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#2021 Bader

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 08:36 AM

Howdy DonQ:
A different approach by David Marquand.

He said "but they (reasons for going to war) are neither
contemptable nor irrational"
I have to say they were contemptable as far as I am concerned
but irrational might not be the word.

It was even richer when he said: "why did he make a risible case for war.... when he could have made a serious one"
I find this incredible.
The future intentions of Hussein was part of the lies. There was no serious case to be made.
Blair was funded heavily by Jews to do a job when he ran for office. Wall ST and the City of London own the Alliance.
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#2022 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 02:29 PM

Donq; "Biscayne Bay: Playground or Dumpground?" It's about the terrible littering and danger of power boats*
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#2023 donquijote

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 10:39 PM

< A different approach by David Marquand.

He said "but they (reasons for going to war) are neither
contemptable nor irrational"
I have to say they were contemptable as far as I am concerned
but irrational might not be the word.

It was even richer when he said: "why did he make a risible case for war.... when he could have made a serious one"
I find this incredible.
The future intentions of Hussein was part of the lies. There was no serious case to be made.
Blair was funded heavily by Jews to do a job when he ran for office. Wall ST and the City of London own the Alliance. >

Howdy my good friend Bader, all
I ain't coming back in full force but I'll try to catch up. It's difficult though to get away from the fact of the lion. Even at work you see the jungle develop, and there's a power struggle right where I work.

I've been observing the fact that the lion makes other animals at the upper end of the food change (hyenas, foxes, snakes...) plot against each other and against the little animals in order to advance and grab a greater chunk of the LION SHARE. The simple fact of not having a power structure--such as a coop--could make life so easy on the little animals...

Anyways the war in Iraq could be risible--if it wasn't tragic. I think only children under 10 could swallow the story...;)
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#2024 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 11:10 AM

Donq;
<<The simple fact of not having a power structure--such as a coop--could make life so easy on the little animals... >>

Donq in Biscay hotel ; Did you change your job, I thought that you told us that you math teacher and you teach children two plus two
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#2025 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 11:55 AM

"Fight and decisively win in multiple, simultaneous theater wars". (Brzezinski)

But now I see that plan is halted and US deepens in sand and debts. Pyrrus victory .

<<<"The Iraqis tell us they don't want us here, but nor do they want us to go. It's very complicated," (Pentagon)
American officials say U.S. forces will be needed in Iraq long after a sovereign government is restored this summer,... Senior Pentagon officials said Thursday they were confident that the Iraqis, once given political control, would agree U.S. troops should stay. But some outside the government question whether that would hold true once an elected Iraqi government took over.
...if political control was turned over on July 1 to an Iraqi body that is not elected, it likely would align itself with U.S. objectives and therefore welcome a continued U.S. military presence. But once elections were held, the U.S. role would be in doubt.
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's chief spokesman, Larry Di Rita, told reporters at the Pentagon that there is a "fairly confident belief" that most Iraqis accept the U.S. view that American troops will be needed over the long haul to ensure a stable transition to democracy.
U.S. troops also will be engaged in combat as long as the insurgency remains active..... Balance Foucault ha, ha ha
For planning purposes, the Army is assuming it will have to keep roughly 100,000 troops in Iraq for at least another two years. >> intercepts; http://story.news.ya...id=540&ncid=716
Bush won Iraq like Napoleon n Moscow. Different only in Celsius degrees. .
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#2026 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 01:03 PM

OIL today is 35.90
Venezuelan Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said on Thursday OPEC's decision to reduce crude output from April remained firm and that the group could cut production again to defend prices.
"The decision to cut is firm. If we see the need to cut again, we will do it," he told reporters at a gas conference in the eastern coastal city of Cumana. http://www.reuters.c...toryID=4402539.

It is US result of attack on Venezuelan and Iranian presidents. .

