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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#2101 Pliny

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 04:36 AM

Thanks for the links.

Rumormillnews I have perused but some of it is a little out there for me.

WVP has some interesting financial perspectives.
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#2102 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 01:53 PM

Fruit salad;
Motorola Inc, the world's second-largest cell phone maker, it was shutting its semiconductor chip-design units in Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, and moving them to India and China. http://www.reuters.c...storyID=4523949
Human rights contra rights of the money.:cool:

World Oil Prices Seen Stronger for Longer
remarkable OPEC cohesion have combined to sustain oil prices," "It depends on what OPEC does and how strict they will be, how far they implement their cut,"
:)
China is on the verge of agreeing with Islamabad to build a second nuclear plant in Pakistan for civilian usehttp://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/afp/20040309/wl_asia_afp/china_pakistan_nuclear_040309050610&e=1
The imminent deal comes despite the US repeatedly urging China to halt nuclear cooperation with Pakistan.
Observers have noted that Beijing's help in the second phase of the Chasma project would allow Islamabad to obtain enriched plutonium .
"Pakistan today successfully carried out the maiden test fire of the Shaheen 2 surface-to-surface ballistic missile," :cool:

http://news.yahoo.co...=index2&cid=732

BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro - Serbia's first major war crimes case suspect, Mirko Vojinovic died Monday at a prison hospital, a day before the start of the landmark trial..
"The mood in the newly elected parliament is such that some 60 percent of the lawmakers feel negatively toward war crimes trials and The Hague . Allies of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic made huge gains in the December vote, reflecting widespread disillusionment with the pro-Western leadership that has ruled the country since Milosevic's ouster in a popular revolt in 2000. :)

How to create a popular revolt ?

- A cargo plane impounded in Zimbabwe on suspicion of carrying 64 mercenaries is believed to have departed from South Africa. Preliminary investigations indicated the Boeing 727-100, which Zimbabwe authorities say is registered in the US, took off from Wonderboom airport, north of the capital Pretoria. It then continued north to Polokwane and on to Zimbabwe, where it was detained Sunday night at Harare International Airport
The plane and its passengers, most of them whites, were taken to a nearby military airfield. :o
In Washington, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Monday there was no indication the aircraft was connected to the U.S. government. President Robert Mugabe has repeatedly accused the US and Britain of plotting to overthrow his autocratic regime. http://story.news.ya...we_plane_seized

Funniest news today
Prime Minister Tony Blair's plans to overhaul Britain's age-old legal system :)
http://news.yahoo.co...=index2&cid=732
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#2103 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 02:22 PM

From vietnambob; Henchley tells part of the truth in Iraq... http://engforum.prav...?threadid=64908

*********I am in 2004. My throat will be slit either way over energy aka specifcally money and all sorts of people hoping to gain from this.

It's just really all that abyssmally simple believe it or not.

Some effect and most allow thermselves to be affected in a most horrible way. Pick whatever ideology you choose. Pick any nation from the four corners of the earth. Pick any reason.

In that mirror do you see a swastika, 50 white stars and 13 red and white stripes? Do you see a big Red Star? Or rather do you percieve a glorious entity as your hope?

Here's the point. What you saw from the four corners is really what you wanted to see. It made you feel better about your existance and to a degree of course, this is good.

But the flip side is other people already knew you were like this and they worked you to the max.

The sad facts are..it's high time to friggin change. Time for me and (sit down) time for you also.

Were you with Patton or Montgomery? Where did it matter?

The third Reich? Where did it matter?

The 77 days at Khe Sanh? Where oh where did it matter?

The answer as I see it. It never had a chance to matter to the ones really affected. You either run the board or you move along the squares at their beck.

This is fkn how it works in this world.

What does it really matter Timothy..who weilded the knife that caused you to die?

Wasn't living the important thing?***********


Who would answer these questions to me? Or maybe we are not human beings any more?
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#2104 donquijote

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 09:57 PM

<Pretty much so, attleast when then banks (elite) trick every nation to go in heavy debt.

Nations have no choice but to consume as much as possible to pay back debt. But maybe that is the system, a sick cash cow.


I have an eery feeling that this time around "ants" will be consumed before the inevitable crash of the "dinosaurs".

