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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#3761 donquijote

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 12:51 PM

<I rate Steven Pearlsteins account as on a par with the naive.
It amounts the same as Kerry's fained opposition. Like maginfying the daisy the Lion crouchs behind.>

Hi Bader
I just wanted to emphasize the word "HIERARCHY" myself. The lion stands for it along with the LIE, and the anarchists have known this all along.

<I agree with the argument that anachism and libertarianism are not the same.
Libertarianism is privilage and injustice, which represents the US
in relation to the rest of the world, thanks to the International Bankers not the Americans people.>

I'm sure Libertarians would argue they are well-meant, but even if they are a lion, HOW CAN A LION IN THE OPEN BE DANGEROUS? If we allow him to come into the open, and we provide shelter for the sheep, what's to fear? The REAL PROBLEM is what we got now: the lion in sheep's clothing...;)

<The Libertarians accept a miniscule govt, so others son, eg the sons of the families who are subject to the injustice to go to war in govt uniforms to defend the privileges of the Libertarians. >

They say they are against war, and oppose Iraq's war. You can tell the real ones from the fake by whether they oppose that war or any other foreign adventure.

< No more and no less. Thats a far cry from anachists.
The difference is in the fact that one will accept a form of govt, not
the characteristic regarding privilege and injustice. With even less or no govt (anachism) these factors would increase to the point of the law of the jungle which would then cause most anachists to suddenly see the need for govt to save them form extreme injustice. >

Maybe not. An EDUCATED POPULATION is unlikely to turn to violence, particularly if the law of the land is JUSTICE. The Swiss are perhaps more stable, not because they have a strong lion that defends them, but because they themselves are strong, rifle in hand or even truth in hand.

Afghanistan is the opposite because *their tribalism is much stronger than their education* and because there's *big bucks* to be made in the stupid drug war created by design. Work on those two and even Afghan lions can be tamed.

< The alternative is to form gangs and "territories"- tribalism. >

That's only if the sheep admit the shepherds to be the lions. If we say "no lion no problem," and implement some preventive measures, that's unlikely to ever happen.

But there should be a Golden Rule: No more government than necessary, no less than is needed...:cool:
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#3762 donquijote

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 06:15 PM

Schwarzenegger: Ringmaster or Clown?

Mr. Barbarian put out a good show at the Republican Convention, sure to help Bush in re-election (the polls give him a wide margin now), but is he ringmaster or clown?;)

http://engforum.prav...350#post1023350
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#3763 Bader

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 06:29 PM

Howdy DonQ:

Education/knowledge are crucial. Before a man acts he thinks but what conditions his thinking?
A certain type of people got control of the money which got control of the options people could take, given you cant do much without money.
Similarly once one had control of money it gained control of the main sources of public information- academia, media and politics.
In time it all becomes a puppet show, first nationally then globally
which is where we are today.
Switzerland is a good political model but the real protection could well be the international bankers who control the neighbouring countries. Even in Switzerland they are wittling away at its independance/nationalism to fit into the global dictatorship.
Materialism and the "modern" disposition, to keep up with the Jones which represents a mindless "now" meaning there is no past , no future, just a unmeasurable present tense as bureacratic madness turns everything into a sardine canned life.
People are powerless because the compasses of life which the nations once had have been thrown away by the planners and schemers who run the puppetshow.
The liberal left have done what the communists couldnt do in the west. All people have left is their physical possessions and the biggest is property and that why we have the libertarian movement. Its the last post/stand to hold onto their last possession, their land and building from mindless bureaucracy in the so called capitalist west. It will be pointless because they only believe in everyman for himself so their own philosophy cannot unit people to claw back what has been lost.
They are people who are fighting with a bag tied over their heads.
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#3764 donquijote

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Bader
Howdy DonQ:

