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#41 Houlin

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:35 PM

Do you have a reference for your quote of George Kennan? Like the title of a book or a speach?

George Kennan was a very great and honest writer and his works are brilliant. Whichever way we look at him, he did lose sight of morality and legalities. He was working for pigs so I guess we could not expect that his works would contain a sense of morality and a sense of place or social justice. He is totally devoid of humanity. His only object was world power. For America.

Power is not a bad thing in the right hands. But in the wrong hands, it is slavery, brutality, and doom. We have the excercise of it in Israel and all mankind should pause to see it excercised by the Israelis and likewise the Americans. We should all witness the use of power in the wrong hands. We should know that these two states must never hold power because its holders and its heirs are monsters. Their fears of the Hollowcaust or their fear of Terrorism are mere fronts and excuses to wage total war against the world. They pretend to care for law and order and justice but these also are fraudulent. They care not for anything or anyone and would kill you all. They have a history of inhumanity around the world and that inhumanity should never be forgotten when they cry about human rights or violations of resolutions. According to one guy in Baghdad, they have special operation groups going around the cities burning down libraries, schools, hospitals, museums, and killing anyone that might get in their way. They work at night along with the regular military. I don't know if this is true but if it is, it is only another example of their misuse of power.

You must never pay a dime to them unless forced to do so in taxes or any other way. You must also never give a jew or an american a break, no matter what. Most of all, you should boycott amerricans and jews totally and make everyone you know do the same. The english race and its jews must be suppressed for all time. I don't know why Bashir even allows embassies from America. There is no good that can come from dealing with these monsters. Their history repeats itself overr and over and over. You must prepare for total war. There is no other solution. Until these nations are put down, you will never have peace. Read Sun Tzu and Mao but most of all Vladimir Illivich.
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#42 Saddam

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:32 AM

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." -- Golda Meir Statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." -- Golda Meir (quoted in Chapter 13 of The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace by Alfred Lilienthal )
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#43 Saddam

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:43 AM

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." -- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)

"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism, no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off." -- Yesha'ayahu Ben-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without A People" 1997, p.98)
__________________________________________

That's what Zionism is all about.

To Houlin : I'll try to look up that reference to George Kennan if not today then surely tomorrow. Take care !! And remember he < Kennan > said that in 1948 < McCarthy era >. People change.
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#44 Saddam

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 02:12 AM

'Until you know who has lent what to whom, you know nothing whatever of politics, you know nothing whatever of history, you know nothing of international wrangles.'

- Ezra Pound
Expatriate American poet, writer
1885-1972
speaking of the destructive effects of parasitical banking, or usury,
on national and international politics
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#45 HAZ

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 04:04 AM

Saddam, subversive statement such as this by Ezra, landed him in prison cous....lets be verrry careful, or this could be the fate of today's American writters! :P
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#46 Saddam

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 07:10 PM

HAZ , thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.



"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism." -- Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister (p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987).


"The very point of Labor's Zionist program is to have as much land as possible and as few Arabs as possible!" --Yitzhak Navon ("moderate" ex-Israeli president and a leading labor party politician.) Cited on p.179 of Nur Masalha's A Land without a People who cites Bernard Avishai's The Tragedy of Zionism 1985 p.340.


THAT'S WHY ZIONISM SUCKS !!!!
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#47 Houlin

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:21 PM

Rabbi Meir Kahane surrounded by JDL nazi black t-shirts said

"never tell the goy the truth"
"Kick out all arabs..no matter"

I heard this in a synagoge with my own ears when he came to raise money for his election.

He was a devotee of Sharon and Golden?
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#48 Saddam

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 06:50 PM

Zionism emerged in response to rising anti-Semitism as a politically secular movement declaring an incompatibility between Jews and other nations, and that anti-Semitism was unavoidable; it went further to categorizing Jews as a nation/race, therefore making Jews as people of their nation, Israel, instead of their respective countries. From this the need for a homeland arose. Most Jews and others were deceived by Zionism's stated overt purpose: to make a homeland for the persecuted Jews. Very few realized that this entailed making another people homeless since Palestine was inhabitted. Therefore, to perpetuate the deception, it was necessary for the Zionists to make up myths, such as the land was empty and that the Palestinians "didn't exist", or that there were people their, but they left willfuly in 1948 at the suggestion of Arab leaders, or at best, that the Palestinians existed but were backward with stagnant culture and Zionism brought them progress and prosperity (similar arguments were made by all colonialists). To hide its colonialist nature, the Zionists employed sugar coating, most famous of which was that the Jews were returning home, and blurred the difference between Judaism the religion, and Zionism, the political movement defining Jews as a nation, and displacing the Palestinians.
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#49 Saddam

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 06:56 PM

In 1947-48, Palestinians became victims
Charley Reese, July 26, 2001
Let's play let's pretend.