"Fight and decisively win in multiple, simultaneous theater wars". (Brzezinski) .
Ha, ha ha.
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#2027 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 05:43 PM

I would be more interested in Clinton
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#2028 donquijote

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 10:02 PM

<<Donq; "Biscayne Bay: Playground or Dumpground?" It's about the terrible littering and danger of power boats*-..>>

<"Biscayne Bay is mass of water, but even small water reservoir as Silver Springs is invaded by power boats.
Unfortunately capitalism is more dangerous for environment than communism.>

Capitalism in as much it promotes consumption is perhaps the worse. Say in a perfect capitalist Utopia everybody would drive a gas-guzzling SUV. Forget about environmental damage and wars to secure oil. It's the stupid hungry lion at its worst. A recipe for trouble.

Communism though didn't have a very good record either. Although it promotes saving (the perfect citizen should be happy with having two pair of shoes) it misses in the megaplans of catastrophic proportions.

The best way would be a society where environmental education is widely promoted and *where perhaps crimes against the environment are elevated to the rank of terrorism*. Funny how the word "ecoterrorist" is applied liberally to those who use violence (however quetionable) against the intititutions that get involved in environmental destruction. Good use of the word "newspeak," to put it in Orwell's terms.;)

Anyways this was the article in question (which somehow never appeared in the Usenet groups where I posted them)...

Biscayne Bay: Playground or Dumpground?

One must wonder how nobody--or hardly anyone--does anything to stop
Biscayne Bay from becoming a dumpground. You sure find everything in
it: oil, bottles, cans, bags, old mattresses... The other day I even
found a boat battery lying on the sandy beaches of one of its
beautiful islands--if you can still call it such to an island buried
in litter...

Anyway, nobody seems to care--save for some cleaning day once a
year--that our last natural wonder is becoming another dumpground.
Perhaps the motorboats go too fast to notice the litter left behind;
perhaps the authorities have never thought of issuing tickets; perhaps
the politicians have never thought of educating. Yeah, enforcement and
education could do a lot toward saving Biscayne Bay. But who cares
about our own backyard when we are reminded everyday how bad things
are in Cuba? :(

Some interesting facts...

Saving the Biscayne Bay

It's situated between the Atlantic Ocean & Miami-Dade County. It's
home to wildlife like manatees, dolphins and pelicans. And it's a
playground for South Floridians who like to fish, boat and snorkel. On
any given day, Biscayne Bay is alive with activity. But pollution and
loss of natural habitat is a huge threat to these precious waters.
Discover the importance of Biscayne Bay and why it is so important to
life in South Florida on the next Down to Earth.

more...

http://www.miamidade...ayne_saving.asp

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
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#2029 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 12:51 AM

Donq; <<One must wonder how nobody--or hardly anyone--does anything to stop Biscayne Bay from becoming a dumpground. You sure find everything init: oil, bottles, cans, bags, old mattresses... >>>

This Donq concern for clean Biscayne Bay is rather funny in light of US destroying Babylon and other cities 4 thousand years old and environmental degradation of Iraq, Afghanistan or Yugoslavia by cluster bombs or depleted Uranium.
So far UK doesn
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#2030 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 01:20 AM

History doesn
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#2031 Bader

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Posted 22 February 2004 - 01:29 AM

Howdy Pliny,DonQ, Woj and all:

The Orwellian sealed Train to Utopia.

Found some quotes from Psychiatrist Brock Chisholm former chief of WHO.
"The responsibility for charting the necessarychanges in human behavior rests clearly on the sciences working in that field. Psychologists, psychiatrists,sociologists, economists, and politicians must face this responsibility...
"The prejudice, isolationism, the ability emotionally and uncritically to believe in unreasonable things...... They are all well known and recognised neurotic symptoms....
"When we see neurotic patients showing these same reactions
to their private affairs we may also throw up our hands and say
"human nature" .... or we may go to work to try to help the person in trouble to grow up over again more successful than his parents were able to do...
"Mans freedom to abserve and think freely....has been destroyed or crippled by local certainties, by gods of local moralities, of local
loyalty, of personal salvation.... frequently masquerading as love...
"The re-interpretation and eventually eradication of the concept of right and wrong which has been the basis of child training....these are the belated objectives of practically all effective psychotherapy.
"If the race is to be freed from its crippling burdon of good and evil, it must be pychiatrists who take the original responisibility....
"Can such a program of re-education or of education be chartered?"'

Well UNESCO shows that is has, and much more.
Reminds one of the MAO China re-education programme/camps, but which probably shadowed an earlier model in the Soviet Union.

