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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#2421 Bader

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 10:39 AM

The UN is as guilty of crimes against humanity as the US presidents and Blair.
The sanction were originally put in place to force Iraq to withdraw its army from Kuwait. It did, and the army and civilians in convoy
were all incinerated on what became known as the highway of death. The US didnt drive them out.
The US Amabador whom Hussein informally inquired as to the US
interest should he deal to Kuwait for drilling under their border stealing their oil, gave him a reply that said they werent interested. The relationship between the US and Hussein had been normal, ie supplying him with military equipment and
materials as Europena countries in his WMD programitiusme, suddely he was found enticed into a trap by the obliging Kuwaitis.
Sanction continued on the basis of the WMD and we know the rest- all based on lies since 1991. The 500,000 plus Iraqi childred that died from their crimes which Madeline Albright said was worth it, lies on the heads of the UN leaders as much as the US and UK.
Claiming Hussein abused the funds was US propoganda in the late nineties. The funds from Iraq oil sales were held by the UN against which
goods which were allowed, a criminal abuse at the expense of the civilians and children in paticular, never got into the hands of Iraq, it was all handled in NY by the US under the UN.
Bush is a wolf in wolfs clothing the UN is a wolf in sheeps clothing. The wolf is doing the dirty work after which the UN will
move to retore law and order (peace). Good cop - bad cop , nothing new here folks.

WE will investigate fraud - yeah like we are investigation WMD,
we know its all here somewhere, otherwise why would we say it.
For starters that famous hole in the ground where the Man was found was escavated by Haliburtons for 3 billion dollars which should have been spent on the children. Hussein could have built 3000 McDonalds with all menus subsidised for all children in need of a healthy diet right?
We intend to find out why permits were not issued for McDonalds
and if they were we want to know what happened to the permit fees, and we will continue to shoot Iraqi insurgents until someone comes forward and tell us.
On a more serious note, I read the other day the CIA plot to hide evidence of WMD to be found was a bummer, they got shot up by Coalition forces!

Will be away for a couple of days, will, catch up then.

I wonder DonQ if Pliny has gone fishing in the park teaching them how to look after themselves.
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#2422 donquijote

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 11:27 AM

<On a more serious note, I read the other day the CIA plot to hide evidence of WMD to be found was a bummer, they got shot up by Coalition forces!>

Howdy Bader
I think the situation is not very different from this...

BIG BOYS RULE

Little Rough Boy was standing outside the playground looking in, gone were the days when he was part of it all. Now--having broken the law--he wasn't allowed to join the game in which some big boys always set the rules and little boys always lost.

The sad thing is that Little Rough Boy had lots of good f'oil wrapped lunch that was envied by all the big boys, especially by Big Rough Boy.

So Big Rough Boy tells the other boys, "Look Little Rough Boy has a stick in his back pocket! He's going to smack someone over with it!" "Where?" they cry, "I can't see it!"

"Never mind now; I'll show you later," cries Big Rough Boy.

So he promptly walks up behind the much smaller Little Rough Boy and smacks him over and leans over the comatose body. Instead of standing up holding up the 'stick,' Big Rough Boy jumps joyously up in the air holding Little Rough Boy's f'oil wrapped lunch.

So now the other boys cry foul and when the wimpy teacher, Mrs Rubber Stamp, asked what happened, they were about to tell the truth, but Big Rough Boy bullies them and offers the teacher some scraps. They all accept and back Big Rough Boy, and as far as Mrs Rubber Stamp is concerned Big Rough Boy was right in smacking over Little Rough Boy.

A few voices still ask the whereabouts of the 'stick' that couldn't be found on Little Rough Boy's body, but they were drowned out by the sound of content munching...

Moral: Politics is determined by the size of the boys and how tempting is the other kid's lunch.

(This is a 'polished up' version of a story written by 'Belrick,' published at Pravda forum)

<I wonder DonQ if Pliny has gone fishing in the park teaching them how to look after themselves. >

I wonder if Pliny intends to give the fish to the homeless or teach them how to fish...;)
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#2423 donquijote

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 11:56 AM

"If the United States attempts to turn power over to a puppet regime of repatriated exiles, the democratic experiment will surely fail."

But it will mean cheaper oil...;)

"Al-Sadr on Wednesday called for the Americans to turn power over to honest Iraqis. The best way for the United States to undercut his revolt would be to do just that."