Pretend you live in Miami-Dade County, Fla., and you evacuate the area because a bad storm is bearing down on it.

After the storm passes, you drive back but are met by military roadblocks. "You can't come back," you're told.

"What do you mean I can't come back? I have a home and business there," you say.

"Not anymore," the soldier says. "All of your property and possessions have been declared abandoned property and now will be used by us. So turn around. You've got 49 other states you can live in, but you're never going to the home you abandoned."

Now, let's pretend that after NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia, the Yugoslavian government said it was willing to negotiate a cease-fire, but the Albanian refugees could not return to Kosovo. Do you think the United States would have agreed to that? I don't think so. I think the United States would have said to Yugoslavia the right of refugees to return to their homes is non-negotiable and, if you try to stop them, you'll have to get through us first.

Well, this is exactly what happened to 700,000 Palestinians in 1947-48. By what one journalist called a "psychological warfare campaign punctuated with some well-timed massacres," the Israelis drove these people out of their homes and villages with nothing much but the clothes on their backs.

Then, at a peace conference, the Israelis said first off that no refugees would be allowed to return nor would they be compensated for any property lost. That was Israel's original sin. It was also our original sin because the United States government did nothing and it should have insisted on the refugees' return.

Zionists, however, were not acting in an arbitrary manner. The Zionist ideology, on which the current state of Israel is based, demands a Jewish state defined as a state with a Jewish majority, a Jewish government and Jewish laws. Small, non-Jewish minorities can be tolerated, though in practice in Israel they have been treated like second-class people. But a plural state is out of the question.

The problem the Zionists faced in 1947-48 was this: Despite their best efforts, they had not succeeded in persuading a sufficient number of Jews to emigrate to Palestine. Consequently, even in the territory allotted by the partition of Palestine to the Jews, there were so many Palestinian Arabs that the early Zionists knew they should soon equal or exceed the Jews in number.

In 1919, there were 57,000 Jews and 533,000 Arabs in Palestine. The Jews owned about 2 percent of the land. In 1946, the imbalance remained. There were 608,000 Jews and 1.2 million Arabs. In 1946, Jews owned only 7 percent of Palestine.

An Arab majority was unacceptable to Zionist ideology, so they practiced ethnic cleansing.

So, for the same reason they drove them out in the first place, they could not let them back in. The Arab governments said if the refugees could not return, then they would not sign a peace treaty. This original sin -- the disposition of 700,000 Palestinians -- bred the conflict which rages to this day and will continue to rage until the Palestinians get justice or everybody on both sides are dead.

I know that it's difficult. The Israelis have done a superb job of creating a racist stereotype of Palestinians in the minds of most Americans. But try, for a moment, to put yourself in their shoes back in 1947-48.

You had a family, a farm or a business or shop. You had friends and relatives in a village where your ancestors had lived for centuries. Then, in the blink of an eye, you are torn from your roots and cast into a foreign country with no possessions, no money and no state you can call your own.

These people and their descendants still live in those camps, at least those the Israelis haven't killed during their periodic bombing and shelling. These are the people Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak told Yasser Arafat that he must agree can never return or be compensated for their losses. That alone would have prevented Arafat from signing the agreement.

It is this expulsion, not the establishment of the state of Israel, that Palestinians mean when they speak of the "Catastrophe." It was not only a cruel act of ethnic cleansing, but it was one of the greatest robberies in the history of mankind. Imagine if you could suddenly gain ownership of Miami-Dade, with all its businesses, inventories, bank accounts, houses, farms, and crops. Palestine was no Miami-Dade County, but the Palestinian possessions were nevertheless quite a pile of loot for the Israelis.

This happened, by the way, before Jews left the Arab countries. It most defintely was not a population transfer. The Palestinian victims of ethnic cleansing had nothing to do with what happened to Jews in other Arab countries later.

Copyright ? 2001, Orlando Sentinel
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#50 Saddam

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 07:57 PM

"IF" they had really killed 6 milllion jews(lunacy)there would not
be enough jews left to create a state like Israel,on the other hand
without the 'Holocaust'there would have never been a Israel.
___________________________________________

Only "IF"....

I remember when I started my school < late 60's > there were only 1.8 million Jews who died in WWII of all causes. Later on every decade the numbers were going higher and higher up. I know it's a BS as well as you do.
Many people suspect that Holocaust was artificially created by worldwide Zionism to eliminate Jewish non-Zionists and create Israel. WHO KNOWS ???
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#51 Saddam

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 08:11 PM

The French , thanks for your good encouraging words. I'll try to keep my post alive for many days to come.

