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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#2981 Bader

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:04 AM

MarqDS for the little animals well.
The majority has never got it right that is why disidents have a label.
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#2982 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 12:46 PM

Thank you Bader for the cold water... for the little animals well.

Two sides of cooperation on example UN and IMF.

In the past, in structure of interdependent countries UN looked like the great idea. UN supposes to be forum for solving problem independent countries. :)
Unfortunately in era of globalization, when sovereignty of the countries became diminished by international group of people who have power, UN became God Acre for swindlers, corruption and criminals to legalize their actions.:confused:

In contrary to bad legacy of UN cooperation, international cooperation of countries on debt default to IMF is good cooperation. :)
It will bring freedom from political and economical meddling of big and ferocious business. Thank you Argentina for your historical step. Now nations see the way of freed themselves from IMF dictatorship. :)
International cooperation in debt default is good cooperation.
It brins water well to its rightful owners. :)
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#2983 donquijote

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 01:36 PM

Wecome news in the homefront: the dinosaur is finally getting in shape. And not because it's concerned about the wellbeing of the little animals--since he's risking environmental and/or war catastrophe by his gluttony--but because of more mundane causes: the violent monkeys threaten to cut off his major source of food.

I heard this morning there's a certain refinery in Saudi Arabia that could easily cut off oil exports for 6 months to two years if destroyed...;)

I'd say the first step in lasting peace would be us getting in shape and wean off oil dependency in favor of alternative vehicles, ranging from bicycles to bullet trains...;)

Soaring Gas Prices Spur Interest in Hybrids
By Poornima Gupta

DETROIT (Reuters) - Hybrid vehicles made headlines in March after movie stars like Will Ferrell, Robin Williams and Tim Robbins used the Toyota Prius to get to the Academy Awards (news - web sites) show.

Their environmentally conscious fashion statement seems to have foreshadowed a trend. This spring, more and more Americans are looking to buy one of a growing array of fuel-saving vehicles designed to run on gasoline and electricity.

"With gasoline prices reaching beyond $2 per gallon and the general concern over the U.S.'s dependence on foreign oil, hybrid vehicles are catching more consumers' attention," Prudential Equity Group analyst Michael Bruynesteyn said in a recent research note.

Hybrids hold only a tiny share of the U.S. car and truck market, but sales have climbed 36 percent so far this year, according to research firm R.L. Polk & Co.

The vehicles, which get up to 55 miles on a single gallon of gasoline, are no longer just for technophiles or environmentalists, Bruynesteyn said.

A similar trend had surfaced during the energy crisis of the 1970s, when many Arab nations cut off oil exports to the United States and other counties. Gas prices surged, and many Americans turned to smaller cars, only to trade them in for bigger models when fuel got cheap again.

Now people again appear to be staying away from gas-thirsty vehicles. Sales of the Hummer H2 sports utility vehicle, which gets 11 to 13 miles per gallon, have cooled in recent months. And there are signs that people are staying away from other larger SUVs.

http://story.news.ya...tos_hybrid_dc_1
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#2984 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 02:45 PM

Some countries like Egypt plays cooperation in direction from wind blows;
Damascus: Syria is careful to maintain good relations with Egypt
Syria-Egypt, Politics, 5/29/2004

The sources said that Damascus is "careful to maintain excellent relations with Egypt," and therefore "talking about Egyptian- Syrian difference is not correct," adding that " a difference in opinion or view points does not mean there is a problem " in the relations. " on the ground of the differences in view points that took place in the Arab summit in Tunisia.

According to sources attended the summit, the representatives of the Arab states were asked to chose between two proposals for representing the Arabs to the G-8. The first was that the Egyptian President to be the representative and the second was that the secretary general of the Arab league Amr Moussa. However, the two proposals were rejected from most of the Arab states. The sources said that Jordan was the only country which approved the Egyptian proposal by putting this item on the agenda.

The sources considered that most of the Arab states agree on the Syrian opinion to that talking about these matters " should be at the bilateral level " and that "no body can represent others and that what is applicable to Syria will not necessarily not be applicable on Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait or even others." Chairman of the Egyptian Council's Board for Foreign affairs Mohammad Shaker underlined that the American sanctions is a dangerous move against all the region's countries, not only against Syria.

