Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo

Quotes - Jewish and American.


  • Please log in to reply
431 replies to this topic

#281 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 12 May 2003 - 11:07 PM

Comforted by the financial flux which flooded into Israel:

1 - From German and Austrian "reparations";

2 - Because of unconditional American generosity;

3 - From payments from the Diaspora;

the Israeli leaders could consider, in foreign policy, the most ambitious aims of a "greater Israel".

We have an accurate testimony from an article of the revue "Kivounim" (Orientations) published in Jerusalem by "The World Zionist Organization" on "the strategic plans of Israel for the 80's":

"As a centralized body, Egypt is already a corpse, especially if one takes account of the ever more violent confrontation between muslims and christians. Its division into distinct geographical provinces must be our political objective for the 90's, on the western front.

Once Egypt has been thus dislocated and deprived of central power, countries like Libya, Sudan and others farther away will experience the same dissolution. The formation of a Coptic state in Upper Egypt, and of small regional entities of little size is the key to a historic development which has been slowed down by the peace agreement, but is inescapable in the long term.

In spite of appearances, the western front presents fewer problems than the one in the east. The partition of Lebanon into five provinces... Will prefigure what will happen all over the Arab world. The disintegration of Syria and Iraq into regions, based on ethnic or religious criteria, must be, in the long term, a primary goal for Israel, the first step being the destruction of the military power of these states.

The ethnic structures of Syria expose it to a dismantling which could lead to the creation of a Shiite state along the coast, a Sunni state in the Aleppo region and another one in Damascus, and a Druze entity which might hope to constitute its own state - perhaps on our Golan - in any case with Houran and the north of Jordan... Such a state would be, in the long term, a guarantee of peace and security in the region. It is an objective which is already within our reach.

Oil-rich, and victim of internal strife, Iraq is in the Israeli firing line. Its dissolution would be, for us, more important than Syria's, because it is Iraq which, in the short term, represents the more serious threat for Israel."

Source: "Kivounim", Jerusalem, No. 14, February 1982, pp. 49 - 59
  • 0

#282 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 12 May 2003 - 11:09 PM

For the realization of this enormous project the Israeli leaders had at their disposal limitless American aid. Of the 507 planes which they had on the eve of the invasion of Lebanon, 457 came from the U.S. thanks to gifts and loans sanctioned by Washington. The American lobby took it on itself to obtain the necessary means even if this meant going against the national interest, under pressure from the Zionist lobby.

When the objectives of the Kivounim plan were too far away and the confrontation too risky, the Israeli lobby succeeded in having the job done by the U.S. The war against Iraq is a striking example.

"Two powerful pressure groups push the U.S. to opening of hostilities.

1 - The "Jewish lobby", because the elimination of Saddam Hussein would do away with the threat of the most powerful Arab country.. The American Jews play a key role in the North American media. The permanent state of compromise between the President and Congress leads the White House to pay serious attention to their entreaties.

2 - The "business lobby"... has got to the stage of thinking that war could relaunch the economy. Didn't the Second World War, and the enormous orders which it generated for the U.S put an end to the crisis of 1929 out of which it hadn't really emerged? Didn't the Korean War provoke a new boom?

Oh happy war which would bring prosperity back to America..."

Source: Alain Peyrefitte, "Le Figaro", 5 November 1990
  • 0

#283 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 13 May 2003 - 03:30 AM

Thanks for comments Saddam, I hope I have said something useful.

Locally in this village I find it quite amazing that so many people are proud of being ignorant. There is the most enormous and outrageous press distortion going on, and it is like all the locals are hypnotized. I can post emails to my local MP - result = no reply. You would have thought our glorious political parties were beavering away collecting information from the internet as fast as they could. Instead you see apathy.

All this apathy makes me feel very depressed.

One wonders if it is possible to stop this. There does not seem to be any will amongst us. (us=most of mankind)
  • 0

#284 redmike

redmike

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 13 May 2003 - 06:18 PM

Edited from a BlackCloudSky Post on UK Media.
(Here is the most enormous and outrageous press distortion going on, and it is like all the locals are hypnotized!)

Responce:
Come to the USA and you will find the mass media follows the
party line and eats up the goverment propaganda hook line & sinka and i have to watch the BBC on a cable channel to get a different perspective to world events i also checked out Aljazeera
and some Russion & German Stations during the Iraq War but few Americans have accsess or feel it is treason to get there news this way what a change in our values it is kind of scary?
  • 0

#285 Houlin

Houlin

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 01:55 AM

Perspective distorts reality:

For the past two weeks, I had all the avatars shut down. When I read your posts, I was fascinated by the glow of intellegence that flowed from your typewriter. Well, last night, when I turned all the avatars back on, I am confronted by blond wiggling her bosom at me and it is really hard for me to concentrate on what you are saying.