Well guys, this is an interesting question: Will Bush go with the honest Iraquis or the corrupt ones? Hint: the corrupt ones will sell them the oil cheaper...:cool:

Iraq's big question

The United States now finds itself fighting a two-front war in Iraq: Sunni resistance in the triangle and a Shiite revolt led by Muqtada al-Sadr. Paul Bremer has vowed to crush both.
The unanswered question, though, goes beyond the tactical issue of whether U.S. forces are capable of quieting the rebels. The crux of the matter is whether these movements fairly represent the frustrations and anti-U.S. resentments of large numbers of the Iraqi people.
If they do, and if the organizers of these resistance movements can convince large numbers of Iraqis to join their cause, the American hope for creating a peaceful, democratic Iraq is doomed.
So far, there is no answer to The Big Question. The conventional wisdom seems to be that al-Sadr does not command the sympathy of a large majority of Shiites, that his Mahdi Army is a radical splinter faction. But conventional wisdom sometimes is wrong.

(snip)

The shape of a democratic society in Iraq must be settled by Iraqis, not Americans, and the clergy, which has a long history of dissenting from authoritarian or despotic regimes that have betrayed Islamic ideals (think of the late shah of Iran) will have much to say. If the United States attempts to turn power over to a puppet regime of repatriated exiles, the democratic experiment will surely fail.
Al-Sadr on Wednesday called for the Americans to turn power over to honest Iraqis. The best way for the United States to undercut his revolt would be to do just that.

http://www.sltrib.co...ion/opinion.asp
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#2424 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:05 PM

Dong; ******* The Passion: Why the people quit Jesus?
Hey, Woj, don't forget to vote. I know your answer...****

I don
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#2425 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:38 PM

Samaria - town in central Iraq. Located on the Tigris River, it is the site of a prehistoric settlement of the 5th millennium BC. The town was founded between the 3rd and 7th centuries AD. In 836, when the 'Abbasid caliph al-Mu'tasim was pressured to leave Baghdad, he made Samara' his new capital. He built a palace and treasure of hanging gardens, which became symbol of the ancient time.
Now the US bomb the Iraq hoping that people will forget roots of their civilization and the greatness their past and substitute it with Judeo-Christian
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#2426 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:51 PM

Gilgamesh was an historical king of Uruk in Babylonia, on the River Euphrates in modern Iraq; he lived about 2700 B.C. Although historians emphasizes Hammurabi and his code of law, the civilizations of the Tigris-Euphrates area, among the first civilizations, focus rather on Gilgamesh and the legends accruing around him to explain, as it were, themselves. Many stories and myths were written about Gilgamesh, some of which were written down about 2000 B.C. in the Sumerian language on clay tablets which still survive; the Sumerian language, as far as we know, bears no relation to any other human language we know about. These Sumerian Gilgamesh stories were integrated into a longer poem, versions of which survive not only in Akkadian (the Semitic language, related to Hebrew, spoken by the Babylonians) but also on tablets written in Hurrian and Hittite (an Indo-European language, a family of languages which includes Greek and English, spoken in Asia Minor). All the above languages were written in the script known as cuneiform, which means "wedge-shaped." The fullest surviving version, from which the summary here is taken, is derived from twelve stone tablets, in the Akkadian language, found in the ruins of the library of Ashurbanipal, king of Assyria 669-633 B.C., at Nineveh. The library was destroyed by the Persians in 612 B.C., and all the tablets are damaged. The tablets actually name an author, which is extremely rare in the ancient world, for this particular version of the story: Shin-eqi-unninni. You are being introduced here to the oldest known human author we can name by name!
Tablet 1
The one who saw all [Sha nagba imuru ]I will declare to the world,
The one who knew all I will tell about
He saw the great Mystery, he knew the Hidden:
He recovered the knowledge of all the times before the Flood.
He journeyed beyond the distant, he journeyed beyond exhaustion,
And then carved his story on stone. [naru : stone tablets ]
This great hero who had all knowledge [nemequ ], Gilgamesh, built the great city of Uruk; the tablet invites us to look around and view the greatness of this city, its high walls, its masonwork, and here at the base of its gates, as the foundation of the city walls, a stone of lapis lazuli on which is carved Gilgamesh's account of his exploits, the story you are about to hear.

