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The "road map" to further colonization


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#1 Guest_Julio Cesar Per_*

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Posted 02 May 2003 - 01:06 AM

The "road map" to further colonization


by Mazin B. Qumsiyeh
I think it is rather telling that the so called "road map" for a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict failed to include the words: "international law" and "human rights." That these four simple words can be skipped in a document of 2221 words suggests that this latest effort will not produce peace. The map also seems to ignore the wall of apartheid being built and there is no mention of getting input from people affected regarding their future or the nature of the state they live in.

Like the defunct Oslo accords these latest trials were also based on an underlying assumption that with the disparity of power, Israel can dictate agreements. Israeli leaders wanted and got recognition of sovereignty on 78% of Palestine (land they stole from native Palestinians). But they want more. They want parts of the remaining 22%, they want acceptance of their demand to forfeit the most elemental of human rights such as the right of refugees to return to their homes and lands (all simply because they are not Jewish). What this means is that the victims of Israeli colonialism are expected to certify that it is OK for Israel to remain the only country in the world that identifies its lands as belonging not to its citizens but to "Jewish people everywhere". The Palestinians must recognize that Israel can remain the only country in the world that gives members of a particular religion (including converts) automatic rights (citizenship, land, homes, subsidies) that supercede and mostly replace those of "citizens" and native people who belong to other religions. Israel grants automatic citizenship to any individual who has one Jewish grandparent while denying citizenship to native Christians and Muslims simply for being of the wrong religion.

Israel is the only country in the world whose legitimacy does not flow from rights of self-determination of natives but Zionist claim of biblical authority. Without consulting the inhabitants (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), a UN general assembly resolution in 1947 called for partition of a native land to give 55% of the land to a colonial people who at the time represented 30% of the population and owned 7% of the land. Yet, this same resolution, while unfair and accomplished by much arm-twisting by the US, rejected any population transfer and insisted on Internationalizing Jerusalem, on an economic union, and on free movement of people (all these provisions where and are still unacceptable to the Zionist leaders).

Armed and supported by the British Empire and then the US (today's Empire?), the Zionist movement grew to become a dominant political/military ideology. In the process, this movement succeeded in removing over 70% of the native inhabitants of the land of Palestine and precipitate unrest and violence that is now engulfing many other areas of the world. The majority of Palestinians were made refugees or displaced persons and the remaining are losing their lands daily.

The foreign policy of the only remaining superpower was hijacked by Sharon's Zionist cronies in DC (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Wurmser and their cabal of "neoconservatives"). They are content to lead us into endless "preemptive" wars for "securing the [Israeli] realm" (as Perle and company put it in a 1996 document submitted to the Israeli government). CNN/MSNBC/Fox and US politicians beholden to special interest money help perpetuate this historic injustice and shield the public from the truth.

Israel violated over 70 UN Security Council resolutions and was protected from 35 others by US veto. Sharon and Bush speak of "eventually" having a Palestinian "state" but this is analogous to South Africa speaking about having states for blacks (what became known as Bantustans or large Ghettos). But unless annihilated (a difficult task in the 21st century), no native people have ever succumbed to their oppressors, however ruthless.

If we want peace in the Holy Land, all is needed is to implement the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If this is not good enough, why not apply relevant UN resolutions on the issue (including UNGA 194 also calling for return of refugees). Israel promised to comply with relevant UN resolutions when it was admitted to the UN. If they continue to refuse, perhaps it is time to get Israel out of the community of nations. The US Congress should also then cut off the billions of our tax dollars we send to allow continued violations of human rights and International law. Unless this is done, all the maps in the world will not lead to peace.
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#2 The Beat

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Posted 31 May 2003 - 07:03 PM

Neither Israel nor Palestine is anywhere near accepting international law nor international peace accords to end their conflict. too much bad blood on both sides.

Not in small part due to the British remaking of the Ottoman Empire after WWI.
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#3 Guest_Groundhog_*

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 04:00 AM

Julio, an insightful post. I printed out a copy of it to keep. gh
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#4 The Beat

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 01:13 AM

I agree 100%
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#5 AnotherEuropean

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 01:29 AM

One of the problems, in my opinion of course, is the "property rights" or the understanding of it, today.

