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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#3781 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Bader
One of the delusions that are often fallen into is the option of creating a lion to combat the first lion.
...but it could actually provide some extra means of re-creating a renewed national culture to replace the old ideological fabrication. It would be sad if they merely just built up a (new) frankenstein as they are in the US.
It appears Woj that a similar situation exists in many areas of Russia which like in Jugoslavia, the communist system held the diversity (fragmented ethnicity/culture) together because it was a
regid dictatorship but now it is gone the potential for division
and anarchy to be exploited from abroad, as in Jugoslavia, is quite high.
Good leadership isnt possible in the US. Is it possible in Russia?



Lions are good family men and pandas are mostly the bad mothers. I prefer for Slav to be lead by lion hated by AngloSaxons , than by cheetah on Slavs beef, and adored by AngloSaxons. Good leadership for Russia snt necessary good for the US, and Russia can live with it.. :)
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#3782 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 02:04 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Dinosaurs died not by social-economical causes but cosmic reasons. Was it the hit of asteroid or lack of magnetic protection related to changing of magnetic poles and temporary lack of magnetic protection from cosmic radiation.
Earth still has liquid iron inside and movement of it is ultimate as following after that the new moment of "O "value of magnetic field.

Second theory is not so catastrophic. It covers only huge earthquake of Japan , which will lead to monstrous fire. It will crash money system not only of Nikkei but everywhere else, well. Would be not possible to create even paper balance if Japan market will cease to exist. 7 trillion of American debt can not be extended with borrowing from nothingness.

Probability of life on earth is smaller than against it.
So even statistic is rather for nature counter-balancing in the world and US at the moment.
Life on earth is only incident, and as it, is only cosmic episode not eternal event. :)



Another possibility is a catastrophic hurricane: HURRICANE BUSH!;) His return will ensure that America is more hated than ever, thus inviting catastrophe.

My piece of advice: Those who hate America, VOTE FOR BUSH!!!:confused:
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#3783 donquijote

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 02:14 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Lions are good family men and pandas are mostly the bad mothers. I prefer for Slav to be lead by lion hated by AngloSaxons , than by cheetah on Slavs beef, and adored by AngloSaxons. Good leadership for Russia snt necessary good for the US, and Russia can live with it.. :)



I know you grew used to it after 70 years, but he's no good and he ends up serving the interests of the Big Lion.;)

You know, lions look after each other, just like little animals do...
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#3784 Bader

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 08:17 PM

Its the puppeteer not the puppet.
Corporations are puppets like govts.
Shareholders can be anywhere in the world.
The international banksters are the puppeteers of the commercial-
industrial-trade world and govts. They arent a anglo-saxon
monopoly.
Corporations are a foodchain factor and we are all in some way
included in the foodchain system and benefiting in some way from the crimes against humanity.
We can avoid the obvious, protest, try and wake the sleeping, but we cant escape this life under the Li-on. Hard enough for families trying to avoid the poisen of the cogs of capitalism as you have listed, the kulture of roting humanity down to more base
creatures.

Excellent segment about the media- a blind watchdog, better late than never. The media does hedge its bets though, so if it really turns embarasing they can step onto the other foot, just like politicians, straight-faced, without flinching and carry on like they didnt back the rats in the first place. They call it runing with the hares and hounds.
But if a major outlet in the US for example turned over a new leaf
the public probably wouldnt back them, the majority wouldnt be able to take the change. This election demonstrates this. They may be capable of a slight change to Kerry. The rot has gone down too far now.

