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#21 kiko

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:09 AM

More:

Timasheff, N. S. "The Postwar Population of the Soviet Union." THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SOCIOLOGY, Vol. LIV (September, 1948), pp. 148-155.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. VICTIMS OF YALTA. London: Corgi Books, 1977.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. STALIN'S SECRET WAR. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1981.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. THE MINISTER AND THE MASSACRES. London: Century Hutchinson Ltd, 1986.

Toth, Zoltan. PRISONER OF THE SOVIET UNION. Translated by George Unwin. Old Woking: Gresham Books, 1978.

Tottle, Douglas. FRAUD, FAMINE AND FASCISM: THE UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE MYTH FROM HITLER TO HARVARD. Toronto: Progress Books, 1987.

Ulam, Adam. "Introduction." in Miron Dolot, EXECUTION BY HUNGER: THE HIDDEN HOLOCAUST. New York: W. W Norton & Co., 1985, pp. vii-xii.

Ulam, Adam B. A HISTORY OF SOVIET RUSSIA. New York: Praeger, 1976.

Vairogs, Dainis. LATVIAN DEPORTATIONS 1940-PRESENT. Translated by Martin T. Hildebrants. Rockville, Maryland: The World Federation of Free Latvians, n.d.

V+li, Ferenc A. RIFT AND REVOLT IN HUNGARY: NATIONALISM VERSUS COMMUNISM. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1961.

Vardys, V. Stanley (Ed.). LITHUANIA UNDER THE SOVIETS: PORTRAIT OF A NATION, 1940-65. New York: Praeger, 1965.

Vardys, V. Stanley. "The Baltic Peoples." PROBLEMS OF COMMUNISM, (September-October, 1967), pp. 55-61.

Veenhoven, Willem Adriaan and Winifred Crum Ewing (Eds.). CASE STUDIES ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS: A WORLD SURVEY. Vol. 1. The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff, 1975.

Vizulis, I. Joseph. NATIONS UNDER DURESS: THE BALTIC STATES. Port Washington, New York: Associated Faculty Press, 1985.

Weissberg, Alex. CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE. London: Hamish Hamilton, 1952.

Weissman, Benjamin M. HERBERT HOOVER AND FAMINE RELIEF TO SOVIET RUSSIA: 1921-1923. Stanford, California: Hoover Institution Press, 1974.

Werth, Alexander. RUSSIA AT WAR: 1941-1945. New York: E. P. Dutton, 1964.

Westwood, F. N. RUSSIA SINCE 1917. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1980.

Wheatcroft, S. G. "On Assessing the Size of Forced Concentration Camp Labour in the Soviet Union, 1929-56." SOVIET STUDIES, Vol. 33 (April 1981), pp. 265-295.

Wheatcroft, S. G. "Correspondence." PROBLEMS OF COMMUNISM, (March-April, 1985), pp. 132-4.

Wiles, Peter. "The Number of Soviet Prisoners: Part I: The NKVD in the 1941 Plan". (Paper available at the Library of congress), n.p. (c.1953).

Wilson, Richard and E. A. C. Crouch. "Risk Assessment and Comparisons: An Introduction." SCIENCE, Vol. 236 (April 17, 1987), pp. 267-270.

Wright, Quincy. A STUDY OF WAR. Second Edition. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1965.

Wytwycky, Bohdan. THE OTHER HOLOCAUST: MANY CIRCLES OF HELL. Washington, D. C.: The Novak Report on the New Ethnicity, 1980.

Zawodny, J. K. DEATH IN THE FOREST: THE STORY OF THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE. Notre Dame, Indiana: University of Notre Dame Press, 1962.

Zinsmeister, Karl. "All the Hungry People." REASON, Vol. 20 (June, 1988), pp. 22-30.

