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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#1 donquijote

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 07:21 PM

It got the most resources, the scientists, an educated population, no commitments to a strong ideology, and an unsurmountable crisis... What does it got to lose? Nothing. What does it have to gain? Everything...

Well this is what I put forth...

A ROAD TO FREEDOM (UNLIKE RUSSIA'S)

Why not build a new system? That offers PROSPERITY, SOCIAL JUSTICE and FREEDOM; that discards the defects of both Communism and Capitalism; and that places the system at the service of the human being, and not the other way around. Why not HUMANISM?

Naturally, education and health care should be the maximum priorities; they should be free -or affordable, in the case of higher education- and accessible to all. Education should emphasize the learning of English -or Esperanto, if we all ever agree on it- and literacy... in computers. Likewise, culture and sports should receive special attention (for example, adopting the affordable child-care centers; in general, we would have much to learn from the Scandinavian model). A MIXED MODEL, that includes competition and cooperation, would create a healthy competition, and it would allow to satisfy the material and human needs of all. (In this way, the cooperative enterprises would be forced to become more efficient, while capitalist enterprises would be forced to become more humane; we would have much to learn from the Israeli kibbutz [non-profit cooperatives]; and from the industrial cooperatives of Mondragon, in the Basque Country [a "workers capitalism"].) We should seek full employment (for instance, by creating jobs in the construction of the transportation infrastructure; but, if unemployment persists, the work time could be reduced). Public transportation should be A1. (The city of Curitiba, in Brazil, offers us a functional model of transportation; bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major streets.) The homeless, who now occupy our better parks, should be incorporated into light but necessary duties, like picking up litter, in exchange for a decent wage; there should be no homeless. (Again, Curitiba is a model on this.) Junk food should have a warning label (just like cigarettes), particularly the one destined to children, and also be taxed to subsidize healthy alternatives. Housing should be available at popular prices. (Prefabricated multifamily units can help accomplish this; the movement of "new urbanism" can provide them with a sense of community and quality of life, say by having abundant green areas.) Public corruption should be treated as "public enemy No.1." TV and radio should be independent of Big Business and the State. (This is due to two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad programs become "good"... for business; and, politically, because whoever has power over the media... will be in power; however, people should be able to watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us and example of an independent media.) The "Free Press" should be democratized, so that, among other things, the censorship of the opinions of the public is eradicated. Politics should become cheaper to avoid its control by powerful groups (for example, offering free time on TV to the candidates; we would have much to learn from the political model of Switzerland [in particular, its political decentralization and its system of referendums]). Nevertheless, we should never follow neither anything nor anyone -including myself- blindly. And, of course, everything can be improved. Something to think about: While the prohibition of drugs has been largely ineffective, different studies show us alternative methods to face that problem -and the crime associated with them... The final form of this system would be determined by the acceptance of the people themselves: Each and everyone of these proposals should be submitted to referendum. And, the basis of everything else: We should learn to live, not FROM, but WITH Nature.

"What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many"

"Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral question of our time; the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence"

-M.L. King

A COMMENT FROM A FRIEND:

The system you describe sounds awfully good. I'd say no country is on the road you suggest, but it might be a good thing for world leaders to read your article, since it could give them some goals. What a wonder it'd be, for example, if George Bush announced some actual long-term goals for the country, instead of reacting to events in a knee-jerk fashion. I'm picking on George, but much the same can be said of most any world leader I know of.

-Charles

ANOTHER GENERAL COMMENT:

I would agree that some countries have a hybrid of socialism and capitalism like Sweden, Norway and Denmark. These countries do not have the great natural resources of the United States, yet despite that, they have a safety net which seems to not allow the poorest of the poor to get so low. They might take the attitude that a country is no stronger than its weakest citizen, and therefore do not wish to see their weakest rot in a homeless situation. The hybrid in the U.S. allows for a strong amount of capitalism, with less of a safety net, despite our great national resources. WE need to find a mechanism to uplift our poor of all ethinicities and races. It should be made clear that a reasonable safety net, in no way resembles Soviet Communism.