Education/knowledge are crucial. Before a man acts he thinks but what conditions his thinking?
A certain type of people got control of the money which got control of the options people could take, given you cant do much without money.
Similarly once one had control of money it gained control of the main sources of public information- academia, media and politics.
In time it all becomes a puppet show, first nationally then globally
which is where we are today.
Switzerland is a good political model but the real protection could well be the international bankers who control the neighbouring countries. Even in Switzerland they are wittling away at its independance/nationalism to fit into the global dictatorship.
Materialism and the "modern" disposition, to keep up with the Jones which represents a mindless "now" meaning there is no past , no future, just a unmeasurable present tense as bureacratic madness turns everything into a sardine canned life.
People are powerless because the compasses of life which the nations once had have been thrown away by the planners and schemers who run the puppetshow.
The liberal left have done what the communists couldnt do in the west. All people have left is their physical possessions and the biggest is property and that why we have the libertarian movement. Its the last post/stand to hold onto their last possession, their land and building from mindless bureaucracy in the so called capitalist west. It will be pointless because they only believe in everyman for himself so their own philosophy cannot unit people to claw back what has been lost.
They are people who are fighting with a bag tied over their heads.



That's right, Bader. Education is the first one to go down the drain when it comes to the lions' priority: WAR AND EXOTIC PROJECTS. It makes economic sense to them, and besides the ignorant sheep are easier to manipulate.:(

But there's another Austrian, Edward Bernays--the "father of manipulation"--who also knew how to control the sheep with American money...;)

"it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing it"

These manipulators though have a few common characteristics--besides being Austrian...;)

"professional poisoners of the public mind, exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism and self-interest."

And sure these manupulators put Bernays's ideas to use in having Schwarzenegger be the ringmaster or clown of the show...;)

'One of Bernays's favorite techniques for manipulating public opinion was the indirect use of "third party authorities" to plead for his clients' causes.'

And the puppet show must go on...;)

"In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons ... who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

No other than the PUPPETEER!!!:D


Edward Bernays (November 22, 1891 - March 9, 1995) is regarded by many as the "father of public relations," although some people believe that title properly belongs to some other early PR practitioner, such as Ivy Lee.

Born in Vienna, Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud, the father of psychoanalysis, and his public relations efforts helped popularize Freud's theories in the United States. Bernays also pioneered the PR industry's use of psychology and other social sciences to design its public persuasion campaigns. "If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing it," Bernays argued. He called this scientific technique of opinion molding the "engineering of consent."

One of Bernays's favorite techniques for manipulating public opinion was the indirect use of "third party authorities" to plead for his clients' causes. "If you can influence the leaders, either with or without their conscious cooperation, you automatically influence the group which they sway," he said. In order to promote sales of bacon, for example, he conducted a survey of physicians and reported their recommendation that people eat hearty breakfasts. He sent the results of the survey to 5,000 physicians, along with publicity touting bacon and eggs as a hearty breakfast.

Bernays's clients included President Calvin Coolidge, Procter & Gamble, CBS, the American Tobacco Company, General Electric, Dodge Motors, and the fluoridationists of the Public Health Service. Beyond his contributions to these famous and powerful clients, Bernays revolutionized public relations by combining traditional press agentry with the techniques of psychology and sociology to create what one writer has called "the science of ballyhoo."

PR industry historian Scott Cutlip describes Bernays as "perhaps public relations' most fabulous and fascinating individual, a man who was bright, articulate to excess, and most of all, an innovative thinker and philosopher of this vocation that was in its infancy when he opened his office in New York in June 1919." Much of Bernays's reputation today stems from his persistent public relations campaign to build his own reputation as "America's No. 1 Publicist." During his active years, many of his peers in the industry were offended by Bernays's continuous self-promotion. According to Cutlip, "Bernays was a brilliant person who had a spectacular career, but, to use an old-fashioned word, he was a braggart."

"When a person would first meet Bernays," says Cutlip, "it would not be long until Uncle Sigmund would be brought into the conversation. His relationship with Freud was always in the forefront of his thinking and his counseling." According to Irwin Ross, another writer, "Bernays liked to think of himself as a kind of psychoanalyst to troubled corporations." In the early 1920s, Bernays arranged for the US publication of an English-language translation of Freud's General Introduction to Psychoanalysis. In addition to publicizing Freud's ideas, Bernays used his association with Freud to establish his own reputation as a thinker and theorist?a reputation that was further enhanced when Bernays authored several landmark texts of his own, most notably Crystallizing Public Opinion (1923, ISBN 0871409755), Propaganda (1928, ISBN 080461511X) and "The Engineering of Consent" in Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science (March 1947).

