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#201 BlackCloudSky

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 02:09 AM

Saddam, you are a wonder. Having just glanced at the information you have posted, I do not know how you keep churning it out. My efforts seem as nothing to yours.

It seems a very strange situation where events seem to be organised like a second rate movie. I find a web sited called Christian Churches of God. http://www.holocaust...ed.org/main.htm

Quote: -

Extract from The Last Thirty Years: The Final Struggle

The defence of the European system will of necessity involve an invasion of the Middle East. Once this occurs then the Islamic states in the Central Republics will accelerate the war into a nuclear conflict. This could happen at any time over the period 2001-2020. Perhaps it might be as early as 2003-2005.
----------------
Europe is placing the Galileo global satellite navigation system in place, to replace reliance on the USA. They are now stepping up pressure to occupy the Middle East with a UN force based in Jerusalem, aimed at limiting Israeli influence and strength, and appeasing the Arab opposition. This will continue now until the European system is in place and takes over from the US.

This will be the real system of the New World Order and the USA and the British Commonwealth will be victims of their own bureaucratic duplicity.

The Nuclear operations of WWIII will emerge from the conflicts that are growing in India and Pakistan and the old Soviet systems to the west and north of them. The US announced plans at the beginning of 2002 for nuclear reactions against Russia, China, North Korea, Iraq and Iran.

Large numbers of nuclear and bio-chemical weapons are missing, unknown or suspected in place in Iraq and elsewhere.

As a result of the failure in 1991 of "Operation Desert Storm" to realise any significant strategic goals and remove Saddam Hussein, the US is now preparing to reinvade Iraq. Also, Iraq in its turn is preparing to support Palestine in the invasion of Israel. Saudi Arabia is trying to stabilise its position but is losing influence and the push against the king of the North is rapidly advancing.
--------------------------
End quote: -

Then I find that the actors are fake, and they have been drafted in. There seems a lot of urgency, and almost recklessness in the way the Iraq war was conducted. Now we see Powell having another go at Syria. The whole show over history is as though it is organised by some one who is totally and completely mad.

Frankly I wonder if we are missing the real significance of all this.

At present though I am very fed up with looking at crazy web-sites, and the fact that so many people seem to be so totally unable to want to know the truth. The majority just do not even want to look. I feel I have tried, and I am not at all sure if I have achieved anything.

Again I think you are marvellous in the information you have got Saddam.

I wonder if we will be able to stop these people Saddam. I am not at all sure if I can do this on my own.

I am extremely tired, so tomorrow I will finish writing an email to the UN. per http://www.waronfree...g4peacekit.html

I will keep looking in on this forum. Many thanks Saddam. You must be very dedicated. I wish I knew you better.
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#202 gonzo

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 03:06 AM

DonDan,

If it were the year 1933 i would vote for the Nazi Party.
If it were the year 1936 i would vote for the Nazi Party.
If it were the year 1939 i would vote for the Nazi Party.
If it were the year 1940 i would vote for the Nazi Party.

If it were the year 1941 i would NOT vote for the Nazi Party.

I would be against the invasion of Holland and Belgium. As long as these countries declared themselves neutral, Hitler should have stayed out, The Germans had no business there.

Of course the extermination of the Jews was dreadfully wrong and horrible, and as I stated above attacking Russia was wrong and is something people will question for decades to come. I dont believe Stalin would have made the first aggressive move on Germany but we will never know that. This could be debated.

The Nazis did many good things as a government, They looked after German interests and rejected the "unreasonable" Treaty of Versailles. Extortion and profitering was stopped by Hitler. This was finally a German government who meant business! (but they went to far.) The Nazi government had genorous social programs and top flight Medical facilities and transformed the country to have a superior infrastructure .

Did you know that todays German Government is using a plan created from the 1930's Nazi government to build a canal from Hamburg-Hannover-Berlin.

I see evil in Communism, Fascism, Capitalism and all other forms of government.

Answer me this;
*Only 40 years prior to the beginings of the Nazi Government.
The USA exterminated, persecuted the Indigenous peoples of America. Why is this forgotton or accepted? Why are the Nazis the only bad guys?

**The Soviets murdered milions of Ukrainians between WWI and WW II. Why is this forgotton or accepted? Why are the Nazis the only bad guys?

Do you see my point.
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#203 BlackCloudSky

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 11:59 AM

Gonzo, There is good and evil in all of us. You speak of Communism, Fascism, Capitalism. Socialism, etc. What are all these ism's, but imaginary man made concepts to help us understand aspects of human society.

