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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#2601 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 11:45 AM

Donq; ***Like I said all of Latin America follows American model, Russia and Iraq follow suit... I'd put it the other way around, Who doesn't? Perhaps Europe holds its own, and Canada too. They can afford not go into war or afford some socialized healthcare, but Banana Republics can't afford such luxuries. Honduras was notified that the money transfers from relatives in America may be affected by them pulling out the troops. By the way, another way we can learn from Switzerland is its military. Neutrality without military weakness, democracy, diversity, decentralization, social justice are all given in a model worth imitating***


Honduras was notified that the money transfers from relatives in America may be affected by them pulling out the troops. On that message Norwegian decided to stay only to June and Denmark push his foreigner minister to resigned.
Latin America doesn
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#2602 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 11:53 AM

Bader; Source on Hussein human rights violations are only Jewish Americans, Iraqi on American payroll or institutions financially supported by US.
Regarding on Stalin, I wonder who would win popularity contest in Russia today Stalin or Gorbaczew? :)
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#2603 donquijote

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 01:37 PM

As I was saying the only Movement that offers some hope--appart of our own--are the Zapatistas. And even then, take it with a grain of salt.

This is an Anarchist perspective on them, which rejects any lion rising among the rebel little animals. But I still believe they are short on solutions, whether applied to the Chiapas jungle or the New York jungle...;) And how can you empower the little people if you don't a give them a clear and concrete political platform?

My comments follow in [...]

What is it that is different about the Zapatistas?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(snip)

Marcos returned to this theme in 1995 in a letter that sought to explain why the Zapatistas are different. " We do not want others, more or less of the right, center or left, to decide for us. We want to participate directly in the decisions which concern us, to control those who govern us, without regard to their political affiliation, and oblige them to "rule by obeying". We do not struggle to take power, we struggle for democracy, liberty, and justice. Our political proposal is the most radical in Mexico (perhaps in the world, but it is still too soon to say). It is so radical that all the traditional political spectrum (right, center left and those of one or the other extreme) criticize us and walk away from our delirium.

[I'm sure he doesn't know about us.;) We talk about FREEDOM, SOCIAL JUSTICE AND PROSPERITY but we also provide specifics, with wich we can confront politicians and empower people. And children as young as 12 are reading our message...]

It is not our arms which make us radical; it is the new political practice which we propose and in which we are immersed with thousands of men and women in Mexico and the world: the construction of a political practice which does not seek the taking of power but the organization of society. Intellectuals and political leadership, of all sizes, of the ultraright, of the right, the center, of the left and the ultraleft, national and international criticize our proposal. We are so radical that we do not fit in the parameters of "modern political science". We are not bragging - we are pointing out the facts. Is there anything more radical than to propose to change the world? You know this because you share this dream with us, and because, though the truth be repeated, we dream it together." [25]

Not the same thing

(snip)

-You struggle for power. We struggle for democracy, liberty and justice. This is not the same thing. Though you may be successful and conquer power, we will continue struggling for democracy, liberty and justice. It does not matter who is in power, the Zapatistas are and have always struggle for democracy, liberty and justice." [26]

[True, the problem is the jungle. Come out of the jungle, and the individual in power becomes insignificant.]

(snip)

Pinch of salt

On this ideological level we can see what seperates the Zapatistas from most of the left. But anyone who has been a member of a left organisation will know there can be a sharp difference between the external rhetoric of workers democracy and and an internal reality where real discussion is suppressed, instructions come from the top down and mechanisms exist that insure the same small clique runs the organisation for decade after decade. Do similar problems exist with the Zapatistas?

[In other words, is the violent monkey already dressed as a lion?];)

This is a more difficult problem to answer. It is no use simply quoting Marcos or any other prominent Zapatista as they may simply be telling us what they reckon we-d like to hear. The ongoing Low Intensity War means that it can be very difficult to ask questions (particularly in relation to the military side of the organisation) never mind get accurate answers. This has led some left critics to claim that visits to the rebel zone are controlled so that "On a well-signed route, people have to agree to see only what they have to see and to believe in the leader-s words"[4].

Indeed, there can be a point to such critiques. Left parties, particularly in power, have been experts at arranging carefully controlled trips to model communities and workplaces where international visitors come into contact only with carefully coached party members. Much of the discussion around the Zapatistas has focused on their communiqu?s and essentially divides into two camps, one that sees them offering a new model of revolutionary organisation, the other that criticises them on the basis of problems with their political program. Little has been written about day-to-day life in the rebel area.