THe author
(http://www.crossroad...PHIde10-98.html)

went on to show the cross polination of this ideology in the
Clinton admin-
"Re-education is key to preparation of human resources for the
"Sustainable Communities" outlined by the Presidents Council on Sustainable Development. Everyone must embrace the beliefs and values needed for global unity and confidence with the national-international management described in its report, Sustainable America.

"The attitudinal and behavioral changes Dr Chisholm recommends have become the primary goals of UNESCO's program for lifelong learning is being implemented in our American schools through Goals 2000. To finish the transformation according to the blueprint for Total Quality Management every human resource must be assessed, monetored, and re-educated when found non-compliant. The rate of change must measured. A reliable person identifier is essential to efficient, standardised, and inclusive TQM monitroing system".
He wen ton to talk about ID cards etc.

Brave New World/1984 is here!

http://www.crossroad...urfur12-98.html

should be read in conjunction with the above to get a broader picture of the web of cross fertilization through the Implementation of Human Rights Treaties signed by Clinton.
In the UNESCO definition of Tolerance (eg the right and wrong hang-ups of the past civilisation like the Ten Commandments which are now banned from US courts) shows how far the cross
polination has gone.
One of the principles of the National Defense Strategy is basically the same as one of the points of Tolerance:
"Promote rational tolerance ((really means intolerance)) teaching methods that will address the cultural, social, economic, political and religious sources of intolerance- major root of violence and expulsion."
The NDS claims that fundamentalist religious based societies,
eg Muslim, are breeding grounds for terrorism.
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#2032 Pliny

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 06:03 PM

Very interesting post there, Bader.

Looks like everyone of any import is getting on board for the implementation of the "sustainable community" on a planetary level. Unt you vill be happy!
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#2033 Bader

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 06:20 PM

That seems o be the most common way major wars are started
in the last century.
Operation Northwoods was taken out of the closet after Sept11
as soon as things didnt add up.
Marshall Law is an option and probably has been prepared for
since FEMA was established. Franks was probably being quite frank about the closeness of the use of the option. Its easier to do it if its already talked about and if further talk is generated
they can put fear into people about armed patriot militia etc and the private ownership of firearms.
If Marshall Law was declared one of the first things they would do is declare private ownership of firearms a life sentence crime
and all the known leaders of the ultra-right and all the patriot
groups will be swooped on within hours. The US have already witnessed Waco, the little holocaust, and we know how the main
media mogals will feed the public to keep them on side with the
criminals running the show.
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#2034 Pliny

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Posted 23 February 2004 - 07:26 PM

>>>and we know how the main
media mogals will feed the public to keep them on side with the
criminals running the show.<<<

Well put. I hope we have a few more years left, I have some preparation work to do.

I suppose the US election will be a critical factor this time around.
I think the "criminals running the show" are getting itchy about bringing this dream to a conclusionbut I think their haste will be their undoing. I feel they still need another generation to "educate" and then there will be less need for militaristic action.

Another thought I had is that we know religion has been targetted for eradication and is to be replaced with secular humanism but the fly in the ointment is the expansion of the Muslim religion on the global scene. As Brock Chisholm would have said, "the ability emotionally and uncritically to believe in unreasonable things...they are all well known and neurotic symptoms." and this belies the intent to eradicate religion.
So what to do about these neurotic individuals? If they won't denounce their beliefs and accept secular humanism I suppose they will be termed mentally ill and treated as such. The Social Sciences - another useful tool being used to bring about a totally engineered civilization.
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#2035 donquijote

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:42 AM

Hi all
I've been trying to get away from it all...but wherever I go I find the Lion. This time around it was a homeless person that triggered the incident. When I moved where I live over a year ago, the neighborhood was awashed in littering and drug pushing. I don't live right in the Jungle though. I live right in the limit between the Rich and Famous, where *life is beautiful*, and the *deep jungle*, and we little animals of a certain level often pay the consequences: cars broken into, the occasional armed robbery and so on. The littering went away--because I campaigned--but the other stuff remained and now we got a new problem: the homeless--thousands of them in the downtown area--have decided to settle camp, some choosing the now clean beautiful green area across my apartment. Sure enough I protested once again, and one after the other the homeless have been removed by the police up to now, somewhat reluctantly but effectively nonetheless. Tonight though I found a homeless squattering in front of my home and I called the cops once again, only that I wasn't ready for a little surprise. The woman cop turned out to be very aggressive...toward me! She blamed me for being heartless, and that I should even share my drink with him. At one point she shouted at me not to touch her--I didn't--and walked toward me, but me knowing how much the Lion wants the Monkey to put on the lion suit, backed away from confrontation...;)