None of these are concrete things. They each represent abstract concepts which give human beings an imaginary handle to identify with, and which may be helpful to understand society. In reality each of these concepts is based on sub concepts, which in turn are based on subconcepts. So the reallity and unity of these concepts is entirely a product of our imagination. i.e. each concept is a collective of sub-concepts.

Because of the limitations of mass intelligence, he comes to believe the illusion. Then to base all of one political policy on only one of these concepts, instead of using the aspects of each of tem as appropiate is a mistake. Unfortunately most politicians seem unable to unable to see beyond their own favorite philosophy.

Worse Hitler (according to one source) adopted the Nordic Gods and aspects of Lutherism (the swastica was apparently a cross in the Lutherin church of his child hood), and aspects of Nietze's philosophy, and virtually invented the religion of Nazism.

We are, whatever Fundamentalist Christians would have us believe, evolved from apes, and our closest relatives are chimpanzees. Further we are tribal species.

Unfortunately we as a species have always liked to imagine that we at the centre of the universe; we are the only intelligent species; other animals have no souls; G_d chose us and we are the chosen people; we are the master race of Aryian origin. Flimsy illogical arguments are used which look sufficiently real to convince stupid humans that they really are the chosen people, or the master race, or the only sentient beings in the universe, etc. We are so very arrogant, like to believe this, and it is so much easier to produce false justification for ones evil deeds. That way you remove the need to have a conscience.

Further it is very convenient to further justify oneself by not admitting the wrongs that have been done. So the native Indians are all painted as one race (They were in fact very different) and a standard image has been produced, which is quite incorrect. but convenient for stupid arrogant humans.

The evil is therefore in man. Yes, you are quite correct. We are all so like each other, and so very arrogant and so very stupid. I recall seeing a telly program where apparently Winston Churchhill said "What are facism and communism; they are like the North and South poles; both cold and bleak." This is true, because both of these philosophies do not recognise the human spiritual aspect of our being, nor the sanctity of human life.

Yeschua gave us one other commandment. "To love one another as we love ourselves" and that that law was above all other laws. Perhaps you know that this law is true.

I do not think we are just machines. That there is far more to us. That we have spiritual, emotional and all kinds of aspects that our language is barely adequate to describe. Now as stated we are evolved from apes. I also believe that all animals are sentient. This is obvious if you study dogs, cats, birds, apes, monkeys, Elephants, whales.

But, when Jesus was with a group of children, he said that any person who hurt a hair of their head would be better putting a millstone round his neck and drowning himself. and he also said that even all the sparrows were counted. But one child is worth how many sparrows. A million or a billion?

Jesus also said when the pharisees were trying to pick him up in the law (the Torah). "The law was made for man; not man for the law"

I recall the Chief Rabbi on Radio 4 saying that G_d was supposed to have said "If you forget me, remember my law, for it is through my law that you shall know me"

I also remember a hit pop song. the words are something like this "Search for the answer inside yourselves"

Do you also remember the word of the song John Lennon wrote "Imagine; Imagine there's no heaven, no hell; all the lonely people.....etc" Do you think we create our own hell?
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#204 BlackCloudSky

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 03:13 PM

Donan & Gonzo, Perhaps you ought to read this: -
http://www.arachnoid...tusp/alien.html
It might be instructive to you both.

You search all the scriptures of the world. If the truth be not within you and you are blind inside you will never see it.
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#205 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 08:06 PM

Are there any regions of more advanced behavior, a place where we could safely present ourselves?

Emphatically not. In fact, there is one area of Earth that is much worse than the others -- it's called "America." The Americans have raised dissatisfaction to an art form. They rarely notice events and creatures of great beauty, and completely miss spectacular examples of nature's generosity. For example, I once monitored the brain-waves of a human observing a sunset. After a moment, he thought "If only this sunset were 10% prettier, why then I would be happy."

What causes this distorted view of reality?

Well, humans have only recently acquired intellectual skills, therefore those skills are in a dangerous, immature form. We have seen this in other places -- the Earthlings have Godlike thinking powers grafted onto animal personalities. They have the ability to destroy themselves through badly formed ideas, but no ability to curb their passions.


from "Interview with an Extraterrestrial". Thanks BlackCloudSky.
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#206 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 09:08 PM

"Hitler will have no war, but he will be forced into it, not this year but later..." (The Jewish Emil Ludwig, Les Annales, June, 1934)
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#207 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 09:20 PM

"Whenever an American or a Filipino fell at Bataan or Corregidor or at any other of the now historic spots where MacArthur's men put up their remarkable fight, their survivors could have said with truth: 'The real reason that boy went to his death, was because Hitler's anti-Semitic movement succeeded in Germany.'" (The American Hebrew, July 24, 1942).

"Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our moral enemy. Have no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill every German -- wipe them out!" (Llya Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111).
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#208 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 09:37 PM

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." (The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939)

"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937)
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#209 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 10:25 PM

"The fight against Germany has now been waged for months by every Jewish community, on every conference, in all labor unions and by every single Jew in the world. There are reasons for the assumption that our share in this fight is of general importance. We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation, and to recover her lost territories as well as her colonies. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany..." (Valadimir Jabotinsky, in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934)

"In fact, about 600 news-papers were officially banned during 1933. Others were unofficially silenced by street methods. The exceptions included Judische Rundschau, the ZVfD's Weekly and several other Jewish publications. German Zionism's weekly was hawked on street corners and displayed at news stands. When Chaim Arlosoroff visited Zionist headquarters in London on June 1, he emphasized, 'The Rundschau is of crucial Rundschau circulation had in fact jumped to more than 38,000 -- four to five times its 1932 circulation. Although many influential Aryan publications were forced to restrict their page size to conserve newsprint, Judische Rundschau was not affected until mandatory newsprint rationing in 1937.
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#210 Saddam

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 11:38 PM

"Christianity, therefore is unhistoric and unmoral." (A Program for the Jews and Humanity, Harry Waton, p. 121).

Another famous betrayal of a country bit its Jews took place in Spain. In his History of the Jews, Vol. III, p. 109, Professor Graetz relates: "The Jews of Africa, who at various times had emigrated thither from Spain, and their unlucky co-religionists of the Peninsula, made common cause with the Mahometan conqueror, Tarik, who brought over from Africa into Andalusia an army eager for the fray. After the battle of Xeres (July, 711 A.D.), and the death of Frederic, the last of the Visigothic kings, the victorious Arabs pushed onward, and were everywhere supported by the Jews. In every city that they conquered, the Moslem generals were able to leave but a small garrison of their own troops, as they had need of every man for the subjection of the country; they therefore confided them to the safekeeping of the Jews. In this manner the Jews, who but lately had been serfs, now became the masters of the towns of Cordova, Granada, Malaga, and many others. When Tarik appeared before the capital, Toledo, he found it occupied by a small garrison only, the nobles and clergy having found safety in flight. While the Christians were in church, praying for the safety of their country and religion, the Jews flung open the gates to the victorious Arabs (Palm Sunday, 712 A.D.), receiving them with acclamations, and thus avenged themselves for the many miseries which had befallen them in the course of a century since the time of Reccared (The 'miseries' which the Jews claimed prompted them to treason was explained by Professor Graetz. King Reccard 'the most oppressive of all was the restraint touching the possession of slaves. Henceforward the Jews were neither to purchase Christian slaves nor to accept them as presents.' (History of the Jews, Vol. III, p. 46)) and Sisebut (The 'miseries' of King Sisebut was that he was annoyingly determined to convert them to Christianity. History of the Jews, Vol. III, p. 46)). The capital also was entrusted by Tarik to the custody of the Jews, while he pushed on in pursuit of the cowardly Visigoths, who had sought safety in flight, for the purpose of recovering from them the treasure which they had carried off.

Finally when Musa Ibn-Nosair, the Governor of Africa, brought a second army into Spain and conquered other cities, he also delivered them into the custody of the Jews." (History of the Jews, Professor Graetz, Vol. III, p. 109; The Iron Curtain Over America, John Beaty, pp. 194-195).
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#211 BlackCloudSky

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 11:40 PM

Hello Saddam, Glad you appreciate the alien viewpoint.
See also:- Briefing for a descent into hell - http://www.salon.com...003/04/02/hell/
(One day pass available - lets you see article)
While discussing Israel-Palestine-Iraq, remember the rest of the world:- More than three million Congolese dead, and no one notices, says IRC - http://www.alertnet..../IRCDRCview.htm
Significance:- See article above - Part 2
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#212 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 12:55 AM

Real Torah Judaism
The Jerusalem Post,
International Edition, p. 18
January 25, 1996.


When I was but a blushing bar mitzvah boy in Pontiac, Michigan, I asked a kindly Reform rabbi about the meaning of Judaism. He was a modest man, and he replied by quoting Hillel: "Do not do unto others what you don't want done to you. The rest is commentary."