Dynasaurs: I go along with the shifting of the magnetic poles
because there is evidence that the earth turned over. PLus the theory of the waterbelt above the earth that made it like a hothouse for the prolific plant growth for the prehistoric animals.
When the water belt broke (astroid?) the tempterature suddenly dropped and started the "ice age" only it was in a very short time
because Mannoths have been found dead with food in their mouths in Russia which indicates virtually sudden death.
The waterbelt provided the great flood which is recorded on every continents ancient people.
The problem with evolution and uniformitarianism is that they ban anything that suggest any major change can happen in a short time which is why they have to build theories only based on very long periods of time. They painted themselves into a corner because there is evidence all over the place that refutes it.
The time period in which they lived was prior to modern society really getting out into the world and digging things up etc.
Bit like Joseph Smith of the Mormons who claimed the Nth American Indians were Jews. He wasnt to know one day DNA would make him look a fool and a false prophet.
Truth will have the last say. The Li-on will get his last day.
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#3785 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Bader
The time period in which they lived was prior to modern society really getting out into the world and digging things up etc.
Bit like Joseph Smith of the Mormons who claimed the Nth American Indians were Jews. He wasnt to know one day DNA would make him look a fool and a false prophet.
Truth will have the last say. The Li-on will get his last day.


Mr. Joseph Smith from Mormons genetic mistake is no bigger than all Christians mistake who believe that Orthodox Jew is their God.
Unfortunately, psychological condition is more difficult to treat that physical one.
Creationists with their soul theory are more pitiful than Darwinists.
To have soul and not to use it is more dreadful than monkeys ancestor. :)
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#3786 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:40 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
I know you grew used to it after 70 years, but he's no good and he ends up serving the interests of the Big Lion.;)

You know, lions look after each other, just like little animals do...



I believe that Putin serves only six years and he fight big lions;

Khodorowski is in prison ,
Reformers with Niemcov out of Duma,
Berezowski in asylum in UK.
Cleaning in Russia is going full speed.

Criminal Jeltsin had good Western press thought he ordered the killing for members of Duma who refused to go along with him his criminal path.

But Western spitting is act of the nobility for Putin. Best curse for Putin could be the only positive Western press. :)
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#3787 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 12:38 AM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
I believe that Putin serves only six years and he fight big lions;

Khodorowski is in prison ,
Reformers with Niemcov out of Duma,
Berezowski in asylum in UK.
Cleaning in Russia is going full speed.

Criminal Jeltsin had good Western press thought he ordered the killing for members of Duma who refused to go along with him his criminal path.

But Western spitting is act of the nobility for Putin. Best curse for Putin could be the only positive Western press. :)



They are also taking away benefits from the elderly and the veterans to give them so cash...

Are they lions too?:confused:

Russia must adopt something like what we propose here. Please forward to Putin...;)
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#3788 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 12:39 AM

Originally posted by donquijote
Another possibility is a catastrophic hurricane: HURRICANE BUSH!;) His return will ensure that America is more hated than ever, thus inviting catastrophe.

My piece of advice: Those who hate America, VOTE FOR BUSH!!!:confused:



Kerry is guilty by association. All architects of attack on Yugoslavia support Kerry as a president. Liberman , Soros, Clinton etc.
Slavs have to prove that these who brought bombs on Slavs country have political career finished.
Matter of Slavs principles.
Nothing can Kerry helps. He is already past time . Next candidate should think twice.

Polish Cossack emigrant Paniowski makes big interest in Belgium and around with his theatrical presentation about homosexual love in concentration camp. :)
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#3789 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 12:44 AM

"complexities of human need - health care, housing, food, education, etc. -are not adequately addressed by the market system."

I'm sure we can do better. Needless to say, we can produce better food, particularly banana...;)

Notice Kropotkin...:cool:

"Only the efforts of thousands of intelligences working on problems can cooperate in the developement of the new social system and find solutions for the thousands of local needs."

Is Anarchism Suitable For Complex Societies
by Brian Oliver Shepphard

December 08, 2002

The charge has often been made that the anarchist economic
model is ill suited for complex societies. The multi-faceted
nature of advanced industrial economies; their scope of
operation and breadth of distribution; the extensive
refinement in their division of labor - all these and more
are held up as examples of the labyrinth of problems that
nothing as "simplistic" as anarchism could ever hope to
address. Anarchism, according to many modern critics, could
only hope to work in limited, small-scale economies. And
even then, only possibly.