Bernays defined the profession of "counsel on public relations" as a "practicing social scientist- whose "competence is like that of the industrial engineer, the management engineer, or the investment counselor in their respective fields." To assist clients, PR counselors used "understanding of the behavioral sciences and applying them--sociology, social psychology, anthropology, history, etc." In Propaganda, his most important book, Bernays argued that the scientific manipulation of public opinion was necessary to overcome chaos and conflict in society:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ... In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons ... who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.

Bernays's celebration of propaganda helped define public relations, but it didn't win the industry many friends. In a letter to President Franklin Roosevelt, Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter described Bernays and Ivy Lee as "professional poisoners of the public mind, exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism and self-interest." And history itself showed the flaw in Bernays's claim that "manipulation of the masses" is natural and necessary in a democratic society. The fascist rise to power in Germany demonstrated that propaganda could be used to subvert democracy as easily as it could be used to "resolve conflict."

In his autobiography, titled Biography of an Idea, Bernays recalls a dinner at his home in 1933 where

Karl von Weigand, foreign correspondent of the Hearst newspapers, an old hand at interpreting Europe and just returned from Germany, was telling us about Goebbels and his propaganda plans to consolidate Nazi power. Goebbels had shown Weigand his propaganda library, the best Weigand had ever seen. Goebbels, said Weigand, was using my book Crystallizing Public Opinion as a basis for his destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me. ... Obviously the attack on the Jews of Germany was no emotional outburst of the Nazis, but a deliberate, planned campaign.

[Not a bad use for his propaganda: Nazi propaganda.]:confused:

Bernays is held in high regard (by some; thoroughly despised by others) even today, and was even named as one of the 1000 most influential people of all time.

[I'm sure Bush and Schwarzenegger love him!];)

http://en.wikipedia..../Edward_Bernays
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#3765 Pliny

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 10:38 PM

Thanks again for the interesting reading .

I liked the post about Bernays and the one on Libertarianism and Anarchy.

Funny though, I didn't notice that paper bag you mentioned, Bader! :)
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#3766 donquijote

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Posted 05 September 2004 - 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Pliny
Thanks again for the interesting reading .

I liked the post about Bernays and the one on Libertarianism and Anarchy.

Funny though, I didn't notice that paper bag you mentioned, Bader! :)



Howdy Pliny
Welcome back, though you always come back.;)

You are aware of this, right?

http://engforum.prav...?threadid=91932
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#3767 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 01:44 AM

Originally posted by donquijote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did we all care about the Chechen war before this tragedy?

http://news.bbc.co.u...int/3624494.stm



Dear countrymen,
I would like to say the following:
Firstly.
A set of measures aimed at strengthening the country"s unity will be prepared soon.

Secondly.
It is necessary to establish a new system of regulating forces and means at North Caucasus.

Thirdly.

It is necessary to create an effective anti-crisis governing system, including absolutely new approaches in the work of the law-enforcement.
Let me also emphasize that all these measures will take effect in accordance with the Russian Constitution.
We have been and we will always remain stronger than the enemy in terms of our morals, our courage and our humane solidarity. I have once again witnessed it last night.
Today we ought to be together. This is the only way we will be able to defeat the enemy. Russian President's address to the Nation http://english.pravd...4054_Putin.html


I also can add that a set of measures aimed at strengthening the Slavs
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#3768 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 01:48 AM

<I also can add that a set of measures aimed at strengthening the Slavs -s unity should be prepared soon so would be never attack on Yugoslavia or any Slav country. Yugoslavia it was starting point of war against Slavs. . Today we all Slavs ought to be together. This is the only way we will be able to defeat the enemy.:)>

Just don't forget who the enemy is: He roars and got paws and teeths. He's also a master of camouflage and it's known to hang out with other predators. Guess...;)
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#3769 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 02:02 AM

"Brazil's modern slaves are cogs in the global economy."

And nobody talks about them, probably because slavery is very profitable. Landowners get away with it, and the importers of their products "ignore" everything. Out of sight out of mind. Hardcore competition must go on...crushing people if need be. The economic version of the Law of the Jungle.

I'm surprised there's no more violence in this world.:confused:

U.S. firms reap fruits of Brazil slave labor

From corned beef to wooden flooring, cheap U.S. goods made from Brazilian raw materials often come from enslaved workers near the Amazon.