This sounded good to me. Fifteen years after the Holocaust I wasn't about to swallow any stories about an all-powerful God. The way i figured it, if there was a God, He didn't like Jews any better than anyone else. And if there wasn't, it certainly didn't make any sense to give up cheeseburgers. No, the Hillel Principle was just the sort of Judaism I could get behind. It wasn't until I moved to Jerusalem in 1967 that I became exposed to The Commentary. Jerusalem then, as now, was awash in holymen -- Talmudic scholars renowned for their genius, kabbalists and hasidic rebbes who knew God's deepest secrets, rabbinical heroes who, with a shofar and a rifle, were recreating the days of Joshua. Surrounded by such high-powered sanctity and wisdom I was of course awed. My do-unto-others Judaism seemed hopelessly basic and insufficient.

And so I tried to learn. I studied Talmudic at the Hebrew University and at a Jerusalem yeshivah (I withhold the name to protect the innocent), I spent holidays and Shabbat weekends in religious kibbutzim and hasidic shtiebels. I was positive that I would discover from the authentic Orthodox rabbis the meaning of Real Torah Judaism.

I stuck to this belief for a long time. When Rabbi Meir Kahane began preaching that Arabs are dogs and the penalty for a Muslim man marrying a Jewish woman should be death, I said to myself: This guy is an extremist fringe rabbi from Brooklyn. He doesn't speak for Real Torah Judaism.

Then along came Rabbi Yitzhak Peretz, Shas cabinet minister. He said a schoolbus full of kids was hit by a train because God was angry that the movie theater in their town was open on Friday nights. I said to myself: He may be a rabbi, but he's not a major rabbi, he's a politician. He is not speaking for Real Torah Judaism.

Next came the Lubavitcher Rebbe. He allowed his followers to declare him The Messiah. I said to myself: He's old and senile, he doesn't know what his disciples are doing. They are not speaking for Real Torah Judaism.

After that came Rabbi Yitzhak Kadouri, the world's greatest kabbalist. He put a hex on a Jerusalem office building that blocked his view. I said to myself: The man's a mystic. He's not representative of Real Torah Judaism. Next, former chief rabbi Shlomo Goren put out a death warrant on Yasser Arafat. I said to myself: He's so old he doesn't know what he's saying. Surely he doesn't speak for Real Torah Judaism.

Rabbi Dov Lior, the head of a Kiryat Arba yeshivah, declared IT KOSHER TO KILL GENTILE WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN WARTIME. I said to myself: He lives in Kiryat Arba. He doesn't speak in the name of Real Torah Judaism.

Rabbi Nahum Rabinovitch, dean of another major yeshivah, advocated scattering land mines to prevent Israeli soldiers from carrying out orders in the West Bank. I said to myself: He's just a geek from Canada. Obviously he doesn't speak for Real Torah Judaism.

Then 20,000 yeshivah boys gathered to stone and threaten Israeli archaeologists. One of their leaders, Rabbi David Batzri, proclaimed that God had sent an earthquake to punish the scientists. I said to myself: These are just primitive fools blowing off steam. They don't speak for Real Torah Judaism.

Next, Rabbi Moshe Maya arose in the Knesset and said that the halakhic penalty for homosexuality is death. He proved it, too, by citing the relevant text. But I said to myself: You can prove anything using the Bible. Rabbi Maya certainly doesn't represent Real Torah Judaism.

Then, just the other day, a dispute broke out between two of Israel's former chief rabbis. Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, universally considered one of the great Torah scholars of the age, was quoted as ruling that the faithful should refuse transfusions from gentiles and nonobservant Jews because they [we] have dangerously treif blood which might cause all manner of un-Jewish behavior.

His colleague, Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, took issue with this learned opinion. According to him, Jewish blood is inherently pure and therefore incapable of defiling Jewish recipients. When I heard this, I said to myself -- well, what could I say? Here are two of the world's leading rabbinical authorities, neither fringe nor fanatic, at the peak of their intellectual and spiritual powers. And they have a clear answer to the question that has plagued me since my bar mitzvah-boy days. Real Torah Judaism is found neither in good deeds nor in humble faith. It certainly has nothing to do with something so simplistic as the golden rule. No, Real Torah Judaism is a scientifically based doctrine of racial purity. Jews have one, superior, kind of blood, the rest of humanity has another.

No wonder the rabbi back in Pontiac quoted Hillel. He was probably ashamed to tell the truth.
______________________________________________

Still the question is : what is the real Torah Judaism ???
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#213 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 01:28 AM

Writer: Israel Has WWII Assets
By Jack Katzenell, Associated Press Writer Thursday, April 13, 2000; 2:12 p.m. EDT
JERUSALEM


Israel, which has criticized Switzerland and other countries for failing to return assets of Jews who perished in the Holocaust, also failed to return wartime assets, a researcher said Thursday.