The primitivist sect of the American anarchist movement
actually seems to agree with this, and advocates destroying
what they call the "industrial mega-machine," thereby
returning to small, localized, autonomous villages. This is
completely at odds with what the anarchist movement has
fought for traditionally.

American anarchist Sam Dolgoff stated that, far from being
ill suited for anarchism, "complex societies necessitate"
it. In "The Relevance of Anarchism to Modern Society," he
delved into the subject by reaffirming that "the classical
anarchists always rejected the kind of 'simplicity' which
camouflages regimentation in favor of the natural complexity
which reflects the many faceted richness and diversity of
social and individual life."

Interestingly, in the introduction to Daniel Guerin's
Anarchism, Noam Chomsky states: "[S]kepticism is in order
when we hear that 'human nature' or 'the demands of
efficiency' or 'the complexity of modern life' require this
or that form of oppression or autocratic rule."

Gabriel Jackson, award-winning historian and author of The
Spanish Revolution and the Civil War, posits that the
anarchists ruined Spain in 1936, allowing fascism to triumph
in that country in the late 1930's. This was because the
anarchist model could not survive in a complex economy, he
says.

To wit: "[T]he revolutionary tide began to ebb in Catalonia
[after] accumulating food and supply problems, and the
experience of administering villages, frontier posts, and
public utilities, had rapidly shown the anarchists the
unsuspected complexity of modern society."

Complexity comes to the fore and foils the anarchists, it
seems, allowing Franco to sweep into power.

But Noam Chomsky, in his essay "Objectivity and Liberal
Scholarship" (one of his most anarchist writings), writes,
"In fact, 'the revolutionary tide began to ebb in Catalonia'
under the middle-class attack led by the Communist party,
not because of a recognition of the 'complexity of modern
society.'" Furthermore, "Whereas Jackson attributes the
ebbing of the revolutionary tide to the discovery of the
unsuspected complexity of modern society, Orwell's firsthand
observations [in Homage to Catalonia], like those of
Borkenau, suggest a far simpler explanation [namely,
Communist suppression]." Chomsky continues, "The
complexities of modern society that baffled and confounded
the unsuspecting anarchist workers of Barcelona" seem not to
exist; in fact, "[t]he available records do not indicate
that the problems of administering villages or public
utilities were either 'unsuspected' or too complex for the
Catalonian workers - a remarkable and unsuspected
development."

Indeed, Augustin Souchy, who, like Orwell, was eye witness
to the collectivization process, wrote that "The
collectivisation of the textile industry shatters once and
for all the legend that the workers are incapable of
administrating a great and complex corporation." This
observation was recorded in The Anarchist Collectives,
edited by Sam Dolgoff. Note that Souchy refers to
collectivization in the textile industry, which was an
advanced manufacturing industry, and not a rural or
small-scale operation. This answers the claim that anarchist
administration can be successful only in small-scale
industry or non-industrial operations.

In his "The Relevance of Anarchism to Modern Society,"
Dolgoff elaborates the point further by citing Kropoktin's
observation of English and Scottish workers:

"[P]roduction and exchange represented an undertaking so
complicated that no government (without establishing a
cumbersome, inefficient, bureaucratic dictatorship) would be
able to organize production if the workers themselves,
through their unions, did not do it in each branch of
industry; for, in all production there arises daily
thousands of difficulties that...no government can hope to
foresee.... Only the efforts of thousands of intelligences
working on problems can cooperate in the developement of the
new social system and find solutions for the thousands of
local needs."

Federalism, the coordination of voluntary bodies of
producers over vast regional or even global spaces, was a
principal aim of struggle for the Spanish workers as well as
other activists in other countries.

A counter-question, however, is this: Is the current free
market system suitable for the complexities of modern
society?