will be cont.
http://www.britannic...ian&ct=&fuzzy=N
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#2427 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 01:11 PM

Sovereignty will be sovereignty for real.
The fighting, has left more than 100 Iraqis and 30 U.S. soldiers and Marines dead.
Kidnappers will kill three Japanese journalists they are holding in Iraq in three days unless Japanese forces withdraw from the country, Qatar's Al-Jazeera satellite news reported, showing video pictures of the hostages.
Al-Jazeera cited a group called the Mujahedeen Brigades. http://quote.bloombe...yEUg&refer=home
:)
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#2428 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 10:55 AM

The account begins: Gilgamesh, two-thirds god and one-third human, is the greatest king on earth and the strongest super-human that ever existed. Brute, Enkidu, has the strength of dozens of wild animals; he is to serve as the subhuman rival to the superhuman Gilgamesh.
A trapper's son, while checking on traps in the forest, discovers Enkidu running naked with the wild animals; he rushes to his father with the news. The father advises him to go into the city and take one of the temple harlots, Shamhat, when she sees Enkidu, she is to offer herself sexually to the wild man. If he submits to her, the trapper says, he will lose his strength and his wildness.
Shamhat meets Enkidu at the watering-hole where all the wild animals gather; she offers herself to him and he submits, instantly losing his strength and wildness, but he gains understanding and knowledge. He laments for his lost state, but the harlot offers to take him into the city where all the joys of civilization shine in their resplendence; she offers to show him Gilgamesh, the only man worthy of Enkidu's friendship.
Gilgamesh meanwhile has two dreams; in the first a meteorite falls to earth which is so great that Gilgamesh can neither lift it nor turn it. The people gather and celebrate around the meteorite, and Gilgamesh embraces it as he would a wife, but his mother.
This summary is derived from several German language commentaries; The Nature of the Heroic.
When you read the myth, notice how Gilgamesh is presented as superhuman, so powerful that the gods create a counterpart to moderate his desires and actions.
Gilgamesh poem , thought magnificent and older than for example Greek Odyssey , is less known because the Bible readers and believers were interested to hide Sumerian culture. Sumerian culture puts too much Bible in jeopardy as a only a new version of Sumerian literature.
Western culture is Easter culture after all.
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#2429 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 12:50 PM

Gilgamesh was an historical king of Uruk in Babylonia, on the River Euphrates in modern Iraq; :) he lived about 2700 B.C.
Many stories and myths were written about Gilgamesh, some of which were written down about 2000 B.C. in the Sumerian language on clay tablets which still survive. :)
The Sumerian language, as far as we know, bears no relation to any other human language we know about, talk about facts in history as far as we know, that no other human language, mentioned before.!!!!!!:P for example Flood. The story of the Flood is a familiar one, as we shall see in Genesis and Plato also gives an account of the Flood and the city of Atlantis in the dialogue, Critias ; the Nez Perce of the Palouse also have a flood story in which the only humans that survived did so by climbing the mountain, Yamustus.. The earliest surviving reference to the Flood goes back to 1900 B.C. Why do the gods bring on the Flood? What does it tell about the relation of the gods love to humanity?:confused:
It was maybe reason behind why historians tend to emphasize Hammurabi and his code of law, the civilizations of the Tigris-Euphrates area, among the first civilizations, instead to focus rather on Gilgamesh and the legends accruing around him. .

We must notice visible tendencies to eliminate the **** Lament for the Destruction of Ur*** from the history, to create motif of importance for the later cultures.:o
Our obligation for the people of Ur, Uruk, Sumaria is to preserve the history and artifacts. They are still on the ground, and underground ,( though under US bombing )with lapis lazuli coloring 5000 years old structure.
They are the witnesses of the facts in Mesopotamia, Iraq land. :)
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#2430 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 07:46 PM

When whole Polish Poland is against US invasion on Iraq, foreign owned Media prepared anti Muslim provocation; during Easter Holydays. It is movie ;* On desert and in forest.*
It is old nonsense which is the glorification UK colonialism in Africa. :confused: This movie is an insult for Muslim.
Freedom fighter Muhammad Ahmad ibn Abd Allah al-MahdI (1844-1885) from Sudan is presented as a mad and cruel man. . Person who creates the Islamic state extending from the Red Sea to Central Africa and founder of a movement that remained influential in Sudan to this day, a century later , is presented as a beast. . .
I feel ashamed of government in Poland . It uses religion holydays as a occasion for insulting Muslim religion .
Kwasniewski's tolerance has only one direction. :)
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#2431 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 12:07 PM

