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What would it take for Russia to be #1?

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#3961 donquijote


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:41 AM

<Well thats about it, no point in splitting hairs it simply personal choice of words. I note the reference to the persecution complex
and camoflage- careful now!>

OK, Bader, now I put it on my website, and people will know the basics of survival. I'll see how to make it fit in my flyers since the print is already very small.

<You put it right- nothing is what it seems in the jungle. >

Even charities, Tibetan monks and Popes can be... Well, you know what they are, right?;)
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#3962 Bader


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 04:38 AM

Excellent article DonQ.
Good one for Woj to answer but like statistics and the rosey side of the picture it can be made to look good but when its is at the expense of many its like the wild west without the west.

First point I noted was the truth about the present situation in the post-colonial world, the local elite get away with much because of the same old tune played decade in decade out, well it may have been a factor once but after half a century its time the local leaders of India, as an eg started to take responsibility for what they have and havent got no more blaming the British
or more so the East India Co the multi-national plunderer of those days.

NZ is coming into a crisis re energy/electricity and has to increase
generation by 75% and are looking at all the possibilities left which is only small dams, we've done all the big ones already and apparently the Kyoto Agreement which we have recently signed is the biggest hinderance to further development. Talk about putting one head in the lions mouth. Further development is being arrested which will bring on global crisis even faster but I bet China will ignore it all.

All completely unnecessary because Tesla has already shown the way.

The second point I took was the large scale planning which is typical of the socialist, anti-human approach to life. It is an area where corporatism and socialism share the same bed. And the world govt will be the same, 'success' based on the cost of many lives. Third Reich was the same.

The third point was Ghandi sure liberated them didnt he. Maybe he need a person like DonQ to educate him in the difference between a lion and a lion.

By the way I though you were Russian, its appears you are not.
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#3963 donquijote


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 04:45 AM

OK, Bader, I'm going to challenge you this way. You read to the end and, before you read the name, tell my if the guy is real or not.

I guess Bush has more faces than Kerry...;)


Dear Mr. Bush,

I am so confused. Where exactly do you stand on the issue of Iraq? You, your Dad, Rummy, Condi, Colin, and Wolfie -- you have all changed your minds so many times, I am out of breath just trying to keep up with you!

Which of these 10 positions that you, your family and your cabinet have taken over the years represents your CURRENT thinking:

1983-88: WE LOVE SADDAM. On December 19, 1983, Donald Rumsfeld was sent by your dad and Mr. Reagan to go and have a friendly meeting with Saddam Hussein, the dictator of Iraq. Rummy looked so happy in the picture. Just twelve days after this visit, Saddam gassed thousands of Iranian troops. Your dad and Rummy seemed pretty happy with the results because The Donald R. went back to have another chummy hang-out with Saddams right-hand man, Tariq Aziz, just four months later. All of this resulted in the U.S. providing credits and loans to Iraq that enabled Saddam to buy billions of dollars worth of weapons and chemical agents. The Washington Post reported that your dad and Reagan let it be known to their Arab allies that the Reagan/Bush administration wanted Iraq to win its war with Iran and anyone who helped Saddam accomplish this was a friend of ours.

1990: WE HATE SADDAM. In 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait, your dad and his defense secretary, Dick Cheney, decided they didn't like Saddam anymore so they attacked Iraq and returned Kuwait to its rightful dictators.

1991: WE WANT SADDAM TO LIVE. After the war, your dad and Cheney and Colin Powell told the Shiites to rise up against Saddam and we would support them. So they rose up. But then we changed our minds. When the Shiites rose up against Saddam, the Bush inner circle changed its mind and decided NOT to help the Shiites. Thus, they were massacred by Saddam.

1998: WE WANT SADDAM TO DIE. In 1998, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others, as part of the Project for the New American Century, wrote an open letter to President Clinton insisting he invade and topple Saddam Hussein.

