lack the men, resolve, ability, courage, resources, and determination to get a little bloody.

yeeeeeeeeeeeeehhaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww,

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#39 mataj

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Khalida
Just out of curiosity are you young and grown up in the "new" Slovenia as an independent nation or have you lived through all the changes an adult ?:)

Adult. I grew up, finished my studies, got my job, bought an apartment, and created my family in Yugoslavia 2. My parents grew up in Yugoslavia 1, and my grandparents in Austro-Hungary. I guess it would be proper for me to consider Yugoslavia 2 my country, which I did - more or less - until Slobo & his goons hijacked it :(


God-n-Country

If you have in mind - say - the last 100-200 years of human history or so, things like one country "helping" or even "liberating" other country sound rather minacious.
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#40 aLibertarian

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 12:39 AM

khalida,

yes, you should be ashamed, because by citing Iraq's crime rate you legitimize something that comes from their government, which you should be protesting. they have a government employed PROFESSIONAL RAPIST, for pete's sake!!!!!

aLibertarian
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