These distractions are applicable to the state of affairs in everyday matters regarding the Middle East. Perhaps you understand?
  • 0

#286 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:18 AM

Houlin, I almost totally agree with you. Part of me concentrates entirely on the text. Unfortunately another part of me is subject to the same distraction as you. And another part of me might like it.

I wish I knew what Saddam looked like. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking.

You can always turn off the avatars again. On the other hand perhaps distractions are sometimes a good thing.
  • 0

#287 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:22 AM

Redmike, Thanks for the reply. I have spent a great deal of time trawling the internet and digging; time I can ill afford, but I felt so strongly about the Iraq war I felt I had to do something at least. Basically it seemed so totally illogical for the USA & UK to get into a potentially perillous position which would not be easy to get out of. What I found is I guess a fairly traumatic shock. I suppose realization was progressive from before Christmass over a period of time, so perhaps I am being unfair to other people. Gradually I realised that on Islam on line there are a lot of pictures of Palestinians at funerals of dead children, and we certainly do not see it in Rupert Murdochs press, but we do hear about Islamic Jihad, and Suicide bombers. Further it became apparent to me that there is far more news on the internet than appears in our papers.

So now I have over 1.5Gb of not very well organized saved HTML files, and 522 links in my favorites.

Perhaps it is too much to grasp the extent of media manipulation in a short time. In fact it is something that has sneaked up under us. Unfortunatly it seems we now admire the rich and powerful. One has to say that this is some thing that has been allowed to happen. Again perhaps I ought not to blame people because they are only human. A human being is only able to perceive one topic at a time. They all too readily fall into the trap of letting one topic absorb all their attention, without asking if it is important.

One really good Web-Site I strongly recommend is
http://www.israelshamir.net/
Some recommended pages
http://www.israelsha...hadowofzog.html
http://www.israelsha...nds/truth.shtml
http://www.israelsha...s/zionism.shtml

A good startpoint source of links is
http://www.betterwor...s.org/index.htm

As regards regular news I use
http://www.reuters.co.uk/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
http://news.google.com/
http://www.alertnet.org/
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/

A good site for debate
http://www.opendemocracy.net/

For Palestine
http://electronicint...a.net/new.shtml
http://www.palsolidarity.org/

For Zionism a good start point is
http://www.netureikarta.org/
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Good sites on the history of the Israeli-Palestine conflict is
http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
http://www.pbs.org/w...east/index.html
http://www.thestruggle.org/index.html
http://www.thestruggle.org/Trap.html

Many other links I have got by going from one link to another, or going to the home page and seeing what other links are present.

For info on people which is more revealing.
http://www.fpp.co.uk...5/Murdoch2.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk...le_lowdown.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk...S_Zionists.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk...irut200202.html

For Bush's religious beliefs & etc
http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/2921345.stm
http://www.bushwatch.com/bush.htm
http://www.accuracy.org/

The Unauthorised biography of George Bush Senior
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

You say our BBC is reasonable, but......
http://www.informati...article2859.htm
The photographs tell the story; (Toppling of Saddams Statue)
file:///C:/My Documents/My Webs/2clearing/article2842.htm

Also of course check out Isalmic sites
http://www.islamonli...ish/index.shtml
http://www.muslimwakeup.com/
http://www.twf.org/index.html

Also look at the report on Enron
http://www.scoop.co....0304/S00031.htm
http://www.sandersre...3/CAF012003.htm

For a good forum of September 11 look at
http://www.cooperati...org/index2.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
http://www.itszone.co.uk/

Another interesting site
http://www.gulufuture.com/

Which I hope is enough to get on with.

Saddams are helpful to me as it confrims that I am not imagining this.

If one wants to reduce terrorism look at Israel Shamirs Web-Site. I think the problem of the western media must be tackled. We must know what is going on in the world. Part of the truth is not the whole truth. We now have communications that can bypass the media. We should use them. Further if we do not want to be manipulated we have got to stop reacting in an animal like way.

Conversely it has to be made very plain that any person carring out terrorism or suicide bombing is playing into the zionists hands. It is sad but that person has thrown his life away to help his enemies.

Further I think we have to seriously question our religious beliefs and not take them for granted. In researching this I have found that many of our religious beliefs are more constructed than real.