Anyways we now got new neighbors with whom we--not the politicians who never see them--should share everything. And I'm ready to pack up and go. Where? I don't know, somewhere I don't suffer from the Jungle. I do NOT believe though that we should give the fish to the people--that would be communism, wouldn't it?--but should teach them how to fish. *We should have a society where there should be no homeless*, not because they were put in some rundown shelter, but because they were given some opportunity to help back to society and themselves, even if it is in a small way.

First is the story of the Law of the Jungle (I almost became the Monkey in the story) and then the solution for the homeless people.

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always getting the LION SHARE, and seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all the species of the jungle, demanded JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching, said, "You would have to have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the Monkey, who was very clever, devised a plan: He would go to the costume store, and look like a lion...

When the Lion saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a match for him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --before the indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And that's how the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...

NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...

The Homeless...

http://webspawner.co...rs/donquijote19

more stories...

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
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#2036 Pliny

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 05:53 AM

Sounds like you have more of an issue with human behavior than political and economic problems?

Changing political ideologies does not change human behavior.
You will see the same social problems under any political ideology.

Capitalism tolerates it and leaves it alone or up to charity, which at least doesn't exacerbate the problem. Totalitarianism eliminates the individuals. Democracy, which mixes capitalism with Socialism, leaves the problem to the State which regulates and worsens problems.
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#2037 donquijote

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 03:21 AM

<Sounds like you have more of an issue with human behavior than political and economic problems?

Changing political ideologies does not change human behavior.
You will see the same social problems under any political ideology.

Capitalism tolerates it and leaves it alone or up to charity, which at least doesn't exacerbate the problem. Totalitarianism eliminates the individuals. Democracy, which mixes capitalism with Socialism, leaves the problem to the State which regulates and worsens problems. >

Howdy Pliny
We seem to be playing with names here, and I noticed you chastizing "humanism" as a master plan to take over the world. James Lerner, the first humanist mayor of Curitiba, changed the city for good and *put the homeless to work*. I like a hands on approach. What works, works. I too name my solution Humanism, though you can name it "Banana Revolution," and indeed I do.;)

I do think that the Jungle makes the human being so much worst. I just watched the movie "Herod's Law" and it proves the point. A naive new mayor is forced into corruption beyond any other. Herod's Law can be summed up as, "F*** Them or Get F***ed!"

A SOLUTION (Curitiba, Brazil)

Under the "garbage that's not garbage" program, 70% of the city's trash
is recycled by its residents. Once a week, a truck collects paper,
cardboard, metal, plastic and glass that has been sorted in the city's
homes. The city's paper recycling alone saves the equivalent of 1,200
trees a day. As well as the environmental benefits, money raised from
selling materials goes into social programs, and *the city employs the
homeless and recovering alcoholics* in its garbage separation plant.

***Don't give them the fish (or worse, ignore them) but teach them how to fish!***

And now, Herod's Law (I highly recommend it)...;)

A tiny backwater where the largely Indian population has not learned Spanish because a previous mayor sold everything in the school except the walls (no one wanted those), San Pedro has a priest (Guillermo Gil) who demands on-the-spot payment for blessings. And it has only one thriving business: a brothel run by a feisty madam named Do?a Lupe (Isela Vega).

A true bumpkin who actually believes the PRI's propaganda about its revolutionary heritage and its mantra of bringing "modernity and social justice" to the hinterlands, Vargas initially tries to reform his new community.