In fact, the market system has itself created much of the
"complexity" of modern society. For example, 30 different
types of SUVs, many with parts particular to each one, made
by differing plants, each requiring their own skilled
production and repair, adds a great deal to the complexity
of life. Do the benefits of this kind of "complexity"
outweigh the harm it causes? By contrast, complexities of
human need - health care, housing, food, education, etc. -
are not adequately addressed by the market system. In this
sense, the state-subsidized market system of our era is
extremely ill suited to the complexity of not just modern
society, but of human beings.

--
Dan Clore
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#3790 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 01:52 AM

http://engforum.prav...838#post1025838
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#3791 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 03:13 AM

As I said earlier, I'm sure we can produce a better banana.;) But how do the market operates?

The patterns of inter-related issues that would affect forest destruction could be seen in many different reasons, such as banana production, citrus and other fruits, rubber tree plantations, and other commodities. Yet, these were "similar politically if quite distinct biologically", and would typically include the following stages:

1. "Visionary capitalists identify an economic opportunity for the market expansion of an agricultural product"
2. "They purchase (or steal, or bribe into a government concession) some land, including land that may contain rain forest, which is promptly cut down."
3. "They import workers to produce products"
4. "After a period of boom the product goes bust on the world market" which leads to cut backs, layoffs, etc.
5. Those laid off must seek other means to survive, and in poor countries and rural areas that may mean growing subsistence crops on marginal lands
6. "The only place the now unemployed workers can find land no one will kick them off of is in the forest, which means yet more forest is converted to agriculture"

(snip)

Underlying all this though, is how both the resources in Central American and the Caribbean have been largely diverted away from local needs, to exporting a few commodities in order to meet wealthier consumption "needs".

The banana example, therefore, touches many different issues, including labor exploitation (as Chiquita, one of the main corporations involved have been even accused of killing workers), environmental degradation, poverty, economic issues, development and so on.

http://www.globaliss...ion/Bananas.asp
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#3792 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 04:10 AM

I'm sure you are going to like this, Bader...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katje
Humans should control it, not the other way around...

Wall Street (that champion of market solutions) has pushed the market's inadequacies so far out to the periphery (the Third World) that it forgets that it has inadequacies at all (rapid speculation-fueled growth leading to a cycle of overproductivity and recession, the toll of which is maximized at the periphery)...

Now that the Third World is growing increasingly politically and economically independent (the debt-ridden US can only put out so many brush-fires at once...), it looks like the market's failures will eventually be parked right on the banker's doorstep...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It's humans who control it... Regrettably only a small percentage of them do...;)

Another problem with the market is the distortion of "priorities," which make cosmetics more important than education...:(

Global priorities in spending in 1998.
Source: Consumerism, Volunteer Now! (undated) Global Priority $U.S. Billions
Basic education for everyone in the world 6
Cosmetics in the United States 8
Water and sanitation for everyone in the world 9
Ice cream in Europe 11
Reproductive health for all women in the world 12
Perfumes in Europe and the United States 12
Basic health and nutrition for everyone in the world 13
Pet foods in Europe and the United States 17
Business entertainment in Japan 35
Cigarettes in Europe 50
Alcoholic drinks in Europe 105
Narcotics drugs in the world 400
Military spending in the world 780
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#3793 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 04:39 AM

Interesting website

Causes of Poverty

"The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the poorest 48 nations (i.e. a quarter of the world's countries) is less than the wealth of the world's three richest people combined."

http://www.globalissues.org/
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#3794 Pliny

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 05:21 AM

Nature will balance things out if we manage to get too far out of balance or start evolving in the wrong direction. There may be some suffering involved but nature does what's necessary without flinching.

Over the course of my discussions here at Pravda I have more or less congealed my beliefs into a firm concept.

If we agree that government is force, as is described in Mr. Daughn's dissertation on Libertarianism and Anarchy, we can proceed to seperate it from economics and social structure.

Government, in order to function must remain pure in it's mandate of justice and that is another thing that needs to be agreed upon, that its mandate is justice.