One thing I can say. The more I have l have learnt the more I realise how profound the parables of Jesus are. My simple religion is to try to do what he told us to do. "To love one another as we love ourselves" "To do unto others as we would be done by" "Blessed is he that loves his enemies" I have to say that I am not really very good at this, and I do find it difficult.

One other thing. If we do not know that life is sacred. If we do not recognise that we have a soul, and that we are real, and that we all matter, where are we?

A good site on the origins of Christianity is
http://www.pbs.org/w...shows/religion/

I think we all have to make up our minds that we, the human race do not want war, and we will not be provoked into carring this out. We will not be manipulated any more. We are not laboratory animals any more.

Written before post above, while offline.
  • 0

#288 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:27 AM

On reflection I think I like the avatar. Its got attitude, and I've got used to it.
  • 0

#289 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 07:15 PM

Houlin posted :

Saddam:

Why does not the US force Israel to abide by resolution 242. Why are they instead making alternate proposals for peace and promoting terror?
________________________________________

I think that everything has to do with Israeli ( Jewish ) lobby promoting "status quo" regarding Palestinian problem. All American top politicians who want to get re-elected have to "sing" to their tunes.


BTW : I really like my Blondie avatar. I don't wanna change it.
BCSky , thanks for the links.
  • 0

#290 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 07:25 PM

The Israeli-Zionist Lobby in the United States
by Roger Garaudy - cont.


"It is difficult to overestimate the political influence of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (A.I.P.A.C.)... which has a budget which quadrupled between 1982 and 1986 (1,600,000 dollars in 1982 ; 6,900,000 dollars in 1988)."

Source: "Wall Street Journal", 24 June 1987

The Zionist leaders didn't hide the role of their lobby. Ben Gurion stated clearly: "When a Jew, in America or in South Africa, talks to his Jewish companions about 'our' government, he means the government of Israel."

Source: "Rebirth and Destiny of Israel", 1954, p. 489

At the 23rd congress of the World Zionist Organization he stipulates that the duty of a jew abroad includes "the collective obligation of every Zionist organization in various countries to help the Jewish State unconditionally and in all circumstances even if such a stance is in contradiction with the authorities of their respective nations."

Source: Ben Gurion: "Tasks and Character of a Modern Zionist", "Jerusalem Post", 17 August 1952 and "Jewish Telegraphic Agency", 8 August 1951

This confusion of Judaism as a religion (worthy of respect like all others) with political zionism including unconditional allegiance to the State of Israel (substituting for the God of Israel), can only feed anti-semitism.

The State Department was forced to react. In a letter addressed to the "American Council for Judaism", made public by the latter on 7 May 1964, Secretary of State Talbot, referring to the very principles of the American Constitution, regarding which the demands of the Zionist leaders constituted a challenge, reminded us that his country"recognizes the State of Israel as a sovereign state, and the citizenship of the State of Israel. It "recognizes no other sovereignty or citizenship in this regard. It doesn't recognize any politico-legal relationship founded on a religious identification of American citizens. It doesn't discriminate between American citizens on religious grounds. Consequently, it should be clear that the State Department doesn't consider the concept of a "Jewish people" to be a concept of international law."

Source: Quoted by Georges Friedman in "Fin du peuple juif", (Gallimard, 1956), Idees poche, p. 292
  • 0

#291 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 07:27 PM

A strictly platonic declaration, besides, as this obvious legal reminder was followed up by no measure against the lobby.

The Pollard affair gives us an example.

In November 1985 an American Zionist militant, Jonathan Pollard, an analyst at navy headquarters, was arrested while taking home some secret documents. Interrogated by the F.B.I., he admits having received 50,000 dollars since the beginning of 1984 for sending these documents to Israel.

"The Pollard affair didn't come out of nowhere. It is in keeping with the current system of American-Israeli relations, more and more unwholesome, characterized by an excessive dependence which favorizes brazen attitudes.

This situation was created in 1981, when the Reagan administration gave Israel what was interpreted as a "carte blanche" to its military adventurism, under the pretext of self-defense. The first result of this was the invasion of Lebanon.

...It was predictable that such complacency from Washington would encourage arrogance in Jerusalem. It is well known that ties of close dependence sow resentment and aggression. In Israel's case, this resentment takes ill-considered forms ; the attack on Tunis is one. It is possible that the Pollard affair is another."

Source: "Washington Post", 5 December 1985


"For decades American Jews have been trying hard to convince American public opinion that their unconditional support for Israel didn't effect their loyalty to the U.S.. It now seems that it will be difficult to trust them on this point, and those who talk about "double allegiance" will find an understanding ear."