BY KEVIN G. HALL

Knight Ridder Newspapers

MARABA, Brazil - Jose Silva came to the Macauba Ranch in Brazil's eastern Amazon hoping to earn a few hundred dollars clearing jungle.

Two years later, he was $800 in debt and terrified that if he tried to leave the ranch, Gilmar the field boss would pull out his .38-caliber revolver and kill him.

"I would cry alone at night in my hammock and ask God to help me escape. I felt like a slave," he told Knight Ridder.

Silva was a modern slave, working with 46 other men and a boy to clear jungle with machetes, chain saws and tractors from sunup to sundown in the tropical heat, seven days a week, for no money.

He and the others got one meal a day of rice, beans and a little chicken or beef, which they were made to eat standing up to discourage resting. There were no toilets or latrines at the workers' camp, only bushes.

Rat feces flecked the sacks of rice in the camp's storehouse. Flies covered raw meat hung on clotheslines in the tropical heat. Workers got no medical attention, even though one of them shivered with malaria, a disease spread by the Amazon's ubiquitous mosquitoes.

Brazil abolished slavery in 1888. Earlier this year, however, the government acknowledged to the United Nations that at least 25,000 Brazilians work under "conditions analogous to slavery." The top anti-slavery official in Brasilia, the capital, puts the number of modern slaves at 50,000.

The fruits of Brazil's slave labor end up in the United States in the form of imported hardwoods, pig iron and processed meats. Other products, such as soybeans produced on farms cleared by enslaved workers, compete with U.S. products in world markets.

"Silva" isn't the ranch worker's real name. When a Knight Ridder reporter encountered him, he was an informant leading Brazilian labor department investigators, accompanied by heavily armed federal police, back to the Macauba Ranch. He may be called as a witness in court cases, and labor officials insisted that he not be identified for fear of reprisal.

While landowners don't own Brazil's modern slaves, the workers toil at gunpoint and the threat of violence, hidden by the vast Amazon jungle and, in many cases, beyond the reach of the law.

Most are unschooled men from Brazil's northern states, where their families live in tiny dirt-floored homes without running water. Their infants squabble with cats and dogs and pigs over food.

Recruiters who promise land-clearing jobs that pay $3 to $4 a day find it easy to lure these men hundreds of miles southeast to clear land at the edge of the Amazon jungle.

"Our situation obligates us to travel," said Jose Egito dos Santos, 43, a father of four once lured into slavery. He's a subsistence farmer in the northern state of Piaui, where he considers himself lucky to make $20 a month.

Slavery persists in Brazil -- alone among South American countries -- for a simple reason and a complicated one. The simple reason is that slaves are out of sight and out of mind: Brazilians in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo, who dominate the national political culture, are no more likely to worry about rural slaves in the Amazon than New Yorkers are to worry about illegal immigrants in the Rio Grande Valley.

The eastern Amazon region, where most Brazilian slavery occurs, is remote, and its ranchers feel few restraints in how they treat their workers.

"Landowners believe it is the most normal thing in the world to deny someone their liberty and even their life," said Marinalva Cardoso, leader of a government anti-slavery team.

By law, enslaving a worker can bring a landowner two to eight years in prison in addition to fines. However, the fines are so low -- less than $110 per offense -- that they're at worst a small cost of doing business. And no one has ever been imprisoned for it.

The complicated reason is that Brazil's modern slaves are cogs in the global economy. Their labor makes Brazil's exports of beef, soybeans, timber and pig iron cheaper -- often much cheaper -- than competing U.S. products.

On the Macauba Ranch, where Silva worked, some slaves cleared jungle with machetes to make tropical hardwoods accessible to loggers, pastureland for cattle and farmland for soybeans. They also did the logging and manned clay ovens that turned wood from the cleared land into charcoal that's used to make pig iron.

Brazil is the leading exporter of cooked and processed meats to the United States. Beef from cattle raised on land cleared by slave labor can end up in products such as Con Agra's Mary Kitchen corned beef.

Typically, commodities produced with slave labor in Brazil get mixed in with commodities produced by its legal workers. By the time they reach the United States, it's almost impossible to determine whether a shipment is contaminated. U.S. companies, do, however, import products from areas of Brazil where slavery is widespread.