Let us think of what "ownership" is. I can own a car, a wallet, a flashligt, a computer. All these things, are products of human hands. I can put them in my pocket, or take them with me when I decide to leave. Even a house, you can take it apart and move it ... even if that's a hard thing to do, it's possible and has been done. Castles have been taken a part, stone by stone and reassembled across the ocean. What about land?

Think of, ladies and gentlemen ... how can you own a land? You can't, the idea is absurd ... the land cannot be owned. It can be governed, a legal right to the land can be given or bought. Bought you can't take the land apart, and put it in your pocket or take it with you if you want or need to move. Therefore, land cannot be owned ... ever. This is a fundamental issue, that needs to be adressed ... as we're not at the same stage as the Lords and Kings of old times ... we've got a bit more intellect and understanding, than that.

When we've acknowledged that land cannot be owned, merely occupied and governed. At that point, we'll learn that the governing must be done by the people that occupy it. But while people still lack the fundamental intellect to understand this plain concept ... there won't be peace, as people on both sides will be too busy in establishing their ownership.

That's my point of view, anyway.
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#6 The Beat

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 02:03 AM

100% correct, as usual.

That is a question I pose of the zionist today.
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#7 AnotherEuropean

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 03:08 AM

Originally posted by The Beat
100% correct, as usual.

That is a question I pose of the zionist today.



I agree to that ... and I also think that many nations haven't considered this part. Imagine me buying an Island of the coast of the US. What is to hinder me, from simply buying New Mexico and putting up my own flag? violence? terror? ... isn't it "my" New Mexico ... after all, I bought it, didn't I? And since I own, whatever Island I bought ... who is to deny me the right of telling who ever was there to leave? ... it's "my" island, isn't it?

Unless this little "loop hole" is covered, lots of nations can run into trouble with it ... and not merely China, or Palestine, either.
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#8 Guest_isrdeu_*

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 11:32 AM

1- Mazin B. Qumsiyeh- Mazin B. Qumsiyeh is Chair of the Media Committee, The Palestine Right to Return Coalition. A very objective person of course. :P

2- Quote: " The map also seems to ignore the wall of apartheid being built and there is no mention of getting input from people affected regarding their future or the nature of the state they live in." -The fence was built in order to halt the suicide bombers sent by these barabarians calling themselves Palestinians. So far it proved its efficiency. They can only blame Arafat and all gangs of terror. Israel is entitled of self defence and no one can change it! Fact!

3- Quote: "Like the defunct Oslo accords these latest trials were also based on an underlying assumption that with the disparity of power, Israel can dictate agreements."

Funny. The leader of these gangs is "A nobel Prize lauearate for peace" for these Oslo records that he abused, by instead of using peace means turned to terror.

4- Quote: "Israeli leaders wanted and got recognition of sovereignty on 78% of Palestine (land they stole from native Palestinians). But they want more. They want parts of the remaining 22%, they want acceptance of their demand to forfeit the most elemental of human rights such as the right of refugees to return to their homes and lands (all simply because they are not Jewish). What this means is that the victims of Israeli colonialism are expected to certify that it is OK for Israel to remain the only country in the world that identifies its lands as belonging not to its citizens but to "Jewish people everywhere".

Lie after lie. The trut is that Arab/Islamic strives to demolish Israel are the source of the refugee problem.

Just lear more about it : http://198.173.255.2.../nutshell3.html

5-Quote: "The Palestinians must recognize that Israel can remain the only country in the world that gives members of a particular religion (including converts) automatic rights (citizenship, land, homes, subsidies) that supercede and mostly replace those of "citizens" and native people who belong to other religions. Israel grants automatic citizenship to any individual who has one Jewish grandparent while denying citizenship to native Christians and Muslims simply for being of the wrong religion."

Lie - There are 1.2 million Muslim and Christian citizens in Israel. The Arabs are trying to get Israeli citizenship due to the services it grants its citizens compared to retarded whole Arabic world. No wonder that many Arabs are trying any false way to get this citizenship.