Ankara for boosting trade relations with Syria:)
Syria-Turkey, Politics, 5/29/2004
Turkish Minister of State for Trade Affairs, Korshad Tuzman, has underlined his country's determination to boost trade relations and volume of trade exchange between Syria and Turkey.

In a statement to reporters in the Turkish border city of Ghazi Enteb, Tuzman indicated that his scheduled visit to Syria tomorrow accompanied by a group of Turkish businessmen and politicians aims at underlining Turkey's determination to boost trade relations with Syria inspite of the sanctions that some party wants to impose on Syria.
Mubarak wraps up Russia visit, calls for end of Iraq occupation
Mubarak on Saturday also called for greater cooperation between Egypt and Russia, :) where he was making his third official visit, accompanied by several ministers and businessmen, since taking office in 1981. ??????
http://story.news.ya...pt_040529144204

:)
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#2985 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 08:55 PM

Passion of the Christ and Pope
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#2986 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 12:38 AM

I am very interested in result of Security Council resolution presented recently by US /UK.
If France, China and Russia pay their UN duties and don
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#2987 donquijote

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:43 AM

<First achieved human love for few thousand years, another bought shame for next few centuries.
My meditation on Pope entertaining Bush on Friday June 4 th.>

Woj, well said. Pope is there for the big lions. He doesn't even have an Email for the little people to get in tough with him...:confused:

Only hope among big people to stand up to the big lion is Chiraq. He got a webpage that welcomes your suggestions. At least he's not out of touch...;)
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#2988 Bader

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 06:45 AM

What was it WOJ?

Was it against syria- an embargo?
If the embargo is to stop all IMF, World Bank loans going into Syria, I would vote for it.

Cars have been and can be run on water.
Energy for industry and domestic use can be got direct out of the earth which is inexhorstable and no polution. But like the waterwell the lion will limit society to what he can control and its pointless blaming the politicians alone because Academia and
business/industry, media, scientists all play the game because they are earning too much to be affected- until too late.
Professional people dont rule the world but they run it. Just like the people in the FBI and Pentagon etc who know that Sept 11
was a crime by those who rule the US.
What does it take for them to do the decent thing?
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#2989 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:13 PM

Not democracy only Nationalism is the solution.

What defends democratic country when it doesn
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#2990 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 02:08 PM

donq; *What is solution for Terrorism. *
Why do you ask when everybody knows an answer;
- from expatriation to repatriation !

Saudi terror: why do the Westerners stay? Will Britons leave Saudi Arabia now?
Although they have been horrified by the murders, especially that of Michael Hamilton, a Briton whose body was tied behind a car and dragged through the streets, there is no great panic.
So why do the stay?
Most Britons work for large multinational companies that offer very lucrative rewards. They are not all employed in the oil industry, with many working in banking, medical services or finance.
These companies to offer a broad range of benefits for working in the kingdom, including tax-free salaries and paid-for private education for your children.
It is a very big decision to give this up and return home. Some might also find it difficult to adjust to living back in Britain. Expatrates will have become used to a certain standard of life that would be simply impossible to recreate for the same cost in Britain.
Some of the compounds in which the British live are very luxurious, with domestic help, swimming pools, etc. http://www.timesonli...129762,00.html;

So what is solution for Terrorism. Why do you ask when everybody knows an answer;
Move from expatriation to repatriation :)
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#2991 donquijote

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 03:02 PM

<Cars have been and can be run on water.
Energy for industry and domestic use can be got direct out of the earth which is inexhorstable and no polution. But like the waterwell the lion will limit society to what he can control and its pointless blaming the politicians alone because Academia and
business/industry, media, scientists all play the game because they are earning too much to be affected- until too late.
Professional people dont rule the world but they run it. Just like the people in the FBI and Pentagon etc who know that Sept 11
was a crime by those who rule the US.
What does it take for them to do the decent thing?>

Howdy Bader
Academia is the Owl that gets "promoted" to investigate life in other planets...;)

Meanwhile, an Owl --who had very good eyes-- had been observing life in the jungle, and thought this way: "Every time there's a dry season the little animals must come to the little dirty waterhole where the Lion waits for them... Had they been well fed and strong, he would have had to run after them and even risk resistance. And, more importantly, the little animals are forced to fight the Lion's wars as the only way out of poverty..."