Now we understand why Codex of Hammurabi is wide known when the Gilgamesh poem is not. Sumerian culture is eliminating the Bible priority. Big business of Church could fail. :)
Utnapishtim is much older than Noah with his Ham son. Also hybridizing is also popular in ancient time. Gigamesh is son of second class God and human being. . :)
Sumerian myths, epics, hymns, lamentations, penitential psalms, incantations, wisdom literature, and handbooks dealing with rituals and omens of ancient Mesopotamia show the Mesopotamian (Sumerian, Babylonian, and Assyrian) attitudes to death.. They were grim and stark: sickness and death were the wages of sin. This view was to percolate, with pitiless logic and simplicity, through Judaism into Christianity. :P http://www.britannic...utnapishtim&ct=
Problem is that we not necessary Noah children ha, ha ha.

Code of Hammurabi;
When Anu the Sublime, King of the Anunaki, and Bel, the lord of Heaven and earth, who decreed the fate of the land, assigned to Marduk, God of righteousness, dominion over earthly man, , they called Babylon by his illustrious name, made it great on earth, and founded an everlasting kingdom in it, whose foundations are laid so solidly as those of heaven and earth; then Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared God, to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak; so that I should rule over the black-headed people like Shamash, and enlighten the land, to further the well-being of mankind. When Marduk sent me to rule over men, to give the protection of right to the land, I did right and righteousness in . . . , and brought about the well-being of the oppressed.
Examples;

1

If any one ensnare another, putting a ban upon him, but he can not prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.
3

If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital offense charged, be put to death.
( looks like Bush with his WMD accusation to me)

These laws also regulate many domestic issues;
144

If a man take a wife and this woman give her husband a maid-servant, and she bear him children, but this man wishes to take another wife, this shall not be permitted to him; he shall not take a second wife.
149

If this woman does not wish to remain in her husband's house, then he shall compensate her for the dowry that she brought with her from her father's house, and she may go.
170

If his wife bear sons to a man, or his maid-servant have borne sons, and the father while still living says to the children whom his maid-servant has borne: "My sons," and he count them with the sons of his wife; if then the father die, then the sons of the wife and maid shall divide the paternal property in common.
200

If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out. [ A tooth for a tooth ] 218

If a physician make a large incision with the operating knife, and kill him, or open a tumor with the operating knife, and cut out the eye, his hands shall be cut off.
228

If a builder build a house for some one and complete it, he shall give him a fee of two shekels in money for each sar of surface.
229

If a builder build a house for some one, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built fall in and kill its owner, then that builder shall be put to death.
230

If it kill the son of the owner the son of the builder shall be put to death.
249

If any one hire an ox, and God strike it that it die, the man who hired it shall swear by God and be considered guiltless
261

If any one hire a herdsman for cattle or sheep, he shall pay him eight gur of corn per annum
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#2432 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 12:56 PM

When Christianity abruptly took Slavic land, they settled Slavic holydays for their own. Therefore St Maria was blessed in August and Christus was born in December. Miracles. ha, ha ha.:)
But Slavs as an agriculture communities celebrate changes of the seasons with true rhythm of Universe.
Spring holiday was settled on equal time of day and night. It was holiday of resurrection of life, so from there these eggs, chicken, rabbits and lambs.
Fortunately from Slavic tradition in Poland stayed part of celebration of water. Water is the biggest promoting force in life. ***Smingus Dyngus *** is time when everybody sprinkles each other with water, and this custom firmly stayed as a part of Easter , as witness of roots of Easter holydays.
I hope that celebration will stay even after Christianity will be gone. :)
Comment to; Easter eggs haute couture.
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#2433 donquijote

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Posted 10 April 2004 - 04:27 PM

guys, this debate is taking place at...

http://members5.boar.../msg/18553.html

(my answer at the bottom)