Source: "Haaretz", 1 December 1985
  • 0

#292 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 08:29 PM

There is no shortage of examples where the israeli-Zionist lobby succeeds in imposing on the U.S. an attitude which is unfavorable to American interests but useful for Israeli policy.

Here are some examples:

The president of the Senate Foreign Affairs Commission, Senator Fullbright, decided to summon the main Zionist leaders before a committee which threw some light on their underground activities. He summed up the results of his enquiry in a "Face the Nation" interview on C.B.S., 7 October 1973: "The Israelis control policy in Congress and in the Senate". He added:"Our colleagues in the Senate, about 70% of them, make up their minds more under the pressure of a lobby than from their own vision of what they consider to be the principles of liberty and justice."

In the next elections Fullbright lost his seat as senator.

Since Senator Fullbright's enquiry, the Zionist "lobby" has continued to strengthen its grip on American policy. In his book, "They Dare to Speak Out", (published in 1985 by Lawrence Hill and Co.) Paul Findley, who had a seat in the U.S. Congress for 22 years, described the current working and power of the Zionist "lobby". This veritable "branch of the Israeli government" controls Congress and Senate, the Presidency of the Republic, the State Department and the Pentagon as well as the media and it exercises its influence in the universities as well as in the churches.

There is no shortage of examples showing how the Israelis' demands take priority over the interests of the U.S.: On 3 October 1984 the House of Representatives repealed, by a majority of 98%, all limitations to exchanges between Israel and the U.S. in spite of the unfavorable report of the Ministry of Commerce and the opposition of all the unions (p. 31). Every year, whatever the restrictions on other areas of the budget, credit for Israel is increased. The degree of espionage is such that the most secret dossiers fall into the hands of the Israeli government. Adlai Stevenson (former presidential candidate in the U.S.) wrote in the winter '75 - '76 issue of "Foreign Affairs": "Practically no decision concerning Israel can be taken, or even discussed, at executive level, without being immediately known about by the Israeli government." (p. 126) In spite of the refusal of the Secretary of State for Defense, founded on American law, to deliver to Israel, during its offensive in Lebanon, fragmentation bombs (a weapon used against civilians), the Israelis get them from Reagan and use them on two occasions in Beirut to massacre the population. (p. 143)
  • 0

#293 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 08:58 PM

In 1973 the American admiral Thomas Moorer (head of combined military H.Q.) testifies: The Israeli military attache in Washington, Mordecai Gur (future commander-in-chief of the Israeli forces), asks for planes armed with a very sophisticated missile (called "Maverick") from the U.S.. Admiral Moorer remembers that he said to Gur:"I cannot deliver these planes to you. We only have one squadron. And we swore to congress that we needed them." Gur said to me, "Give us the planes. As for Congress, I'll take care of it." That's how", the Admiral adds, "the only squadron equipped with Mavericks went to Israel." (p. 161)

On 8 June 1967 the Israeli air force and navy bombard the American ship "Liberty" (equipped with very sophisticated detectors) to prevent it from detecting their invasion plans for the Golan. 34 sailors are killed and 171 wounded. The ship is overflown for 6 hours and bombarded for 70 minutes. The Israeli government excuses itself for this "error" and the matter is closed. It is only in 1980 that one of the eyewitnesses, Ennes, an officer on the bridge of the Liberty, can establish the truth, destroying the "official" version of the "error", ratified by the "commission of enquiry" at the time, chaired by Admiral Isaac Kid. Ennes proves that the attack was deliberate and that it was a question of murder. Admiral Thomas Moorer, while Ennes' book was smothered by the Zionist "lobby", explains why this crime was kept quiet: "President Johnson feared the reaction of the Jewish electorate..." . The Admiral adds: "The American people would go crazy if they knew what had happened." (p. 179)

In 1980 Adlai Stevenson, having sponsored an amendment demanding a reduction of 10% in military aid to Israel in order to force them to stop setting up colonies in the occupied territories, reminded us that 43% of American aid went to Israel (3 million inhabitants) for its arms, to the detriment of 3 billion people starving in the world.

Adlai Stevenson concluded,"The Prime Minister of Israel has a lot more influence over U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East than he has in his own country." (p. 92)

Any thing goes for the Zionist lobby: from financial pressure to blackmail, from boycotting the media and publishers to death threats.