-Wayne

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
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#2 Gaddock

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Posted 04 May 2003 - 07:50 PM

First things first .......... The biggest problem Russia must overcome is an effective appellate court system that is not only free from corruption but has the teeth necessary to impose/enforce penalties. Getting beyond the philosophical political systems debate, Russia needs investment dollars (mega rubles). The only way such funding can be made available to the Russian economy is via foreign investment. As it currently stands, a Russian company can take foreign investment and simply breech any contractual agreements it likes with no fear of any repercussions. They can give the investor the finger while laughing. Such an environment is far from conducive for such investment. When an appellate court system is in place and functional working capital will flow into Russia like snow in Siberia. And then the sleeping giant will wipe the sleep from his eyes.
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#3 Gaddock

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 08:03 PM

Accept resopsibility for her problems and not blame everybody else.
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#4 Jack Off

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:14 PM

1) Changing the culture and ethics of the workplace for more Western ones

2) Reorientation of the government from foreign to domestic issues

3) Full accountability of the government

4) Replacement of corrupt and full of loopholes legal system

5) Total removal of former Communists from power, both political and financial

6) Draconian criminal law
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#5 PeterL

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:27 PM

A legal system that is fair and responsible is the most important thing that Russia needs.

The second thing is unrestricted private ownership of land.

Without those two reforms there is no reason for anyone (especially legimate invesors) to invest heavily in Russia.
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#6 Varangian

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 09:40 PM

Several times I have seen posts on this forum referring to the vast resources in Russia. This is true, but, historically, they have been difficult to exploit. The climate is roughly analogous to Canada, and all the rivers in Siberia flow north into the arctic ocean. Even the Volga, along which the country developed, flows into a land-locked Caspian sea. Compare this with the US. The US has a more temperate climate, the Mississipi, Missouri, Ohio river system, as well as the Great lakes system, and the Columbia river system. All these have allowed for easy exploitation of resources. Future technology and techniques will help Russia take advantage of its wealth, but the problems of geography should not be underestimated.
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#7 donquijote

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Posted 08 May 2003 - 10:54 PM

<1) Changing the culture and ethics of the workplace for more Western ones

2) Reorientation of the government from foreign to domestic issues

3) Full accountability of the government

4) Replacement of corrupt and full of loopholes legal system

5) Total removal of former Communists from power, both political and financial

6) Draconian criminal law >

OK, the 'patient' seems to be dying, the medication never worked, but we should double the dosis...

And how about re-evaluation the 'side-effects' from it both in the patient at hand and the other ones before him, say Argentina?

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#8 Rebel

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 09:08 AM

How could Russia gain more power?

1) First, and foremost, cut back on military spending by, let's say, 5-10% and divert that money into a program to promote more childbearing (similar, but more aggressive, to the communist party's policies prior to Yeltzin).

2) Stop trying to immitate western hedonistic practices. Russia can't afford the pricetag of abortion-related sterility, sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS, drugs and the like. Promote spirituality. Promote nationalistic pride. Stalin used these things to save his --- in WW2 and make no mistake about it, disease and childlessness is going to decline the Russian population faster than Himmler might have dreamed of unless trends are reversed.

3) Safeguard foreign investment from organized crime. Russia needs more domestic and international business growth and it won't get what it needs unless people feel free and safe to engage in economic activity.

4) Clean out the prisons. Either execute the hardened criminals or lock 'em up -- however, other prisoners should be given the Australian option and be relocatted to areas of Siberia to start the re-population and re-building the infrastructure. People in jail for theft, drugs, etc. could get their sentences revoked if they agree to work 5 years in Siberia. This would go a long way towards eradicating anti-biotic resistant diseases from developing in Russian prisons.

5) Try more and more to link up with the USA in regards to economic revatalization. Europe is not the answer, North America is.
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#9 donquijote

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 06:18 PM

<How could Russia gain more power?