Zorin, Libushe. SOVIET PRISONS AND CONCENTRATION CAMPS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY 1917-1980. Newtonville, Massachusetts: Oriental Research Partners, 1980.
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#22 kiko

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:11 AM

Still more :

Timasheff, N. S. "The Postwar Population of the Soviet Union." THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SOCIOLOGY, Vol. LIV (September, 1948), pp. 148-155.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. VICTIMS OF YALTA. London: Corgi Books, 1977.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. STALIN'S SECRET WAR. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1981.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. THE MINISTER AND THE MASSACRES. London: Century Hutchinson Ltd, 1986.

Toth, Zoltan. PRISONER OF THE SOVIET UNION. Translated by George Unwin. Old Woking: Gresham Books, 1978.

Tottle, Douglas. FRAUD, FAMINE AND FASCISM: THE UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE MYTH FROM HITLER TO HARVARD. Toronto: Progress Books, 1987.

Ulam, Adam. "Introduction." in Miron Dolot, EXECUTION BY HUNGER: THE HIDDEN HOLOCAUST. New York: W. W Norton & Co., 1985, pp. vii-xii.

Ulam, Adam B. A HISTORY OF SOVIET RUSSIA. New York: Praeger, 1976.

Vairogs, Dainis. LATVIAN DEPORTATIONS 1940-PRESENT. Translated by Martin T. Hildebrants. Rockville, Maryland: The World Federation of Free Latvians, n.d.

V+li, Ferenc A. RIFT AND REVOLT IN HUNGARY: NATIONALISM VERSUS COMMUNISM. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1961.

Vardys, V. Stanley (Ed.). LITHUANIA UNDER THE SOVIETS: PORTRAIT OF A NATION, 1940-65. New York: Praeger, 1965.

Vardys, V. Stanley. "The Baltic Peoples." PROBLEMS OF COMMUNISM, (September-October, 1967), pp. 55-61.

Veenhoven, Willem Adriaan and Winifred Crum Ewing (Eds.). CASE STUDIES ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS: A WORLD SURVEY. Vol. 1. The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff, 1975.

Vizulis, I. Joseph. NATIONS UNDER DURESS: THE BALTIC STATES. Port Washington, New York: Associated Faculty Press, 1985.

Weissberg, Alex. CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE. London: Hamish Hamilton, 1952.

Weissman, Benjamin M. HERBERT HOOVER AND FAMINE RELIEF TO SOVIET RUSSIA: 1921-1923. Stanford, California: Hoover Institution Press, 1974.

Werth, Alexander. RUSSIA AT WAR: 1941-1945. New York: E. P. Dutton, 1964.

Westwood, F. N. RUSSIA SINCE 1917. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1980.

Wheatcroft, S. G. "On Assessing the Size of Forced Concentration Camp Labour in the Soviet Union, 1929-56." SOVIET STUDIES, Vol. 33 (April 1981), pp. 265-295.

Wheatcroft, S. G. "Correspondence." PROBLEMS OF COMMUNISM, (March-April, 1985), pp. 132-4.

Wiles, Peter. "The Number of Soviet Prisoners: Part I: The NKVD in the 1941 Plan". (Paper available at the Library of congress), n.p. (c.1953).

Wilson, Richard and E. A. C. Crouch. "Risk Assessment and Comparisons: An Introduction." SCIENCE, Vol. 236 (April 17, 1987), pp. 267-270.

Wright, Quincy. A STUDY OF WAR. Second Edition. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1965.

Wytwycky, Bohdan. THE OTHER HOLOCAUST: MANY CIRCLES OF HELL. Washington, D. C.: The Novak Report on the New Ethnicity, 1980.

Zawodny, J. K. DEATH IN THE FOREST: THE STORY OF THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE. Notre Dame, Indiana: University of Notre Dame Press, 1962.

Zinsmeister, Karl. "All the Hungry People." REASON, Vol. 20 (June, 1988), pp. 22-30.

Zorin, Libushe. SOVIET PRISONS AND CONCENTRATION CAMPS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY 1917-1980. Newtonville, Massachusetts: Oriental Research Partners, 1980.
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#23 kiko

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:16 AM

Frunze,

I grew up in New York, and N.Y. is a place that is unique in this world.

