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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#2041 donquijote

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 08:37 PM

>>>***Don't give them the fish (or worse, ignore them) but teach them how to fish!*** <<<

<Some people have trouble coping but most if given the proper education and materials can fend for themselves.>

Howdy Pliny
Exactly. There's a bounty in Nature and an advance in technology that make it possible for *everybody on this Earth* to have a decent standard of living. There's no shortage of food, there's mishandling in distribution and corruption, some of it by oversight some by design. However taking things away from the lions would only last for a short while, and would create us an enemy we don't need. If the lions need their power trips and some of the trappings of power, that's OK, so long as they don't eat the little animals.;) Of course, the little animals are going to learn to cooperate in order to escape from the big lions.

<There are few lions, Donq, we have to learn to recognize them and ensure they do not leave chaos intheir wake? >

I think their main trait is that they don't want COMPETITION.

What makes a Lion a Lion?

Firstly, there's the first type of lion that upon being confronted with the pitiful state and insecurity of the jungle, will choose to cooperate... This is NOT a lion, he becomes ones of us.

Secondly, there's the type that would deny to cooperate, but who upon being told that we don't need him to do anything, and that the little animals will build their own water well, will choose to remain neutral. This is not a bad lion either, as he understands the needs of the little animals and accepts competition.

Lastly, it's the lion who fails either to join the little animals or remain neutral, and doesn't want the little animals to prosper and won't accept competition. This is the REAL BAD LION, Satan himself indeed...
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#2042 donquijote

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 08:44 PM

<Did you post something about the Grameen Bank in Bangaladesh,
DonQ, some time back- micro-lenders- providing funds to the little people of the jungle to the tune of 4 billion, the commercial banks acknowledge them but but not respect them. Muhammed Yunus the founder said "leave it to the people. They can take care of themselves. You dont have to shed tears for them. They are very capable." Yunus is healping to bring society back to the
stranded.
I came across it recently but didnt record the site address.>

Howdy Bader
I remember something about it. That can part of the solution. Some people could find their way out of the jungle given the proper FUNDS, some given the proper EDUCATION, some given the proper SHELTER (kibbutz, etc).

The BEST OPTION IS...TO HAVE OPTIONS!
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#2043 donquijote

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Posted 25 February 2004 - 08:51 PM

http://engforum.prav...?threadid=63071
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#2044 Bader

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Posted 26 February 2004 - 09:12 AM

To give a means to catch fish in relation to funds is to reform the money system so everybody gets their fair share of the funds (best symbolised by the waterhole).
Fishing in relation to education while it appears to be an example of it, the system is for many but the system is co-related to the money regime and favours the compliant drones. Education should teach people how to think, develop their minds, which
would of course create problems for the Lion and the system based on a single (fraudulent) waterhole. Education should be provided according to the ability/potential of individual not according to family funds. After all who owns knowledge?
Shelter is best when it is affordable which relies on the money system being reformed to serve not enslave. If people choose to create coop life styles with their funds that is part of choice made possible by funds. No money - nothing happens.
No financial freedom, no freedom of choice, no voting with feet and wallet.
Philosophically socialism is about providing fish- making it illegal
for the individual to be able to catch fish when where, how many ones likes.

State religion:
Humanism is all pervasive, but so is new age religious-green-nature worship, and then there is the Harry Potter pied-piper which is full of hardcore witchcraft, (as is Lord of the Rings as was Star Wars, the clash between white and black magic. The Bonesman are part of black magic) which has captured the young generation worldwide. Some have claimed Marx was a satanist and i wouldnt be supprised if Lenin was as well.
Monuments and city layouts in the US are Masonic, Kennedy was
"crucified" at one such site. The recently built Israeli Supreme Court has the same Lucifarian symbols incorporated into it, seen from the air, as on the US dollar.
Obviously there will be diversity to suit the various types, not everyone is consciously religious and most in the various Orders
wouldnt know who they are worshiping, even to the point of
not being conscious of actually worshiping.
When the Kingdom of babylon broke up with the great dispersion,
as recorded around the world as well as the Bible, the beliefs
were scattered and lost some of their features while some parts remain similar. The formal religions of east and west will merge again and the most likely central figure will be the queen of heaven (again), who in pagan Rome was renamed Mary when Constantine passed the law making christianity the state religion.
A world church/religion is being worked out just as the WTO etc,
regardless of the beliefs of Brock who is the past generation
whoes role was to break up French, British empires and nationalism, sovereignty and established independant trans-national religions-morals and values (to be cancelled by "none are right or wrong"-precondition for One World Church), one of the legacies of the Chisholm philosophy is the homosexuals invasion of the church and traditional family, all in order for the capstone to be placed on the top of the pyramid of mankind in (new world) order and submission.
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#2045 donquijote

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Posted 27 February 2004 - 10:03 PM

<Can I please wait in a line 3 miles long for bread? Or can I please be sent to the gulag in one of the purges that took place int he old soviet union....schwaaaaa,pscht!! I prefer the jungle,I get to practice the theory of darwinism which you leftist rejects indoctrinated me with ,Funny thing is you rejects expect me to buy into that darwinian crap without applying it to everyday life. You lefties made your bed ,now lay in it losers,survival of the fittest,you're in the jungle BABY ,YOU GONNA DIE!!!!! >

Survival of the fittest (or the meanest) forgets another fact of Evolution: COOPERATION.