But lets hope it the other way around. >

Howdy PB
It's a matter of all the little animals getting together and deciding to come out of the jungle. The big animals at the top of the food chain have a big web of complicity meant to perpetuate the jungle, and only see a pretty picture--probably painted by their ally the snake in the big media.

The hope lies in the proles...

By the way, the good news is that thanks to capitalism I was able to buy a computer real cheap (so I'll have more time on the Internet); the bad news is the dictatorship you have to endure in the workplace...

'What does Ehrenreich mean by characterizing the low-wage workplace as a "dictatorship"? To what extent have the workplaces you've had experience with been similar or different? Do you think "dictatorship" in the workplace is a necessity?'

(snip)

'Americans like to think of the United States as a land of equal opportunity. Many believe that ambition and hard work are the keys to success. Taking into account both Nickel and Dimed and "Elite Boarding Schools: Curricula as Cultural Capital," what conclusions do you draw about these common images of American society? Be sure to provide evidence for the conclusions you draw.'

My conclusion is...that America is a Jungle.;)

http://camden-www.ru...2ehrenreich.htm
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#2105 donquijote

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 10:08 PM

Hi all
I haven't had much time lately but I'm not that necessary, am I? Anyways this new friend, PB, really knows how the jungle works and sounds so much like Bader. Another lion slayer?;)

I quote PB...

"Abraham Lincoln:

The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace
and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more
despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy
and more selfish than a bureaucracy. It denounces,
as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw
light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern
Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two,
the one at the rear is my greatest foe.

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves
me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.
As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned ....
An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money
power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the
prejudices of the people... until wealth is aggregated in a few
hands ... and the Republic is destroyed.




Abraham Lincoln new that the banks were a bigger enemy than other military enemies. If you allow banks too much power, the inevitable own everything and all governments become pupets to the banks.

Today in the USA, UK and many othe west societies there is a strong connection between money and state. This Abraham Lincoln (among others!) warned about. This is now a fact.

Money owns every one, and only the elite are free people:
until wealth is aggregated in a few
hands ... and the Republic is destroyed.

Lincoln says: until wealth is aggregated in a few hands (this is now a fact).

As we see, the people of USA (as example) has no control of their government even thought they won admit it.



The republic is IN FACT destroyed.



Abraham Lincoln percieved the inevitable which since long has been a fact.

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves
me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country."
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#2106 Pliny

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 04:00 AM

Good to hear from you!

>>>The republic is IN FACT destroyed.<<<

Ideas are not so easily destroyed. True - what made America great has been lost but it still lives in the hearts of many and it is not too late to restore it.

Lincoln did his best to bring the country to ruin. He had the government unconstitutionally print it's own money and favoured the northern industrialists by placing heavy tariffs on southern raw materials. The civil war was more about those tariffs than slavery.

He was right about the money powers but it looks like he inadvertantly fell into their hands. He financed the war with government bonds which were supposed to be honored but were not and when they fell to a fraction of their value the money powers bought the majority of theml up and then lobbied the government to honor them, which they did.

He wasn't the greatest President but probably the most fabled.
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#2107 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 02:38 PM

Humor;
The U.S.-picked Iraqi Governing Council signed the constitution on Monday in a key step toward the handover of sovereignty from the U.S.-led occupation authority to Iraqis

(Iraq sovereignty with US military in Iraq) :mad:

The USDA opposes private testing of beef for mad-cow disease, fearing it may cause confusion, but consumers are clamoring for it. :confused

Call Centers Flee Eastern Kentucky
The same technology that brought jobs to towns such as Hazard, Ky., can, in a flash, whisk them away to India
http://online.wsj.com/public/us :mad:

Polish speaking president Kwasniewski organizes in Warsaw European Forum in the Palace of Culture and Science ; Communist Stalin gift is the best place for capitalistic visitors. So far Warsaw objects. :o :

Trade deficit widened to to $43.1 billion in January
A small number of otherwise-traditional clergy are creating pet-friendly worship services as part of a larger movement among houses of worship to fill empty pews by offering amenities considered important to modern lives.:)
http://online.wsj.com/public/us
Do you think the U.S. is any closer to capturing bin Laden now than it was a year ago? :)
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#2108 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 03:35 PM

Algeria the country where US doesn-t want democracy-

France lost war in Algeria and in 1962 Algeria became independent. When in election was winning by Islam government, election was suspended and West supported army. This never elected government postponed the subsequent elections.. Since then , the military government canceled legislative elections to keep an Islamic party from coming to power.
In stake are Algerian resources
Natural resources:
petroleum, natural gas, iron ore, phosphates, uranium, lead, zinc

So West and particularly US are not bothered by lack of democracy in Algeria. ;
Now US says that al-Qaida could call on the wider Algerian diaspora in Europe or militants with Salafist links "who might be prepared to attack Western targets."

