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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#3701 donquijote

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 01:13 PM

<I am making obsevations, small south american country, decide to go with the socialist ideals, elects prime minister/presidents etc.... is then seen to have too much influence and begins to change marketing strategy.. buying from someone else, nationalising the big corporate bodies.. giving greater power to the people....... and what do the big corporate bodies do.... gang up with the intellignece service and undermine, create some bad publicity, get the media involved what a bad guy he is we must help Opppsss we taken over and our friend is now in power.... recognise anyone or any where?>

Howdy Descartes
Yep, it rings a bell. However this is not what I have in mind as these authoritarian-socialist-bureaucratic solutions are more a problem than a solution. THEY DO INVITE TROUBLE, just by creating webs of complicity with all kinds of little lions in the world. All they do is replace a big lion for a small one, and then the big one claims he's concerned about"democracy" in the little kingdom, and promotes "freedom fighters" and voila, there you have another little war for the arm dealers and more repression for the little people...

Now, if we come up with something REAL GOOD, and make no effort to create webs of complicity, and not nationalize, but teach the people to organize themselves in coops and bring experts from places like Denmark where these things have been happening for over a century, and promote freedom, what will the lion do, and what should we do?
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#3702 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 01:37 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
> > Okay. Oh, and he also says that in the White House, he
And I think you conservatives get too involved with the small issues
like how Clinton was given oral sex by Monica (nice, no?),



Milosevic returns to court; Clinton returns on trial for aggression against Serbs , for breaking up Yugoslavia, of an attempt to wipe out Croatia's Serb minority from Kosovo and plot to create an Islamic state in Bosnia.
Clinton created the Yugoslav tribunal, in 1993, is an illegal, anti-Serbian institution established to eliminate the foreign political opponents.

Milosevic wants to call former President Bill Clinton Prime Minister Toby Blair and German Chancellor Gerhard Stirred to witness stand. http://story.news.ya.../news?intercept tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_re_eu/war_crimes_milosevic&cid=518&ncid=716

I wouldn
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#3703 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:47 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
Now, if we come up with something REAL GOOD, and make no effort to create webs of complicity, and not nationalize, but teach the people to organize themselves in coops and bring experts from places like Denmark where these things have been happening for over a century, and promote freedom, what will the lion do, and what should we do?





Take swedish, or danish, as another example ... they're also languages that are comprised of mixed words from different original languages. All words, that are made today are taken from english. The grammar, is also a mirror of english grammar ... that is completely contrary to the language it is supposed to originate from. Go back in time, and you'll see influences of all major powers of each era being reflected in the language. What it reveals, is a populace who aren't their own masters and haven't been that for a longer period of time.

The language reveals the will of the people, whom the language represent. http://engforum.prav...15&pagenumber=2

The armed-neutrality treaty of 1794 between Denmark and Sweden, to which Russia and Prussia adhered in 1800, was considered a hostile act by England. In 1801 a detachment of the British navy was sent to Copenhagen. After a fierce battle in the harbor, Adm. Horatio Nelson, ignoring orders to withdraw from the fleet commander, Sir Hyde Parker, instead continued to destroy most of the Danish fleet. Danish losses amounted to some 6,000 dead and wounded, six times those of the British. Denmark subsequently withdrew from the neutrality treaty.
http://www.britannic...before wwii&ct=

REAL GOOD
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#3704 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Bader
The Canadian zionist meeting Golda Meir attended as a young
zionist was addressed by a Rabbi who spelt it out, the purpose of setting up a state in Palestine had nothing to do with the Real Jews historical past, it was to create a base from which they
(imposter Jews) were to get control of the oil and gas.
At this point the (chicken run)....



Golda Meir or miscalculation on Stalin side , who brought to UN the request of creating state of Israel.
Stalin didn
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#3705 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:54 AM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Milosevic returns to court; Clinton returns on trial for aggression against Serbs , for breaking up Yugoslavia, of an attempt to wipe out Croatia's Serb minority from Kosovo and plot to create an Islamic state in Bosnia.
Clinton created the Yugoslav tribunal, in 1993, is an illegal, anti-Serbian institution established to eliminate the foreign political opponents.

Milosevic wants to call former President Bill Clinton Prime Minister Toby Blair and German Chancellor Gerhard Stirred to witness stand. http://story.news.ya.../news?intercept tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_re_eu/war_crimes_milosevic&cid=518&ncid=716

I wouldn-t call it the small issues:)



That's no small issue, but that defense is not going to work. Little lions in disgrace are abandoned to their fate. If they are puppet then is OK...;)
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#3706 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:58 AM

Woj, do you consider France banana republic too? Don't you see it's more original than any Slavic project going on now?