And that's how the Owl landed an important --and well paid-- post in the brand new Astronomy Department created by the King of the Jungle --to the effect of exploring life in other planets...

***

They know what's going on but get paid to look the other way...;)

Here we got a lion dependent on foreign skilled workers who all of the sudden are the target of the violent monkeys. They never saw anything. They simply received a big chunk of meat.

But now they live in fear and face the dilemma: "Is the chunk of meat big enough for me to risk my life?"

So long as we live in the jungle there will be Owls and Hyenas willing to sell themselves for a big chunk of meat.:confused:

(I've put together here two articles)

Isolated abroad, hated at home: House of Saud faces uncertain future
By David Usborne in New York

When the terrorists who have identified themselves as members of al-Qa'ida took their hostages in Khobar last weekend, they were meticulous in choosing their targets. Muslims were allowed to leave; only foreign "infidels" were held and some were killed.

But the killers had another target: the ruling royal family. The House of Saud, which numbers upwards of 20,000 people and has had the kingdom in its grip since the 1920s, is held in suspicion by nearly everyone who is not a member of it. Even the Americans have rumbled its failures in combating terrorism since September 2001.

But more important is the hatred of the ruling clan among many Saudis, who are denied anything approaching democracy. They consider the family corrupt and to a large degree, infirm. King Fahd is incapacitated since suffering a stroke in 1995. The regent, Crown Prince Abdullah, who represents Saudi Arabia abroad and essentially rules it, is almost 80.

(snip)

The monarchy has promised steps towards democracy, but little action has been taken. There are doubts that promises of elections in 14 municipalities this year will be honoured. This is a country that has been without electoral democracy for nearly a century and critics remain sceptical.

Saudi Arabia operates only by the skills of expatriates, most of them non-Muslim and Western. But the terrorists are instilling such fear that eventually every expatriate will flee. But when they are gone, who will keep Saudi Arabia working? And if it becomes dysfunctional, what will the House of Saud do?

http://news.independ...sp?story=526960

***

So why do the expatriates stay?

Most Britons work for large multinational companies that offer very lucrative rewards. They are not all employed in the oil industry, with many working in banking, medical services or finance.

These comanies offer a broad range of benefits for working in the kingdom, including tax-free salaries and paid-for private education for your children.

It is a very big decision to give this up and return home. Some might also find it difficult to adjust to living back in Britain. Like the unfortunate Mr Hamilton, they have lived abroad for a number of years. Expatrates will have become used to a certain standard of life that would be simply impossible to recreate for the same cost in Britain.

Some of the compounds in which the British live are very luxurious, with domestic help, swimming pools, etc. There are scores of them to be found in Saudi Arabia, mainly around the main economic centres, such as Riyadh, Jeddah and al-Khobar.

Further attacks may have an effect on decisions to remain, although the companies that employ them are likely to increase salaries to attract others to the kingdom.

http://www.timesonli...1129762,00.html
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#2992 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 04:17 PM

Donq; *Cars have been and can be run on water.*

Do you advice US military to attack Canada for change?


How important is it for the U.S. that Iraq be a democracy?

The military should stay until Iraq has a fully democratic system
votes (27%)
The military should stay until Iraq is stable, regardless of the government
votes (54%)
The military should be exiting now
votes (19%)

http://discussions.w...e=3&submit=Vote


*U.K. Employment Paradise Is a Matter of Semantics: According to Beatty and Fothergill, almost 2.7 million non- employed people of working age were receiving sickness-related benefits. Tthat puts the stated 2.9 percent unemployment rate in a different light.
According to the latest available Eurostat figures, 27 percent of the British working-age population didn't work in 2002 because of illness.
What is certainly true is that the British should stop kidding themselves about curing unemployment.
http://quote.bloombe...=columnist_lynn

Donq; Should Saudi feed the English capitalists dropout?
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#2993 donquijote

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:36 PM

<Do you advice US military to attack Canada for change?>

It'll happen in time as water becomes scarce and the lion's waterhole becomes more and more dirty...;)

<How important is it for the U.S. that Iraq be a democracy?