2000: WE DON'T BELIEVE IN WAR AND NATION BUILDING. Just three years later, during your debate with Al Gore in the 2000 election, when asked by the moderator Jim Lehrer where you stood when it came to using force for regime change, you turned out to be a downright pacifist:

I--I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don't think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we've got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president [Al Gore] and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I--I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place. And so I take my--I take my--my responsibility seriously. --October 3, 2000

2001 (early): WE DON'T BELIEVE SADDAM IS A THREAT. When you took office in 2001, you sent your Secretary of State, Colin Powell, and your National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice, in front of the cameras to assure the American people they need not worry about Saddam Hussein. Here is what they said:

Powell: We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they have directed that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was 10 years ago when we began it. And frankly, they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. --February 24, 2001

Rice: But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt. --July 29, 2001

2001 (late): WE BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US! Just a few months later, in the hours and days after the 9/11 tragedy, you had no interest in going after Osama bin Laden. You wanted only to bomb Iraq and kill Saddam and you then told all of America we were under imminent threat because weapons of mass destruction were coming our way. You led the American people to believe that Saddam had something to do with Osama and 9/11. Without the UN's sanction, you broke international law and invaded Iraq.

2003: WE DONT BELIEVE SADDAM IS GOING TO KILL US. After no WMDs were found, you changed your mind about why you said we needed to invade, coming up with a brand new after-the-fact reason -- we started this war so we could have regime change, liberate Iraq and give the Iraqis democracy!

2003: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Yes, everyone saw you say it -- in costume, no less!

2004: OOPS. MISSION NOT ACCOMPLISHED! Now you call the Iraq invasion a "catastrophic success." That's what you called it this month. Over a thousand U.S. soldiers have died, Iraq is in a state of total chaos where no one is safe, and you have no clue how to get us out of there.

Mr. Bush, please tell us -- when will you change your mind again?

I know you hate the words "flip" and "flop," so I won't use them both on you. In fact, I'll use just one: Flop. That is what you are. A huge, colossal flop. The war is a flop, your advisors and the "intelligence" they gave you is a flop, and now we are all a flop to the rest of the world. Flop. Flop. Flop.

And you have the audacity to criticize John Kerry with what you call the "many positions" he has taken on Iraq. By my count, he has taken only one: He believed you. That was his position. You told him and the rest of congress that Saddam had WMDs. So he -- and the vast majority of Americans, even those who didn't vote for you -- believed you. You see, Americans, like John Kerry, want to live in a country where they can believe their president.

That was the one, single position John Kerry took. He didn't support the war, he supported YOU. And YOU let him and this great country down. And that is why tens of millions can't wait to get to the polls on Election Day -- to remove a major, catastrophic flop from our dear, beloved White House -- to stop all the flipping you and your men have done, flipping us and the rest of the world off.

We can't take another minute of it.


Michael Moore
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#3964 Bader


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 05:46 AM

I caught the name before your request registered.
Moore is saying I cant wait to vote for Kerry, he cant tell the difference between a lion and a lion either!

Moore has a rather long way to go to get it, the balance, right.
He may get there, I hope he does.

He also reinforces the simpletons view that Bush is in charge.
Bush may agrre with him but that carries no weight.
Which reminds me about the India dams article. There was another point that stood out and probably first was that the writer also tended to put the sky at the level just above govt
were as I have no doubt that the govt is being directed by the Inter. Bankers to do certain things to pay off debt which makes the whole energy/resouce abuse issue a joke. They knew what the outcome of their polices are going to be and so they choose the ones that will produce the end they want. Like the science laws.
India and China have also indicated that they will build a number of more nuclear power stations while Iran is not allowed her first one.
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#3965 donquijote


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 11:26 AM

<The third point was Ghandi sure liberated them didnt he. Maybe he need a person like DonQ to educate him in the difference between a lion and a lion.>

People don't realize their own lion, and it may be even worse than foreign one. The reason is simple: better camouflage. Much talk about "nationalism" etc. but there he is. People in Africa, are worse off now than in the colonial era, go and figure. They haven't build the water well, and they don't receive the benefit of law and order. Beware of the lion among you!!!:confused:

