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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#3501 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 12:20 PM

Donq; @don't s*** in the well @

Have you ever heard Judeo- Christian leaders saying words of admiration for nature? No.
They are interested in collecting stones or bricks to build monuments to show God power and collect more money
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#3502 donquijote

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 01:11 PM

Donq; @don't s*** in the well @

<Have you ever heard Judeo- Christian leaders saying words of admiration for nature? No.
They are interested in collecting stones or bricks to build monuments to show God power and collect more money--.>

Howdy Woj
I'm sure it's part of it. But Scandinavia takes good care of the environment while embracing Christianity.;)

I'd like to know though of any nation or tribe where their religious beliefs help protect the environment. I don't think even the Chinese do.

Dollar God reigns over the world...:confused:
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#3503 donquijote

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 01:24 PM

Those who want the Law of the Jungle (in their own terms) are predators, not Libertarians. Those who accept MORAL OBLIGATIONS could be considered the GOOD LION.;)

THE SOCIAL CONTRACT

Thomas Paine, previously cited numerous times, wrote that
society is always a blessing, and not to be confused with govern-
ment, which is essentially a police force--coercion, for short.
At that time I added that SOME government--as little as pos-
sible--is NECESSARY to protect the rights of the majority in any
society, who act in good faith, from INJURY by the selfish few to
whom "good faith" is an oxymoron.
Many so-called Libertarians will disagree vehemently with my
viewpoint, because I talk about moral obligations. Such persons
have no sense of moral obligations that I can discover. To them,
conscience--as Mencken wrote--is just the voice inside that tells
them someone might be watching.
In short, they want a license to steal--and they attempt to
justify their selfishness by saying they're Libertarians.

CONCLUSIONS

I submit that Libertarians must examine their own thinking
very carefully and decide if they are willing to accept the ideal
of social responsibility or not.
If no, I suggest they get out of the Libertarian Party, or
that true Libertarians unite to issue a Manifesto on a philosophy
that addresses (a) the necessity of accepting a responsibility
with every right; (B) the necessity of protecting the rights of
unborn Americans to as healthy an environment as our generation
inherited; and © the necessity of protecting those innocent and
unfortunate persons who are unable to protect themselves from the
rapacious greed and amorality of sociopaths who seek to live by
the law of the jungle.
If the Libertarian Party cannot concoct a platform of basic
ethical principles that go beyond mere freedom, the party should
be prepared to close up shop.

http://www.mega.nu:8...kbros/pg10.html
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#3504 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 02:47 PM

Donq; @Those who accept MORAL OBLIGATIONS could be considered the GOOD LION@

Moral Obligations are like weather changes with time and space;

For example when Gibraltar population voted to stay with UK it is considered decisive condition.
When Repblika Serbska vots to join Serbia it is considered negligence circumstance.
Leaders power is treated as a moral obligations.
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#3505 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 12:38 AM

> >'Cuz they joined the military. Most of 'em are happy to go and defend the
> >country. They're keeping the bad guys busy over there, which distract's 'em a
> >lot from being able to cause death and destruction here.
>
> Almost. They were doing that in Afghanistan when they were hunting Al
> Qaeda. Then they were pulled off that duty and put to bringing down
> Saddam, who had absolutely zero to do with terrorist attacks against
> the US, beyond making nasty faces at Bush.
>
> Now Bush has proven what Osama has been saying all along, that America
> wanted to invade an oil rich Arab country. The power hand off?
> Considering that it's a former terrorist (against Saddam though, so
> it's okay, I guess he's a freedom fighter) who has worked closely with
> the CIA and MI6 over the years who was chosen by the Americans to be
> the man in charge and that there are still 130k American troops there,
> how many Iraqis (never mind the rest of the world) do you think
> believe that it is Iraqis in control?

Hussein should have learned from Noriega... ;)
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#3506 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:18 AM

Woj, now I know what you mean. Russia is embracing the Law of the Jungle, and only the people united can stop it.;)

They must be following the American model. I heard this today: Being uninsured in America is the main health risk. A woman, just to name a case, went without mammograms because she wasn't covered until she found that she had a cancer. Of course, it was too late.:confused:

Another victim of the Law of the Jungle.

Russian OKs Unpopular Social Reform Laws

MARIA DANILOVA

MOSCOW - Russia's pro-Kremlin parliament on Tuesday backed a bill that would replace benefits such as subsidized transportation and medicine with cash payments, dismantling remnants of the Soviet welfare state and affecting millions of vulnerable citizens, including war veterans and pensioners.