Brazilian tropical hardwoods such as cumaru, ipe and jatoba, some of it harvested or made accessible to loggers by enslaved workers, are widely sold as exotic flooring and decking. In U.S. stores such as Home Depot's Expo Design Centers, such woods are sold under names such as Brazilian cherry, Brazilian teak and Brazilian walnut.

Cleared wood that has no commercial value ends up in charcoal ovens, which are often tended by slaves or by what Brazil terms "degrading" labor: workers considered slightly less abused because they're not held against their will. Degraded workers in the Amazon number in the hundreds of thousands or more. No one in official Brazil has a precise number for them or for slaves.

Blast furnaces in the eastern Amazon combine the charcoal that they produce with rich local iron ore to make pig iron, which is to finished iron and steel products what baking chocolate is to chocolate cake and fudge.

U.S. companies imported virtually all the 2.2 million tons of pig iron that northern Brazil produced last year. One of the biggest buyers was Nucor Corp. of Charlotte, N.C., America's leading steel-maker, whose products end up in everything from cars to steel beams.

Executives of U.S. companies contacted by Knight Ridder said they considered links between Brazilian slavery and their products to be insignificant.

Nucor buys pig iron from Ferro Gusa do Maranhao (Fergumar), a Brazilian pig-iron maker that labor inspectors determined was buying charcoal from a ranch that used slave labor.

"We're not familiar with it, not involved with it. It's something for the Brazilian government to handle... . Nucor doesn't have the ability to influence the issue," said Dan DiMicco, Nucor's president and chief executive officer.

Kay Carpenter, a spokeswoman for ConAgra Foods in Omaha, Neb., which buys cooked beef from Brazil and sells it under the Mary Kitchen label, said her company was "several steps removed" from cattle ranches that are operating on land cleared by slaves a few years ago.

At Cargill Inc. world headquarters in Minneapolis, spokeswoman Lori Johnson said the agribusiness giant had limited leverage over Brazilian soybean farmers. "I think it is unfair of folks to point at Cargill and say Cargill is solely responsible for actions other people take," she said.

American companies may see no evil, but the working conditions on some Brazilian farms and ranches may be even worse than those endured by the 3.6 million African slaves on whom Brazil depended for four centuries, said Marcelo Campos, who heads anti-slavery programs at Brazil's Ministry of Labor.

"Legal slaves were property, and watched over because they were an asset," he said. "They had food and shelter because the owner needed to make sure they stayed alive. Today's slave is not a concern (to the landowner). He uses them as an absolutely temporary item, like a disposable razor."
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#3770 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 02:51 AM

Originally posted by Bader

Education/knowledge are crucial. Before a man acts he thinks but what conditions his thinking?
A certain type of people got control of the money which got control of the options people could take, given you cant do much without money.
Similarly once one had control of money it gained control of the main sources of public information- academia, media and politics.
In time it all becomes a puppet show, first nationally then globally
which is where we are today.
They are people who are fighting with a bag tied over their heads.


I have cheerful post;; Hurricanes Bring Environmental Renewal "What we see is the damage it does to our structures, but it can actually renew areas
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#3771 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 04:01 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
[B]I have cheerful post;; Hurricanes Bring Environmental Renewal "What we see is the damage it does to our structures, but it can actually renew areas
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#3772 Bader

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 07:45 AM

I remember that Austrian DonQ, you have posted that before,
its good background information.
Reminds me of the imfamous Protocols.
Rather ironic indeed the Goebels used it against those who are so well endoured with the same mind, but so sad about the collateral damage condoned by both parties. There are a number or parallels between the two which have been quite successfully been smurged under the blanket projections of a version of the second world war etc. Which again demonstrate the clever skills of manipulating what people think/perceive.
Well we never did like the LI-ON did we. So likewise his slaves.
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#3773 Bader

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 08:39 AM

Tell me Woj, what is nature counter-balancing in the US at the moment.