But isn't The Salafist group right in fighting to install an Islamic state in Algeria, where it is Algerians wishes.?
Why shouldn-t be Algerian Sunni Muslim 99% , govern the Algeria state ?
Doesn-t like US democracy in Algeria?
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#2109 donquijote

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:17 AM

<Good to hear from you!>

Likewise, Pliny.;)

>>>The republic is IN FACT destroyed.<<<

<Ideas are not so easily destroyed. True - what made America great has been lost but it still lives in the hearts of many and it is not too late to restore it.>

We haven't got that much left, but we can try...

Say for example, this piece of news: the lion feeds on the children who, without warning, and without free will, bite into their alluring advertising and become junk food junkies...:( What does the government do? You guessed right, it came on the side of the lion...:confused:

On that account alone, I would say America is a jungle...;)

House Backs Ban on Obesity Lawsuits
By Joanne Kenen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday overwhelmingly approved legislation nicknamed the "cheeseburger bill" that would block lawsuits blaming the food industry for making people fat.

(snip)

Critics said the bill sent a message to the food industry that it did not have to worry about public health. "That's the wrong message," said Massachusetts Democrat Rep. James McGovern (news, bio, voting record).

(snip)

The congressional debate comes as public health officials have sounded the alarm about the number of fat Americans -- including growing numbers of children. Overweight people face numerous health risks.

http://story.news.ya...ss_obesity_dc_9
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#2110 mtibbens

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 03:03 AM

I feel that for Russia to be #1 or even #2 again, two major things have to happen. These are only my opinions as an outside observer:

1) Internal war in Chechnya must end. Watching the battles that occur in Grozny and the surrounding areas on television constantly give the rest of the world a sour taste;

2) the Banking and Financial sectors must come under tighter control under the central bank. Foreigners, while interested in investing in Russia, approach with trepadition. Monolithic companies, such as Gazprom, are impressive but they also make people, American especially compare it to company troubles we are currently having and have had in the past. (ENRON, Standard Oil)

I feel that if positive progress is made in both of these areas, not only will Russia be in better standing in the foreign arena, but there may also be more internal peace, thus allowing a regrowth of power within Russia.

Michael Tibbens
Chicago, Illinois
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#2111 Pliny

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:34 AM

We must assume people are generally stupid to take your point of view. I guess we could chalk that up to the great public education everyone is getting.

The real culprits here are the health authorities. They have been
advising poor dietary habits for the past forty years. Take a good look at the food pyramid. The talk for the last forty years has been low fats. Granted there are bad fats - hydrogenated oils, trans fatty acids, but there are some that are essential to good health and after the sixties you never heard a peep about the ravages of sugar in the diet. This is a gross outpoint. The health authorities by pushing a low fat diet eliminate good proteins from peoples diets so what are they supposed to eat? Carbohydrates and sugar products fill the void. These foods are not only unhealthy for you but they make you feel hungry more often than not, so you end up eating more.

The problem is food producers lobbying government and making outrageous demands to keep their products in high profile. This is what occurs when government starts intervening in the market.
The food producers also promote their own studies and research
defending their products. They don't find anything negative of course. Pharmaceutical companies have caught on to this and hide any information about their drugs that is negative and submit only information to the FDA that is positive. No wonder things get skewed. Anyone with a vague sense of ethics would realize this is totally unacceptable. They dig their own graves I guess. When the truth comes out ppeople will avoid their products in droves and the FDA will cease to exist in it's current form. The same probably would happen in a free market but it definitely would not have lasted as long.

Government support of a product used to mean to people it had some modicum of value. Now it increasingly means nothing or some politician was bribed.

A sad state of affairs!
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#2112 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:29 PM

Who really presses in US for war?