The proposed legislation is part of the unpopular and potentially painful reforms President Vladimir Putin has promised to tackle during his second term. It has sparked criticism across Russia, with nearly daily protests in Moscow last week and several rallies held in dozens of Russia's far-flung regions over the past month.

The State Duma supported the bill Tuesday in a 304-120 vote, with one abstention, and was expected to pass it in a final vote Thursday. The bill then must be approved by the upper house, which is also obedient to the Kremlin, before it goes to Putin for his signature.

Advocates of the government-backed bill say substituting cash for benefits will make aid more accurately targeted - arguing, for example, that public transportation is scarce in rural areas and supplies of subsidized medicines are short. They also say it will put people less at the mercy of the country's laborious bureaucracy.

But opponents of the bill - which affects over 30 million of the neediest Russians, more than one-fifth of the population - say the proposed payments, which start at $5 a month, will be eaten away quickly by inflation and will not be paid in full by regional authorities. They also say some privileges, such as job guarantees for the disabled, are not subject to any monetary compensation.

"It's incompatible - what they are giving and what they are taking away from us," said Mikhail Novikov, an activist for the disabled. He added that the monthly payment of some $35 he would be entitled to won't come close to covering needs such as medicines, regular medical care and sanatorium stays.

While lawmakers debated the bill, activists staged new protests in the vicinity of the Duma, which was cordoned off by police. Several young members of the liberal Yabloko party wrapped themselves in white bandages to resemble mummies and pinned notes on their bodies saying: "This is what we will become after they ban the benefits."

Tamara Kondratyeva, a 76-year-old retiree, who has to survive on an $85 monthly pension said she doesn't know how to make ends meet if free transportation and medical care are canceled.

"It really hurts. We tried so hard to beat those Germans (in World War II) and now they (the Russian authorities) are destroying us," Kondratyeva said bitterly.

Injured veterans of the war would receive a monthly payment of $53 under the law, Russian news agencies reported.

"This is what happens when you have a one-party parliament," independent lawmaker Svetlana Goryacheva told reporters Tuesday. The main pro-Kremlin party, United Russia, swept December parliamentary elections and now dominates the Duma, holding more than two-thirds of its 450 seats.

Duma speaker Boris Gryzlov, of United Russia, said in televised comments Tuesday that he "was deeply convinced" that the situation for citizens now entitled to benefits "will significantly improve" with the new law.

But lawmakers outside United Russia lambasted the bill.

"Scientists first experiment on animals. But our government is experimenting on people, on the whole country," said Gennady Seleznyov, an ex-Communist and former Duma speaker who now is an independent lawmaker.
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#3507 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:32 AM

JOHN SAYLES

This fall, John Sayles, one of America's most celebrated independent
filmmakers, releases his 15th feature film, SILVER CITY, a tale of a
corrupt candidate for governor. "Do we expect our candidates... to
actually be people who know anything, who can govern, who have a
vision,
who know that Africa is not a country," he asks. "Or do we expect them
to just be mascots for the people who are really running things?"
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#3508 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:57 AM

> >"society and state are not to be confused"
>
> Statists disparage the distinction all the time.

There's a big difference: The difference between lion and little
animals. The lion--the King of the Jungle--claims he has been chosen
by the little animals, but many say that the lion is simply eating the
little animals. So whether this is democracy or Law of the Jungle, may
depend on who you trust...

>
> >THE SOCIAL CONTRACT
>
> There's only one clause in the "social contract" worth examining, and
> that's the one which says "society" may unilaterally change the terms
> at any time without notice, even ex post facto. A "contract"
> enforcable against only one side (the individual) is no contract at
> all.

Well, I know the sheep want to impose certain pressure on the black
sheep to behave like them. But, sure, the black sheep may as well be
the only one right.

>
> >that addresses (a) the necessity of accepting a responsibility
> >with every right;
>
> I know all about those. You're told you have a bunch of rights, but
> with each right comes a "responsibility" in fine print which vitiates
> the right. E.g. you have the right to free speech, but the
> responsibility to shut the **** up.

Are talking about America *now*? Actually dissent is an expression of
democracy, and the black sheep may be a better user of democracy than
the sheep in voting for the lion.

>
> >(B) the necessity of protecting the rights of
> >unborn Americans to as healthy an environment as our generation
> >inherited;
>
> This is a _conservative_ article, as this red-flag tells you. Are you
> sure it's on your approved list?

This is not a conservative article, this a True Libertarian article.
The difference is easily appreciated in this compass...