Sh_tloads of Russian oldtimers there that will tell their stories if they feel that the one listening is really listening.

I don't need those books to tell me the truth.

I've heard it from the horses mouth.

Same thing from the Jews that survived Hitler.
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#24 Frunze

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:35 AM

oh poor Kiko is pleading now too
I speak to Russians almost everyday and while some are Communists and others not, some like Stalin but most dont. They all agree that life in the USSR was far more free and far better than in present day Russia. The number of people in jail says it all. More in Russia alone than were in the USSR....though still not as many as in USA, in absolute numbers or per-capita.

I really cant understand why you brought it up to start with. I really couldnt give a fu.kk what you think but at the same time, if morons like you people didnt think the USSR was "bad" and USA "good" there would be a problem.

Anyway, can you confirm that captians in the USA peadophile army have access to war plans and is it true that Georgi Zhukov for one, was an inept fool of a military commander?
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#25 kiko

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 11:51 AM

frunze,

>>oh poor Kiko is pleading now too
I speak to Russians almost everyday and while some are Communists and others not, some like Stalin but most dont. They all agree that life in the USSR was far more free and far better than in present day Russia. The number of people in jail says it all. More in Russia alone than were in the USSR....though still not as many as in USA, in absolute numbers or per-capita.<<

MOST DON"T like stalin.

No sh_t.

That m_therf_cker murdered more people than hitler for Christ's sake.

Will Russia finally become part of the West like it always dreamed of for hundreds of years ?

My opinion is that Russians will have to face their past first, not unlike the Germans have done.

If not, there is no hope.

>>I really cant understand why you brought it up to start with. I really couldnt give a fu.kk what you think but at the same time, if morons like you people didnt think the USSR was "bad" and USA "good" there would be a problem.<<

Gee, I must give a fu.kk enough what you think to engage with you in an honest conversation.

Is that the difference between the West and a communist?

And yes, I do think that stalin's murder spree of at least 10 million was "bad", while in the U.S., the civil rights movement was "good''

Care to argue ?


P.S. As for Russian Military Comanders, I happen to know that Zhukov was a brilliant man. Americans have learned much from him.

I hope you have not confused me with anyone else about that particular subject.
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#26 Frunze

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 03:32 PM

What are you raving about "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" and "10 million" and blah, blah, blah.

Did you get all this on CNN? Archives opened since the collapse of the USSR show that it cannot be proven that Stalin was responsible for the deaths of anymore than 700000 people. Many of them were capitalists and lackeys of the capitalists while still others were violent criminals. While still others were good Communists.

Im not a Stalinist, Im a Marxist-Leninist but Im still able to understand that even Stalinism is a tremendous advance compared with capitalism.

What are you talking anout "Stalin murdering 10 million being bad and the USA civil rights movement being good"?

I stated that for me there would be a problem if morons like you didnt think the USSR "bad" and USA "good".

All the peoples of the USSR were equal from its inception, only in a fascist state like USA would there need to be any bourgeois civil-rights movement, where absolutely nothing of the fundamental rights of the people changes. Nothing fundamental changes period, only since the post war boom (finishing in the 1970s) it has been getting more rotten more quickly that other major capitalist powers.

Insofar as Zhukov, I just thought you may agree with "USA-forever" that the reason for Soviet Losses in the first months of the Nazi invasion wasnt as a result of being vastly outgunned and manourvered, but as a result of the stupidity of Zhukov for one.
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#27 Guest__*

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 01:21 AM

Iraq creates National resistance front to US- British
coalition
Russia rejects all accusations of arms deliveries to Iraq; Says Private Companies May Be
Involved

4/11/03 11:22:16 AM
Discuss this story in the forum
ITAR-TASS

Baghdad, Iraq -- http://www.iraqwar.r...Id=2645&lang=en

Iraq creates National resistance front to US- British coalition

11.04.2003 [18:09]

Iraq has launched activities with the aim to create a National resistance front to the U.S. British coalition.