6- Quote: "Israel is the only country in the world whose legitimacy does not flow from rights of self-determination of natives but Zionist claim of biblical authority. Without consulting the inhabitants (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), a UN general assembly resolution in 1947 called for partition of a native land to give 55% of the land to a colonial people who at the time represented 30% of the population and owned 7% of the land. Yet, this same resolution, while unfair and accomplished by much arm-twisting by the US, rejected any population transfer and insisted on Internationalizing Jerusalem, on an economic union, and on free movement of people (all these provisions where and are still unacceptable to the Zionist leaders)."

Lies after lies . Just link to:

a- http://198.173.255.2.../nutshell3.html
b- http://198.173.255.2...conflict_2.html


7- Quote: "Armed and supported by the British Empire and then the US (today's Empire?), the Zionist movement grew to become a dominant political/military ideology. "

A good excuse to describe the fact that the whole Muslim world could not dfy Israel. In all wars started by Arabic world against Israel they lost (1 billion Arabs against a nation of 5 millions). It says something on them and their culture.

8- Quote: "In the process, this movement succeeded in removing over 70% of the native inhabitants of the land of Palestine and precipitate unrest and violence that is now engulfing many other areas of the world. The majority of Palestinians were made refugees or displaced persons and the remaining are losing their lands daily."

Now we understand - Al Quaeda is a Zionist plot :P

9- Quote: "The foreign policy of the only remaining superpower was hijacked by Sharon's Zionist cronies in DC (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Wurmser and their cabal of "neoconservatives"). They are content to lead us into endless "preemptive" wars for "securing the [Israeli] realm" (as Perle and company put it in a 1996 document submitted to the Israeli government). CNN/MSNBC/Fox and US politicians beholden to special interest money help perpetuate this historic injustice and shield the public from the truth."

He forgot the fact that the Zionists and specially the Mossad are behind the Ozon Layer problem, not to say the fact that they killed Jesus.

10 Quote: "Israel violated over 70 UN Security Council resolutions and was protected from 35 others by US veto. Sharon and Bush speak of "eventually" having a Palestinian "state" but this is analogous to South Africa speaking about having states for blacks (what became known as Bantustans or large Ghettos). But unless annihilated (a difficult task in the 21st century), no native people have ever succumbed to their oppressors, however ruthless."

The UN already equalized Zionism to racism and withdraw it afterwards . So who gives a shit about this organisation. With the automatic majority the Arab/Mudlim block in the UN they can vote that Sun encircles Earth, so what. BTW- according their strives to conrol world by the power of sword "Din il Muhamed fil Seif", the dark ages is their agenda. Galileo would not survive them even today. p:

11- Quote: "If we want peace in the Holy Land, all is needed is to implement the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If this is not good enough, why not apply relevant UN resolutions on the issue (including UNGA 194 also calling for return of refugees). Israel promised to comply with relevant UN resolutions when it was admitted to the UN. If they continue to refuse, perhaps it is time to get Israel out of the community of nations. The US Congress should also then cut off the billions of our tax dollars we send to allow continued violations of human rights and International law. Unless this is done, all the maps in the world will not lead to peace. "

Who speaks! Let start with is to implement the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in the Muslim/Arabic world.

Unless terrorism is stopped you can go on crying. The road map first step is annihilating any terrorist and stopping all terror acts. Before this happens you can go on with your lies. We don't give a shit.
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#9 Pliny

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 04:10 PM

Originally posted by isrdeu
We don't give a shit.



Lies! More lies!!:P
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#10 The Beat

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 12:40 AM

Let's discuss your points:

Israel is entitled of self defence and no one can change it! Fact!


I agree with you 100%. Israel should not be subject to such barbaric acts that are currently being perpetrated by SOME Muslims. However, to place a wall INSIDE Palestinian territory is UNJUST. You should put it EXACTLY on the border. This is the same as saying that you are my next door neighbor, and since I have very unruly boys, you are going to put a wall around your house that goes half-way through my kitchen. AND, I have no right to object.

We are humans (well, most of us). We need to treat each other as such. If you put a wall in my kitchen, I'm gonna get upset. All you have done is INCREASED the tension and escalated the violence.

Funny. The leader of these gangs is "A nobel Prize lauearate for peace" for these Oslo records that he abused, by instead of using peace means turned to terror.