Until this year, Israel made no effort to make the existence of property it held publicly known or find the owners or their heirs, said Yossi Katz, who has just published a book on the subject.

However, unlike some European banks and other financial institutions, Israel never tried to conceal the existence of the assets nor refused to return them if a claimant had proof of ownership, Katz, a professor of geography and history at Tel Aviv's Bar-Ilan University said.

In his 350-page book, "Forgotten Property," Katz writes that land, houses, and other assets in what was then British Mandatory Palestine were purchased by European Jews, many of whom later died in the Holocaust.

Although no definitive assessment of the assets exists, the documents he compiled show they were substantial and included shares, securities, bank deposits and insurance policies, as well as buildings, urban land and agricultural land, Katz told The Associated Press.

"I never imagined the scale of the property which the documents would reveal," he said. "Some of the land is in the center of (the Tel Aviv suburbs of) Bat Yam or Holon, and its value is astronomical."

Some of the real estate is held to this day by the government Custodian of Abandoned Property, some by a semiofficial body called the Jewish National Fund and some by banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions.

According to the 1971 Government Year Book, the finance ministry at the time empowered the Custodian to sell some of the real estate, but the present custodian said recently he does not know if any was sold, or if so, how much.

Diaspora Affairs Minister Michael Melchior said that Israel must restore the property to its rightful owners but rejected comparing Israel's record with that of European countries who "plundered the Jews and afterwards sent them to the concentration camps."

Israel has helped lead legal action against European banks, insurance companies and other institutions to force them to restore unclaimed wartime accounts and policies or property plundered by the Nazis to Holocaust survivors and their heirs.

At Katz' prodding, a parliamentary committee has been set up to study the problem and submit recommendations to the government. In addition, Israel published a list in January of 1,000 unclaimed bank accounts from the Holocaust era in an effort to help survivors and their heirs recover assets, and promised to publish another 14,000 accounts and other government-held assets next year.

The Israel Museum also recently restored a painting that it had determined was stolen to its rightful owner.

Katz said those measures were not enough.

He called for an independent commission to conduct detailed research aimed at locating all the property and establishing who owns it.

The government, he said, should also make an active effort to find the owners or their heirs. In cases where that proves impossible, Katz called for legislation empowering the commission to seize the assets and use them for the benefit of Holocaust survivors or for Holocaust research.

© Copyright 2000 The Associated Press
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#214 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 01:41 AM

By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, May 7, 1997 5:13 pm EDT


JERUSALEM (AP) -- Swiss banks may not be the only ones holding the missing assets of Holocaust victims: Some of the money may be in banks in Israel, according to a study published in an Israeli newspaper Wednesday.

Yossi Katz, a geography professor at Bar-Ilan University near Tel Aviv, wrote in Haaretz that German Jews deposited huge sums in banks here before World War II, and that the fate of the accounts remains unclear.

The report comes after a year in which Jewish groups and the U.S. Congress spearheaded a campaign against Swiss banks, accusing them of hiding up to $7 billion in unclaimed deposits of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis.

Avraham Burg, the head of the quasi-governmental Jewish Agency and a leader of that campaign, said he would pursue Katz's allegations and expected that recovering such assets in Israel would be a much smoother process.

``I don't have the full information yet, but ... we will find a solution in a matter of weeks, not years,'' Burg told The Associated Press.

Katz wrote that the deposits made by Jews who lived in Germany and Nazi-occupied countries were frozen by British authorities in Mandatory Palestine under the so-called ``Trading with Enemy Order.'' Also frozen were assets in Palestine owned by Jews who lived in territory controlled by Nazi Germany.

Although he did not know the exact sum involved, Katz cited a 1946 study showing deposits in Palestine banks frozen under the act totaling 2.1 million pounds sterling; not accounting for interest, that now equals 44 million pounds, or $70 million.

Katz said that in 1949, Israel's government investigated but failed to confirm a claim that there were ``many millions of pounds'' in such assets in the Anglo-Palestine Company -- a Jewish-owned bank which later became Bank Leumi, currently Israel's second-largest financial institution.

``We don't know anything about these funds. We have never heard about them,'' said Bank Leumi spokeswoman Ricki Karmi. She said the bank had never received any inquiries on the issue.

There was no immediate comment from Israeli or British authorities.

Katz wrote that an unknown number of deposits were handed by the banks back to heirs of the depositors, and another unknown sum was taken over by the state.

``If unclaimed deposits of Holocaust victims were transferred to state coffers -- this was just,'' Katz wrote. But he added: ``We can only hope the state made an effort to locate surviving depositors of the legal heirs.''