Howdy Pliny:

Well you said it not me, you cant see the bag. More seriously there are exceptions so you and others are not included and on the other hand to get less serious(humour), perhaps you have cuts some eye holes.
The Brazilian report magnifies the freemarket philosophy of the Libertarians and other right winges to use common terms.
ON the one hand it is a classic environment of each one looking after their own interests and no govt/law intervention. But the abuse of privileged position over others demands govt to keep the peices.
A fair and equitable system which you and I know why doesnt exist would mean less need for govt and a level playing field for
people to look after themselves more than possible now.
The pathetic disposition I see with many Libertarians is that they
after a couple of generations of the benefits of the social capitalist state and many getting rich through inflation of property values etc now want to cast off the majority who are slowly getting further behind because of the free market policies. They enjoy the inbalanced rewards while the inbalance puts numerical voting advantage at election time which they dont like. They are so blind to one being the photo-negative of the other- as Woj says natural self balancing, and so certain ones want their cake and eat it too.
I suspect that higher education would be in the majority of those who are libertarians, and dont realize they are in need of a good re-education of which you yourself are aware of. They dont address the real problem, just the problem that they have in their shortsighted view.
The greater part of the patheticness is that the power behind what they believe in (free market) is very likely going to end up taking their property off them in the end- swallowed up by their own Lion. The lord Lion gives and he taketh away again.
Debt has stripped out state assets, and debt still grows like a dynasaurs appetite in a vege garden. Private property will have to come next. Its all collateral to local govt debt which has been blooming in recent times, while central govt has slowed down.
Private property is one of the important things to go in any dictatorship as this destroys independance.
In fact they have even planned where humans can live and not live in the future. Someone has taken the time to check all the
areas of natural disasters in the US in recent times and they are all happening in the zones that are to made free of humans, so it looks like they have already started the clearing out.

By the way I have found an interesting bit of information about the gold standard just prior to its demise. I'll put it on soon so keep an eye out.
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#3774 Bader

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 09:24 AM

One of the delusions that are often fallen into is the option of creating a lion to combat the first lion.
This is the stuff upon which the dialectic materialism is based on.
A classic example is the Palestinians adopting the same type as the Israelis helping them to sustain the fundamental powerbase
and attracts billions of dollars of aid annually.
Here's a lesson is pychological manipulation.

Hey DonQ, the reason no one talks about Brazilian slaves is because they (preditors) arent anglo-saxons.

Putin has warned of the changes that are necessary to meet the
challenges of terrorism, but he said they would be all subject to the Constitution. While they are the words of a politician, they were all the right words which identified the greater strengths that protects peoples, not the use of war and state terrorism that Bush has used to try and address it.
Bush hasnt and cant say that he will remain under the constitution because his bosses intend to change it.
Was Putin making/scoring a global point here?
This might be another one to chalk up regarding number one
between the two.
I would suggest too that the things Putin referred to that united and may society strong and less likely and able to become divided against itself are things the NWO dont want to happen anywhere, its contrary to globalism.
Some political pundits will make some reference to this sort of thing being something which will provide a lot of political support for a encumbant govt/leader, but it could actually provide some extra means of re-creating a renewed national culture to replace the old ideological fabrication. It would be sad if they merely just built up a (new) frankenstein as they are in the US.
It appears Woj that a similar situation exists in many areas of Russia which like in Jugoslavia, the communist system held the diversity (fragmented ethnicity/culture) together because it was a
regid dictatorship but now it is gone the potential for division
and anarchy to be exploited from abroad, as in Jugoslavia, is quite high.
Good leadership isnt possible in the US. Is it possible in Russia?
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#3775 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Bader
I remember that Austrian DonQ, you have posted that before,
its good background information.
Reminds me of the imfamous Protocols.
Rather ironic indeed the Goebels used it against those who are so well endoured with the same mind, but so sad about the collateral damage condoned by both parties. There are a number or parallels between the two which have been quite successfully been smurged under the blanket projections of a version of the second world war etc. Which again demonstrate the clever skills of manipulating what people think/perceive.
Well we never did like the LI-ON did we. So likewise his slaves.