1) First, and foremost, cut back on military spending by, let's say, 5-10% and divert that money into a program to promote more childbearing (similar, but more aggressive, to the communist party's policies prior to Yeltzin). >

OK common sense. But cutting military expending is the European way, not the American way...

2) Stop trying to immitate western hedonistic practices. Russia can't afford the pricetag of abortion-related sterility, sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS, drugs and the like. Promote spirituality. Promote nationalistic pride. Stalin used these things to save his --- in WW2 and make no mistake about it, disease and childlessness is going to decline the Russian population faster than Himmler might have dreamed of unless trends are reversed.

Jerry Falwell?

3) Safeguard foreign investment from organized crime. Russia needs more domestic and international business growth and it won't get what it needs unless people feel free and safe to engage in economic activity.

What country in Latin America has developed under 100 years of investments?

4) Clean out the prisons. Either execute the hardened criminals or lock 'em up -- however, other prisoners should be given the Australian option and be relocatted to areas of Siberia to start the re-population and re-building the infrastructure. People in jail for theft, drugs, etc. could get their sentences revoked if they agree to work 5 years in Siberia. This would go a long way towards eradicating anti-biotic resistant diseases from developing in Russian prisons.

Again, America got more people in prison than farmers...

5) Try more and more to link up with the USA in regards to economic revatalization. Europe is not the answer, North America is.

Rather surprising conclusion. Or maybe not, coming from Jerry Falwell...

Face it, hardcore greedy capitalism goes against the soul of most people, save perhaps Americans and Chinese... Not even the Canadians practice it!

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#10 donquijote

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 07:28 PM

<Face it, hardcore greedy capitalism goes against the soul of most people, save perhaps Americans and Chinese... Not even the Canadians practice it!">

Not even the canadians practice it...Hello....what drugs are you using today?

So, would you accept the 'socialist policies' of Canada, say health care or gun control? You know better, Canada is much closer to Europe than to America, for her own good.

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#11 Gaddock

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 07:38 PM

"So, would you accept the 'socialist policies' of Canada, say health care or gun control? You know better, Canada is much closer to Europe than to America, for her own good."

Tee hee I so wish that was true. But its NOT WAKE UP DUDE!
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#12 Guest__*

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 10:11 AM

Russia needs a better reputation and needs to show its greatness to the world .
This by standing up to countries like North Korea and by not supplying Iran with nuclear technology .
All this will blow up in the face of Russia itself .
We in Europe want to see a Russia doing the right thing , a Russia we can trust .
That trust Russia wont get by supplying Iran with Nuclear tech.
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#13 lieven

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 01:55 PM

I am not going to pretend to have the answer to this one.

I can though give you my opinion.

I believe Russia has the potential to be the most powerful nation in the world. It has the resources, people, _history_, experience and knowledge.
I am an engineer and I look in awe to the tech that came and still comes out of Russia.

I believe a more socialist approach would be benficial for its population and its development. Health and education should be virtually free. The experience again is already there in Russias history. That implementation may have been too extreme.

Corruption or the idea in the world that Russia is corrupt should be handled.

But other then that I am very keen to start dealing with Russian people and companies.

I am sure we would be very good for each other.

The future is bright (especially after the shakeup of the last few months).

P.S. my Russian is coming along fine :-)
da svidania
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#14 donquijote

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 05:00 PM

<I believe Russia has the potential to be the most powerful nation in the world. It has the resources, people, _history_, experience and knowledge.
I am an engineer and I look in awe to the tech that came and still comes out of Russia.

I believe a more socialist approach would be benficial for its population and its development. Health and education should be virtually free. The experience again is already there in Russias history. That implementation may have been too extreme.>

I totally agree, Russia must re-examine herself to see if she really wants to abandon the ideals of her recent past... Take for example China; she's highly economically 'succesful' at the cost of providing cheap labor to America and at the cost of abandoning socialized medicine! Is that 'success'?

Meanwhile countries like Canada --or the rest of the industrialized world, save America-- are doing just fine with her single-payer insurance. Likewise education is the key not only to individual success but also to scourges like terrorism...