The military should stay until Iraq has a fully democratic system
votes (27%)
The military should stay until Iraq is stable, regardless of the government
votes (54%)
The military should be exiting now
votes (19%)

http://discussions.w...e=3&submit=Vote>

Probably the soldiers got another opinion. The Army is having a hard time keeping them from deserting...;)

Army Program to Keep Some Soldiers on Duty
By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Thousands of soldiers who had expected to retire or otherwise leave the military will be required to stay if their units are ordered to Iraq (news - web sites) or Afghanistan (news - web sites).

The announcement Wednesday, an expansion of a program called "stop-loss," affects units that are 90 days or less from deploying, said Lt. Gen. Frank L. "Buster" Hagenbeck, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel.

Commanders can make exceptions for soldiers with special circumstances. Otherwise, soldiers won't be able to leave the service or transfer from their units until they return to their home bases after their deployments end.

The Army is struggling to find fresh units to continue the occupation of Iraq. Almost every combat unit has faced or will face duty there or in Afghanistan, and increased violence has forced the deployment of an additional 20,000 troops to the Iraq region, straining units even further.

(snip)

There has been criticism of the program as contrary to the concept of an all-volunteer military force. Soldiers planning to retire and get on with their lives now face more months away from their families and homes.

In an opinion piece in Wednesday's New York Times, Andrew Exum, a former Army captain who served under Hagenbeck in the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan, called the treatment "shameful."

"Many, if not most, of the soldiers in this latest Iraq-bound wave are already veterans of several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan," he wrote. "They have honorably completed their active duty obligations. But like draftees, they have been conscripted to meet the additional needs in Iraq."

http://story.news.ya...q_us_military_6

<Donq; Should Saudi feed the English capitalists dropout?>

In the jungle what counts is big bucks. That's it. "Contractors" are willing to pay the ultimate price and commit the gravest violations so long as they are given a big chunk of meat...

OK, the following is not a joke, even if you find yourself laughing...:D

Bush Likens War Against Terrorism to WWII
By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer

AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - President Bush (news - web sites) compared the fight against terrorists to the struggle against tyranny that forced World War II, telling new Air Force officers Wednesday that the United States and its allies can win the battle by bringing freedom and reform to the Middle East.

"Our goal, the goal of this generation, is the same" as it was in World War II, Bush said. "We will secure our nation and defend the peace through the forward march of freedom."

(snip)

Defending his focus, Bush said, "Some who call themselves realists question whether the spread of democracy in the Middle East should be any concern of ours. But the realists in this case have lost contact with a fundamental reality: America has always been less secure when freedom is in retreat; America is always more secure when freedom is on the march."

http://story.news.ya...mi_ea/us_iraq_1
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#2994 donquijote

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:34 AM

Howdy guys
This a new friend with a powerful message. His aim is the lion, his means, music. The power of music and satire put together to deliver the message to the little people.

I'd say, this the best way to beat the Bushes...;)