Howdy Bader
Well, I don't remember having posted that...:confused:

But anyway, I think the puppeteer has been more ambitious of late. The strings show. The people see him behind the curtains--but not in America, where the show goes on in all its splendour.:(
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#3776 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:30 AM

<Well you said it not me, you cant see the bag. More seriously there are exceptions so you and others are not included and on the other hand to get less serious(humour), perhaps you have cuts some eye holes.>

Either that, or they have a transparent bags over their head.;)

<The Brazilian report magnifies the freemarket philosophy of the Libertarians and other right winges to use common terms.
ON the one hand it is a classic environment of each one looking after their own interests and no govt/law intervention. But the abuse of privileged position over others demands govt to keep the peices.>

The "fair and friendly lion" the Libertarians promise scares many people, but it should be said that not regulation but COMPETITION may tame him. After all, the little animals won't be *forced* to work for him if they have their own water well, so he will have to entice them with a larger chunk of the scraps or simply become the straw-eating lion pictured in Paradise.;)

And if he doesn't accept competition, then the little animals would know him for what he is: Satan the Lion. Fair?
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#3777 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:48 AM

<Hey DonQ, the reason no one talks about Brazilian slaves is because they (preditors) arent anglo-saxons.>

True, but the title did reflect that their corporations profit from it...

"U.S. firms reap fruits of Brazil slave labor"

Anyway, a little article here or there is not going to change things, and it does sell the paper.;)

The cogs of capitalism will continue crushing people in its many manifestations: SLAVERY, PROSTITUTION, PORNOGRAPHY, DRUGS TRADE, WAR, ARMS TRADE, POUCHING, CHEAP LABOR, ORGANS TRADE, CHILDREN TRADE, IMMIGRATION, CRIME, POLLUTION, CORRUPTION, JUNK FOOD, JUNK CULTURE...
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#3778 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:55 AM

Hey Bader, we can do a simple search for Bernays and see whoever wrote about him before. He was a famous manipulator alright...;)

http://engforum.prav...rder=descending

For example...

In this world of mutant "news," information loops have become one-way highways; and a national security advisor, cabinet secretary, or attorney general, a well-managed and programmed polemicist charged to "stay on message," the better to justify whatever the government has already done, or is about to do. Because these latter-day campaigns to "dominate the media environment," as the Pentagon likes to say, employ all the sophistication and technology developed by communications experts since Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, first wed an understanding of psychology to the marketing of merchandise, they are far more seductive than older-style news. Indeed, on Fox News, we can see the ultimate marriage of news and PR in a fountainhead of artful propaganda so well-packaged that most people can't tell it from the real thing.

For three-plus years we have been governed by people who don't view news, in the traditional sense, as playing any constructive role in our system of governance. At the moment, they are momentarily in retreat, driven back from the front lines of faith-based truth by their own faith-based blunders. But make no mistake, their frightening experiment will continue if Americans allow it. Complete success would mean not just that the press had surrendered its essential watchdog role, but -- a far darker thought -- that, even were it to refuse to do so, it might be shunted off to a place where it would not matter.

As the war in Iraq descended into a desert quagmire, the press belatedly appeared to awaken and adopt a more skeptical stance toward an already crumbling set of Bush administration policies. But if a bloody, expensive, catastrophic episode like the war in Iraq is necessary to remind us of the important role that the press plays in our democracy, something is gravely amiss in the way our political system has come to function.
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#3779 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Bader
Tell me Woj, what is nature counter-balancing in the US at the moment.



Dinosaurs died not by social-economical causes but cosmic reasons. Was it the hit of asteroid or lack of magnetic protection related to changing of magnetic poles and temporary lack of magnetic protection from cosmic radiation.
Earth still has liquid iron inside and movement of it is ultimate as following after that the new moment of "O "value of magnetic field.

Second theory is not so catastrophic. It covers only huge earthquake of Japan , which will lead to monstrous fire. It will crash money system not only of Nikkei but everywhere else, well. Would be not possible to create even paper balance if Japan market will cease to exist. 7 trillion of American debt can not be extended with borrowing from nothingness.

Probability of life on earth is smaller than against it.
So even statistic is rather for nature counter-balancing in the world and US at the moment.
Life on earth is only incident, and as it, is only cosmic episode not eternal event. :)
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#3780 USSR

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 12:53 PM

MAKE UR OWN CONTRIBUTION TO THE STRUGGLE AGAINST TERRORISM!READ AT HTTP://WWW.RUSSIANREDCROSS.NAROD.RU THE ACCOUNT NUMBER FOR THE KIDS WOUNDED IN THE SCHOOL TRADEGY IN BESLAN.
SEND UR MONEY&GOD WILL SEE YOUR RIGHTUOSENESS.
LET IT BE EVEN $1!
DON`T LET THE KIDS DIE WITHOUT THAT MONEY!
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