OK, time to take a poll to see who's who...

http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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#3509 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:16 PM

Who's more democratic, the sheep or the black sheep?;)

http://engforum.prav...?threadid=90859
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#3510 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:56 PM

> Ya got a nice one-note piano there with that Iraq stuff, about which I don't
> really care. The facts are that Saddam lost Gulf War 1, he made some treaties,
> broke 'em repeatedly over the years, fired at our airplanes almost daily,
> kicked out the WMD inspectors, and failed to account for the WMD's. That's
> enough, in my book, to invade and take his little tinker toy box apart.
>
> Now, if the damn democrats hadn't cut funding to the CIA every time somebody
> blinked, and made nonsensical rules about not being able to use "unsavory
> characters" for information gathering, so's the CIA was forced to attempt to do
> their jobs without spies on the ground (impossible) then maybe we would have
> _known_ one way or the other about the WMD's, and a lot of other things, and
> might have not only avoided the war in Iraq, but maybe intercepted AQ's plans
> and stopped 9/11. But noooo... we have to cut the CIA to the bone, because it
> is of course evil according to left-wing "blame America first" pinheads in
> congress, and this is what we get.

In the new world whenever you have suspicions of someone actually
presenting a threat to you, you just shoot first. Then find out what
the guy was really up to. Of course, don't forget his wallet... ;)
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#3511 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:30 PM

Donq; @Hussein should have learned from Noriega
@Woj, now I know what you mean. Russia is embracing the Law of the Jungle, and only the people united can stop it.
They must be following the American model. I heard this today: Being uninsured in America is the main health risk.@


This Day in History ; Aftermath of the atomic blast at Hiroshima, Japan, August 1945.

On this day an atomic bomb carried from Tinian Island in the Marianas in a specially equipped U.S. B-29 was dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima, at the southern end of Honshu. The combined heat and blast pulverized everything in the explosion's immediate vicinity, generated spontaneous fires that devastated almost 11.4 square km (4.4 square miles), and killed between 70,000 and 80,000 people, as well as injuring more than 70,000 others. Deaths from radiation injury mounted in later years.
Hussein never surrounded and Us is nowhere. Not law of Jungle?

Manuel Noriega Panamanian military leader, commander of the Panamanian Defense Forces (1983
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#3512 donquijote

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:04 PM

<Results of coops cooperation were most visible in in an example of American Johnstown community when all members were poisoned or killed .
Congratulation Donq!>

You are wrong: Jim Jones was the biggest lion with the loyal sheep following him. Jonestown was a consequence of the jungle...

"The Peoples Temple cult, and specifically the mass suicide of so many of its members, represents an anomaly, and therefore a breakdown, in the culture of mid-twentieth century America. An examination of the development and eventual self-destruction of the Peoples Temple should shed light on that culture. The Jonestown cult was born of that culture and in turn reflects back upon it, that is, the Peoples Temple was effected (created) by mainstream American culture of its time and in turn affected that same culture."

http://www.owlnet.ri.../Jonestown.html

We are talking here about getting rid of the lion and setting the sheep free.;)
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#3513 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:29 PM

Jim Jones
orig. James Warren Jones
born May 13, 1931, Ind., U.S.
died Nov. 18, 1978, Jonestown, Guyana
U.S. leader and a preacher in Indianapolis. He established the People's Temple, which was affiliated with the Disciples of Christ and opposed racism and poverty. The group moved to San Francisco in 1971. Accused of defrauding church members, Jones led his group to Guyana in 1977 and set up the agricultural commune of Jonestown, using threats and force to control his followers. In 1978 U.S. Congressman Leo Ryan went to Jonestown to investigate allegations against Jones. Ryan and four others were killed when they reached the airport to return to the U.S. In the aftermath, most of the Jonestown residents, in a mass rite of murder-suicide, were shot or poisoned; Jones died of a gunshot wound. The death toll was 913, including many children.
http://www.britannic...y=jim jones&ct=
Lion and sheep are two sides of life, like day and night . Eternal Things.
It is unreasonable to fight night or day.
But as electricity help us to see at night, the Slav bond would protect us from US/UK or other danger. Slavs unite.!
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#3514 donquijote

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 04:34 AM

Pitting one worker against the other... can only benefit the capitalist. The lion is the big winner...;)

Global economy a jungle for fittest
Aug. 5, 2004 12:00 AM

Thank you for Dawn Gilbertson's informative story about ON Semiconductor's activity in China ("OM Semiconductor stays a step ahead in China," Monday).