Perhaps you can benefit from investigating more the 'Scandinavian model,' which after all is your next door neighbor.

Here's some info on it...

Scandinavian Model for the World?

It often has been cited as the 'Scandinavian Model,' where Utopia
seems to be taking place, but where exactly is it leading?

Well, I've put together a number of areas where, in my opinion, it's
taking the lead...

-Cooperatives (Denmark), particularly in agriculture.

-Employee ownership.

-Bike lanes along all major streets (Copenhagen), a proposal at this
stage.

-Food safety (Denmark and Sweden...), tackling salmonella, hormones, etc.

-Banning of TV ads for children under 12.

-Child care for working mothers.

-No serious poverty.

-The environment, in particular Iceland has promised to do away with
oil. No littering.

-Peace efforts in foreign policy (Norway...)

-Humane prisons (Denmark...)

-City-traffic management (Oslo).

-Women participation in politics (three times that of the US).

Would the world be a safer place by following their example? I believe
so...

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#15 Stephen Volk B.

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 10:30 PM

* For Russia to be #1, in the forthcoming invasion of the U.S. it will have to let China go first and then closely follow. This will put China below Russia.

* At the risk of sounding terribly and pathetically cliche, it needs to take seriously in its school curriculum the writings of its son, Solzhenitsyn, as the man does know what he's talking about (and to see the last Czar was not representative of Christianity).

* The peculiar Marxist writings of Walter Schubart have to be taken seriously, again installed into the curriculum:

Schubart reveals, "Whereas in both the Ancient and Gothic worlds there were human beings who worked or did business, in the Promethean world all interest and all business became concentrated on a single aim - the enterprise - in which the human being was absorbed and as a result of which a bleak and hopeless anonymity spread itself over modern life." This is especially true of the American contractors in Russia and Canada, where an agent is merely one upon hundreds of hundreds of thousands; anonymous in hundreds of identical cubicles, where the customer cannot see the anonymous agent, the agent can give no last name, and where he deals with the same dehumanizing redundancies week after week, year after year. RUSSIA CANNOT BE GREAT UNLESS ITS PEOPLE ARE GREAT AND NOT ENSLAVED!

Walter Schubart continues, "Man feels himself deflated by the very technical apparatus and organization he himself has created." This is exactly what happens! The anonymities, redundancies, and very, very low pay deflates hundreds of thousands of Russians and Canadians slaving for the technical apparatus and organization of the American globalist contractor. The anonymities, redundancies, and very, very low pay will turn otherwise first-class Russians and Canadians into globalist techno-slaves...

Walter Schubart emphasizes the last resort is "a single protest against this materialization of mankind, against the victory of the thing over its creator, and against the destruction of the balance between the soul and its environment." (p. 104) I believe this singular protest as a last resort is found in the true grass roots willing to take a clear stand against the trend toward corporate globalization!

Schubart reveals, "Man as victim of the machine is likewise victim of organizations. The more indispensible, the more rigid, and the more widespread the organization, the more threatening becomes the arbitrariness with which it is controlled... Instead of the hoped-for security and calculability of existence, modern man is aware only of demonic forces encircling him that he can no longer exorcise." (p. 105)

By what Schubart is saying, a growing statistic of Russians and Canadians are not only victims of American multinational machines but victims of American multinational organizations; and the more widespread the American contracting organizations, the more threatening becomes the arbitrariness by which Russians and Canadians are controlled!

The combination of Solzhenitsyn and Schubart, as two examples, in curriculum and homes, will help to restore what the globalist forces are currently detsroying. Russia will again be great when her people are great.
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#16 stolb

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 01:06 AM

Russia needs a dictatorship for a quick revival. A dictator would kick western journalists out of Russia, kick chechens out of Russia, kick other foreigners(those that came in after 1989 unless they have a real good reason to be in Russia) out of Russia, resume a death penalty and deride the violent prisoners of all the rights, make all-Russian cars and other technology. And that's about it. Perhaps it's possible to do this democratically, but it would be so much easier if Russia just had someone like Franco to lead it to a quick prosperity.