We have to seperate economic and social systems from government,

Goverments today whether governing capitalist systems or socialist systems or trying to combine the two tries to fuse itself with the social structure. I do not believe that to be necessary.

The good and bad of both systems, Capitalism and Socialism, have been argued by much better minds than mine. But I would say that the role of government as concerns the social structure has been intentionally obfuscated by certain interests.

What has occurred is that Capitalism has been allowed to "buy" government. Whether Socialism or Capitalism is the system it seems to get corrupted by men of government or men of government can be corrupted by them. And let's not forget that government is a force. The collective force of the people to maintain justice.

Today socialists argue about the faults of capitalism and all the evils in the world are due to this economic system.

But I would enjoin them to take another look and see that capitalism's partner is government. That injustice's can come into being under capitalism is not disputed, that they can continue to exist is the fault of government which is charged with the maintenace of justice.

The fact that injustices would occur under a socialist system is a given, considering the nature of man. That they would continue would be again the fault of government. The reason socialism requires a bigger government is because it requires more force.

Capitalism will exist without force but be, when abused, unjust and when it can corrupt government or buy it, it marks the demise of that society. . Socialism, on a large scale, cannot exist without force. On a small scale, I believe, it can exist without force and some people may prefer to live under that type of societal structure. It can be Authoritarian or Dictatorial as long as the rules are agreed to and not forced as in law. In other words the person has choice to live under those rules or not and force remains the province of government.

Now as to the economic system, Bader, I think we both agree it is built on a house of straw and is ready to fall down at any moment.

The Keynesian model is what is most used in countries today. It was adopted by gvoernment because it is interventionist. It may be that the world's top capitalists, who have managed to gain and maintain their position by collusion with government, installed the model for their own interests. If they had not had the ability to buy government they would have been hung decades ago. Nevertheless, the institution of Keynes' theories has allowed governments or bankers if you prefer to usurp all the wealth of the world and future production through debt.

"Sovereign credit" or credit based on GNP as proposed by Social credit, which you support, Bader, is not a bad idea but it still leaves the creation of money in the hands of a few and that will most certainly be a very expensive service. In fact all goods and services not based on a market system will tend to be overvalued and consequently unfair. This also raises the ugly spectre of inflation as well. Basically, it leaves the control of the money supply in the hands of a few men. If it were seperate from government it may have a chance of being fair if government could understand economy and enforce justice to prevail.

I still say that a currency backed by gold, with honest bankers, that realized it wasn't theirs and was in their vaults for safekeeping, would be the best model to keep that wealth in the hands of the people. There would not be rampant consumerism and unchecked exponential growth but stable growth and meaningful and valuable goods and services, not schemes to make money. The current economic environment is not conducive to economic security and that threat induces a kind of neuroses in the people.

Let me know your thoughts. Talk to you later.
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#3795 Bader

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 07:04 AM

There should be a little symbol that represents a clap.
People who go to the trouble of puting ideas and anlysis together
and putting it out in the public domain so to speak ( not including people like Chomsky etc for obvious reasons) should get a clap regardless of how much or how little one agrees.

You will get a reply Pliny.
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#3796 Bader

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 08:43 AM

Howdy DonQ:

I liked that article by Sheppard re anachism in Spain. Chompsky
is great isnt he?

If the American Primative Anachist group want to get rid of the industrial mega-machine, apparently the world planners want the same along with the drastic depopulation of the earth as being
put together through the world summits.