Burning Bushes
Almighty god looked down from his throne high in the sky/
his creatures were so decadent it made him want to him cry
They needed a shepherd to keep them in the fold/
a person theyd respect perceptive and bold
Moments later, far below, Moses witnessed his first light show
before his eyes a bush ignited, Moses feared he was being smited
When the bush commenced to speak, the shepherd felt his knees grow weak
The bush told Moses the Lord had chose him,
not to fear those who oppose him
God would furnish all the tools;
He was chiseling out a few basic rules
Moses prayed the nightmare would stop,
but whoosh, there he was on a mountaintop
there God gave him the 10 Commandments;
take two tablets, no enhancements
A few millennia later, when God checked back again
He couldnt believe his eyes/it was worse than it had been
Billions crammed the planet/ it was bursting at the seams/the DNA from rabbits somehow mixed with human genes
Once again He looked around
another shepherd had to be found
it might have been a tough decision
if not for Gods nearsighted vision
He saw a face he clearly recognized
and a Moses clone was atomized
A raging has-been actor cursed the blinding light
whoever was ad-libbing was itching for a fight
Silence, I am god; in my presence you should cower
Big deal, Im Charlton Hesston you wanna argue power?
I dont remember you being so rude;
be glad I m in a forgiving mood
youre gonna get a chance to improve your score
youll sure to do better than you did before
Im not sure just who you are,
but this is going way too far
Moses was only a role to play;
now Im in charge of the NRA
Explain just why you kidnapped me
or reach for leather at the count of three
I'd hoped the species would evolve
it continues to regress
human beings never use their heads,
the situations a mess
Other planets whisper that the earth is one big sewer
the ozone looks like Swiss cheese;
its amazing youve endured
Population runs amok, perhaps you should modernize
emulate big business lose the dead weight, downsize
Downsize, that might do the trick,
a prudent plan indeed,
Ill appoint you CEO just tell me what you need
Remember that old burning bush, the one that nearly toasted Moses tush /if you give me one to do this job Ill guarantee to shrink that mob
A burning bush is the perfect answer, better than accidents, aids or cancer
in a term or two Ill show you a population cut in two
Charlie beamed with confidence, God knew he was the man
the NRA would ignite the blaze, an inferno Bush would fan
Presidential power can veto population
a burning Bush without restraints could be the worlds salvation
Convicts will broil from coast to coast/states can hold contests to see who fries the most
Saut? in Seattle, stun them first like cattle
sizzle in South Dakota, marinade in Minnesota
Once the flame is crackling,
it will leap beyond our borders
countries from around the world can fax in their orders
Millions will go up in smoke; theyll never have a prayer the Bible set a precedent-- a Bush can burn anywhere
The carnage wont discriminate by color, race or sex
their ashes will be buried, labeled only with an X
Its as simple as the ABCs, one always knows whats next:
in the alphabet of life and death, after Dubyacomes X

http://bokamann.trip...ngsite/id4.html
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#2995 Bader

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 09:54 AM

Woj, Switzerland is the most democratic and has the best record of peace/no wars,
I agree with much of what you said but Afghanistan may fit what you described best. No democracy and gone from one invader to another, no IMF etc either.
I would make the point using the word sovereignty rather than nationalism. The US are very nationalist, but they have no sovereigty, they gave that away in 1913 to what are probably Rothschild front banks. The Third Reich on the otherhand stopped borrowing from the international bankers- created its own waterwell, thus war was inevitable and Hitler would have known that.
It might have been interesting had the two rebel nationist
dictators Hitler and Stalin had of been able to hold to a pact, their 1939 one,because the international bankers might have found it very hard to do anything about it inside some lengthy time. But while Hitler thought he was outsmarting the international Banker Lion he was under the influence of the Vatican one. So the pact was soon broken and I suspect that as a result the original internationalists who set up the Soviet Union regained the
ground lost under Satlin. I suspect that these two lions are now
working the one plot- the world has become that small.
Putin has said the days of Euro interference in Russian affairs are over, I hope it means what it says. By the time the US armed forces and half the youth of the US are rendered into sickness beneficiaries from duty in Afghan. and the Middle east who will free the Russians and save the peace up there?

Since the polls show the US public supports for remaining in Iraq
and would not contemplate loss of face, they will then allow conscrition next year, they are going to need it.

I know someone who worked recently in the Persian Gulf. The main reason Europeans work there is to pay off their debts back home.

Demockery is all the US is promoting in the Middle East. Dragging a foreigners body through the streets might well be what
Rumsfeld was insighting by his prison reforms (Abu Gharaib) with
photogallery. Note Bush talked about reforming the Middle East
not Iraq. Provoking violent reaction has worked for Israel for 50 years. When Bush said "we will secure our nation and defend the peace through the forward march of freedom" he was speaking as a Jew and referring to Israel. The Middle East has never been a threat to US. He has done too much business with them, same as Cheney and other nazis around him.
See what happens to nationaism when it loses its sovereignty.