<By the way I though you were Russian, its appears you are not.>

No, I'm Cuban of Spanish blood (though people think I'm Australian for my looks). The reason I gave it this title about Russia is that Castro lectures the Cuban people with the disaster of the Soviet Union, as to scare the little animals to follow him. Very clever, ah? Well, I started constructing this solution over 10 years ago to counter that and the name went to mean "this is something else." Now also is very useful when I say "join the revolution" to catch people's attention and then go on to say "for Russia" (a remote place) to play it safe, you know.
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#3966 donquijote


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 11:33 AM

<Moore has a rather long way to go to get it, the balance, right.
He may get there, I hope he does.>

Well, we'll know soon enough: I wrote to him directly, and if he doesn't answer then he's fake. I said, "Do you really mean to change the world?"

The journalist (Jorge Ramos) calling to "hunt the lion" was fake as I posted in his forum and he ignored my call to carry through.

As we say: "Nothing's what it seems in the jungle.";)
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#3967 donquijote


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Posted 24 September 2004 - 11:59 AM

Another hard-hitting article by Palast. This time it's about how they learn to be an actor before a journalist in America. Fake it, baby, fake it...;)

On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
By Greg Palast

September 21, 2004 00:29

"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the
tough questions," the aging American journalist told the British
television audience.

In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he
dare not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and
self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news on
the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of
line, he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.

"It's an obscene comparison," he said, "but there was a time in South
Africa when people would put flaming tires around people's necks if they
dissented. In some ways, the fear is that you will be necklaced here.
You will have a flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your
neck." No US reporter who values his neck or career will "bore in on the
tough questions."

Dan said all these things to a British audience. However, back in the
USA, he smothered his conscience and told his TV audience: "George Bush
is the President. He makes the decisions. He wants me to line up, just
tell me where."

During the war in Vietnam, Dan's predecessor at CBS, Walter Cronkite,
asked some pretty hard questions about Nixon's handling of the war in
Vietnam. Today, our sons and daughters are dying in Bush wars. But,
unlike Cronkite, Dan could not, would not, question George Bush, Top Gun
Fighter Pilot, Our Maximum Beloved Leader in the war on terror.

On the British broadcast, without his network minders snooping, you
could see Dan seething and deeply unhappy with himself for playing the

"What is going on," he said, "I'm sorry to say, is a belief that the
public doesn't need to know -- limiting access, limiting information to
cover the backsides of those who are in charge of the war. It's
extremely dangerous and cannot and should not be accepted, and I'm sorry to say
that up to and including this moment of this interview, that
overwhelmingly it has been accepted by the American people. And the current
Administration revels in that, they relish and take refuge in that."

Dan's words had a poignant personal ring for me. He was speaking on
Newsnight, BBC's nightly current affairs program, which broadcasts my own
reports. I do not report for BBC, despite its stature, by choice. The
truth is, if I want to put a hard, investigative report about the USA
on the nightly news, I have to broadcast it in exile, from London. For
Americans my broadcasts are stopped at an electronic Berlin wall.

Indeed, Dan is in hot water for a report my own investigative team put
in Britain's Guardian papers and on BBC TV years ago. Way back in
1999, I wrote that former Texas Lt. Governor Ben Barnes had put in the fix
for little George Bush to get out of 'Nam and into the Air Guard.

What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the
rest of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except
that Dan Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready
to step out of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and
got it chopped off.

Is Rather's report accurate? Is George W. Bush a war hero or a
privileged little Shirker-in-Chief? Today I saw a goofy two page spread in the
Washington Post about a typewriter used to write a memo with no
significance to the draft-dodge story. What I haven't read about in my own
country's media is about two crucial documents supporting the BBC/CBS
story. The first is Barnes' signed and sworn affidavit to a Texas Court,
from 1999, in which he testifies to the Air Guard fix -- which Texas
Governor George W. Bush, given the opportunity, declined to challenge.

And there is a second document, from the files of US Justice
Department, again confirming the story of the fix to keep George's white bottom
out of Vietnam. That document, shown last year in the BBC television
documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," correctly identifies Barnes as the
bag man even before his 1999 confession.