Slavs Unite!;)

> > I do not want the government
> > deciding what I am having for dinner... Want that? Move to France...
>
> Well, you should check your own country before blaming the other
> countries... For your information, my government never issued any pyramid or
> anything telling the people how they should it, nor tried to enforce it on
> schools. There are only guidelines that dietitians must monitor the school
> menues, but what nutritionnal scheme they chose to apply is up to the
> dietitian. Likewise, in lieu of a food pyramid, there are advices that olive
> oil might be good for your health, but that's all, I can still buy 100% pure
> cooking lard or duck fat in *any* French supermarket. If you want dietetic
> advices, you turn to a doctor, not the government or the food and drug
> administration here...

They think you are socialist just because America is communist...;)

But going back to the subject, you get all the barrage of
preservatives, conservants, artificial colorants and hydrogenated oil
(trans fatty acids) there? You get complete ingredient label? The
former is very bad in America but the latter is very good.
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#3707 Bader

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 05:01 AM

The dynamics of centralised planning (socialism) creates a
dictatorship of an elite/bureaucracy and enslaves people. The greatest resourse of any society/economy is the people. So ultimately the socialist/communist state becomes arthritic because it is for ever killing the goose which lays the golden egg.

Capitalism from the opposite direction bleeds the goose that lays the golden egg by low wages/rewards, high taxes, debt and a
false economic system designed to feed the banksters at the expense of all enterprise. Bureaucracy and ideology likewise
prevail over free enterprise as in communism and debt causes
the development of monopolies which parallel the centralisation under socialism/communism. The cost of social services becomes too great because of inflation and debt so these shrink over time. Yet slowly but surely govts subsidise
private enterprise on the excuse that it is attracting investment
which is a substitute for borrowing more debt. But profits go out of the country and only the wages stay inside. One doesnt need a brain to work out that this is a policy of treading water not
getting ahead.
Politically the workers have a left party to fight the right representing business/employers and as we see in the end there is no difference. In communist countries it is less hypercritical-
just the one party representing the same monopoly of power
instead of two parties both representing the same monopoly of power.

So either way only an elite/minority get rewards for maintaining the status quo.

The situation in Poland is the same as when slavery was abolished in the US. Suddenly the free people had no work, no home, no nothing. The bankers actually looked forward to it
because it meant all those 'emansipated' people would have to
get low paid employment/bring wages down and borrow money.
Isnt that what the free market has done to the developed world?

Both systems are monopolised by the same people, both are based on theory that is contrary to natural law and reality. Both
sides have conrolled information which is to be expected. Both breed corruption because honesty is relative and to win by any means is success. The only checks and balances are for retaining
the status-quo.

The only way to diametrically change/oppose the dialectic materialism of the elite (animal farm) is to apply the principles of cooperatives in politicis and economics. Then the greatest resourse - the people- are free and can afford to enjoy their freedom. Capitalism cant dominate and create socialism , making society a disfunctional complex that usurps all power from the confused people.
"a poppulace that arent their own masters and havent been for a long period of time"

Slavs are united already Woj, in the dysfunctional complex of
confusion. The samne problems are now everywhere- globally-
thus the confudsion is compounded by the rheteric that only speaks of globally trying to address these problems. So slavs will line up like everyone else and try and join the western version of the soviet union. The biggest change is technology and who has the greatest influence on children.
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#3708 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:04 PM

> > Should I be able to sue the manufacturer of my hair dryer if I
> > stupidly use it in the tub? I'm sure it's been tried, because there's
> > a little warning label on the side of the dryer telling me not to do
> > just that. Should Ford Motor Company be liable if I use their product
> > to drive 100 mph and crash into a bridge?
> >
> > I get a little annoyed when people suggest that the public needs
> > governmental protection from what they eat. What would it logically
> > come to, if followed to its most ludicrous conclusion? Oat bran for
> > everyone? No beef allowed? Bacon being classified as a controlled
> > substance?
> >
> > Where is the concept of personal responsibility in all this?
> >
> > Mark, MD
>
>
> My doctor has never mentioned that i should eat fruit and vegetables
> or get exercise. My dentist has never said avoid simple sugars. When
> you see everyone
> eating at McDonalds from a young age and all the advertising it just
> seems normal to eat there. Every once in awhile you might hear about
> some vegetarian nut who got sick or something from lack of protein.
> the message that junk food is delicious and a source of happiness
> envelopes us. I certainly am going to sue my medical doctor for not at
> least giving me a few warnings about junk food. Christ, i have kidney
> stones now from this crap. Children are given candy as a reward. the
> stores are packed with candy.