The Road-map starts in Cairo which gets two and half billion p.a., or there abouts from the US taxpayer, and the Prime Minister in suit and tie replacing (becoming) the front image of the camoflage
army dress of the puppet "'terrorist" Arafat and the new admin of Iraq who will be bought with good old courrpt money, another gift of the American people in the cause of Israel along with the
dead and to be cronically and mysteriously sick for the rest of their lives. Fits your analysis if we use democracy (US)instead of nationalism, Woj.

If the oil is close to running out then why so late at such a price?
I dont believe the oil is the prize just a bonus. No one has presented an argument that says oil is about to go AND there is no technological hope of any substitute or alternative to
industrial implosion.
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#2996 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 11:21 AM

Donq; *new friend
This a new friend with a powerful message. His aim is the lion, his means, music*.

I disagree, regarding music, what about self serving acupunctures instead?.:)

Bader; * Putin has said the days of Euro interference in Russian affairs are over,*;

I think that Putin is right. Meeting in Normandy will be time for Europeans reflections. I don
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#2997 donquijote

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 01:59 PM

< I disagree, regarding music, what about self serving acupunctures instead?.:) >

Howdy Woj, the Soviet Union feared John Lennon as much as the West fears Bob Marley. One way to tell what works and what doesn't is to observe the reaction of the lion, ie. if it roars or not...;)

'It takes the reader into the Kremlin for special Central Committee meetings devoted to the "evil" of rock music'

Editorial Reviews
Book Description
In February 1987, Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev personally received Yoko Ono in Moscow. In a surprising revelation, Raisa declared that she and her husband were fans of John Lennon. While Raisa sang lyrics from a Lennon song, the Soviet leader observed solemnly, "John should have been here." It was a stunning declaration. After three decades of virulent anti-rock rhetoric, a Soviet leader had allied himself with the forces of rock & roll. In the era of glasnost and perestroika, rock & roll has provided, in a very real sense, the soundtrack to the Gorbachev revolution. This stunning policy shift has fueled the already burgeoning Soviet rock scene and has commanded intense media attention in the West.
But as Timothy W. Ryback demonstrates in this lively and revealing book, Western music, particularly rock & roll, is not new to the Soviet bloc. Indeed, as Mr. Ryback shows, rock music has effected one of the most significant transformations ever in Soviet bloc society. He traces the emergence of rock culture in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union from 1954 to the present day, where it has become unquestionably the most pervasive form of mass cultural activity in Communist society. Charting this process, Rock Around the Bloc looks at both sides of the thirty-year war between rock fans and Soviet bloc governments. It takes the reader into the Kremlin for special Central Committee meetings devoted to the "evil" of rock music; into the streets of beleaguered 1968 Prague and 1981 Poland where rock bands and their fans helped spearhead social and political reforms; and into the bedrooms of young people secretly tuning into rock broadcasts from the BBC and Radio Free Europe.

(snip)

Informed throughout by a deep knowledge and love for the music as well as an understanding of the Soviet bloc's political and social realities, Rock Around the Bloc tells a fascinating story on many levels: the liberalization of communist society, the traumas and triumphs of Soviet bloc youth culture, the spread of rock's influence in unlikely places, and the surprisingly rich variety of rock & roll in Eastern Europe that keeps its kinship to western music while forging a unique identity all its own. Engagingly written and full of compelling detail, Ryback's definitive account will delight all rock fans and will fascinate people interested in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, and modern social history.

http://www.bomp.com/...pbooksIntl.html

Marley, on the other hand, represents a challenge to "Babylon"...;)

'The PBS documentary, Jeremy Marre's excellent "Rebel Music," makes clear
that Bob's talents as an entertainer are among the least of the reasons
why people are still talking about him today. Marley was a "real
revolutionary," on whom the CIA kept a file which it still refuses to
release, for reasons of "national security." He was the voice of a new
world trying to be born, the face of international freedom movements,
both political and spiritual. Today, Bob is a paradox: it is primarily
as a spokesperson for underprivileged people that he has become a global
icon, but his music and image have become thoroughly commodified in
every imaginable way.