"Cooperation Among Animals: An Evolutionary Perspective"

Editorial Reviews
Despite the depiction of nature as "red in tooth and claw," cooperation is actually a widespread attribute in the animal kingdom. It's the modern-day evolutionary biologists and behavioral ecologists who are embroiled in debate over why animals cooperate. Various types of cooperative behaviors have been documented in everything from insects to primates, and in every imaginable ecological scenario. Among such behaviors, the four discussed in this book are reciprocal altruism, kinship, group-selected cooperation and byproduct mutualism. Hundreds of studies on cooperation are reviewed in a wide array of taxa. This work includes, but is not limited to, cooperative hunting, anti-predator behavior, foraging, coalition formation, grooming, helpers-at-the-nest, territoriality, "policing" behavior, and group thermoregulation.

http://www.amazon.co...3910923-0072601
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#2046 donquijote

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Posted 27 February 2004 - 10:33 PM

<To give a means to catch fish in relation to funds is to reform the money system so everybody gets their fair share of the funds (best symbolised by the waterhole).
Fishing in relation to education while it appears to be an example of it, the system is for many but the system is co-related to the money regime and favours the compliant drones. Education should teach people how to think, develop their minds, which
would of course create problems for the Lion and the system based on a single (fraudulent) waterhole. Education should be provided according to the ability/potential of individual not according to family funds. After all who owns knowledge?
Shelter is best when it is affordable which relies on the money system being reformed to serve not enslave. If people choose to create coop life styles with their funds that is part of choice made possible by funds. No money - nothing happens.
No financial freedom, no freedom of choice, no voting with feet and wallet.
Philosophically socialism is about providing fish- making it illegal
for the individual to be able to catch fish when where, how many ones likes.>

Howdy Bader
Education should emphasize the free *exchange of knowledge* (Internet being the best tool) and building of the water well. This what I mean it should be...

In Denmark in the second half of the 1800's, there were special
preconditions for the success of the cooperative movement and the fast
increase in the number of cooperative enterprises - first the dairies
and soon thereafter the slaughterhouses.

"N.F.S. Grundtvig and the Danish folk high school are always mentioned
as an important part of the background of the success of the cooperative
movement. The folk high schools are schools for adults, where the
students reside during the course period,
e.g. 6 months. Many farmers' sons went to the folk high schools, where
*they not only dealt with concrete knowledge, but also emphasized the
free word, conversation, discussion, history, social debate and active
participation in the decisions of the democracy. The folk high schools
promoted the conscious mental life*. The young farmers understood that
they were responsible for their own future. In this way the human basis
for the cooperative movement was ready. The basis of knowledge was also
present, partly because of the general obligatory school in Denmark and
partly because of the agricultural schools."

http://www.google.co...ebtv.net&rnum=3
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#2047 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 02:38 AM

Bader: Recycling citizens into trash ;
.You are right , example of these
*****Under the "garbage that's not garbage" program, 70% of the city's trash is recycled by its residents***** or
***Don't give them the fish (or worse, ignore them) but teach them how to fish!***bla, bla.

Isn
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#2048 Bader

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 04:11 AM

and the evolution perspective.
Is this some sort of sales pitch? The ant community, all looking exactly the same running around so industrious for the "common"
good (do ants have queen ants like bees?) like 1950s China and everyone running around in Mao suits is not progress, and now that the "mao" suit with a corporate logo on it and everyone runningaround impressing the CEO to avoid loosing jobs in restructuring, even working for nothing after hours is also a
a sporting example of cooperation but where is the progress for
those other than the Ceos etc and the shareholders?
There is evolution, just look at the gradual expanding working hours to hold the same standard of living- the free market is evolving into a new enlightened form of feudalism. And we are not eating one another!
Pity the academics dont live in the regular world. Like economists they are paid (rewarded by the Lion) too much to experience the
effects/results of their cooperation with the Lie-on.