--Previous Message--
: If that doesn't sound condescending. I myself
: am a small government fellow who likes set
: and forget solutions. If we continue to
: corresspond I shall try and swing you about
: 5% in my direction. So thoughtful a person as
: you should be welcomed onto this board but I
: am not the one to do it for I am an
: interloper with an agenda.
: I am an interloper because I am an
: Australian. My agenda is to maintain this
: enourmously fortunate situation of American
: Hegemony. My agenda is also to promote
: smaller and smaller government but in a
: partial levelling mode. Partial levelling in
: terms of just not taxing dudes who are
: struggling. But partial levelling also in
: terms of the average size of businesses.
: That is to say if it is overwhelmingly
: efficient that a business should be large
: well Goodoh.
: But I seek a slight bias toward the sole
: trader that would be subtle in the short term
: ( so as not to be inefficient and uneconomic
: ) but devastating in the long-term and more
: in keeping with the American cultural
: heritage.
: In the very long-term I seek the Henry George
: land tax. But I perceiveve that to be
: politically impossible. So what I'm after in
: the medium term is to reduce the tax burden
: in total but to shift it from income to
: assets with an exemption large enough for
: your average sole trader and family farmer.
: Then I would seek to lock in changes which
: move toward more generalised land tax over
: the next 50-100 years.
: If there is to be socialism I would much
: prefer it on a Canton level. Because
: socialist policies are usually a complete
: failure but I could see how some of them
: might work with rigourous local
: participation.
: In international affairs I believe in
: detterence and for the democracies to be
: strong. But if we could spend a lot more
: money and acheive non-nuclear deterrence than
: I would think that that was a lot more
: righteous.
: BUT I WOULD GET BLUE IN THE FACE IF IT WERE
: SUGGESTED THAT WE SHOULD FORSAKE ALL
: DETTERENCE AND HOPE FOR A TIME WHEN FOLKS
: COULD BE MORE ENLIGHTENED
: People who ignore these realities have
: mastered the technique of pre-emptive
: surrender and I would hope that they would
: just individually offer to be someone elses
: slave or sexual 'block' rather than impose
: the wildfire of general war and loss of
: freedom on the rest of us.
: Anyhow I wrote the above just so its not a
: mystery what I'm driving at should we debate
: some issues.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer...
Well, I think the Swiss have much to offer to the world, particularly to America: Small decentralized goverment (no big money politics), neutrality (no foreign meddling) and a decent social policy. Switzerland scores high on social justice without having a large bureaucracy, which is at the heart of socialism. So we can speak about a libertarian way rather than a socialist way. But I further see some cantons staying libertarian (seeking market oriented solutions) while others go into COOPERATIVES. It would amount to an 'ECONOMIC DEMOCRACY' rather than a 'political democracy,' which is what we got now. (I would argue that political democracy amount to little as you still have to work for the same boss.) In other words, you would join whatever canton pleases you, "voting with your feet," so to speak...
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#2434 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 12:48 PM

Babylon (Iraq ) in poetry
The blue dusk ran between the streets ; my love was winged within my mind.
It left today and yesterday and thrice a thousand years behind
today was past and dead for me , for from today my feet had run
through thrice a thousand years to walk the ways of ancient Babilon.
On temple top and palace roof the burnished gold flung back the rays
Of the red sunset that was dead and lost beyond a million days.
The tower of heaven turns darker blue, a starry sparkle now begins;
The mystery and magnificence , the myriad beauty and the signs
Come back to me. I walk beneath the shadowy multitude of towers;
Within the gloom the fountain jets its pallid mist in lily flowers.
The waters lull me and the scent of many gardens and I hear
the voice I love is whispering in my ear.
Oh light our life in Babylon, but Babylon has taken vinge,
While we are in the calm and proud possession of eternal things.
by A.E.
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#2435 Pliny

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 01:26 PM

I checked in once in a while keep up.
Not too much of interest going on.

Bader: I didn't see an answer to my question regarding the establishment of "value".
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#2436 Bader

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 09:15 PM

Howdy Pliny:

I repeat, we are going in circles because we have different definitions and perspectives. And different ideologies perhaps.
You want a two tier system, one of which is abitrary and cannot be controlled by the people, you allow debt the major problem,
which I do not, so we cannot agree.

I have given you my answer several times to the question of "value". It is goods and services which is the wealth everyone is surrendering/redeeming their money/credit for. How many people are lining up for gold?
Your regime of "you must first buy my gold before you can have or do anything" is a dictatership and a burden on all except the rich. It is the centralized water-hole still in DonQs story.