(snip)

'for many of us working in mainstream institutions, yet committed to
a transformation of those institutions, Bob represents something far
greater. I think that many of us hope that, once Bob has been brought
into Prime Time, then like some latter-day Trojan horse, the secret
cargo of his revolutionary ideals will spill out and transform those
institutions from within.
Rather utopian, of course, but also thoroughly in keeping with the
philosophy of the Rastas, the culture which spawned Bob. They believe in
a concept called Word/Sound/Power.
That is, if you combine visionary words with seductive sounds, you get
world-transforming power. Bob and the Rastas ritually refer to this as
"Chant Down Babylon." It's a variant on the Bible story about the ritual
demolishing of Jericho's walls. But it's got a curiously post-modern
twist: Babylon is chanted down from within, because its youths get
seduced by a music voicing a more attractive alternative to hedonism and
consumerism.'

http://webspawner.co...rs/donquijote10
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#2998 Bader

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 08:46 PM

I dont share your enthusiasm for French and German nationalism
which is only superficial because they have sold out to the UE financial authority which seals the sovereingty of the UE over Frech and German citizens which is why the British wont have a bar of it. Russia is No1 in Europe in that respect.

The Turks put a fundamentalist govt in after a history of secular govts which sounds more nationistic to me, nuetralising the US and Israeli influence there. They were prepared to lose a lot of money over not selling out their muslim neighbours. Their army hasnt been subjected to radiation sickness, worth more than the money they lost.

Gorbachev and lennon appeared to have the same fantasy goal of becoming the worlds man of peace, a modern Christ-Ghandi,
the praise and worship of man and the lions press.
The world mainsteam have moved on from Lennon and Marley who are only remembered by the staunchest fans.
Bob Dylon had the greater appeal because he wasnt an egocentric like Lennon, exposed the hypocricy of the Lion culture
while being simple and direct, unlike Marley who appears to have a hidden agenda to capture people into his culture- escape into my jungle away from the lion.
The CIA may simply have kept tabs on him because they rulled the drug world in the Americas.
As for sound/lyrics and beat as a means of subliminal indoctrination and capturing the souls of people enmass, Marley is but a small stream in a large river. Satan worship rules across
music just as in books (harry potter) and movies.
The lion isnt as stupid as you think, hes very cunning.
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#2999 donquijote

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 03:34 AM

<Gorbachev and lennon appeared to have the same fantasy goal of becoming the worlds man of peace, a modern Christ-Ghandi,
the praise and worship of man and the lions press.>

Howdy Bader
They were good entertainment. They weren't consequent with what they preached, and in no way they threatened the jungle, so they were "in"...;)

<The world mainsteam have moved on from Lennon and Marley who are only remembered by the staunchest fans.
Bob Dylon had the greater appeal because he wasnt an egocentric like Lennon, exposed the hypocricy of the Lion culture
while being simple and direct, unlike Marley who appears to have a hidden agenda to capture people into his culture- escape into my jungle away from the lion.>

I do disagree about Marley though. Rasta culture rejects capitalism, and they live a simple life. They do have a lion as a symbol, but that's the good lion. Marley does represent a rebel against the bad lion, pretty much like Che Guevara, but much better, both because he chose non violence and because he rejected both capitalist and communist lions...:cool:

This an interview with a "disciple" of Marley...;)

MH- How did you learn to accept that[Biblical] inspiration? Was it your upbringing?

KK- Church, ya know, church-going as a youth. And when I heard reggae music as a youth, particularly the prophet Bob Marley, then I was like,
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#3000 Bader

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 05:57 AM

Howdy DonQ:
I enjoy your come-back and get a good hearty laugh from time to time. Its excellent, so we dont take ourselves too seriously.
A great stabiliser.

The Beatles were the first to mix, rock n roll, drugs and a spirituality(Indian) plus a uniform hairstyle. Marley seems to have made it more cult like.

Reminds me of an American guy from the sixties who immigrated to lybia who was a drug cult guru who preached drugs as a way of linking with god. Timothy Leary was his name. He was good entertainment as well. Wore his hair long and used an Nth American Indian style headband. He was real loose and unelevated.
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