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Can America be tamed?


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#141 Guest_Tony Stark_*

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 02:10 AM

Originally posted by Gil Hughes
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I think his point is as you put it is that Americans a re probably inclined to be the most violent people on the Planet.

Or did I misread his paste.

The truth hurts



I will start this thread off with this. :rolleyes: Because all the bullshit you and the poster are throwing is blinding my eyes as I type.

Now, your trying to tell me just because we have a crime rate that shows we are the most violent on the planet? I think not. How come Saddams Iraq was not added to this list or a host of OTHER countries that hide thier problems?

All I see is another attempt to chip away at the top. You will try to find a million reasons to hate this great country but each and everytime you come up empty. Why don't you use that energy and find the cure for cancer or something.
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#142 Brendon

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 03:55 PM

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Forget about who is pulling the trigger for a moment. Focus on the victims. I bet just before they are shot they wished that the "people" who killed them didn't have such easy access to:

1/ A gun.

or

2/ A people.



I think guns do have something to do with it.
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#143 donquijote

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 05:18 PM

<My, my. You sure do know how to cut and paste. If you look at HUMAN history you would see that it is filled with violence so the question is what is your point? You should be asking can human nature be tamed? >

Well, I'll get you a small list of countries more or less "tamed" (defined as not providing guns to its citizens, and not engaging in endless conflicts that threaten all, as well as caring for its own citizens).

Canada, France, Germany, Scandinavian countries...

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#144 donquijote

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 05:32 PM

<- admittedly two years old but any change would likely favor the US as crime rates have dropped over the past couple of years. >

It's OK, the situation hasn't changed: Crime in America is Big Business, just like health care, culture, the destruction of the environment, and a few other things...

Perhaps the guns are just the bait... to catch the ghetto dwellers...

The Prison Industrial Complex and the Global Economy
by Eve Goldberg and Linda Evans

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over 1.8 million people are currently behind bars in the United States. This represents the highest per capita incarceration rate in the history of the world. In 1995 alone, 150 new U.S. prisons were built and filled.
This monumental commitment to lock up a sizeable percentage of the population is an integral part of the globalization of capital. Several strands converged at the end of the Cold War, changing relations between labor and capital on an international scale: domestic economic decline, racism, the U.S. role as policeman of the world, and growth of the international drug economy in creating a booming prison/industrial complex. And the prison industrial complex is rapidly becoming an essential component of the U.S. economy.

PRISONS ARE BIG BUSINESS

Like the military/industrial complex, the prison industrial complex is an interweaving of private business and government interests. Its twofold purpose is profit and social control. Its public rationale is the fight against crime.

Not so long ago, communism was "the enemy" and communists were demonized as a way of justifying gargantuan military expenditures. Now, fear of crime and the demonization of criminals serve a similar ideological purpose: to justify the use of tax dollars for the repression and incarceration of a growing percentage of our population. The omnipresent media blitz about serial killers, missing children, and "random violence" feeds our fear. In reality, however, most of the "criminals" we lock up are poor people who commit nonviolent crimes out of economic need. Violence occurs in less than 14% of all reported crime, and injuries occur in just 3%. In California, the top three charges for those entering prison are: possession of a controlled substance, possession of a controlled substance for sale, and robbery. Violent crimes like murder, rape, manslaughter and kidnaping don't even make the top ten.

Like fear of communism during the Cold War, fear of crime is a great selling tool for a dubious product.

As with the building and maintenance of weapons and armies, the building and maintenance of prisons are big business. Investment houses, construction companies, architects, and support services such as food, medical, transportation and furniture, all stand to profit by prison expansion. A burgeoning "specialty item" industry sells fencing, handcuffs, drug detectors, protective vests, and other security devices to prisons.

As the Cold War winds down and the Crime War heats up, defense industry giants like Westinghouse are re-tooling and lobbying Washington for their share of the domestic law enforcement market. "Night Enforcer" goggles used in the Gulf War, electronic "Hot Wire" fencing ("so hot NATO chose it for high-risk installations"), and other equipment once used by the military, are now being marketed to the criminal justice system.

Communication companies like AT&T,;Sprint, and MCI are getting into the act as well, gouging prisoners with exorbitant phone calling rates, often six times the normal long distance charge. Smaller firms like Correctional Communications Corp., dedicated solely to the prison phone business, provide computerized prison phone systems, fully equipped for systematic surveillance. They win government contracts by offering to "kick back" some of the profits to the government agency awarding the contract. These companies are reaping huge profits at the expense of prisoners and their families; prisoners are often effectively cut off from communication due to the excessive cost of phone calls.

One of the fastest growing sectors of the prison industrial complex is private corrections companies. Investment firm Smith Barney is a part owner of a prison in Florida. American Express and General Electric have invested in private prison construction in Oklahoma and Tennessee. Correctional Corporation Of America, one of the largest private prison owners, already operates internationally, with more than 48 facilities in 11 states, Puerto Rico, the United Kingdom, and Australia. Under contract by government to run jails and prisons, and paid a fixed sum per prisoner, the profit motive mandates that these firms operate as cheaply and efficiently as possible. This means lower wages for staff, no unions, and fewer services for prisoners. Private contracts also mean less public scrutiny. Prison owners are raking in billions by cutting corners which harm prisoners. Substandard diets, extreme overcrowding, and abuses by poorly trained personnel have all been documented and can be expected in these institutions which are unabashedly about making money.