When the people own the money no one can cancell it but the people. They will do that as soon as they want to stop buying goods and services. They will control the goods and services and govt. They cant control the gold.
This is a one of the great dividing lines that rarely gets to be
exposed to the open light.
Are you prepared to give total power to the people?
many people like referenda but dont want it to be total and binding on govt because they dont believe that the common people can be trusted, they believe that experts/specialists etc
of which politicians are one tier, must hold power. Which is why Switzerland is a rare existence and only partial democracy even then.
I have explained the system i believe is democractic and will
empower people to be free (enterprize) and you can only find fault in relation to another perspective not what mine represents.
But you have yet to show how yours will work within what you
percieve to be a better system,
1- where are you going to get the gold from?
2- and how is it going to be issued to all so the people own the gold?
3- and how will the burden of moving the gold behind each note around with each note be handled?
4- how are you going to control the price and availability (eg against hoarding) of gold?

This is the practical side, the theory sounds good when one can say the money is backed by gold.
I have used tickets and tokens, people and physical situations like the father and son on the beach, the farmers with seed soil and machinery to show the real practical world doesnt need an arbitrary abstract regime outside of the peoples control to facilitate what man has always done naturally for thousands of years
such as create and trade and find easier ways create and more comfortable ways of enjoying life.
THis is what history is about- the struggle between the will-to- power by those who dont believe people should have total power
and the will-to-freedom where people believe they should be free of any kind of ruling elite: between sovereignty of the system against the sovereignty of the individual.
Man is made for systems v systems are made for man.
Let the reader judge for themselves which one of these, mine and yours are tending towards, and vote with their feet. The results may not have anything to do with money, which is not clearly understood by many and confusion to most, they will move according to underlying ideology.
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#2437 Bader

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 11:01 PM

Howdy Woj:
the phoenix ( the eagle on the r side of the US dollar- masonic
symbolage) arrises out of the ashes of the Tower of Babel.
Perhaps this is the pretext to the eye of Horus and the capstone coming into its kingdom of babylon over the civilized world again,
sybolized by the capstone hoving into place on the pyramid on the l side of the US dollar. The visible NWO/World Govt begins.
The gods of ancient Babylon survive down through Egypt, Greece and Rome to today through the Uliminati to the present Bonesman (representing but one line of many).
Thus "we have the obligation to protect this place
(Babylon/Iraq) as a cradle of civilization" (you said) might be all in vain because the forces in control may want to literally reduce the place to ashes for the phoenix. There are those in the US and Israel who have previously claimed that the only answer to total chaos and terror
in Iraq as in Palestine is nuclear or similar to totally destroy and start again. The current turn for the worst in Iraq has all the hallmarks of military planning by those in control.
Note the emphasis of the Catholic Mel Gibson in the Passion on suffering for gain. Not the de-emphasis in the gospels in complete contrast to his work, no detailed and drawn out suffering. The emphasis is the resurrection and a basis of a new society free of bondage.
The Jews who formed the first christian society celebrated and were inspired by the risen Christ- proof of the resurrection. They didnt wear course-hair under harments and walk around flagelating themselves with knoted wips doing penance, selling
nails and pieces of wood from a cross, in bondage to holy journeys to visit sites collecting brownie points for when they died. Thats the gods of babylon, not just the cradle of civlization but also of witchcraft and religious,political, financial
bondage. (Book of Revelations)
The names change the players behind the scenes are the same.
Baccus was the child the queen of heaven held in her arms, which
when Constantine made Chrsitainity the state religion was re-named Mary and Jesus which means not only Easter but more,
impostering itself in Christianity, is nothing but the remnants of ancient Babylon. Baccus was the false christ, the Mason claims is the real christ and Jesus the false one.
Baccus, Horus, Bel, Baal names and spelling change from time and place to time and place.
The eye of Horus can be seen in Lord of the Rings films, in the firey sky in the distance, like a cats eye.
Marley worshiped the same, out of West Indian witchcraft, in a corruption of the Lion of Judah they stole off the king of Ethiopia.
It is behind the Thule society and the Nazi and you celebrate the
masses that died through the Third Reich while you deplore those
mass murdered by his spiritual cousins in Jugolslavia and Iraq by
the Bushes and Clinton.
This is the gods of Babylon coming back into full power over the world, which I believe is what the Kabbalah is all about. Likewise the Vatican is waiting for a uniting of the old with the new and they have always claimed that the world will unite around the Queen of heaven, which is the revival of Babylonian gods.
The new age religion and the enviranmental movement- Mother
Earth (Queen of Heaven) and man (man child in her arms) is just another perspective emerging and merging for the NWO- World Govt.
(Grandma what big eyes you have...
Grandma what big ears you have ...
Grandma what big teeth you have...)
The storey ends by the intervention of the woodsman.
There are two of them, one Christ and the other Anti-Christ. The world must Vote with its feet. How could it even be other than in confusion and deception, more so when the world is moving into an era of no right and no wrong. Quite a set up isnt it?
It has been popular to discount the Bible by suggesting that it is derived from ancient writings rather than prophets inspired by the real God, just as some like to reduce Jesus to
just another spiritual inspirator like Ghandi or Budha.
If you dug up a time capsual and years of daily copies of the NY Times that covered the destruction of Jugoslavia and Iraq
would you if you lived a few hundred years from now believe what they printed? Should state clay tablets be any more accurate?
You say "Bible lovers support war against Iraq."
Those who are creating a NWO hate the Bible because like Jesus exposes the powers of Babylon Oh sure some of the Neocons are
supporting the Zionist expansion into the oil and gass rich regions
because they think the god is the same god. Some are so deceived they support the notion of eccelerating the crisis into a
cataclismic crisis of destruction to force gods hands into interveening to set up the Kingdom of God. The phoenix? -Which god? They are bible lovers? Was Mary really the Queen of Heaven?
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#2438 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 11 April 2004 - 11:42 PM