(snip)

[Democracy]

The method the Zapatistas use is a variation of -delegate democracy-, a method that is used in many countries at the base of trade unions and student unions. An individual is elected from amongst those they normally work with (eg a shop steward or class rep). Rather than being then allowed carte blanche to decide what they like they are given a clear mandate to represent the views of the group that selected them to regional meetings of delegates. Such systems also contain other mechanisms to limit the power delegates can informally accrue like


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#2604 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 02:00 PM

from Draco_Annie to Brendon;

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#2605 donquijote

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 02:10 PM

<what about Communism where Ants rule?. >

Ant rebellion is coming... but I don't think they want communism. They are tired of the Queen and other parasites, but they want to remain wild and free...;)

EVOLVE OR ELSE!

Once upon a time lived a race of dinosaurs whose violence and appetite alarmed everybody... One day a Little Ant, tired of feeling stepped upon, and worried about her cooperative enterprise, came up to the Americanus Raptor--the biggest dinosaur of them all--and asked: "Why you always have to protect the right of the dinosaurs, who do nothing but eat everything in their path? Why don't the little animals get a fair share of this world?" Then the dinosaur, who had a bad temper, replied: "Bigger is better, so get lost..."

The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said: "Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire, destroying all but the small animals...

***

An interesting article...

The Perfect Social System of Ants
HARUN YAHYA

Ants live in colonies and a perfect division of labor exists amongst them. When we take a closer look at their systems, we shall also see that they have a pretty interesting social structure. It will also come to our attention that they are capable of sacrifice at a much higher level than humans are. One of the most interesting points is that - compared to humans - they do not know the concepts such as the rich-poor discrimination and the fight for power that are observed in our societies.

Many scientists, who for years have been doing extensive research on ants, have not been able to clarify the subject of their advanced social behavior. Caryle P. Haskins, Ph.D., the president of the Carnegie Institute at Washington has this to say:

After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. -The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior. (National Geographic, vol.165, no.6, p. 775)

Some colonies of ants are so extensive with respect to population and living area, that it is impossible to explain how they can form a perfect order over such a vast area. Therefore, it is not easy not to concur with Dr. Haskins.

As an example of these large colonies we can give the species of ant, called Formica Yessensis that lives on the Ishikari coast of Hokkaido. This ant colony lives in 45,000 interconnected nests over an area of 2.7 square kilometers. The colony, which is composed of approximately 1,080,000 queens and 306,000,000 workers, has been named the "Super colony" by the researchers. (Bert H?lldobler-Edward O.Wilson, The Ants, Harvard University Press, 1990, p. 1.) It has been discovered that all production tools and food are exchanged in an orderly fashion within the colony.

It is very hard to explain how the ants have maintained this order without any problems, considering the vast area they are living in. We must not forget that various security forces are needed for enforcing law and maintaining social order, even in a civilized country with a low population density. And there is an administrative staff leading and managing these units. Sometimes, it does not become possible to maintain the required order without problems despite all these intense efforts.

Yet in ant colonies there is no need felt for police, gendarmerie or guards. If we consider that actually the duty of the queens, whom we think of as the leaders of the colonies, is just to maintain the species, they do not have a leader or a governor. There is thus no hierarchy based on a chain of command amongst them. Then who is it that lays down this order and maintains its continuity?

[Well this article goes on to say that God is their co-pilot, but where is He to be found in human affairs?]:confused:

http://www.harunyahy...ocial_sci24.php
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#2606 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 02:23 PM

donq; *******ant rebellion is coming ?******
Should the U.S. reinstate the military draft? http://discussions.w...inside_today_us
Yes 30%
No 70%
So Us looking for idiots to fight for their resources and bases.

Bigger is not better, but more stinks
:)
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#2607 Pliny

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 04:20 PM

>>>After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. -The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior.<<<

I always get a good laugh at the scientific comparison of animals and humans - but mostly our inclusion in the same rank.

Woj,

Re: The Draft. They are having trouble buffaloing people into joining the military so they have to look at forcing them. The blackguards.
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#2608 Bader

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 06:56 PM

Thanks Woj: I havent seen anything which covered the claimed
tyrany in Iraq and many just parot the newspapers/tv headlines
which also has everyone believing there are WMD there and they
may still "find" then in time for the election.
The corporation military or the CIA/Mossad may yet come to the resue and plant the smoking gun.

Two Israelis were arrested about 18months-2 yrs ago trying to blow up a govt building, probably the parliament, in Mexico.
I guess Fox would have used this subversion as a pretext as the
US Sept 11.

It would appear that the Joe Vialls report of Operation Shikinah
the Israeli planned move into Iraq put pressure on the SEpt 11 option to happen from which the invasion of Iraq was built on. Perhaps
it was Clintons procrastination that caused things to move this way and Bush become the Savior.