Is the market necessary?
Yes: to prolong the imperial debt money system until the new world govt is ready.
It has nothing to do with efficiency, because it is quite apparant how inefficient it can be.
It is not about a system that provides profits that becomes the basis of the high standard of living- sustainability. The sustainability is only in relation to the first point I made. The profits made from the market are all originally created as debt at virtually no cost (stroke on a computer keyboard) by banks just exactly like they did under the previous system. profits are made out of the existing debt supply.
Debt drives towards monopoly/centralised control and globalism
because national economies cant provide the growth of money
necessary to feed the monster- if the money supply isnt continually expanding (structural inflation- foget the toothfairy
nonsence about inflation being a happenstance hidden hand, the hidden hands are those of the faceless banksters) then the system will crash because it will become a bad-debt system. Debt money has to be continually cancelled and new money created. It cant be cancelled if not being repaid and thus they cant issue new loans- seizes up, if they do issue too much more thn the rate of cancelling they have a bubble that can burst-crash. I have previously described this like an eroplane that slows to the point of fallingout of the sky.
So the international bankers make govts like Brazil adopt free market policies for global players and thus it takes the plunder of labour and resoucres to keep the aeroplane in the air, hopefully
for them it will land at world govt before it falls out of the sky. A war or two like Iraq is also a big help.
Argentina has refused to try and feed the dynasaur and starve their children and export their future.
What ethnicity owns any corporation is irrelvant likewise the
demands of what commodities.
The whole hedging structures because of debt must have ahuge added impact on the dynamics as well since it relates directly to prices and price control, which is another global factor.
So the free market is a revolution to end the national economy
and make them trans-national as the blocks are designed to
acommodate. Its all the pre-cursor to world govt.
It is natural under such a system, such dynamics, that the local needs are not going to be met, but everything will be diverted
to global market demands to repay debt to keep the aeroplane in the air, to control prices etc. Many thousands of African children have died from starvation and malnutrician because of these policies and their own leaders accepting globalisation as in Brazil and China to name just two who accept slave-labour on their people.
All these global regimes are at this point the informal world govt.
It remains to be made formal thats all. The build up of global crisis (desease, terrorism, economic/financial, natural/weather etc) and /or another world war could bring it to pass.

I didnt get the meaning of "humans should control it" in relation to the Katje post. The comment that the third world is growing increasingly politically and economically independant ... is a new one on me.
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#3797 Bader

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 08:57 AM

Howdy Woj:

Your beloved communist lion system boasted that it would lead the world to paradise by getting rid of religion(Christianity). At the end of seventy years the persecuted and politically appointed Russian Church was in better shape than the all powerful state.
No comment you an make changes this.
I doubt if there has been any apology but the State recognises the Church today even though you dont.
The parody boomeranged and went back and hit the thrower.
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#3798 Bader

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 10:12 AM

just read Joe Vialls latest, well worth a read, with a claim as to Khordorvosky's role.

www.joevialls.altermedia.info/wecontrolamerica/peakoil.html

www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr64.html
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#3799 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Pliny

And let's not forget that government is a force. The collective force of the people to maintain justice.

But I would enjoin them to take another look and see that capitalism's partner is government.
The fact that injustices would occur under a socialist system is a given, considering the nature of man. That they would continue would be again the fault of government. The reason socialism requires a bigger government is because it requires more force.

Capitalism will exist without force . Socialism, on a large scale, cannot exist without force..


Your theory that socialism requires force when capitalism is peaceful system, can only consequently proves that US is socialist country when China is capitalist one.
Next natural step is that US builds democracy when she need oil , when China builds Jangcy Kiank dam what is act of war. Gebels is alive and well, but his convictions one can sells only in US.
But don
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#3800 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 12:13 PM

<Nature will balance things out if we manage to get too far out of balance or start evolving in the wrong direction. There may be some suffering involved but nature does what's necessary without flinching.>

Howdy Pliny
Instead of doing a lenghty analysis, I'll just pick on the above point and recycle this post. But I'm sure Bader will take care of the rest.;)

The fact that we are swimming in s***--quite literally--is nature's way of getting back to us. The lie is catching up with the liar...;)

> > From my vantage point Key West is the "first free territory in
> > America," but you can have Iraq. ;)
>
> If that is how you feel THEN. I can't wait until the world is free of people like you.
> Greens are wrong...and remember it's eviroMENTALists.