One of its leaders in exile, Abdel Amir ar-Rakabi, who represents the Iraqi patriotic movement, told Abu Dhabi
satellite television that a resolution on the establishment of the National resistance front would be announced in Iraq
in two days' time,

The leader of the National resistance front has called on all the Iraqi patriotic forces to boycott any government
created under conditions of the Iraqi occupation.

Ar- Rakabi has declared that the Shiite and Sunnit religious authorities should adopt a religious law that shall ban
cooperation with any of the occupying governments.

????????: Viktor Lebedev/ITAR-TASS

-----

http://www.iraqwar.r...Id=2645&lang=en

Russia rejects all accusations of arms deliveries to Iraq

11.04.2003 [18:04]

The Russian Defence Ministry categorically denies any possibility of Russian arms deliveries to Iraq through state
structures, but does not rule out a possibility of Russian arms reaching Iraq by private channels, Colonel General
Anatoly Mazurkovich, head of the Chief Department for International Military Cooperation under the Russian Defence
Ministry, said in an exclusive interview with Itar-Tass on Friday. He is a member of the Russian delegation, led by
Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, which arrived in Tokyo for a visit.

Taking into account the U.N. embargo of long standing on all arms exports to Iraq, "we did not deliver, are not
delivering and do not intend to deliver there any military products, considering the current situation," General
Mazurkovich continued. He rejected all complaints of Americans, who accused Russia of supplying radio electronic
anti-tank devices and other types of armaments to the Iraqi army. "Our enterprises and state institutions have never
engaged in any such business. This is easy to check and prove," he stressed.

"If any weapon systems happened to be on the territory of Iraq, they could be brought there by private channels," he
admitted. "Neither the Russian Federation, nor the Russian Defence Ministry have anything to do with it. Moscow
has informed Washington of it on more than one occasion, according in an official way."

????????: ITAR-TASS




....

good posts Frunze
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#28 AnotherEuropean

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 01:31 AM

>
>My opinion is that Russians will have to face their past first, not unlike the Germans have done.
>

Listen kid ... Germans don't really have a clue about their history, they learn their history from Allied produced propaganda machines, just as we all do. The day russia starts facing its history the way Germans do, is the day you're gonna end up as second rate nation who is totaly dependant on the new Roman Empire (The US).

You may look up to germans, but I assure you ... your admiration is wrongly placed.
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#29 Guest__*

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 01:45 AM

ha ha ha ha ha ha very good

cheers
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#30 SkyRazr

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 06:38 AM

Frunze, you need to lay off the ganja. Check any real respectable history book. Stalin killed way more than that. Upwards of 30,000,000.
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#31 kiko

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 06:54 AM

Oh, stalin only murdered 700,000 ?

I guess it's ok then.

Silly me.

Idiot.
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#32 Frunze

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 10:31 AM

Kiko
Im not saying it was "ok" Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 700000 people at most, though, if it is indeed true he was responsible for the deaths of capitalists and their lackeys he is to be commended. Such actions are defending the vast majority of the people and helping lay the foundations on which life can flourish and life in the USSR did flourish at that time. This was primarily as a result of the civil and economic structure left behind by V. I. Lenin and the Bolsheviks but its impossible to claim Stalin had nothing to do with it.

Be that as it may, Stalin was still responsible for the deaths of some good Communists and ordinary workers and this cannot be forgiven.

No question fascists like Roosevelt and Churchill were responsible for far more than 700000 deaths.

Lenin said "the international bourgeoisie have just murdered 10 million and maimed another 20 million men and they call this "justified", yet, these same bourgeoisie will call anyone killed in the Russian revolution "a crime"".

I think this sums up the whole argument perfectly.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right Skyraz, would this be the same history book that told you "a capitalist is anyone who has ever purchased or ever wanted to purchase a commodity" or did you learn it at "one of the best universities in USA"?