Regarding GMOs Woj there is a concern that the likes of SARS
the man made "terrorist" has the ability to genetically evolve so
that it cannot be run down and captured/eliminated by the the
bio-physists many of whom have died in aircrashes/disappeared and murdered in recent times. Jumping the fence between the
different species is part of the concern. Remember the bio-diversity Treaty needs the planets population to reduce by two thirds.
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#2049 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 04:14 AM

Donq; <<<<No financial freedom, no freedom of choice, no voting with feet and wallet.
Philosophically socialism is about providing fish- making it illegal
for the individual to be able to catch fish when where, how many ones likes.>

Freedom and tolerance and secular humanism is visible most in case of AIDS. This illness which is drastically dangerous for humanity grows to monstrous size because capitalism refuses to act.
Instead of providing people nice places to live in isolation and treatment, capitalism let spreading the deadly illness world wide. I am not taking about way of fighting lepers cases only of isolation treatment for tuberculosis. Only Germany escaped from easy way of protection of
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#2050 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 05:16 PM

Pliny/Donquixote ;<<<<Capitalism tolerates it and leaves it alone or up to charity, which at least doesn't exacerbate the problem.>>>

It is not true. Charity is capitalistic tool ; just to smooth the surface and delay meaningful solution.

<<,Totalitarianism eliminates the individuals.>>... It is true and false;

US eliminated Saddam Hussain but supports Dalaj Lama whose residence has 1000 rooms.
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#2051 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 01:36 AM

Bader; "The attitudinal and behavioral changes Dr Chisholm recommends have become the primary goals of UNESCO's program for lifelong learning is being implemented in our American schools through Goals 2000. To finish the transformation according to the blueprint for Total Quality Management every human resource must be assessed, monitored, and re-educated when found non-compliant.

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#2052 Bader

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 05:54 AM

Slow down Woj that was me not DonQ who made the point that supplying fish is the socialist solution to needs supply (and thus
dependance on state power) while teaching people to be self
supporting is (dare I use the term capitalist- dependance on fraudulent money power), free enterprise.
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#2053 Bader

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 09:49 AM

vector of life conditions...."
This sounds like relativety and situational ethics and the liberal left humanism, to effect nothing right and nothing wrong.
So might is thus right- if you have the power to dictate to politicians academics and the media you determin what is acceptable/situation, like crimes against humanity in Yugoslavia and Iraq.
In Iraq Saddam and his sons determined what was acceptable or not since it was their situation.
World govt will not tolerate any no-right-no-wrong attitude towards its laws, such will be terrorism. That will be the situation
and all life will be lived relative to its absolute laws and enforcement as in the communist countries. Take Uzbekistan
close friend of the US, run by neo-Stalinist Karimov where political prisoners are tortured and murdered. Situation is different there
from Husseins Iraq because Uzbec is compliant, so it is right to
invade and get rid of a terrible dictator in Iraq and it isnt right or wrong to deceived the world to do so, because might is right even when it might be percieved as wrong, its all relative according to the situation, as thus the mainstream western media projects it all.
Bringing order out the chaos of nothing is right or wrong is the morality of the NWO. The means justifies the end and the end justifies the means.
We dont need brains or education, just pretend we already have them.

Checkout the World Future Council Initiative, to create a global senate of popular figures/wise elders likes of Gorbachev, Mendella, Kissinger, Carter, Clinton etc which is an exercise in global morality which seeks to ultimately monitor/ensure govts and global corporations comply with UN policy and world summit agreements. Just a tool for world govt by "popular" vote, everyone will get to vote for someone whom will then not be accountable to the voters just as in popular "democricy".
http://www.worldfuturecouncil.org
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#2054 donquijote

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 01:38 PM

<Haiti actually exported alot of their forest to hungry consumers like USA and Europe.

Brazil is exporting, when the Brazilian forest is almost gone, dont you think the Global demand of timber will but presure on Costa Rica to deforest? If Costa Rica ends up the only country with rainforests left and USA is very desperate for timber, what do you think will happen?

Same as USA always does! Just wait and see. >

Howdy Paridise
I know, it'll be called "Operation Costa Rica Freedom"...

Anyways, Haiti's forests went up in smoke mostly because they were so poor that were forced to use the wood for cooking. Poverty and/or illiteracy are aggravating factors, and we can safely say the most sustainable societies are the ones with the best education. I'd think of Scandinavia here. Though America proves that a wealthy society can also be harsh on the environment. Probably they see waste as a symbol of patriotism...

Here's a example of how a society can be *fair* and yet be highly *creative*...

'play hard or soft, provide net'

The way I see it, the current system fails at discouraging taking risks, as you may end up sleeping under a bridge. Say you come up with a new small business and it goes under or choose to leave your job to pursuit something more to your liking only to find out you can't have ends meet... It's pretty much like a circus with the same old show because the acrobats refuse to break their neck by making the slightest mistake or worst paying for somebody else's mistakes since there's no net down there.