An example of dictatorship- some mafiosi orders to kill a businessman or a prosecutor. The hitman does the job perfectly, so police doesnt have anything on them. But police already know it was the mafia's sphere of influence, so they arrest the mafiosi anyway, and torture him until they get more bandits. And then frame them all with fake evidence and execute them.

This kind of police work would only apply to the violent crimes (drugs and casinos). This is essential to protect the small businesses.
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#17 stolb

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 01:11 AM

But anyway, i think Russia is doing good now. It's just in USA the rumours make an elephant out of a mosquito.
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#18 Volrak

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 08:50 AM

For the most part, the previous posts seem to take a fairly russo-centric view of the subject -- i.e., Russia wants to be great because Russia wants to be great, and here are the ways that Russia can be as great as she wants to be. However, Russia, whether great or not, greatly impacts on her neighbours. Do they also want her to be great??

If Russia's behaviour towards her neighbours will be anything like it has been for the last two or three hundred years, the answer is likely to be a resounding no! But if Russia should show a genuine change of heart, then, why not? Russia can then be as great as she wants to be.

Unfortunately, Russia has historically shown almost no capacity to understand the legitimate concerns of, to feel the pain of, nor to empathise with the experience of anyone else, not even with its own people, let alone with that of other surrounding nations. In a headlong rush for "greatness", she has cruelly and brutally trampled over all who stand in her way, complaining only about her own perpetual status as an alleged "victim", and being entirely incapable of grasping the reality of how she has victimised just about everyone else within reach, from the inhabitants of Alaska in the 1800s to Eastern Europe until as late as the 1990s.

For Russia to become truly great, she needs to acknowledge and understand what it is that drives her to such unremitting bastardry, take responsibility for her own actions, and stop viewing all references to her own horrible international record as some sort of anti-Russian persecution.

A good place to start would be for Moscow to apologise or the occupation of the Baltic countries. Or short of that, to acknowledge that an occupation as much as even happened. Up until now, Russia has lacked the capacity to do even that much. Does a nation with such a profound blind spot deserve greatness?
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#19 Guest_Hamid_*

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 09:03 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by donquijote
[B]It got the most resources, the scientists, an educated population, no commitments to a strong ideology, and an unsurmountable crisis... What does it got to lose? Nothing. What does it have to gain? Everything...

Well this is what I put forth...

A ROAD TO FREEDOM (UNLIKE RUSSIA'S)

Why not build a new system? That offers PROSPERITY, SOCIAL JUSTICE and FREEDOM; that discards the defects of both Communism and Capitalism; and that places the system at the service of the human being, and not the other way around. Why not HUMANISM?

Naturally, education and health care should be the maximum priorities; they should be free -or affordable, in the case of higher education- and accessible to all. Education should emphasize the learning of English -or Esperanto, if we all ever agree on it- and literacy... in computers. Likewise, culture and sports should receive special attention (for example, adopting the affordable child-care centers; in general, we would have much to learn from the Scandinavian model). A MIXED MODEL, that includes competition and cooperation, would create a healthy competition, and it would allow to satisfy the material and human needs of all. (In this way, the cooperative enterprises would be forced to become more efficient, while capitalist enterprises would be forced to become more humane; we would have much to learn from the Israeli kibbutz [non-profit cooperatives]; and from the industrial cooperatives of Mondragon, in the Basque Country [a "workers capitalism"].) We should seek full employment (for instance, by creating jobs in the construction of the transportation infrastructure; but, if unemployment persists, the work time could be reduced). Public transportation should be A1. (The city of Curitiba, in Brazil, offers us a functional model of transportation; bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major streets.) The homeless, who now occupy our better parks, should be incorporated into light but necessary duties, like picking up litter, in exchange for a decent wage; there should be no homeless. (Again, Curitiba is a model on this.) Junk food should have a warning label (just like cigarettes), particularly the one destined to children, and also be taxed to subsidize healthy alternatives. Housing should be available at popular prices. (Prefabricated multifamily units can help accomplish this; the movement of "new urbanism" can provide them with a sense of community and quality of life, say by having abundant green areas.) Public corruption should be treated as "public enemy No.1." TV and radio should be independent of Big Business and the State. (This is due to two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad programs become "good"... for business; and, politically, because whoever has power over the media... will be in power; however, people should be able to watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us and example of an independent media.) The "Free Press" should be democratized, so that, among other things, the censorship of the opinions of the public is eradicated. Politics should become cheaper to avoid its control by powerful groups (for example, offering free time on TV to the candidates; we would have much to learn from the political model of Switzerland [in particular, its political decentralization and its system of referendums]). Nevertheless, we should never follow neither anything nor anyone -including myself- blindly. And, of course, everything can be improved. Something to think about: While the prohibition of drugs has been largely ineffective, different studies show us alternative methods to face that problem -and the crime associated with them... The final form of this system would be determined by the acceptance of the people themselves: Each and everyone of these proposals should be submitted to referendum. And, the basis of everything else: We should learn to live, not FROM, but WITH Nature.