DOWN WITH ZIONISM !!!!
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#52 Hansel

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 08:54 PM

"It doesn't matter at all, what government the country has. In reality the power is held by those, who own and control the financial assets of the country and the mass media. All Medias are completely judaized." - Ahmed Ram

http://abbc.com/isla...ish/english.htm
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#53 Saddam

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 10:04 PM

Hansel , thanks for the link. I've saved it for later.
Happy Easter to you !!!


The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs' inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists' intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn't matter. The Arabs' opposition to Zionism wasn't based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930's and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic "land without people for a people without land" was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
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#54 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 01:01 AM

Every country has its own myths, or stories that have no place in reality but are used to propagate certain images that might misrepresent the facts and events that have actually taken place. Of course the purpose is to create an unblemished picture of the source, especially if involved in certain immoral or illegal acts, that might compromise its image in the eyes of the world. Once the myth has served its purpose, it was normal to discard it, lest researchers and independent observers might unveil its falsehood. What makes Israel's myth a unique case is not its normal propagation of the good image while hiding the evil, as much as such myths had become an integral part of Israel's own history. Therefore, false information about the "glorious" history of Israel has become the "real" history taught to the next Israeli generation so as to instill false pride in all the history of the State. In other words, the Zionists were so pleased with their unchallenged success in propagating these myths to the Western world that they decided that such myths should also become an integral part of Israel's own contemporary history.

We have heard that if one repeats a certain lie so many times he would start believing it himself. Why should the new Israeli generation be allowed to feel ashamed of the inhuman acts of their forefathers in Palestine when the other alternative is to aquire "false" pride in what the early Zionists have already achieved? Since the whole world started to believe these myths, why not their own people? Talking to many Israelis on this issue, I found out that many of them were not disingenuous about believing these myths, because when presented with documented proof to the contrary, they reluctantly accepted the new version of history, after passing through a transient shocking experience. One has to recognize, though, that it would be very difficult for anyone to change the attractive image of his forefathers from the courageous pioneers who fought very hard to establish a "legitimate and moral" objective called Israel, into the real grotesque and evil image of a group of bandits who were involved in the immoral and cruel acts of the unjust uprooting of the indigenous Palestinians from the lands they lived in since Biblical times.
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#55 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 01:56 AM

Myths, therefore, were needed to justify the biggest land grab in the 20th century and to dispel the justified grievances of the victims in the eyes of the world. Myths were needed in this case to justify the forced evictions of the indigenous Palestinians from their homes while replacing them with foreign entities swarming from all parts of the world. Such Israeli myths sheltered many flagrant violations of international laws embodied in the United Nations Charter, the Geneva Conventions and The Hague Conference on human rights.

Some of these myths maintain that Palestine was the land without people (no indigenous Palestinians) and should be given to the people (the Jews) without the land or it was the Palestinians who sold their lands to the early Zionists and so they have no legal claim to an already "sold" land. Another popular myth is that the small Zionist forces were able to defeat the invading mighty Arab armies who started the war against the "peaceful" Zionists on 15 May 1948 with huge armies that outnumbered the Zionist forces at a ratio of 20 to 1, or the myth that purports that because the Palestinians rejected the UN Partition on Palestine, it follows that they alone should bear the horrible consequences of such rejection. Of course there were many other myths about the wars of 1967 and 1973, but it would be appropriate to explore a few of these myths so as to show that honesty was not exactly the preferred approach used by the classical Israeli and Zionist historians.
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#56 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:14 AM

I do not need to elaborate on the first myth, as the facts later dropped this myth from any serious consideration when over 800,000 Palestinians were evicted from the land "without people" under the astounded eyes of the world! How could such a huge number of people come out from the "land without people"? As to the lie that the Palestinians have sold their lands myth, it is debunked forcefully by the Israelis' own sources when we realize that since the beginning of the century the feverish campaign to buy land in Palestine by the Jewish Agency (JA), the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and private sources has failed to purchase more than one-half per cent of the land over a period of 50 years of continuous efforts. According to JNF sources, the increase of Jewish ownership of land has only increased from 7% to 7?% (discounting the 2% State land controlled by the British Mandate) (1).