But *faced with a political and social system that is rife with avarice and gluttonous from top to bottom, Vargas slides into mendacity, almost imperceptibly at first but then with a vengeance that shows him to be the most apt of pupils* [notice: the Jungle makes the Lion]. Armed with a revolver and a copy of Mexico's laws, described by a superior as a license to mint money, he embraces PRI-sanctioned corruption with an avidity that is breathtaking.

full review...

http://www.calendarl...0,6757164.story

PS: All my postings yesterday--over 20--on newsgroups were censored. The Patriots seem to be doing a good job against the Scuds...
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#2038 Pliny

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 05:28 AM

With this I agree.

>>>A SOLUTION (Curitiba, Brazil)

Under the "garbage that's not garbage" program, 70% of the city's trash
is recycled by its residents. Once a week, a truck collects paper,
cardboard, metal, plastic and glass that has been sorted in the city's
homes. The city's paper recycling alone saves the equivalent of 1,200
trees a day. As well as the environmental benefits, money raised from
selling materials goes into social programs, and *the city employs the
homeless and recovering alcoholics* in its garbage separation plant.

***Don't give them the fish (or worse, ignore them) but teach them how to fish!*** <<<

Some people have trouble coping but most if given the proper education and materials can fend for themselves.

There are few lions, Donq, we have to learn to recognize them and ensure they do not leave chaos intheir wake?
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#2039 Bader

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 07:13 AM

Teach them how to fish. Sounds like the primative parts of Africa
or up the Amazon.
Whats the point of knowing how to fish when the 5% who own the world have taken the fish away from the rest. I say bring back the fish.
They dont need an opportunity to get back to society. Society had been stolen from them, I say bring back society to everyone.
But I do get the point and agree but there is another sadder
side which I am aluding to- well shall I say its a bigger picture of the same.

Did you post something about the Grameen Bank in Bangaladesh,
DonQ, some time back- micro-lenders- providing funds to the little people of the jungle to the tune of 4 billion, the commercial banks acknowledge them but but not respect them. Muhammed Yunus the founder said "leave it to the people. They can take care of themselves. You dont have to shed tears for them. They are very capable." Yunus is healping to bring society back to the
stranded.
I came across it recently but didnt record the site address.

Pliny: Checkout these websites, in particular the second which is about Louis McFadden who really exposed the Fed and appears to have been sent on to heaven to silence him.

http://www.rumormillnews.com
http://www.wealth4fr.../2/McFadden.htm

I encourage you Woj to checkout McF and the Fed, this guy is sharp and incredibly perceptive regarding the subtlies of the money system, blows me away.
The Fed was formed in 1913 in time I suspect for the great event of 1917- sealed train and all- you know what. Notice today this
empire still stands all over the greatest nation in the world while
the Soviet Union is history.
Israelis need to take note. Money can create a nation/govt/regime out of nothing and as a god can just as easily take it away.

"religion is being targeted for eradication" - to be replaced by secular humanism.
I disagree. That was what the Soviet Union was about. It failed.
The regime has expired while the Orthodox Church suffered and probably grew stronger. History shows persecution slims it down
into a durable rock that outlasts the persecutor.
The Rockefellers and the Vatican and others have a world religion
in the making.
THe Illuminati/Jesuits/Zionists/Masons and fellow travellers like
the Bonesman related to the Thule Society and Barvarian sects
etc etc are satan worshipers.
Weishaupt a Jewish Jesuit the founder of the Illuminati and the Rothschilds banking enterpise both started in Frankfurt.
You can read about it in the article I referred to regarding Kerry
the bonesman along with Bush-
http://www.BarryCham...glish/Kelly.htm

According to Albert Pike, Brigadier General, Southern Army, 1809-
1891, who was appointed head of the Western Illuminati by Mazzini who headed the East, a leading revolutionary in Europe
Pike planned the NWO to come out of chaos of three world wars
and one objective is to ultimately eliminate christians and athiests. Obviously because they would not worship Satan.
Humanism is hear to stay as part of the fabric of the NWO
just as aspects of communism and fascism.
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#2040 Pliny

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 05:41 PM

Thanks for the sites. Rumourmill, I'm aware of, the Mcfadden one looks interesting but don't have time to peruse it now.

>>>"religion is being targeted for eradication" - to be replaced by secular humanism.<<<

I still contend it is an objective and is slotted to become the State religion not Luciferianism (although the only shrine in the UN is Luciferian). Remember according to BRock, religions are a neurosis.
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