Where is God in Human affairs DonQ?
BUsh has said he is serving God!
On the other hand the animal kingdom is created to function by inbuilt instinct. Man was built to have individual choice. Totally different programmes and thus Pliny is quite right to laugh at the
attempts to use animals to justify human behaviour (decision making) Not only will the cop-out not work, it is a decision in itself and to be accountable just the same.
I note none of the models promote as good examples of finding a a btter way are subject to such animal behaviour nonsense. Are they trying to escape this nonsense as well?
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#2609 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 09:21 PM

Where Mind Meets Brain.*** Many findings indicating that most of what the brain does
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#2610 Pliny

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:10 AM

>>>Experience shapes the net into the form that best adapts our behavior to whatever world we happen to find ourselves in.<<<

What similarity in experience occurs that we happen to find ourselves in the same world? And, from that, what variation in experience delineates our individuality? As everyone's brain is different is that, and not experience, what gives us our individuality? Perhaps it is a combination of experience and brain composition?

Thinking from a purely materialistic point of view will only present a flawed theory at best and present more questions because the original premise, that man is an animal or a jumble of electro-chemical reactions, is flawed.

All flawed theories leave us with more questions than we originally had. A correct theory will answer many questions and extrapolations can be made that predict behavior.

It seems only flawed theories are accepted in the study of the humanities and every few years a new theory, even more absurd, replaces the old. No other "science" would tolerate this.
And it is all because the basic premise is INCORRECT and the truth is vehemently denied. The truth being that each individual is a soul.

Woj, you are a Slav and therefore believe in reincanation. (Chuckle) What reincarnates? The same body, the same brain, both? The soul - Before any headway can be made this must be defined and not understood as some ethereal experience only known to the individual. The soul must have definition. We should start by figuring that one out. The basic premise is that it exists.
The current premise in the humanities is that it doesn't. NO understanding of life has been arrived at from that premise. All we have done is investigated a complex part of the anatomy that has probably no more importance than it being a locater of body sensation so we know when we bump into things or see something dangerous.

If we can't define the soul, let's at least see where the premise leads us. We don't know what it is but let's say it is a seperate thing or non-thing from the physical. We (humanity) need to ask a million questions about this but the assumption of it's existence must be assumed valid or we follow the same dead end as our current social scientists who have assumed too many of their facts are truths.
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#2611 Bader

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 06:27 AM

Either the thing is exact to be able to support life or it isnt and thus the foetus is dead.
Can man live for million so years with undeveloped:
one can go through the various parts of the body and list them. hundreds, like eyes being able to receive moisture, the little drum in the ear not to mention the other parts, the ability to regulate body fluid and heat, saliva in the mouth, a tail on sperm, the
connection between nerve endings etc, enzyms not to mention antibodies. It goes on and on.
Would someone suggest we crawled around for a million year, slowly as we developed lungs?
We are either all there or we dont exist there is not a deveopment stage outside the womb, we evolved over nine months.
Reincarnation sounds like a spiritual evolution.
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#2612 Bader

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:01 AM

Smart Dust

This reminds me of the incredible information about the ants
the other day.

SD is
1, a computer with brains to store data, process it and run the unit.
2, Has sensors that gauge factors like light, heat and humidity.
3, It operates on low power, so it's not dependant on bulky energy sources.
4, It's miniaturised, because small means more useful and more portable.
5, It's a radio that provides interactivity so units can send or receive information and instructions.

Described as "Networks of sensors that are actually talking to each other and it's almost like a bucket brigade. One tosses its information off to the next one, the next one tosses it off to the repeater and all of that gets gathered by a central computer that stores the information for us.

"And Smart Dust researchers are planning to add mechanised components so the Smart Dust can fly or crawl on demand, adding new meaning to the term "bugging device" for both surveillance and science."

A test unit was only the size of a fraction of a penny and blown up pictures of the tiny motors were only the diameter of a human hair.

Is this how the ant colony functions. Are each one a smart dust
unit relaying information across the lines of ants back to the nest.
Are the series of sealed Queens the central computer that interprets the information and relays back to the units instructions?
Have they been e-mailing for thousands of years?
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#2613 Bader

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:31 AM

"I hope that efforts in obtaining energy from curved spacetime will go ahead full speed, otherwise we are heading for the stone age"
-Evans

Checkout cheniere.org

Not just interesting science but at the bottem is one of the indicaters that the US isnt number 1 military.