This failure has been the rationale used by Menachim Begin to justify the largest heinous massacre he perpetrated at Deir Yassin, and the secret instructions given by Ben-Gurion to commanders in the field to execute the systematic expulsions of the Palestinian civilians (2). It should be obvious to any neutral observer that with the exuberant prices offered, it would be very hard to believe that Palestinians would sell their land for such good prices only to end up living in the sub-human conditions of the refugee camps (3).
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#57 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 04:17 AM

As to the claim that it was the huge Arab armies who invaded Israel without any provocation on 15 May 1948 and Israel had "no choice" but to defend itself against this "aggression", it should not be hard to expose such a Zionist claim for what it really is when we realize that by the time Israel declared its "Statehood", it already occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages in the process to make sure they would never return or be repatriated. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. Actually, such Israeli systematic occupations and expulsions forced the Arab governments to react and intervene, albeit a bit too late.

The major black "hole" in Israel's history is the period from 29 November 1947 to 15 May 1948, when by sheer "magic" Israel expanded from a 7% land control to 78% in less than 5? months! Even if one would probe into the archives of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, such a period is missing from the historical files! The claim that the Arab armies were outnumbering the Zionist forces at a ratio of 20 to 1 is most ludicrous when we realize that the entire Arab armies did not exceed 13,600 in number when compared to the well-equipped Zionist forces of 26,700-almost 2 to 1, all right, but in favour of the Zionists! (4).
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#58 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 04:36 AM

The most malicious of these myths is the claim that had the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular accepting the UN Partition resolution on Palestine (resolution 181 of 29 November 1947). None of the tragedies we are facing today would have ever taken place. Accordingly, expulsions then were not planned in conjunction with Zionist propaganda, but were simply "accidents" of the 1948 war, or exigencies of the conflict. Hence there would have been no refugees, no expropriation of land, no violence, no wars, no victims and everybody would have coexisted harmoniously ever since. This sounds like a very pleasant dream, but miles away from the real world of international Zionist objectives, and much further from the real truth. Regrettably, many Arab sources repeat such myths and assign the blame to the indigenous Palestinians for rejecting the UN Partition Plan.
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#59 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 05:05 AM

The Arab rejection of the UN Partition Plan of resolution 181/11 was within the normal attitude of any people, as no one would cede more than half of his best land to a foreign colonialist, who declared his intentions of evicting the indigenous Palestinians once he established his presence. Actually, the Arab rejection of the UN Partition was a Zionist blessing in disguise, because had the Arabs accepted the Partition resolution, the Zionists would have to invent a new excuse to still uproot the Palestinians and to expropriate their lands in the process. As I pointed out earlier, one has to understand that since the advent of Zionism in the area and up to the date of the Partition, the Zionists collectively could not own more than 7% of the land of Palestine, including that land owned by the Jewish Agency (JA), the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and the entire private Jewish sector. Let us remember here that the UN Partition, even though it had allotted almost 55% of the best coastal areas in Palestine for the Zionists to establish a Jewish State, strictly prohibited in either State any land expropriation or the expulsion of anybody from his home or property. This meant that the Palestinians would still own over 93% of Palestine and represent the majority of the population even within the assigned Jewish State (5)! And since according to the same UN Partition, democratic process would be implemented with equality for all within either State, the Arab Palestinians would control the majority in government representation while owning most of the land in both States. Since the Zionist demand from the UN that future immigration to the State be under their control was rejected by the world organization, it became more than apparent that future Jewish immigration would be decided by the majority Arab representative government and even if it was not, no one could find a solution for future immigration of millions of Jews to a land that did not comprise more than 7% of Palestine. Even if the State land (less than 2%) under the British were turned over to the Zionists, it would still fail drastically to cater to a small portion of the future needs of the Jewish State. Therefore, accepting the exact implementation of the UN Partition resolution would have been an unwelcome disaster for the Zionist leadership, and the so-called goal of a majority Jewish State to be established would simply go down the drain!
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#60 Saddam

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 05:41 AM

In order, then, for the dream to come true, Arabs would have to be expelled and their lands would have to be expropriated since the Jewish limited geographic realities could hardly cater to the needs of the existing Jewish community in Palestine, let alone when the future Jewish immigration would become the top urgent priority dream of the future Jewish State. It was a declared and publicized objective of Zionism to create a majority Jewish State in Palestine, which was drastically contravened by the facts on the ground, and therefore the transfer (euphemism for expulsion) of the Arabs had to be practiced to realize such goals. You cannot create a majority Jewish State as the declared objective of international Zionism when the demographics and geographics favoured the Arab majority owning 93% of the land and a marginal Arab majority of the population. The Zionists knew this very well, and the transfer of the Arabs was not therefore a result of the exigencies of the war, as falsely claimed by the Zionists, but rather a long sought plan since the advent of this racist ideology, as noted by Theodore Herzl, who called for the "gentle" transfer of the Arabs out of Palestine as early as the end of the 19th century and has been repeatedly advocated ever since.
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