Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo

"WHY RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY FAILED IN 1917" - azov's thread


  • Please log in to reply
101 replies to this topic

#81 Aksip

Aksip

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 42 posts

Posted 30 January 2006 - 02:21 AM

A large reason Democracy failed in Russian in 1917 , and a large reason it has failed today, is that there is not a respect for private property. A government that does not respect the private property rights of its citizens (by not lets say siezing all media outlets for political purposes) then the government will always be inherently despotic.
  • 0

#82 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:46 PM

Originally posted by azov
Reading comprehension in English is not among your many gifts.



you still believe that you need lagers for building toilets?
  • 0

#83 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 21 February 2006 - 02:23 PM

that's a surrealistic answer, not a stalinian one
you're a bourgeois deviatioonnist azov
  • 0

#84 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 22 February 2006 - 08:04 AM

not with your typically leninists and stalinians theories about lagers or the necessary human price to pay for a brighter future...
:-))

i'm the menshevik internationalist!
  • 0

#85 xagversum

xagversum

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6872 posts

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:07 AM

peeps decidedly amphibian
called him azo the stalinian
they preached and shouted
'bout how he pouted
at being the arch pravdian marxian-leninian with potentially formerly green alien leanings
  • 0

#86 northland

northland

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 03 March 2006 - 03:08 AM

Originally posted by xagversum
__________________________________________

azov posted 12-20

Having done much research on this subject, I offer this as convincing an hypothesis as any. Of course there may never be any definite answer - no such things exist in life - but I'll stack my insights up against anyone's. Here goes:

The Russian "Democrats" of WW I were overwhelmingly pro-Allied. While Nicholas II had gotten into the war for reasons of empire, he was by 1916 threatened with the collapse of his army, the rising tide of domestic democracy, and the loss of his Throne, a rerun of 1905-1906 but carried, this time, to full term. Thus he began to have second thoughts, together with his German-born wife, who wished peace at any price to save Nicky's throne and protect her original Fatherland from the Allies. Their unofficial go-between to Berlin was Rasputin.

For this reason Rasputin was despised and assassinated. The suspected peace sentiments of the Tzarina gave the Duma Democrats grist for their mill, allowing them to use the war to advance a liberal democratic platform and gain the sympathy of the Allied embassies. They were also able to propagate fear of the Tzar as "infected" by his wife's peace bug, and not without reason. The Russian Democrats at last saw an opportunity.

A conspiracy for an anti-Tzarist coup was gradually evolved by the Russian Democrats, military, and Allies. The war had to go on, and Nicholas and Alexandra had to go out. Removing them hit a couple of birds with the same rock: because the Eastern Front was collapsing under the German onslaught, it was imperative to get America into the war to save the Allied cause. A collapsed East meant the spectre of German troops marching through Paris, and the key to Paris lay through Petrograd, as German General Ludendorff acknowledged. Yet to get U.S. involvement meant catering to President Woodrow Wilson's democratic sensibilities. Wilson needed overwhelming proof that the war was being waged "to make the world safe for democracy," in his famous phrase, before he could put the case for joining it before the American public. He could not do this with the Tzar of Russia as an ally, for even then Russia was painted as the "prison of nations" and the Tzarist regime had no credibility in U.S. public opinion: "A Kaiser with a beard instead of a mustache."

Although the British were at first reluctant, they had to read the handwriting on the wall and finally acquiesced with the idea of a coup. Riots and strikes were instigated by democratic groups against the Tzar - likely funded, if not directly led, by the Western embassies. The deterioting domestic strife allowed the Allies, the Russian Democrats and Russian General Staff to proposition Nicholas with an offer he could hardly refuse: abdicate, or they would publish the German contacts made by his wife and Rasputin for a seperate peace. The revelation of this would have destroyed the Romanov family's last shred of credibility. Thus faced with a choice of "execution" or "suicide," the Tzar gracefully bowed to the latter. He was also "advised" to abdicate for his son. Grand-Duke Michael was also prevailed upon by the pro-war party to refuse the offered Crown. This put the Liberal faction of the Duma in charge of a so-called Provisional Government of Public Confidence.