Prisons are also a leading rural growth industry. With traditional agriculture being pushed aside by agribusiness, many rural American communities are facing hard times. Economically depressed areas are falling over each other to secure a prison facility of their own. Prisons are seen as a source of jobs'in construction, local vendors and prison staff'as well as a source of tax revenues. An average prison has a staff of several hundred employees and an annual payroll of several million dollars.

Like any industry, the prison economy needs raw materials. In this case the raw materials are prisoners. The prison industrial complex can grow only if more and more people are incarcerated'even if crime rates drop.

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#145 Gil Hughes

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 02:53 AM

Russia should join the EU.
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#146 publius

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 04:07 AM

< what we will have is a kind of return to the social relations that existed before the New Deal in the U.S. >

explain?
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#147 donquijote

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 02:39 PM

<Russia should join the EU.>

That's for sure. It's posted by me elsewhere under: "Is 'EURussia' a good idea?" So, we can vote on that there...

PS: How do you set up a survey?

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#148 Gaddock

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 03:34 PM

Russia will never become a member of the EU. The last thing they want are the Germans dictating economic doctrin to them. It will never last (The EU) anyway, and they know it.
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#149 donquijote

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 04:59 PM

<Russia will never become a member of the EU. The last thing they want are the Germans dictating economic doctrin to them. It will never last (The EU) anyway, and they know it. >

So, should we take that for a 'no'?

That parternship would work for them just fine. The Nazis have been out of power for the last 58 years, and Stalinism for the last 50 years or so.

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#150 Gaddock

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 05:12 PM

Yes ..... you may take that as a big fat NO. Will never happen. Many Russians I know feel the EU is simply another way for Germany to dominate.
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#151 donquijote

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 09:47 PM

<Yes ..... you may take that as a big fat NO. Will never happen. Many Russians I know feel the EU is simply another way for Germany to dominate. >

Or maybe another way for Moscow to capture Berlin, right? Maybe the Red Russians faked the whole thing of capitalism and once inside the EU they'll get their hands on the riches of capitalism...

Is it the latest conspiracy theory?

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#152 Gaddock

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 10:02 PM

donq
I said nothing even remotely close to that. Way to twist my words. Lets at least keep it honest.

you wrote ....."Is it the latest conspiracy theory?"

If it is, it's all yours ..... run with it.
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#153 GORDILL

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 01:00 AM

Can the United States "be tamed"?

Hell no! Muslims tried it, and now it's two down, three to go!

Let the far east take care of N. Korea. They will die on the vine.
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#154 Gaddock

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 12:30 PM

Hello chenier,
I really don't think it will come to that. I simply believe that they (Russia) will never join the EU. The EU (in my opinion) wont last more than twenty years at the very best. European countries value there sovereign far more than a pact. It will dissolve just as the endless per sessions of pacts/treaties have in the past.
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#155 Gaddock

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 05:07 PM

A quote from a self proclaimed German nationalist that posts on this forum regularly. You will find it easily if you look.

"The new Europe is coming: a glorious, strong new Nation, based on GERMAN order, honesty, and values"

Gee you think he is the only German that feels that way? I can tell you for a fact that this opinion (German Opinion) is common sentiment among Russians when discussing the EU.

RUSSIA WILL NOT JOIN THE EU!

Russia has not forgotten the Great Patriotic War (Germany). Even the railroad tracks in Russia are different from any other country TO THIS DAY. Why is that? So the Krauts cant use their RR.

Russia does not respect weakness (France)

England and the US are the same country as far as they are concerned. (The real West)
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#156 donquijote

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 06:28 PM

<How could Germany dominate when Russia is so huge and has such natural resources...I don't think any state has to dominate if there are truly sensible, pragmatic people in charge, and if so, then we are ALL doomed, for the nukes will then sooner or later fly, and past 15 megatons, they will destroy all mammalian life on this planet...so we really have few choices. >

Exactly. And if it hasn't dominated Portugal, I don't the Germans taking over the Kremlin.

Besides the Russians ain't that free they way they stand...

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#157 Gaddock

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 06:34 PM

Donq,
The issue is will Russia join the EU. I gave my reasons why I think they will not. Why don't you give reasons why they should.
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#158 donquijote

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 06:42 PM

<Hello chenier,
I really don't think it will come to that. I simply believe that they (Russia) will never join the EU. The EU (in my opinion) wont last more than twenty years at the very best. European countries value there sovereign far more than a pact. >

If they value their sovereignity they better stick together. Besides theirs' is a far more real union than the treaty dictated to Canada and Mexico by the US, allowing the free movement of people, which was the original intent of Adam Smith's capitalism.

In other words, it would be in everybody elses' interest to really develop Russia (to avoid her immigration) and not just use her as a source of cheap resources as it is the case now.

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#159 donquijote

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:18 AM

<As far as I know the United States is the only country in the world that uses the standard measurement system. Everyone else on the planet uses metric. I think that once the U.S. goes metric it's all over. You'll know what when Farenheit, pounds, inches, miles, and 5/8" wrenches are phased out that America has joined the rest of the world. >

I know no living American may know their measuring system, but
the metric system sounds to me like part of the UN's plans for world domination, don't you think?

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#160 donquijote

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 09:21 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Compared2What
[B]"Russians and Europeans all speak English, anyway"



<"NOT" >

America is the one that seems more isolated from the world, even though it speaks the de facto 'world language.' Maybe Internet can help...

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