Some of the figures put forward are utterly absurd, such as "upwards of 30 million". How could anyone expect anything else but absurdities from you Skyraz?

I remebber reading an article about these absurd figures put forward in USA history books. They examined the book and showed that if the information put forward were true, the entire country and then some would have had to mobilize to carry out Stalins wishes.

Never mind that the population of the entire country at that time was only a little over 150 000 000 and upwards of 30 million Soviet citizens died in WW2. So in other words, 1/3 of the population was killed in the space of 10 years and then we have to add deaths of natural casuses, accidents, disease and etc.

How USA ignorant philistines like to delude themselves, especailly those attending "one of the best universities in USA".
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#33 kiko

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 10:50 AM

f.

You support a time and place that would not allow you to do what you are doing now.

Did stalin kill 30 million over the years he held power ?

What if it was only ten million ?

Stop making exuses for the guy.
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#34 Frunze

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 10:58 AM

No Kiko
As I have stated, evidence shows that Stalin cant be blamed for anymore than 700000 deaths andmany of those were capitlaists and their lackeys.

Insofar as the rest, I dont understand. Compose your ideas more clearly.
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#35 AnotherEuropean

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 11:07 AM

>
>No Kiko
As I have stated, evidence shows that Stalin cant be blamed for anymore than 700000 deaths andmany of those were capitlaists and their lackeys.
>
>Insofar as the rest, I dont understand. Compose your ideas more clearly.
>

If you talk to an American ... they'll say he killed hundred million ... and Saddam killed millions and millions and millions.

Their number system starts in millions, when others are involved ... but in the teens when it's themselves ... of course, they're the good guys and saving the world from the rest of us.
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#36 Frunze

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 11:24 AM

Of course in Kosovo, it wasnt "millions" it was "only" 500 000 Albanians murdered, then it was "only" 100 000, then after the terror bombing finished it was "only" 10 000, then after the army of forensics experts finished digging up every body buried in Kosovo over the last 500 years it was 2108 and of that number, roughly half were Serbs or Roma and over half were killed by NATO bombs.

Albrights response was that "it doesnt matter how many, its the principle that matters."
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#37 kiko

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 12:09 PM

european,

Any study by anyone with half a brain has shown us that millions were murdered through a variety of means.


http://www.ukrweekly...ine/index.shtml

http://www.hawaii.ed...lls/COM.ART.HTM

http://ya.msi.ru/musemus/main.htm

http://www.star-cs.c...star/gulag.html

http://www.gulag.ru/


Take your head out of the sand.


frunze,

I'm a capitlist.

Should I be sent to death by gulag ?
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#38 rayko

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 12:09 PM

frunze, sadsack,another euro, et al, do you guys all get together, share the same crack pipe, then dream up your facts?
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#39 predax

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 12:15 PM

You mean like you, Kiko, USCitizen and American Eagle share the same needle for your daily shot of heroin? No, we don't.
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#40 Frunze

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 04:17 AM

Kiko
Its truely amazing how every person in USA defending capitalism claims to be a capitalist him or herself.

Capitalists in general are useless pigs! They do nothing other than try to accumulate ever greater amounts of capital at any price. The international working class is the creator of all wealth, while the capitalists are the creators of all wars, poverty and misery.

I know in USA one is considered some kind of "failure" or "loser" unless one is (finanacially) rich but in civilised countries this isnt so.

Im not sure what "death by gulag" means, however, hypothetically speaking, if you were a capitalist you would have to answer for your crimes in accordance with the law. Not laws like those in USA which put the rights of property over the rights of people but laws enacted for and through the people.

Of course Im not saying all capitalists are useless pigs and criminals, just 99% (at least). I know one capitalist who posts here and he is a very good and old comrade of mine. He only robs USA workers even though he is not American himself. He does this for 2 reasons.

1. Its much easier to do than it is elsewhere due to the laws and structure of society in general.

2. He has no sympathy for "flag waving", "patriotic" USA workers.
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