With the pro-war Democrats in charge the ewar effort, at first, seemed to receive a new lease on life. Alexander Kerensky, co-founder and Vice-President of the Petrograd Soviet, was made Minister of War in a coalition government of both Duma and Soviet. The problem remained, however, of Russia's technical inability to fight a modern war against an industrial power like Germany. Many common folks were already going in an opposite direction of the pro-war Democrats, seeing in the overthrow of the Tzar a new beginning - the end of the Tzar's war and the beginning of a social revolution. The Soviet's Order Number One, for instance, countermanded the orders of the Army General Staff in favor of the Soviet's executive Committee - long before there was a Bolshevik majority in the Soviet. To arrest this development, Kerensky was finally appointed acting Head of State, in a vain effort to keep the public mood in the pro-war "defensist" camp.

The lack of serious commitment to domestic democracy in favor of the war effort turned the masses away from Kerensky. Kerensky in turn kept postponing the scheduled elections to the Constituent Assembly, stalling until "democracy won the war." This did not sit well with the peasants - some 70% of the population - whose idea of democracy was measured in land and bread, not demagogic phrases or words on paper. Workers wanted an end to wartime shortages, soldiers were tired of fighting, and the national minorities wanted some of this self-determination at home, advocated by the Allies. The Russian Democrats, who depended on liberal landowners, industrialists, the Russian military - all of whom had deep contacts with the Allied Powers - could not give in to this pressure from below without losing their usefulness to those above. They hoped a war victory would resolve the contradiction, but the rotten fence they attempted to straddle simply crumbled from beneath them.

By this time Lenin had come along with his slogan of "land, peace, bread and all power to the Soviets!" As things descended from bad to worse this call proved irresistable, because it was based on concrete solutions to problems and not mere idealistic platitudes. The Russian Democrats, in being so pro-Allied, had forgotten to be pro-Russian; and that democracy, like any other virtue, begins at home. The October Revolution followed. The Provisional Government fell, with no one to run to its rescue.

As a result of this sad story, the Russian Democrats of 1917 remain to this day a disgrace in Russian history. Virtually no one has tried to resurrect their memory in post-Soviet times, in contrast to the flowering interest in the Imperial Era.

As a postscipt, when the Soviet government under Lenin finally allowed the Constituent Assembly to be elected and convene - something the "democrat" Kerensky had refused to do - the dominant party of Social Revolutionaries emerged as victors. But not the Party's leaders; rather, the same discredited pro-war claque had gerrymandered the party's delegation against the will of their own SR Committee. These folks could not recognize that they had long ago blown whatever credibility they possessed in February of 1917. The Constituent Assembly, too, was folded without a fight.

The moral of the story? Thank St. Tatiana that Yeltsin's revamped Provisional Government took power in peacetime . . .
__________________________________________

azov posted 01-03

It's back!
__________________________________________

fighterpilot posted 01-04

azov

<<It's back>>

Are you refering to the Socialist Democratic Party? If so, I totally agree.The USA, is at the present time almost 50% just that.
__________________________________________

european posted 01-04

Fighterpilot - this thread is supposed to be about revolutionary Russia.....is it really necessary to start on about the USA??? Can't you go to the politics forum to indulge your obsession?

Azov: in my last post before they all got deleted I asked if we were going to continue this thread with some thoughts about Stalin's collectivisation, industrialisation and 5 year plans.
__________________________________________

azov posted 01-05

Well, european, we can . . .

Or we can stick to the topic.

I'd prefer the latter, as it's fairly new historical ground.
__________________________________________

european posted 01-07

OK well I haven't got much time now, but one very interesting book I read which uses the new archival stuff coming out is by J Arch Getty 'The Road to Terror'. A lot of previous stuff centred on work by Conquest which is very easy to read because of its awfulness. But his figures of death by famine have largely been discredited in recent years.
__________________________________________

azov posted 01-07

As they deserve to be! Using Conquest's figures, as I explained on another post, leaves not enough free adult Soviet males to do the work or sire the next generation. Conquest is also a patron of far-right Ukrainian nationalists, whose untruthfulness regarding the 1930's famine is legendary - because the British Establishment hoped to use these old UPA/Bandera people in cold war operations, they were special pets of MI6, which helped peddle their nonsense through academics like Conquest.
Of course, I don't want to belittle what really happened. It was bad enough, without being distorted for political agendas.
__________________________________________

azov posted 01-09

Up and running!
More to follow!
Stay tuned, tovarishchi!
__________________________________________

european posted 01-11

yeah will do - will write some stuff tomorrow. Be nice to have a conversation with a lucid person!
__________________________________________

Boogiedog posted 01-11

Interesting.