I see, so you never saw the connection b/ the junk food INDUSTRY and
the healthcare INDUSTRY? The word INDUSTRY should have tipped you off.
I'm glad you now see the solution lies in the lawsuit INDUSTRY... ;)
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#3709 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:18 PM

<The dynamics of centralised planning (socialism) creates a
dictatorship of an elite/bureaucracy and enslaves people. The greatest resourse of any society/economy is the people. So ultimately the socialist/communist state becomes arthritic because it is for ever killing the goose which lays the golden egg.

Capitalism from the opposite direction bleeds the goose that lays the golden egg by low wages/rewards, high taxes, debt and a
false economic system designed to feed the banksters at the expense of all enterprise. Bureaucracy and ideology likewise
prevail over free enterprise as in communism and debt causes
the development of monopolies which parallel the centralisation under socialism/communism. The cost of social services becomes too great because of inflation and debt so these shrink over time. Yet slowly but surely govts subsidise
private enterprise on the excuse that it is attracting investment
which is a substitute for borrowing more debt. But profits go out of the country and only the wages stay inside. One doesnt need a brain to work out that this is a policy of treading water not
getting ahead.>

Howdy Bader
Great article and I'll try to use it around. Someone told me the other day that communism is the next step after capitalism in absolute control. But communists have noticed that because it's so obvious and unrewarded the people don't have motivation to work, and often they back away from state capitalism back into jungle capitalism where they still are the masters, and then give the people an election puppet-show every few years, and a lot of illusion, and voila, there you get the people in total confusion, asking, "Where is the FREEDOM I was promised?":confused:
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#3710 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:33 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
Woj, do you consider France banana republic too? > > I do not want the government
> > deciding what I am having for dinner... Want that? Move to France...



Insult of the France looks to me on the cannibal complaint on the vegetarian way of life.
Cannibal might has his environmental prerogatives ; more people indigested yet, created sewage and pollution problem especially if they drive SUV. :(
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#3711 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Bader
[B
The situation in Poland is the same as when slavery was abolished in the US. [/B]



Tell me yet , where in Poland Freedom is?:)
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#3712 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 12:46 PM

> > They get into your house and tell your child that they have a clown,
> > and toys, and colorful packaging, what do you expect your child to do,
> > ask you for home made soup?
>
> No, I expect YOU to have the brains God gave a newt, and say, "No,
> sweetie, Happy Meals are full of shit they wouldn't feed their own
> dogs. Here's something Mommy made with her own hands." Instead of
> saying, "Gosh, I have book club, and that outing with the Johnson's to
> go to, and my exercise time at the club...here, here's your Happy
> Meal...please be quiet and give Mommy's sedative time to take hold."
>
> If YOU feed your kids Happy Meals, it is YOUR responsibility to own up
> to being the reason you've been feeding unhealthy crap to your kids.
> YOU are in charge of what they eat. If YOU let YOUR kids browbeat you
> into feeding them crap, maybe YOU shouldn't have bred in the first
> place.
>
> Stop blaming somebody else for the stuff that YOU ultimately have the
> control over.
>
> Mark, MD

I think it would be even better to tell the kids that there's a hungry
hairy lion out there who uses a lot camouflage to prey on them by
enticing them into "happy" things (here you introduce "happy meals").
And then you add, "Now I got go to work for the lion, but I warn you
that television is used by the lion to turn little furry animals--like
us--into 'happy sheep'"...;)

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE

Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all the species of
the jungle, demanded JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching,
said, "You would have to have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the
Monkey, who was very clever, devised a plan: He would go to the
costume store, and look like a lion...

When the Lion saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a match for
him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --before the
indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And that's how
the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...
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#3713 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:08 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Insult of the France looks to me on the cannibal complaint on the vegetarian way of life.
Cannibal might has his environmental prerogatives ; more people indigested yet, created sewage and pollution problem especially if they drive SUV. :(



Good point. Cannibal says, "If I eat them is because they didn't want to be successful like me. Human flesh--and brains--were created by God for me. Hallelujah!";)
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#3714 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:09 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
[it's so obvious and unrewarded the people don't have motivation to work, and often they back away from state capitalism back into jungle capitalism where they still are the masters, and then give the people an election puppet-show every few years, and a lot of illusion, and voila, there you get the people in total confusion, asking, "Where is the FREEDOM I was promised?":confused: [/B]



....Hundreds of protesters sparred with police and burned tires just a stone's throw away from where) chief Rodrigo Rato was meeting on Tuesday with Argentine officials on his maiden visit to the financially crippled country. Across the street, Rato met with Economy Minister Roberto Lavagna to discuss Argentina's decision to drop out of its year-old $13 billion loan program with the International Monetary Fund The seven-hour visit is the first since Rato assumed the IMF helm in June and follows Argentina's decision to suspend the program and its economic reform requirements .
intercept. http://story.news.ya..._argentina_dc_1