It's because of people like you that Key West is not Paradise. The
sign at the beach goes: "Swim at your own risk: POLLUTED WATERS." :(

"In the reefs off the Florida Keys, 70 percent of elkhorn corals have
been wiped out by white pox disease, which is caused by human
intestinal bacteria."

This ain't Paradise. I mean, unless you don't mind swimming in s***.

I don't mind you have declared war on the environmentalists, but I
think you guys also have declared WAR ON THE ENVIRONMENT...


Sewage Pollution Threatens Public Health
Aging sewer systems and rollbacks of environmental law are compounding
the problem.

Four Bush Administration Policies that Would Worsen Our Sewage
Problems
Blending

The Bush administration wants to change the requirements under the
current law to allow sewage that is only partially treated to be
"blended" with fully treated sewage during rainstorms and then dumped
into waterways. State environmental agencies in Florida, Georgia, New
Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Washington, as well as the American
Public Health Association, public health officials, shellfishermen,
marina operators and tens of thousands of others are fighting this
proposal.

Reduced Funding for Clean Water
Under both the Clean Water Act and the Safe Drinking Water Act,
programs called State Revolving Funds help local communities meet
water quality standards, repair and replace old and decaying pipelines
and treatment plants, and ensure continued progress toward restoring
the health and safety of America's water bodies. The Bush
administration proposes to slash funding for these programs, even
though increases are needed to assure clean and safe drinking water
for communities across the country.

Threat to Florida's Drinking Water
Another Bush administration proposal would weaken rules in Florida
governing underground injection wells, where sewage treatment plants
routinely dump enormous volumes of sewage. This practice carries
potentially disastrous health and environmental consequences -- waste
is being discharged into underground formations near drinking water
sources. (Florida is the only state in the continental United States
in which more than 90 percent of the residents drink water from
underground sources.) The administration's proposal would allow
continued and even increased injection of treated sewage in Florida,
even if the sewage could threaten public health by contaminating
underground sources of drinking water.

Sanitary Sewer Overflow Controls in Limbo
In 2001 the Bush administration, calling for more study, shelved a
regulation that would have controlled raw sewage discharges and
required the public to be notified when sewer overflows occur. The
sanitary sewer overflow rule would keep bacteria-laden raw sewage
discharges out of America's streets, waterways and basements and make
public reporting and notification of sewer overflows mandatory. Three
years later the EPA continues to delay, and Americans are still denied
even rudimentary public notice of sewage contamination of drinking
water sources and waters where they swim and fish.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates that every year, in
each county across the nation, the amount of untreated sewage that
enters the environment is enough to fill both the Empire State
Building and Madison Square Garden. And Swimming in Sewage, a February
2004 report by NRDC and the Environmental Integrity Project, shows
that sewage overflows -- some legal, some not -- are creating an
environmental and public health crisis:

-In Hamilton County, Ohio, a single sewer discharges 75 million
gallons of untreated sewage into Mill Creek each year, including
during summer months when children swim in the river.

-In Indianapolis, more than 1 billion gallons of untreated sewage are
discharged into the environment each year because treatment plants
cannot handle the flow during wet weather.

-In Michigan, 2,000 homes sustained sewer-related damage in 1999 and
2000.

-In Washington, D.C., a half-inch of rain can make sewers overflow
into the Anacostia River, which runs through the heart of the city.

-Untreated sewage carries a dangerous cargo of infectious bacteria,
viruses, parasites and toxic chemicals. When it ends up in our
recreational and drinking water, in groundwater and in the basements
of our homes, it takes a severe toll on human health and the
environment:

-Each year, 1.8 million to 3.5 million illnesses are caused by
swimming in water contaminated by sewage overflows, and an additional
500,000 from drinking contaminated water.

-U.S. medical costs associated with eating sewage-contaminated
shellfish range from $2.5 million to $22 million each year.

-In the reefs off the Florida Keys, 70 percent of elkhorn corals have
been wiped out by white pox disease, which is caused by human
intestinal bacteria.

http://www.nrdc.org/...tion/sewage.asp
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