****JEFF JACOBY; Time for regime change in Tehran
3/11/2004
IT HAS BEEN more than two years since President Bush pronounced Iran a charter member of the "axis of evil." In his 2002 State of the Union address, he told Congress that the theocratic regime in Tehran was aggressively pursuing nuclear weapons and exporting terror "while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom."
It has been 20 months since Bush issued a statement encouraging the thousands of prodemocracy demonstrators who had taken to the streets of Iran's major cities. "The people of Iran want the same freedoms, human rights, and opportunities as people around the world," he said, promising that if Iranians moved to replace their rulers with a government committed to liberty and tolerance, "they will have no better friend than the United States of America."
The US should long ago have made regime change in Tehran a clear-cut goal of US foreign policy Washington should be seizing every opportunity to identify the Khomeinists who rule Iran as illegitimate despots, and to make the case that their downfall is essential to the repair of the Middle East. If we are going to win the war on terror, the liberation of Iran is not an option. It is a prerequisite. The Bush administration should be saying so -- and living up to its words. http://www.boston.co...torial_opinion/

**********************************************
Boston Glob is not Bush 's newspaper it is from democratic Massachusetts as Karry, and it is affiliated with New York Times.


"The guy just looks presidential. And in this country I think it's all about the image."
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#2113 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:43 PM

mtibbens; Read political indicators;

When on political forum some writers nervously talk about lawsuits blaming the food industry for making people fat it means , that US matters are going from bad to worse
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#2114 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:54 PM

Fight for democracy;
Bombs may lead to democracy and president Bush decided to bomb Iraq
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#2115 donquijote

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 01:16 AM

<We must assume people are generally stupid to take your point of view. I guess we could chalk that up to the great public education everyone is getting.

The real culprits here are the health authorities. They have been
advising poor dietary habits for the past forty years. Take a good look at the food pyramid. The talk for the last forty years has been low fats. Granted there are bad fats - hydrogenated oils, trans fatty acids, but there are some that are essential to good health and after the sixties you never heard a peep about the ravages of sugar in the diet. This is a gross outpoint. The health authorities by pushing a low fat diet eliminate good proteins from peoples diets so what are they supposed to eat? Carbohydrates and sugar products fill the void. These foods are not only unhealthy for you but they make you feel hungry more often than not, so you end up eating more.

Government support of a product used to mean to people it had some modicum of value. Now it increasingly means nothing or some politician was bribed.>

Howdy Pliny
I gather you are in favor of the government's non intervention, but some may be necessary.

-BAN JUNK FOOD ADVERTISING on children television (the way it is in Scandinavia). Children have no say whatsoever--the way adult smokers do--in saying no.

-EDUCATE about what good food is. Most people think that anything on the supermarket shelves is good. They are in for a surprise.;)

-Last but not least, TAX JUNK FOOD TO SUBSIDIZE HEALTH FOOD. There are indeed options (and supermarket chains like "WholeFoods" and "Wild Oats" indeed prove the point) but the little people have neither the incentive nor the knowledge to shop there.

And of course, you got to offer the people the option to 'burn the calories'...;)
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#2116 donquijote

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 01:21 AM

<I feel that for Russia to be #1 or even #2 again, two major things have to happen. These are only my opinions as an outside observer:

1) Internal war in Chechnya must end. Watching the battles that occur in Grozny and the surrounding areas on television constantly give the rest of the world a sour taste;

2) the Banking and Financial sectors must come under tighter control under the central bank. Foreigners, while interested in investing in Russia, approach with trepadition. Monolithic companies, such as Gazprom, are impressive but they also make people, American especially compare it to company troubles we are currently having and have had in the past. (ENRON, Standard Oil)

I feel that if positive progress is made in both of these areas, not only will Russia be in better standing in the foreign arena, but there may also be more internal peace, thus allowing a regrowth of power within Russia.