I don't like Arafat, never have. Even though he's an engineer by trade, he's a lousy politician. But he does have the support of the Palestinians. So I'm afraid you're gonna have to deal with him for a while. Why don't you use the famous Arabic saying to solve the issues:

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

If you only placated the man, he would be putty in your hands. He has few grandiose ideas for the state of Palestine, IMHO. He wants to leave here being loved by millions. It would be a lot easier to give him tidbits so that he is happy and goes back to his adoring public happy, than to constantly kick him in the shins and wonder why he sends so many bad people against Israel. We have a saying in English that helps:

"You can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar."

The UN already equalized Zionism to racism and withdraw it afterwards . So who gives a shit about this organisation. With the automatic majority the Arab/Mudlim block in the UN they can vote that Sun encircles Earth, so what. BTW- according their strives to conrol world by the power of sword "Din il Muhamed fil Seif", the dark ages is their agenda.


I believe that the last two wars in the world were started by non-Muslims. Right??? If you look at the number killed by all parties over the past 60 years, where would the Muslims lie??? Where would Israel lie???? The answer would astonish you, to be sure. You are looking microscopically at a local problem and trying to project it out globally.

Not all Muslims are bad.

Not all Jews are good.

Not all Christians are indifferent.

Israel doesn't only make the right choice.

Plaestinians don't all grow up to be suicide bombers.

Isrdeu, the world is a bit more complex than that.
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#11 Guest_isrdeu_*

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 12:02 PM

Quote: "Let's discuss your points:

"I agree with you 100%. Israel should not be subject to such barbaric acts that are currently being perpetrated by SOME Muslims. However, to place a wall INSIDE Palestinian territory is UNJUST. You should put it EXACTLY on the border. This is the same as saying that you are my next door neighbor, and since I have very unruly boys, you are going to put a wall around your house that goes half-way through my kitchen. AND, I have no right to object."

Your argumentation are 100%. The two faults in this argument are :
1- There never was and there is no agreed upon "border".
2- There was not in the past this new creation of Palestine people.

There is what we call the "Green Line" which was the cease fire borders between Israel and Jordan as determined in Cyprus accords after 1948 war. Within these borders is what is named today the West Bank.

What is called today Palestine people never existed until 1967 when Israel freed Judea, Samaria and Gaza streep (what is called by you the West Bank), from the Jordanian and Eygiptian control.
Untill 1967, all Arabs in these lands were just Arabs not different than Syrian or Jordanian or Egyptian. As a matter of fact I do reccomend you read what Mark Twein said about the whole Holy Land when he visited here in the 19th century. All this land was deserted except few nomadic tribes. The immigration of Arabs into these lands was parallel to Jewish Immigration. The Jews turned this desert into flourshing place which attracted Arabs from all around Arabic world.

Where are the borders of this people?
Although they were invented by the Arabic/Islamic world desparate with its efforts to demolish Israel by wars, Israel was ready not once to settele the conflict. Former P.M. Barak offered Arafat the whole west bank, including part of Jerusalem, but Arafat broke discussions and turned to terror (A Nobel Prize laureate - unbelievable). The reason was simple. He can not come to peace terms with Israel, because it will leave Israel as a prosperous country in the heart of the retarded Islamic world. He could not because he and the whole Arabic world would have to accept the legitimacy of a Jewish State. I can go on with all the details of the state of mind of the Muslim world looking to control the world and finds itself unable to stand agains Israel which is a fraction of their population and lands and counries (22), while having a GNP which is equal almost to whole GNP of Arab states.

Last not least Israel stated time after time that the fence built is for self defence , and it will be dismantled when there will be a partner to negotiate about peace terms. Unfortunately since they don't look for peace where two countries will coexsit in Peace, and they "need" another Arabic country (the 23rd), with no room for Israel as a free Jewish state we shall go on with our self dence rights with out taking care about any criticism.

Please link to:

http://198.173.255.2...conflict_2.html
http://198.173.255.2.../nutshell3.html



Quote: "We are humans (well, most of us). We need to treat each other as such. If you put a wall in my kitchen, I'm gonna get upset. All you have done is INCREASED the tension and escalated the violence."