Paul Findley concludes: "Whoever criticizes Israeli policy can expect painful and incessant reprisals and even the loss of his means of existence by the pressure of the Israeli "lobby". The President is afraid of it. Congress gives in to all its demands. The most prestigious universities see to it that in their programs there is nothing which opposes it. The media giants and the military chiefs give in to its pressure." (p. 315)

Source: Hearings, Part 9, 23 May, 1963
  • 0

#294 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 09:05 PM

"Whoever criticizes Israeli policy can expect painful and incessant reprisals and even the loss of his means of existence by the pressure of the Israeli "lobby". The President is afraid of it. Congress gives in to all its demands. The most prestigious universities see to it that in their programs there is nothing which opposes it. The media giants and the military chiefs give in to its pressure."
____________________________________________

Isn't that scary or what ???. If nothing changes Americans are doomed.
  • 0

#295 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 09:49 PM

I'm afraid it's too scary for some Americans even to reply to my post. The best thing to them is treat this post as a conspiracy theory as American Zionists like to do or laugh it off ( sometimes it's a sign of being scared but not admitting that ).
  • 0

#296 Houlin

Houlin

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:38 PM

It's scary. I'm scared.
  • 0

#297 Saddam

Saddam

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4071 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:42 PM

Houlin , be scared. It's OK. It takes a man to admit that and an ignorant to deny that.
  • 0

#298 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:56 AM

Saddam & Houlin, Those are just some of my links. I just put a few of what I thought were the better ones up for Redmike. Took me far longer than I thought it would. But I have tried to get my info from different sources as far as possible so I am more certain of it. But it takes such a long time. Webcopier (free version) can be very useful to copy a whole web-site to read off line. e.g. History of Israeli-Zionist conflict.

I came across the Liberty site. USS LIBERTY Memorial - http://ussliberty.org/ Should have posted that on the list of links for redmike.
"
This web site is dedicated to the memory of thirty-four fine young men who gave their lives on June 8, 1967, defending the USS Liberty against a sustained air and sea attack by the armed forces of the State of Israel

During the Six Day War between Israel and the Arab States, the American intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked for 75 minutes in international waters by Israeli aircraft and motor torpedo boats. Thirty-four men died and 172 were wounded.

Further comment not needed. Very worrying, very frightening. Like I said; what are we up against. Much more than zionism I suspect.
"
"
SIGN OUR PETITION
Please sign our petition calling for a Congressional Investigation
The attack on our ship is the only major maritime incident in American history not investigated by Congress.
Your signature could help change that.
"
Just thought; Surely this would convince people. But nothing seems to. Which is strange.

What I cant understand is how everybody can act like they are so hypnotised.

Your Quote //Admiral Thomas Moorer, while Ennes' book was smothered by the Zionist "lobby", explains why this crime was kept quiet: "President Johnson feared the reaction of the Jewish electorate..." . The Admiral adds: "The American people would go crazy if they knew what had happened."//

What is he freightened of? Because it doesn't quite make sense does it. What I mean is; it would be very rocky, but one could survive that if handled properly. If that had got out, the jewish electorate would not be in a very good position to have a say. They would be having to eat humble pie. One would suspect a lot of the jewish electorate might be very disturbed by it, with confused loyalties, in the same way the islamic population have difficulties over Palestine. I would have thought that handled properly that could have been used to turn Jews away from Zionism. Lyndon B. Johnson was not freightened to fight the Vietnam war in spite of continuing protests, so he was not without determination.

There seems to be a lack of will to tackle it.
  • 0

#299 redmike

redmike

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:41 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saddam
[B]"Whoever criticizes Israeli policy can expect painful and incessant reprisals and even the loss of his means of existence by the pressure of the Israeli "lobby". The President is afraid of it. Congress gives in to all its demands. The most prestigious universities see to it that in their programs there is nothing which opposes it. The media giants and the military chiefs give in to its pressure."
____________________________________________
Repy:
The Lobby has a very short memory and has forgotten the Mcarthy era(1950s) when the Rosenbergs were put to death
and the USA was one of the most racist countries on the face of the earth let the Zionists go to bed with the Christion Right
but the sheets will be soaked in blood or maby they do not
care as long as the blood is Palestinian.
  • 0

#300 BlackCloudSky

BlackCloudSky

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 02:01 AM

Some more on USS Liberty: - http://ussliberty.org/
Go to New and special - http://ussliberty.org/newstuff.htm , and navigate to
http://ussliberty.org/margolis.txt
http://ussliberty.org/washrp96.txt **!!**Check this**!!**
http://ussliberty.org/schneider.txt
http://ussliberty.org/submarine.txt
http://ussliberty.org/lewis.txt
All or most of this material is interesting.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2016 Pravda.Ru