Michael Tibbens
Chicago, Illinois >

Howdy Michael, welcome aboard;)
It's real easy: to make Russia #2, join the EU (it would beat the US in 20 years); but to make Russia #1, follow your own path, something new, perhaps along the lines of what's proposed here. Put the system to work for the people and not the other way around.
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#2117 mtibbens

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 03:30 AM

Joining the EU would definitely be a major plus for Russia. Once again, without some major reforms in the Banking and Financial sectors, I don't really see an invitation being extended. Do you? Its unfortunate because this puts Russia in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation." If they make too many reforms, they'll anger some countrymen and businessmen; if they don't no invitation. President Putin's recent shakeups in the cabinet and government have also raised many eyebrows around the world. As a student of history, this time reminds me of Russia during the early part of Peter the Great's reign. A slightly down time with an amazing breakthrough about to come. Quite exciting.
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#2118 Bader

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 06:34 AM

doesnt lie in ther direction everyone esle is trudging, its being themselves and pretty soon it will bea luxury to be ones self,
have sovereignty etc.
The UE is a lions club, there is no other well to drink at. Its all
about finance Lincoln was right.

Give us a bit more about the historical times of Peter the Great
Mtibbens. Mr Putin has referred to Peter the Great and his
power base in St Petersburg is a statement as well, so it should be interesting and he has pointedly said the days of Eurpoen interferrence in Russian affairs is over. A rare man indeed.

The rest of world leaders should be wearing short pants.
Emperor Bush of course wears no clothes.

WElcome back DonQ.

Sorry Pliny I have to disagree that Lincoln did his best to bring the US to ruin. I have to say when ever any nation turns to creat its own monmey the bank ahve always greatly increased their
supply and flooded the market and effected the economy in order to blame the govt and thus the lie still stands. Kennedy didnt quite get that far, they got rid of him. Lincoln could have borrowed the fraudulent money off the banks at between 24 and 36% I think it was and the taxpayers today would still be paying for it. The Australians printed their own money to fight the First World War. No debt not ruin.
It is the sovereign duty of any gotv tot ensure the people have their own currency and not borrow into debt.
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#2119 Bader

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 10:01 AM

Isnt it amazing how everyone needs anyone from another country to invest in someone elses country.
How does a country get ahead if the profits from the opportunities in their country is exploited by someone else?
Its a recipe for prepetual dependance.
In our country the biggest export is profits on investments and only 6% is re-invested in the country. If foreign shareholders cant get the returns they want they close down the industry.
Great way for Russia to get ahead, to put the system to work for the UE instead of the Russian people.

What would the capture of Bin Laden mean? We have the capture of Milosovic and Hussein- so what! All we have is repetition of the propoganda through he media barons which
is pretty tattered already.
We also have the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq so what will a further one on Iran do but add to the lies and crimes against humanity. Is someone suggesting Blair and Bush werent lying after all?
That there is nothing amiss about Sept 11 and all the evidence is
real?
When one is caught lying usually that means no credibility.
How much more in our faces has the most destructive side/forces been?

What about Spain. Aznar looses public support for licking US
boots, now the bombs just could make them think again!
Like Indonesia. Wouldnt fall into line behind Bushs war on terrorism and h?y two big bombs from terrorist for standing up against the US so now we know they are crazy, they must be crazy to do that, duh. Just like provoking the US into invading the middle east in exchange for a couple of buildings (who took out the others?) and even curteous enough to do it early morning instead of after ten when they could have killed tens of thousands more. All adds up.
Iran must have mad govt because it is run by religious people.
Bush on the other hand just happens to believe he is doing Gods service, now that different, the Iranian's God isnt the real God, right? So Bush's johad is a just one. God must be on his side because he won the war back in May last year, pity the US media barons dont publish/broadcats in Iraq, the public would all know its over and they wouldnt be fighting, they would realise they are all insurgents and leave their own country. It all adds down.
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#2120 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 01:56 PM

Impeachment of Roh is great success
for South Korea people in teaching their elected politician to keep their promises after election. :)
Cossack is right in seeing that oriental are wisest people. President Roh built a reputation as a human rights lawyer before he was elected as South Korea Roh promised to improve relations with communist North Korea and push for a more equal relationship with U S.
Roh, who once demanded an end to the U.S. military presence in South Korea, now says he supports it. :D http://story.news.ya...e_as/skorea_roh

Russia for now should rather stay out of EU. Too many US Trojan horses there; for example Solana, who helped US in attack on Yugoslavia or such individuals as polish speaking president Kwasniewski and Jose Aznar , thought last one might go rather to hiding place.:)
I personally believe that Dania support Chechnya
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