At BBC, we also obtained a statement from the man who made the call to
the Air Guard general on behalf of Bush at Barnes' request. Want to
see the document? I've posted it at:

This is not a story about Dan Rather. The white millionaire celebrity
can defend himself without my help. This is really a story about fear,
the fear that stops other reporters in the US from following the
evidence about this Administration to where it leads. American news guys and
news gals, practicing their smiles, adjusting their hairspray levels,
bleaching their teeth and performing all the other activities that are
at the heart of US TV journalism, will look to the treatment of Dan
Rather and say, "Not me, babe." No questions will be asked, as Dan
predicted, lest they risk necklacing and their careers as news actors burnt to
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#3968 donquijote


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Posted 25 September 2004 - 05:42 PM

Bader, we got the new Italian friend participating in this forum. He thinks so much like us, but we do use humor, spicy and not spicy. The Spaghetti Revolution is a possibility...;)

<Ciao, Don Quixote...
Do you see?, at last I came here.>

Hi Alberto, did you come, or did I drag you?;)

Anyway we were wasting ideas that could be put to better use through this fantastic forum.

<You explained very well that a real, useful, lasting rEVOLUTION has to be FUN & CONCRETE, not bloody propaganda or aggressive violence nor the same old corrupted or fanatic and stupid autocracy/oligarchy (dictatorship of one or a few).
ANIMAL FARM docet (teaches).>

Look at Venezuela, any revolution, once and again the lion-pigs rising out confrontation with the Big Lion (the farmer in Animal Farm). The new strong lion-pig claims to be rightful shepherd of the little animals, but soon enough they'll learn of his predatory habits. One of his decisions is to get little lion Cuba into lending them a hand, something they will pay in due time. It's the same principle of the "loans" to the poor nations. They pay for it--with interests...;)

Our fun revolution though promises to give a political platform to everyone of the little people, so they know what's up. We must build the water well ourselves. I don't think even that we need ANY type of diplomatic relationship with lions. When you get them into your territory, they start cajoling the revolution into this or that. What do you think?

There's a wonderful movie (set in Italy!) we haven't spoken about that illustrates what it takes. "Saving Grace" (there are tow movies by that name) is about a Pope (say a lion but a good one) who decides to leave his secluded post and help directly the little people build a water well. Well, that's what it takes. We can discuss the movie later, and I'll try to post it here...

<Your 'No lion, no problem...' jungle (or better savana, it doesn't change much) too, in its groove.
And it has to start - or better restart - from effective, true, well managed GLocal COOPS.>

Well, we need EXPERTS. We can bring them from kibbutz, Mondragon, Denmark...

<(Economies of) Real Theocracy? Real Fascism? Real Nazism? Real Communism (of of any kind)? Real (Wild) Capitalism? Corrupted & Fake Democracy?
Or 'Coopowerism' that is Banana Republic's natural economy?

"Democracy" as practiced today is a fairy tale without a happy ending, take America, Italy, UK, Australia and the list goes on and on. REAL DEMOCRACY would be about HAVING CHOICES, either to join a coop or not (VOTE WITH YOUR FEET). From there, we got to set the right set of priorities that would make peace and not war profitable. WAR IS BUSINESS TODAY; LIES (media) IS BIG BUSINESS TODAY; DRUG TRAFFICKING IS BIG BUSINESS TODAY, but PEACE AND JUSTICE are not, the Cinderella, you know.

<-GLEBAL? No, go to hell. (The gleba, as many of you know, was the sort of feud Russian noblemen had life and death power on until 1860, which included land, things, castles, animals and servants, isn't it?)
-NO GLOBAL? Uhm, no...
Still too many conformist anti- (non anti-conformist) and fanatics in it, too much of older, obsolete wrong ideologies. Just doing always the opposite of GLEBAL or ignoring some means noone and nothing doesn't you succeed.
-NEW GLOBAL? Maybe, I don't know, let's see...

I'd pick the last one and then maybe a bit of new global, enough to ensure world issues, international treaties, etc.