A better system though would encourage COMPETITION while providing a safety net. Likewise there should be more than one way to be "successful," as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The beauty of the circus would be in the balance of the act, not in the acrobats only. That would be as good as the Moscow Circus indeed.:)

This would be a type of competition worth it of having...

'Critics charge that humans
are naturally competitive animals -- after all, they evolved that way.
To create a perfectly cooperative society, they charge, is both
impossible and utopian. This is certainly true, but fortunately, there
is a way around it. Competition for survival is only one of the many
thousands of ways that humans compete. Humans also fulfill their
desire
to compete through games, sports, contests, social status, career
status, academic status, even mating. Eliminating the need to compete
for survival would hardly eliminate the countless other ways that
humans
compete. Competition could still be used to improve society, even a
sustainable one.'
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#2055 donquijote

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 01:49 PM

<Pity the academics dont live in the regular world. Like economists they are paid (rewarded by the Lion) too much to experience the
effects/results of their cooperation with the Lie-on.>

<<<This work includes, but is not limited to, cooperative hunting, anti-predator behavior, foraging, coalition formation, grooming, helpers-at-the-nest, territoriality, "policing" behavior, and group thermoregulation.>>>

Howdy Bader
Right on the money. Against their "cooperative hunting" and the "policing behavior," we got to present the "anti-predator behavior" and the "coalition formation"...

The lion is very much cooperative...in the hunting!;)
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#2056 donquijote

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 01:54 PM

<It is not true. Charity is capitalistic tool ; just to smooth the surface and delay meaningful solution. >

Woj, once in a while we agree, and when we do, we do it in a big way. I just witnessed an army of homeless this morning being fed by the "Christian" church. Oh, Hallelujah playing on the background...;)
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#2057 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 02:08 PM

Bader; "morality is a summary...
vector of life conditions...."
This sounds like relativety and situational ethics and the liberal left humanism, to effect nothing right and nothing wrong.

Bader; Your problem is that you can not accept situation that Christianity is on shopping spree and It accepts any situation when prize is right. I don
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#2058 Bader

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 06:40 PM

I agree with your all your reflections Woj, I see the degradation
and other forms of Jewish propoganda etc , the phoney Holy See
etc. A point I have been making is that the same mindset that
operated through the left East is the same in the so called capitalist-free West. Evolution, humanism, comparing humans with animals so we dont expect to be any better, fighting over the same bone-the dialectic construct. Thats why I condemn both communism and capitalism, two sides of the same coin minted by the same international bankers. If you want to defend one side of the coin then ok thats my problem not yours.
Who enforced the crucifiction Woj? A religious or political power?
And you think all Christians are blind.

Similar situation regards the environment. Debt is destroying,
denuding the planet and no politcal response is going to clear
the debt. The inevitable result will be world govt to force a solution which is what the international bankers want. They will sell us the rope we will hang ourselves with.
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#2059 sb11

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 11:06 PM

all peoples, all nations are number 1.. God indwells every being,
every country.. the sun touches every point of the globe
each day from outside.. but God's sun touches every point
of us from Inside
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#2060 Bader

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 12:12 AM

who stand against crimes against humanity in Jugoslavia and Iraq.
Nor do I, Woj.
I've discounted labels long ago.
Two million Hebrews and Eygptian hangers-on escaped with Moses from the Lion of Nth Africa. Two entered the Promised land after forty years, a trip that could have taken weeks to walk.
Only a minority of Judah in captivity were interested in returning to Jerusalem to rebuild a Temple. God used Meda-Persian Kings to initiate/authorise and fund it! Only a minority of their descendants who returned could recognise who Jesus was. The career religious leaders were the executioner of their Messiah and some of the Jewish Christian leaders. What's new?
It is claimed that the Holy See has the blood of seventy million
Christians on their hands. Look at the history of the Popes, their characters and murders, selling the right to sin for money.
Have you ever read what Jesus said to the relgious leaders when
he read them their pedigree?
It is logical that "Gods chosen people" and "The true Church of God" were going to be the most infiltrated and corrupted societies
on earth because of the (material) promises to Abraham.
Makes it easy to understand how the Zionists worked in with the Nazi to prevent Jews from escaping the trap because the Zionists needed a sacrifice (holocaust) to purchase a state for a bridgehead to the oil and gas rich world. Some believe they need a second one- nuclear holocaust in the Middle East to cast magic
again to create their world govt.
Was Hitler so crazy? What about the Bio-diversity Treaty and it
policy of reducing the planets population by several billion within
forty years? These enlightened people have to be part of the
Lucifarian Conspiracy who control money politics and religion.
Its by fruit not labels a tree is known.
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