Katz was not available for further comment.
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#215 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 01:51 AM

Survivor reveals 1945 plan to kill 6 million Germans
DOUGLAS DAVIS

Jewish Telegraphic Agency


LONDON -- Israel's first president supported a Jewish group's plans to murder Germans immediately after World War II, according to the man who led the avengers.

Details of the plan, which included poisoning bread at a bakery, were unveiled by Lithuanian-born Joseph Harmatz, 73, in an interview published recently in the British newspaper the Observer.

Harmatz, who lost two brothers in the Holocaust, led an organization -- Din, or Judgment -- made up of survivors of the Vilna Ghetto. Their objective: the deaths of 6 million Germans as vengeance for the Jews who died in the Holocaust.

The idea for the organization apparently came from the poet Abba Kovner -- a leader of the Lithuanian partisans who is credited with describing Jews as "being led like lambs to the slaughter" -- and Vitka, his partisan girlfriend and later his wife.

As a first step, Kovner was sent to Tel Aviv to win the support of the Jewish leaders in prestate Israel for a plan to poison Germans.

David Ben-Gurion, then head of the Jewish Agency and later Israel's first prime minister, was appalled by the idea and was worried that it would prejudice the chance of establishing a state.

Zalman Shazar, who later became Israel's third president, was also hostile to the plan.

Harmatz, who from 1960 to 1994 headed the World ORT network of Jewish-sponsored vocational institutions, said, "His idea of revenge was the reparations that Israel would later exact" from Germany.

But Israeli President Chaim Weizmann was more receptive.

"He approved of our plans," Harmatz said, "and recommended a scientist who would make a poison for us." The scientist worked at the Sieff Institute in Rehovot -- later renamed the Weizmann Institute.

In fact, Weizmann was not explicitly identified by Harmatz in his book "From the Wings," which is slated to be published in May by the Book Guild in England. In his book, Harmatz refers to Weizmann simply as "an elder."

But Harmatz agreed with the Observer interviewer that the "elder" was actually Weizmann and that the Zionist leader was integral to Din's operation.

Kovner told Weizmann the group was planning to poison a few thousand loaves of bread intended for former SS guards who were being held at the jails and concentration camps where they had served during the war.

The story was only partly true -- that was a backup plan. Din also wanted to poison the water supply of the German city of Nuremberg. But Harmatz said he did not tell Weizmann about this plan because "we did not want to frighten" him.

Eventually, the Rehovot professor recommended by Weizmann produced an odorless, colorless substance that he said was enough to poison one night's production of bread at the bakery that supplied four prisons and concentration camps, including Dachau.

But Kovner did not make it back to Europe with his lethal cargo. Returning to Europe on a British ship, Kovner was arrested by British police, who apparently knew of the plot. The poison, concealed in condensed milk cans in Kovner's cabin, was thrown overboard by other members of the group, but Kovner was arrested and sent to an Egyptian jail.

Harmatz took over the Din leadership. To this day, he is uncertain who betrayed the plan, but suspects that it was members of the Zionist leadership who he believes feared that Din's success would jeopardize their hopes for statehood.

With their stocks of Rehovot poison lying at the bottom of the Mediterranean, Harmatz abandoned the idea of poisoning Nuremberg's water supply. The group acquired a small quantity of arsenic and reverted to the more modest bread-poisoning plan.

One Saturday night in April 1945, members of Din broke into the Stalag 13 camp at Nuremberg and, with an artist's brush, Harmatz painted 3,000 loaves of black bread with poison.

At the time, he estimated that 12,000 people would be killed. For Harmatz, the following day would be wonderful: "That morning, I thought of my family," he said. "I felt very good that a job was going to be accomplished."

The plan called for them to move to Czechoslovakia. But it was only partially successful: They made it into the country, but the poison was not as strong as expected.

Only about 300 to 400 former guards at Nazi jails and concentration camps were killed, according to Harmatz.

Soon thereafter, the organization called off its plans.

The head of the research institute at the Yad Vashem museum in Jerusalem cast doubts on Harmatz's recollection of events.

Yehuda Bauer, a retired professor of Holocaust history at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, said, "It did happen and it is likely that many people got sick. But I believe the number of people who were killed has been exaggerated."

After the state was established, Harmatz decided the burden of retribution had passed to Israel's new leaders, and he declined Kov- ner's appeals to launch a fresh revenge attempt. Kovner followed his lead and gave up dreams of vengeance, becoming one of the great poets of the new state. He died some 10 years ago.

Harmatz eventually settled in Israel. He studied law and then ran the Israeli end of a French shipping line.