Dumping IMF and letting the usury thieves to starve is necessity to get Freedom. Stalin was correct eliminating money speculation in CCCP. :)
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#3715 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:18 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Tell me yet , where in Poland Freedom is?:)



Well, I don't know. You are offcially free. Maybe you can own a newspaper, or a bank, or just be a successful actor like Conan the Barbarian (I don't know how to spell his name), or simply you are free to be homeless or starve to death. Hallelujah!;)

I heard this yesterday at the lions' convention: "What does it mean to be compassionate conservative?" "Well it means that now we have shown compassion for Iraq and they are now nice and democratic just like we are." I wonder though if they ever see the hordes of homeless people pullulating New York or any other American city.:confused:

Aren't you tempted, Woj?;)
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#3716 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 01:57 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
"Well it means that now we have shown compassion for Iraq and they are now nice and democratic just like we are." I wonder though if they ever see the hordes of homeless people pullulating New York or any other American city.:confused:

Aren't you tempted, Woj?;)



Donq, You missed the Freedom in the Fischer case...

Former World Chess Champion and Grand Master Boris Spasskii has written to U.S. President George W. Bush asking him to show mercy to fellow former World Chess Champion Bobby Fische.. Fischer, who was arrested in Japan on 13 July and who faces possible extradition to the United States, is wanted by Washington for allegedly violating economic sanctions against the regime of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. The U.S. authorities invalidated Fischer's passport in December in connection with his receipt of a $3 million prize for playing a chess match against Spasskii in Yugoslavia in 1992. Fischer captured the world chess championship by defeating Spasskii in Helsinki in 1972. "Otherwise, you should arrest me as well, put me in the same prison cell with Fischer, and just let us play chess," Spasskii wrote. VY http://www.rferl.org...4.asp:confused:
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#3717 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 04:40 PM

Vanity fair- or Working girl - movie with Melissa Gilbert is wiser than Bible , Koran , US Constitution or French Revolution.

It asks Fundamental question;

Why should one obey the law he would be never set up? :)
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#3718 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 05:42 PM

Blair was uninvited to Russia, Chechen Basajew got political asylum in Uk......
Isn
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#3719 donquijote

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 07:07 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Donq, You missed the Freedom in the Fischer case...

Former World Chess Champion and Grand Master Boris Spasskii has written to U.S. President George W. Bush asking him to show mercy to fellow former World Chess Champion Bobby Fische.. Fischer, who was arrested in Japan on 13 July and who faces possible extradition to the United States, is wanted by Washington for allegedly violating economic sanctions against the regime of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. The U.S. authorities invalidated Fischer's passport in December in connection with his receipt of a $3 million prize for playing a chess match against Spasskii in Yugoslavia in 1992. Fischer captured the world chess championship by defeating Spasskii in Helsinki in 1972. "Otherwise, you should arrest me as well, put me in the same prison cell with Fischer, and just let us play chess," Spasskii wrote. VY http://www.rferl.org...4.asp:confused:



Sorry to hear that. In chess King offers no mercy for opposing camp.:mad:

But we must be aware that the real chess game take place at the political level, where the King gets surrounded by the powerful Queen, the Rook, the Knight and the Bishop. Only hope is a general uprising by the Pawns...;)
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#3720 Bader

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Posted 01 September 2004 - 08:17 PM

Freedom is not being subject to laws one wouldnt create.
If we broaden out the word law to include any principle or
precursor that dictates what we can do for our own benefit then
as regards Poles, what have you got in your homeland that wasnt
established by Rome or the Jews?
You talk of nationalism. What does a Polish Pole represent?
Same for Russia, to be number one society, it has to rediscover what is Russian and what isnt after being put through a mincer and turned into identical faceless sausages decades ago.
Everyone is looking at material polution, what about spiritual and
philosophical polution because before a man can do anything he first thinks and the basis of thought controls society.
So if Poles want to be free, get rid of the polution, the SUV and fast foods are diversions.
Revolutions are based on simple slogans that deceive for the purposes of capturing the minds of the masses so they become emotional mobs not thinking people. They the centralised power turns them into "free" sausages. Free to do everything the law they wouldnt make says or be crushed.
Where is freedom in Poland?
The Blacks may have asked the same question of Lincoln when turned out onto the roads into freedom off the farms that gave them food shelter and work. They had to start from scratch and what they did outwardly would reflect what was inside.
They could have joined the Democrat party and just sat around
playing a banjo asking the same questions for decades.
Freedom doesnt come to anyone you have to make it against the odds. Its easier starting with others of the same mind, and cooperating...oops now we are talking coops. People in coops are re-inventing society because they come up against all the problems of human nature, of control, constitution, rights,
responsibilities, rewards, posterity etc. Some of these are already meaningless in todays world thats how far we have sunk.
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