Does the absorbtion of ex-Warsaw Pact countries into NATO,
the breakup of Juogslavia, the invasion of Iraq and the encroachment into Central Asia, the "war" to develop a grand Coalition army, the threatening fingering pointed at Syria and Iran both friendly towards Russia both of which may have a defence relationship, have anything to do with preparing to squeeze Russia into sub-number One?
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#2614 donquijote

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:52 PM

If you think everything is gonna be alright, without doing a thing, you are in for a lesson in history. Easter Island once had signs of trouble, but were ignored. Likewise our resources are being wasted on WASTEFUL PROJECTS and WARS, while the WATER WELL IS DRYING UP. A recipe for disaster, is it not?:confused:

In this movie, the crisis is precipitated, not by the stupid Lion (the old King), but by the greedy Fox (the Priest) who advices him. In the end the King escapes in an iceberg, which he interpreted to be the divine message... (Will the Rich escape to the Moon?) The Priest though receives some truly divine fate--he's speared in the "Short Ears" revolt. What's new?:confused:

'The little spot of land in the middle of endless sea is more-or-less in the same situation as our lonely little rock in dark cold universe, and in the ecologically induced class struggle between "Long Ears" and "Short Ears" we might see reflection of the escalating conflict between rich and privileged states of the First World and numerically increasing yet constantly impoverished multitudes of the Third World. Unlike other films that try to shove the Message down our throats by, RAPA NUI successfully shows how greed, ignorance and unbalanced approach towards environment can bring down entire civilisation.'

RAPA NUI (1994)
reviewed by
Dragan Antulov

The plot of this film is based on the legends and historical speculations about Easter Island in Southeast Pacific, the most remote part of the world that was ever settled by human beings. Dutch explorers, upon discovering those islands in 1722, found impressive statues but the the local population, made of stone-age cannibalistic savages, seemed incapable of erecting them. The movie tries to give the explanation for this by setting the story few decades before the arrival of Europeans. The island is so far away from the other lands and that the descendants of Polynesian settlers forgot their roots and believe that they are the only people in the world. Lack of external conflicts doesn't mean that there aren't tensions within the community - the society is divided into two classes based on racial features - aristocratic "Long Ears" and plebeian "Short Ears". The class and racial tensions has begun to escalate because of the population explosion; the island is simply too small to provide the needs for the people. Old and senile king Ariki-mau (played by Eru Potaka-Dewes) is less concerned with those problems, because he thinks only of erecting bigger and bigger statues in order to placate gods. His grandson Naro (played by Jason Scott Lee) has other things on his mind, since he fell in love in "Short Ear" girl Ramana (played by Sandirine Holt). Love that crosses class divide happens in worst of all times, since "Short Ears" like Make (played by Esai Morales) are less and less enthusiastic about "Long Ears" rule, which slowly but inevitably paves the way for brutal civil unrest.

RAPA NUI definitely belongs to the same category as multitude of other films with strong environmental message, which used to be made during the zenith of Hollywood's "political correctness" in early to mid 1990s. What distinguishes this film from those films is the manor in which the message is delivered to the audience. Namely, filmmakers wisely chose to set the plot in a time before arrival of Europeans, thus sparing the viewers from "politically correct" cliches of evil European civilisation destroying the nature. RAPA NUI shows that less advanced native cultures, which are supposed to be more "in tune" with the nature, can be equally or even more deadly to the environment than their modern-day equivalents. What is even more remarkable about this film is the fact that the whole story can be seen as powerful allegory about the current state of human civilisation as a whole,. The little spot of land in the middle of endless sea is more-or-less in the same situation as our lonely little rock in dark cold universe, and in the ecologically induced class struggle between "Long Ears" and "Short Ears" we might see reflection of the escalating conflict between rich and privileged states of the First World and numerically increasing yet constantly impoverished multitudes of the Third World. Unlike other films that try to shove the Message down our throats by, RAPA NUI successfully shows how greed, ignorance and unbalanced approach towards environment can bring down entire civilisation.

Unfortunately, most of the viewers have to digest this message in the context of plot, characters and situations that sometimes look too cliched or simplistic, or simply out of place. One of the examples is the triathlon scene, which looks like it was added into the film only to provide some testosterone- filled action in otherwise depressive movie. The writer and director Kevin Reynolds nevertheless manages to keep things under control, helped by ethnically diverse and very capable cast. Despite many flaws, RAPA NUI is a film that can leave a strong impression on any viewers, and after WTC bombings, when the future of our world seems so uncertain, this impression is definitely going to be even stronger.
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#2615 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 01:57 PM

Who is number 1 or Death of American soul;
....Mobby Dick , or the White Whale.
A hunt. The last great hunt.
For what?
For Moby Dick. Of course he is a symbol.
Of what? I doubt if even Melville knew exactly. That
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#2616 donquijote