Harmatz , now living in a suburb of Tel Aviv, harbors regrets.

"It didn't work out," he says. "The 300 or 400 we poisoned was nothing compared with what we really wanted to do."
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THAT IS REALLY SICK !!!!
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#216 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 02:46 AM

1. The six million figure

On 24 May 1995, the Berlin newspaper Die Tageszeitung, reporting that the Holocaust museum in Yad Vashem was planned by the Zionists as early as in 1942, expressed surprise at the fact that such a step was already being envisaged at a time when most of the future victims were still alive. As a matter of fact, the legendary six million figure was repeatedly mentioned by prominent Jews long before World War Two ended.

In December 1944, before the liberation of Auschwitz by the Red Army, Soviet Jewish propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg - who in his articles regularly exhorted the Soviet soldiers to slaughter German civilians and to rape German women - wrote (1): "Ask any German prisoner of war why his compatriots annihilated six million innocent people, and he will simply answer: Well, they were Jews." On May 31, 1944, another Jewish propagandist, Slovak Rabbi Dov Weissmandel, stated in a letter (2): "Up to this day, six times a million Jews of Europe and Russia have been exterminated." Two years earlier, in May 1942, yet another Jewish propagandist, Nahum Goldmann, who would later become president of the Jewish World Congress, predicted at an event in New York that of eight million Jews living in the German sphere of influence only two to three million would survive the war (3). According to the orthdox Holocaust story, the extermination of the Jews had just begun at that time, so how could Goldmann know the future number of victims?

Our astonishment assumes huge proportions when we learn that the six million figure already made a premature appearance in 1919. On 31 October of that year, the American Jewish newspaper The American Hebrew bewailed a "holocaust" - this word, which means "sacrifice by fire" in the Greek language, was actually used in the article! - going on in some unspecified area in Eastern Europe. The author assured that this "holocaust" had claimed, or was about to claim, six million victims. The six million figure was mentioned no less than seven times. Six is the holy number of Judaism, so we can safely assume that the alleged number of Holocaust victims is a Jewish religious myth derived either from the Thora or the Talmud.
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Number 666 now says is all.
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#217 Houlin

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 03:17 AM

It was always a gimmick, 6 million. It's in Torah, etc. and it is a number that has been fabricated. They show bodies of thousands that starved to death but then they claim that these deaths were the result of gas chambers. When you read the Nurenburg trials, you realize it is all a con. The delousing chambers were actually delousing chambers and the testimony to the contrary was not established. Yet, they used these chambers in the trials to claimed that the thousands that starved to death were really gassed. Unbelievable.

In fact, those that starved were actually killed by Americans and their air war. The reason they starved was because they aimed to destroy the supplies and logistical demographics of Germany. The trials, like the ones they will conduct against the Bath party in the future, was merely an attempt to absolve America of its own crimes and to justify the destruction of the vanquished. The trials and all the other hors.emanure the jews create do not lend credibility to the fairy tales that they manufactured to establish the holocaust.
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#218 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 03:20 AM

You are completely right Houlin.
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#219 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 03:22 AM

2. The fraudulent methods used by the orthodox Holocaust historians

After the war, the Zionists and their hirelings resorted to all kind of impudent manipulations to prove this imaginary figure. While most orthodox Holocaust historians arrrive at slightly lower numbers of Jewish victims, it seems to be an unwritten law in Western society that it is not permissible to go below the five million limit. Raul Hilberg, whose three-volume study The Destruction of the European Jews is universally recognized as the standard work on the Holocaust, puts Jewish population losses during World War Two at 5,1 million (4).

In order to demonstrate the fraudulent methods used by the orthodox Holocaust historians, I will now quote some figures from Raul Hilberg's work plus from a book written by another famous Jewish Holocaust expert, The War against the Jews by Lucy Dawidowicz (5). According to Hilberg, 2,67 million out of the total 5,1 million Jewish victims were murdered in six camps which the orthodox historians call "extermination camps", a term found in no German wartime document. This means that 2,43 million Holocaust victims must have met their fate outside these "extermination centers". But Lucy Dawidowicz tells us a completely different story, contending that no less than 5,37 million Jews were gassed in the "six killing factories" (6). Since her total death count is 5,9 million, these figures imply only 530.000 Jews died outside the "extermination camps".