Objective reporting about the need for all companies to remain competitive to stay alive is hard to find in these days of media hysteria over the "outsourcing" of American jobs.

The truth is, we do live in a global economy. The fact that most U.S. union leaders can't see that, and want to maximize protectionist barriers around U.S. industry, does not alter this reality.

Satellite TV, the Internet and efficient global shipping services have all served to speed market globalization. While it may produce a sad story for some American families, U.S. workers must realize that they are competing with some very talented, motivated and well-educated foreign workers.

As described in the article about ON, in many cases foreign workers are more motivated, more interested in a company's success, and more sensitive to the importance of customer service than the American who once held the job.

That they will work for far less in wages is icing on the cake for the employer.

The law of the jungle - survival of the fittest - applies to economies, to companies and, like it or not, to employees. The sooner the American workforce learns this, the better for it and for our country. - Harold T. Crutcher, Scottsdale
The writer is a retired CEO.
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#3515 Bader

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 09:45 AM

globally pit worker against worker amounts to a rush to the bottem. Thats the jungle alright.

Jonestown wasnt an example of religious freedom nor joint free enterprise (coop), rather it was an example of people surrendering to a leader and mob society where the individual doesnt count, only the society. They developed a gheto mentality with a presecution complex highly developed elsewhere.
Used in part on the Sept 11 event by Bushpuppeteers. Look how sick the americans are (eg one note piano) in following the psychological propoganda. Is dying in Iraq anyless patheic than in Jonestown? Defrauding church members - Enron and others, same jungle. Jones and Bush claimed they were serving god.
A society in self-destruct. I tend to expect there will be no election. Tom Ridge keep talking up a terrorist strike in the US, it could be mistaken for prayer, should he resign if it doesnt happen?
Perhaps the terrorists are putting rat poisen in the in US sugar.

An article in www.sydney.indymedia.org

by Seymour Hersh claims al Qaeda were Mossad organised.
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#3516 donquijote

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 02:36 PM

<Jonestown wasnt an example of religious freedom nor joint free enterprise (coop), rather it was an example of people surrendering to a leader and mob society where the individual doesnt count, only the society. They developed a gheto mentality with a presecution complex highly developed elsewhere.>

Howdy Bader
If anything it's Woj's proposal of sheepish behavior that can make such a scenario likely.

In our case, we would have smelled the lion, and we would have challenged him.;)

<An article in www.sydney.indymedia.org>

I just published there. Thanks!
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#3517 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 08:25 PM

- Donq/Bader; @Jonestown wasnt an example of religious freedom nor joint free enterprise (coop), rather it was an example of people surrendering to a leader and mob society where the individual doesnt count, only the society. They developed a gheto mentality with a presecution complex highly developed elsewhere.>
If anything it's Woj's proposal of sheepish behavior that can make such a scenario likely@

@A dinosaur bird that lived 147 million years ago had a brain similar to a modern eagle or parrot and was equipped to fly.
Archaeopteryx is the most ancient bird known. It had the bony tail and teeth of a dinosaur and the feathers and wings of a bird but its flying ability has never been proven.
"Archaeopteryx's brain, its senses and its ear turned out to be surprisingly more bird-like than we thought," "It is regarded as the most primitive bird we know and its skeleton is almost all dinosaur except that it has feathers and wings, so we were surprised that its brain was already quite an advanced bird-like brain."

Archaeopteryx was small -- about the size of a European magpie. The evidence showing it was capable of flying"
Archaeopteryx's brain was fully equipped for flight and it had a bird-like brain. Obviously the evolutionary trends that led to that must have happened a lot further back in time than we really thought,"
"This animal had huge eyes and a huge vision region in its brain to go along with that, and a great sense of balance.
"Its inner ear looks very much like the ear of a modern bird."
"The results have implications for both the biology of Archaeopteryx and the evolutionary transition to birds,"
"But flight isn't just about wings, rudders and flaps. It's also about the pilot and on-board computer, and those are the missing elements that this new study provides for Archaeopteryx," http://www.reuters.c...32&pageNumber=1


As present bird is not much different from warm blood dinosaur , the same situation is with old and present human beings.

Problem is that intentions are not the reality;
capitalism moved to dictatorship of imperialism monopolies, socialism and communism to state monopolies,
coops to ghettos.
Recognizing the facts is not sheepish behavior.
Everybody should have right to make a choices, and I elect for me the Slavs nationalism. Separation of nations is more useful than globalization or internationalism.
Free market only between people of one blood.
High fences make the good friends, and the same is with the borders. Coops out. Slavs unite. :)
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#3518 Bader

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 01:51 AM

obviously the archaeopteryx started its evolution before life began, to have advanced further than the rest,
-its not sheepish to recognise the facts that there wasnt
any development, but since it doesnt fit the theory change the
presumptions so the facts seem to fit it.