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 02:33 PM

< For Moby Dick. Of course he is a symbol.
Of what? I doubt if even Melville knew exactly. That -s the best of it.>

Could it be interpreted that the hunt for Moby Dick is the hunt for Terrorism?;)

Any lessons from its dramatic end?:confused:
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#2617 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 03:11 PM

Donq;****** Any lessons from its dramatic end?*****

Rituals promote group cohesion; by requiring members to engage in behavior;
Why do Hari Krishnas shave their heads? Why do Mormons abstain from coffee, tobacco and alcohol? And why do so many religious groups have strict initiation rites, ranging from bathing in icy water to painful scarification, hair plucking and genital mutilation?
In other words, why all the ordeals and sacrifices?
Most attempts to explain religious rituals and taboos have focused on the spiritual benefits of these practices,but I sees there's a more fundamental reason. They signal commitment to the group, and prevent those who are uncommitted from gaining the benefits of membership. :)
Used intercept from with no intention of an author. http://www.americans...aaadRqdZxmZH_B;
So I suspect the genital mutilation of Moby Dick.
:)
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#2618 donquijote

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:29 PM

****** Any lessons from its dramatic end?*****

<Rituals promote group cohesion; by requiring members to engage in behavior;

So I suspect the genital mutilation of Moby Dick. >

I see another powerful moral for modern times: REVENGE CAN BE DANGEROUS! Madmen bent on vengeance should be stopped! It's not very different from the war in Iraq or elsewhere. Ahab could have left Moby Dick alone, but he chose to embark on a dangerous path that could onle lead him--and his crew--to doom. The parallels are obvious...;)

Plot Summary for
Moby Dick (1956)

This classic story by Herman Melville revolves around Captain Ahab and his obsession with a huge whale, Moby Dick. The whale caused the loss of Ahab's leg years before, leaving Ahab to stomp the boards of his ship on a peg leg. Ahab is so crazed by his desire to kill the whale, that he is prepared to sacrifice everything, including his life, the lives of his crew members, and even his ship to find and destroy his nemesis, Moby Dick.

***

IMDb user comments for
Moby Dick (1956)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

esteban1747
Rome, Italy

"Looking the way the captain Ahab behaved with his crew, imposing anything he wanted just to accomplish his ambitions of killing the whale, I was comparing him more with dictators of small countries, where everybody has to do the same as Ahab's crew did. The crew even died for a non sense cause. Power is a poison and it is well shown here. More than to see the film as an adventure I tried to penetrate a bit into the Ahab's mind. He was intelligent, literate but thirsty of revenge, inhuman, and unable to consider and respect the opinion of the rest. There was no respect for him as such because the people were simply afraid of him. Ahab was selfish and able to kill himself to get what he wanted, the lives of the rest here did not count.":confused:

http://us.imdb.com/t...13/usercomments
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#2619 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:15 PM

Donq; REVENGE CAN BE DANGEROUS ,

God warns the wicked; Deal not foolishly , lift not up your horn on high, speak not with a stiff neck;
All the horns of the wicked will be cut off; but the horns of the righteous shall be exalted;
The power of mighty men are no match for the wrath of God.
God will one day make all things right, will exalt those who have lived righteously, but have been dealt with treacherously by the fools of this world. (Psalm 75; )

The parallels are obvious...
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#2620 donquijote

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

<<<A smaller group of about 50 Libyan exiles protested nearby, chanting "Gaddafi terrorist" and holding a banner proclaiming "Gaddafi is a wolf in sheep's clothing.">>>

And the Old Wolves tell the stray Wolf, "Welcome back! Only condition is you use your Sheep Skin." "Nothing personal," they add, "only for appearances.";)

Gaddafi to West: Don't Force us Back to Bombing
By Marie-Louise Moller and Paul Taylor

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - On a turbulent maiden visit to the European Union (news - web sites), Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi (news - web sites) appealed to the West Tuesday to seize his offer of peace and not force his country back to its bad old days of the gun and the bomb.

(snip)

POLITICAL THEATER

Vaunting his five-year dialogue with Gaddafi dating back to a time when the Libyan leader was still an international pariah, Prodi broke with protocol to welcome Gaddafi at the airport.

The EU chief did not mention human rights or democracy at their joint media appearance but praised Libya's pledges to promote peace, stability and development in its region.

(snip)

A smaller group of about 50 Libyan exiles protested nearby, chanting "Gaddafi terrorist" and holding a banner proclaiming "Gaddafi is a wolf in sheep's clothing."

http://story.news.ya...m/eu_libya_dc_6
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