Now, how do the two auguste scholars arrive at their figures? What sources do they quote? The answer is very simple: None. While both books are replete with footnotes about the most trifling things, none of the two authors makes the slightest attempt to explain what their statistics are based upon. Quite obviously, these statistics are purely arbitrary and devoid of any scientific value. Hilberg and Dawidowicz name totally different death figures for some of the "extermination camps" - for example, Dawidowicz states that no less than 1,38 million Jews were murdered at Majdanek, while Hilberg contents himself with 50.000 -, and Hilberg's figure of Jews who died outside the "extermination centers" is nearly five time higher than Dawidowics's, yet both authors claim a total death Jewish toll of between five and six million, and both are hailed as splendid historians by the media.

When following the evolution of the Holocaust yarn, we notice that the death figures given for the so-called extermination camps Auschwitz and Majdanek have been drastically reduced by the orthodox historians in the last decades. During the Nuremberg trial, the Soviets contended that no less than four million people had been murdered at Auschwitz (7) but no Western historian has ever dared to accept this ridiculous figure. Raul Hilberg claims that one million Jews plus 300.000 non-Jews died at Auschwitz, and in 1994 Jean-Claude Pressac, whom the media extolled as the world's leading expert on Auschwitz, lowered the total death toll to 631.000 (8). A similar evolution can be observed in the case of Majdanek. In the summer of 1944, after the liberation of the camp, the communists stated that 1,5 million had been murdered there, but already in 1948, the Poles lowered the figure to 360.000, and in the early ninetieth, it was further reduced to 230.000 (9). Significantly, all these modifications do not affect the sacrosanct figure of six, or five to six, million Jewish victims at all. In other words, if you have a basket with six apples in it, you can eat one, two, three or even four of them, there are still six apples left. That's Holocaust mathematics! And in several European countries, including once free Switzerland, you are obliged to believe this, otherwise you go to jail, and the media call you a racist.

Even the modified figures of the orthodox historians are still vastly exaggerated. As a matter of fact, approximately 150.000 people, probably just over half of whom were Jewish, perished at Auschwitz, as Italian revisionist Carlo Mattogno will show in a study exclusively based upon German wartime documents (10). The combined number of Jewish and non-Jewish victims at Majdanek was about 42.500, as Mattogno has demonstrated in a book he wrote together with me (11). Of course, even these real figures are frightfully high, but it should be remembered that Anglo-American terror bombers murdered more German civilians in one single night than prisoners died at Auschwitz and Majdanek together during the whole war, and that the main cause of death in the camps were epidemic diseases the Germans were unable to control. The mass deportation of Jews to forced labour camps and the bad conditions prevailing in these camps were the result of total war, and in total war, people suffer and die - not only Jews. It should not be forgotten that tens of thousands of Catholic Poles and many thousands of Russian prisoners of war also died at Auschwitz and Majdanek, and that between 60.000 and 80.000 German civilians were murdered after the war in Polish communist concentration camps, often after hideous tortures. As Jewish author John Sack has documented in his famous book An eye for an eye, almost all of these authentic death camps were run by Jews (12).
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#220 Saddam

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Posted 05 May 2003 - 03:44 AM

3. The Jewish world population

Somebody unacquainted with the difficulties of the problem might assume that the real number of Jewish victims can be easily calculated by comparing pre-war and post-war population statistics, but this is not the case, for dependable statistics simply do not exist. To start with, the number of Jewish victims naturally depends on the definition of the word "Jewish", and there is no generally recognized such definition. Are the Jews are race, a nation or a religion? All three answers are partially true, but only partially. Can a person who was born into a Jewish familiy still be considered to be a Jew even if he has totally renounced the Jewish religion and tradition? I do not know the answer. Furthermore, regardless of how you define a Jew, the statistics about the Jewish world population are very contradictory and suspect from the very beginning because the figures are more often than not furnished by the Jewish organizations, which evidently have to respect the Holocaust dogma according to which roughy one third of the Jews were exterminated during World War Two.

The leading pre-war expert on Jewish population statistics, Arthur Ruppin, stated that there were 16,7 million Jews in the world in 1939 (13). For the immediate postwar years, the World Almanac gave the following figures: 15,19 million in 1945 and 15,7 million in the following four years, from 1946 to 1949. But it its 1949 issue, the World Almanac quoted the figures furnished by the American Jewish commitee according to which there had been 16,6 million Jews in 1939 and only 11,2 million in 1947 (14). On the other hand, in an article published in the Jewish-owned New York Times in early 1948, Hanson Baldwin, a military expert and specialist on Palestine, stated that there were between 15 and 18 million Jews worldwide (15). As you see, the Jewish world population statistics enable you as easily to prove that the Holocaust took place as they allows you to prove that it didn't; it just depends upon which statistics you prefer to believe. It's not in these statistics that we are going to find the answer to our question how many Jews really perished as a result of German policy.
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