I believe was Lenin who said that the power was just laying around to be picked up. That is to say that Kerensky had failed to get his act together and Lenin was the better politician.
__________________________________________







Russian democracy never had a chance to begin with. Never has and never will, Russians don't know what democracy is, they will always live in their own squalor...
  • 0

#87 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:19 AM

typically racist statement
  • 0

#88 northland

northland

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:39 AM

Originally posted by lolomarsei
typically racist statement




racism?? seems to be a lot of it on here from what i see!
  • 0

#89 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 09 March 2006 - 09:13 AM

stormfront won the battle on pravda
  • 0

#90 northland

northland

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 984 posts

Posted 09 March 2006 - 05:31 PM

Originally posted by lolomarsei
stormfront won the battle on pravda




LOL, yes i see others here are familiar with that site, wonder how many others here are on SF Russia??
  • 0

#91 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:28 PM

you're the preacher of red brown alliance and you say that?
  • 0

#92 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:29 PM

Originally posted by northland
LOL, yes i see others here are familiar with that site, wonder how many others here are on SF Russia??



and don't want to, not intersted by, and btw it could cause me some trouble according french law
  • 0

#93 shaukat

shaukat

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21822 posts

Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:50 PM

Russian democracy was murdered by Jewish fascim - Which can only breath under dictatorships:

http://www.marxists....dleast/brenner/

:kowt:
  • 0

#94 vladzo

vladzo

    Registered User

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 16824 posts

Posted 23 March 2006 - 09:36 PM

Originally posted by shaukat
Russian democracy was murdered by Jewish fascim - Which can only breath under dictatorships:

http://www.marxists....dleast/brenner/

:kowt:



to szawkat :::::::::::::::::

your website is full of information about ;;; poland, italy, germany, nazis, fascists, zionists, and more; but nothing about russia. AND you posted that link to provide information relating to russia.

the failure of the so called "attempt" at so called "democracy" by the karensky government is only a part of the success of lenin's leadership of the russian worker. and it is also something which in no way can be realy and easily understood by those of us who are posting on this forum RIGHT-NOW. ??? do you underestand what i mean ??? you are not able to relate to this topic because you are not russian, and/or, you are not educated in this topic.

vlad
  • 0

#95 DirtyHarry

DirtyHarry

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1490 posts

Posted 31 March 2006 - 05:59 PM

Originally posted by azov
OO

Beware of what you Eat & Drink the Poisons are all Chemiacals read the Ingrediants (so why are you Sick ?)
  • 0

#96 vladzo

vladzo

    Registered User

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 16824 posts

Posted 01 April 2006 - 05:48 PM

to all ::::::::::::::::::

??? why are all of you ignoring the big news from russia ?????

vlad
  • 0

#97 lolomarsei

lolomarsei

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9226 posts

Posted 11 April 2006 - 08:24 AM

which ones?
  • 0

#98 vladzo

vladzo

    Registered User

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 16824 posts

Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:17 PM

Originally posted by lolomarsei
which ones?



to lolo ::::::::::::::::::::

please try to learn how to post complete thoughts written in complete sentences.

if you are an adult; you should be able to do the above.

vlad
  • 0

#99 xagversum

xagversum

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6872 posts

Posted 05 May 2006 - 01:10 PM

UH
  • 0

#100 Torquez

Torquez

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2191 posts

Posted 05 May 2006 - 01:57 PM

??? why are all of you ignoring the big news from russia ?????

Sorry no time for that I was busy building the Anti-Slavic Proton Gun on Vatican Moon Base. Some orthodox slaves escaped and we had to chase them with zion-droids.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2016 Pravda.Ru