"What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many"

"Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral question of our time; the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence"

-M.L. King

A COMMENT FROM A FRIEND:

The system you describe sounds awfully good. I'd say no country is on the road you suggest, but it might be a good thing for world leaders to read your article, since it could give them some goals. What a wonder it'd be, for example, if George Bush announced some actual long-term goals for the country, instead of reacting to events in a knee-jerk fashion. I'm picking on George, but much the same can be said of most any world leader I know of.

-Charles

ANOTHER GENERAL COMMENT:

I would agree that some countries have a hybrid of socialism and capitalism like Sweden, Norway and Denmark. These countries do not have the great natural resources of the United States, yet despite that, they have a safety net which seems to not allow the poorest of the poor to get so low. They might take the attitude that a country is no stronger than its weakest citizen, and therefore do not wish to see their weakest rot in a homeless situation. The hybrid in the U.S. allows for a strong amount of capitalism, with less of a safety net, despite our great national resources. WE need to find a mechanism to uplift our poor of all ethinicities and races. It should be made clear that a reasonable safety net, in no way resembles Soviet Communism.

-Wayne

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


........................................

Zerocracy
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#20 Bader

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Posted 18 May 2003 - 09:09 AM

One could ask what kind of number 1 are we really talking about.
The playground bully in the global village or the best society to live and raise a family in?
After seventy odd years trapped in an experiement, initiated from abroad by the planets mentals, one can't expect the Russians to get it all together in a decade, more so after being plundered by the globalists hidding behind such lovely sounding policies like free market.
I would expect that they would have tremendous energy for
creativety after being crushed and distorted for so long. It may take a cultural revival to free this. I believe human resources are the greatest resource.
They have experienced the worst of the extreme left and right
so perhaps within a cultural revival they will find a sane
alternative and I wouldn't be looking at a vege soup of Scandanavian bits and pieces nor have everybody riding bikes on special highways.
Growth can only come from stopping the bleeding- corruption,
debt and foreign investment.
In my country our biggest export is profits from foreign investment. A mere 6% is reinvested by the foreign investors.
When is the penny going to drop, isn't it strange how every country needs foreign investment to progress, just like every
country has to sell more than it buys. Both are absurd.
Picture a street of houses, every man goes out and mowes someone elses lawns in the street until some one had a brain wave and said hey, why don't we just stay home and mow our own!
Where does the money borrowed come from or originate that
is invested? It all begins as computer figures and not backed by gold or anything else tangible. A computer in Moscow is as good as any computer in New York or anywhere else for printing figures, so why pay interest on computer figures created overseas
when they can do it themselves for nothing?
Nations need to also move from ideologies with their smoke and mirrors to principles of truth and justice to be great societies.
Look at the U.S. doing the reverse, it won't be number one for too much longer because it has sown the seeds of its own destruction.
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