Like the most Polish today, I watched Polish movie Quo Vadis based on the same title book by the Polish Nobel prize winner Henryk Sienkiewicz . Title means; ***Where are you going***. This book and movie describe the situation of the first Christian during Neron time. :confused:
This movie brought to me the only one reflection; Neron time of Roman empire is for sure cradle of Western civilization
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#2439 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 12:55 AM

Bader; I don
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#2440 donquijote

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 03:29 AM

<Man is made for systems v systems are made for man.
Let the reader judge for themselves which one of these, mine and yours are tending towards, and vote with their feet. The results may not have anything to do with money, which is not clearly understood by many and confusion to most, they will move according to underlying ideology.>

Howdy Bader
Well said. Let the people choose what's right for them. Globalization--like Communism--is no more than "one size fits all" solution. Only the foxes can benefit from it.

This is another form of Utopia that may fit some. The best option is to have options...;)

"Jesus Christ. While liberation theologians do not outright deny Christ's deity, there is no clear-cut, unambiguous confession that Jesus is God. *The significance of Jesus Christ lies in His example of struggling for the poor and the outcast*. The Incarnation is reinterpreted to represent God's total immersion into man's history of conflict and oppression. By His words and actions, Jesus showed us how to become true sons of God - that is, by bringing in the kingdom of God through actively pursuing the liberation of the oppressed."

http://home.earthlin...Liberation.html

This is an interpretation of the "Liberation Theology" I can live with. Their Marxist leanings may have represented an error, but their emphasis on Social Justice brings new significance to Jesus. I find it however strikingly stupid that they never drew on this other Christian experiment. Note that it emphasized community (or cooperative work) rather than the State (or bureaucratic solution).

"The Guarani society was the first in history of the world to be entirely literate."

Guided by the Jesuits, the Indios had advanced laws, they founded free public services for the poor, schools, hospitals, established birth control, and suppressed the death penalty. A kind of society based on the principles of the primitive Christianity had been established. All the inhabitants of the "reducciones" worked in the "tupambae", land property of the community, and all the products which they produced were fairly divided among them. The Guaran? were very skilled in handicraft works, sculpture, woodcarving etc.; the "reducciones", were the first "industrial" state of the South America. Indeed, such advanced products as watches, musical instruments, etc. were produced in the "reducciones". The first typography of the New World had been built in the reducciones. The working day was about 6 hours (in Europe at that time was of 12-14 hours), and the free time had been dedicated to music, dance, bow-shot contests and to prayer.

The Guarani society was the first in history of the world to be entirely literate.

http://www.geocities...97/jesuits.html
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