"it turned out to be more....than we thought", they are starting wakeup. Perhaps another ten million years they might drop it.

"the same situation is with old and present human beings"
what ? the old had feathers and cold blooded?
Cant imagine anything living while its blood corpusles were developing to be able to carry oxygen. Perhaps all the internal organs were external and obsorbing oxygen direct from the air and slowy changed from there till they could be inside behind rib and bone and fat pretection when they started to develop fighting skills and got rough with each other.

The coop Woj epitomises unity in enterprise/common cause,
also inclusivity and the recognition of the value/place of all,
of brotherhood but more importantly the increment of association being disbursed to everyone.
The dispusement ensures the individual has the means to make choices. The monopoly steals the increment and limits choices.
The coop model is a natural defence against the monopoly.
Globalism steals the increment and the resouces across national boundaries.
If Slavs united under one national/cultural boundary shouldnt they enjoy the full benefit of their own enterpise? Then the principles of the coop is the best means and this doesnt mean they have to literally live in a kibbutz style of living, and their polical structure would probably be similar to Switzerland-
cantons, small government and nationally armed.
You never make any proposals about how a slavic society could
create a socio-economic entity as me and DonQ do.
Is this your constitution= slavs unite; just two words?
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#3519 Bader

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 08:10 AM

The quote following is of C.H.Douglas, the founder of the social credit movement, third edition of his book The Monopoly of Credit
published in 1951,
The time is following the First World War:

"After a lapse of a short period of feverish production and industrial prosperity, accompanied by rapidly rising prises, the policy of deflation was simultaneously inaugurated in the United States and Great Britain about April, 1920.
The effects were immediate. In the United States the number of unemployed rose from negligible figures to six million within three months, and in Great Britain effects proportionate to the size of the population were similarly experienced. In the United States
this policy was reversed after a period of about 6 months, to be followed by eight years of the greatest material prosperity ever experienced by any country in history, during which the deposits in the Member Banks of the Federal Reserve System rose by $1,873,000,000. For reasons which appear to be connected with the subservience of the Bank of England to the Federal Reserve
Bank of the USA, the policy of deflation pursued in Great Britain, almost alone amongst industrial countries, with results which are fresh in the memory, but which may be conveniently visualised upon examination of the chart on page 135. During this period the deposits in the five large joint stock banks together rose by only $16,000,000.
The policy of deflation in Great Britain was divided into two stages, the first stage consisting in a rapid reduction in the total amount of currency notes in circulation, the figure being in the first place fixed at $348 millions as a result of provision that the total in any year should not exceed the minimum circulation of the preceeding year. Since the stagnation of trade was itself a prime cause in the reduction of the circulation of treasury notes, a progressive reduction from year to year was inevitable, and by 1928 the total Bank of England and Treasury notes had fallen
to $260,000,000. The Federal Reserve Bulletin, in contrast, remarked in December, 1926, that the volume of money in circulation in the USA on November 1st was larger by $32,000,000 than at the corresponding date in 1925."

This shows how the international bankers knee-capped the
British and promoted the USA in their place. They control the money supply and the financial policy and thus govt and its policy.
So when the British or Americans or Germans etc are blamed for
what they do the banksters gets away with Lions share of responsibility.

The Great Depression followed the above which took the
industrial world to war to get out of it, just as demonstrated above its all a matter of policy, like selecting gears. The figures given were pounds not dollars.

The Bank of International Settlements started functioning in 1930, so by the time the industrial countries had gone through a
depression, then a world war, Europe was ready for the Treaty of Rome which became UE, effectively ending nationalism and sovereignty and now they are all coming under one bank. The BIS is effectively the central bank of all the member central banks,
just as the British joint stock banks were subordinate to the
Bank of England. Which effectively means it is an invisible govt
that the peoples have no understanding off and no way of influencing.
Is this any less ruthless than the Soviet Union was?
Capitalism is man exploiting man, and communism is the reverse.
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#3520 donquijote

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 02:42 PM

<Is this any less ruthless than the Soviet Union was?
Capitalism is man exploiting man, and communism is the reverse.>

Howdy Bader
Big difference. I forgot about that.;)

So these banks would be the puppeteer, and the corporations what, the hyenas working for the lion?
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