Using your example: What would you do when somebody that lives in a property, you have claims of being its owner, and he is using terror in your house in order to withdraw you from your property? What would you do when you offer him to settele the conflict, giving him all what he claimed for, and than he starts a new terror , hurting your family on daily basis since the matter of fact is he wants you leave at all your own home? I wonder1

Quote: "I don't like Arafat, never have. Even though he's an engineer by trade, he's a lousy politician. But he does have the support of the Palestinians. So I'm afraid you're gonna have to deal with him for a while. Why don't you use the famous Arabic saying to solve the issues:

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

We do it . He will never leave alive the Mukataa (where he is under our control).

Quote: If you only placated the man, he would be putty in your hands. He has few grandiose ideas for the state of Palestine, IMHO. He wants to leave here being loved by millions. It would be a lot easier to give him tidbits so that he is happy and goes back to his adoring public happy, than to constantly kick him in the shins and wonder why he sends so many bad people against Israel. We have a saying in English that helps:

"You can catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.""

The Beat,

We are rationale as you, and did try all means suggested by you. How can you deal with somebody that has a special language when he speaks to westren public opinion, and another language when he speaks to his fellows , urging them to keep on their bloody terror??? As told you , his and Islamic target is not Palestine side by side with Israel, but Palestine on the ruyins of Israel. It is hard, difficult to understand. It took us time to understand it, but as people of more than 3500 years of written history, we passed Hitler, (as others that wanted the same) and we shall pass him too!



Quote:" I believe that the last two wars in the world were started by non-Muslims. Right??? If you look at the number killed by all parties over the past 60 years, where would the Muslims lie??? Where would Israel lie???? The answer would astonish you, to be sure. You are looking microscopically at a local problem and trying to project it out globally."

I did not invented the term of Civillization Clash. The Islamic/Arabic world is retarded and frustrated due to the fact having so much minerals (oil), and being almost 1 billion people while being the most retarded culture in the world. I suggest you learn why.

Quote: "Not all Muslims are bad."

Islam bad, Islam is a facist ideology that puts the "Uma il Mutahida" (the Islamic nation) before human rights.

Quote: "Not all Jews are good."

Agreed.

Quote: "Not all Christians are indifferent.'

Agreed.

Quote: 'Israel doesn't only make the right choice."

You would never know what would happen if..... Any how Israel was enforced to make its choices that maybe look wrong from outside, but are clear cut for its survivability.

Quote: "Plaestinians don't all grow up to be suicide bombers."

I suggest you link to:

http://www.conceptwi..._of_hatred.html
http://198.173.255.2.../imagine_n.html

The suicide bombing is rooted in Islam ( Isuggest you learn about it more - 72 virgins are part of this education). The reason you are aware about it is not only because of Israel ( remember the WTC?). Israel suffers the Islamic terror more than a century. Today it become an cultural pillar intheir society and education.

The Beat, the world is a bit more complex than your naive example and superficial examination of the issue. We live it, and it is a question of daily death or live question. We are ready to be criticized, and believe me , we are the most radical critics of ourselves(Part of Jewishness).
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#12 The Beat

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 04:25 AM

Let's discuss your points in detail:

Your argumentation are 100%. The two faults in this argument are :
1- There never was and there is no agreed upon "border".
2- There was not in the past this new creation of Palestine people.


This is entirely wrong. There were well defined borders. Borders defined by the UN. Israel ignored those borders. The Palestinians have had to pay ever since, because the Isrealis have ignored the borders. This is a fact.

you wrote this:

As a matter of fact I do reccomend you read what Mark Twein said about the whole Holy Land when he visited here in the 19th century. All this land was deserted except few nomadic tribes


They were not at all deserted. There were cities everywhere, Jeruselem, Beirut, Bethlehem, and others. There were people who lived there for thousands of years, yet you wish to push them off of their land just because you suddenly, in the 20th century, decided that they no longer belong, ............................. even though they've lived there forever.

You want to kick them off of the land they have lived on for over two thousand years because ............................................... well, because you said so, and they have no right to answer back to you, even if this means imminent disaster for them. After all, they aren't Jewish, so they can't be human, right??
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#13 The Beat

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Posted 05 December 2004 - 04:27 AM

Kick the Palestinians off of their own land

SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT JEWISH.

How racist can that be????????????????????????
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