Choose your spaghetti over McDonald's but don't forget of the banana mulatas. They too want to try the spaghetti with meatballs, you know...;)

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#3969 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 03:54 AM

Kofi Annan's denunciation of the law of the jungle comes a bit late--like when it's safe for him--but still sets the record straight.

"Sorry, shit happens," says the lion.;)

Zakaria bleats as the fat lady is getting ready
By Shahid Alam
Sep 21, 2004, 12:02

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's recent statement to BBC that he thought that the Iraq war was illegal and at cross purposes with the UN Charter is significant principally for drawing attention to the distinct subordination of international organization to the self-serving nation-state in the Westphalian anarchical international system. It also reveals a few more things, some obvious, like the reiteration of a long-held contempt for the UN by the United States, others less so, like Annan stating the obvious apparently only when he feels that there is no peril in doing so. He had made a similar statement some time back, but well after the Bush-Blair invasion and occupation of Iraq was a fait accompli, when he declared to the UN General Assembly that preemptive military intervention poses a fundamental challenge to the UN and could lead to the law of the jungle. "My concern is that," he declared then, "it could set precedents that resulted in a proliferation of the unilateral and lawless use of force, with or without credible justification." That was not an earth-shaking sagacity, nor the act unprecedented (the US, for one, had resorted to several unilateral actions against other countries since World War II), but it would have carried far greater weight (if not necessarily effectiveness) had he uttered the words at the time when the US cynically arm-twisted the UN Security Council into passing Resolution 1441, which was then shamelessly used as a convenient pretext to launch the preemptive strike.

Predictably, Annan's latest opinion has drawn ire from the US establishment apologists, as well as assertion from Australia and Great Britain that 1441 was good enough for international authorization for unilateralism. Annan, and many others, has held that a second, more substantive as well as precise, resolution was necessary for the action to have had UN validity, but that 1441 was even passed in the first place on the basis of spurious American and British evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is a sad commentary on the success of US bullying tactics, and the tepid (alternatively, meek surrender) effort of the permanent Council members in examining all the crucial aspects of the case being made for unilateralism. Whatever one may make of Annan's timing of his statements, there is little to dispute the gravity of his words, especially when viewed from the broader perspective of the operation of the international system in a unipolar world dominated by a hyperpower run by a cabal of evil men and women.
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#3970 Bader


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 07:41 AM

Like, pre-empt the UNs next resolution.
Howdy DonQ,

I made a big post this morning but the link failed and I lost it.

I found Alberto on the poll thread, otherwise it looks like he is your little ventriloquist doll on your lap, copying his speaking.

Spagette Revolution or Banana Revolution?

I would go eith Spagetti. Why?

Because it consists of many strands. A good symbol of society,
all making a contribution. Who needs the one-strand ideal of the libertarians, a one stranf meal? Or a monopoly of strands on the elites plate while the many feed on the water poured off after boiling it?

Also like cooking a meal etc the produce/output is greater than the sum of the parts, right. And the smallest material contribution can make the majority of the material contribution so
much more enjoyable.
The difference between the sum of the parts and the final product is the social credit- the increment of association, that is socially owned not lion owned. So the revolution is to get that
prosperity back to where it belongs.
The banana also displays the same law of nature, its final product is so much more than its orginal parts of seed and elements in the soil plus water, but it has no human /social representation.

Have good article to share, would be a great one for Woj if he is still lerking about:


about the Russian issue with Britain and the US in the aftermath of Beslan.
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#3971 woj1@cyberonic.


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Bader
Have good article to share, would be a great one for Woj if he is still lerking about:


about the Russian issue with Britain and the US in the aftermath of Beslan.

Thank you Bader; Shamil Basayew speech was advertised for the whole week to make sure that everybody understands who were behind it. I even noticed the Donq saying that Beslan would be repeated
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#3972 woj1@cyberonic.


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 12:41 PM

Originally posted by donquijote

<Perhaps Woj has taken trip to Britain. He might be in the British Museum right now doing research as marx did to try an woo the world. Im not sure as to whether Lenin did his apprenticeship there as well. Without British guidance ( and Wall ST finance) he will not unit the Slavs.
Right? Wink.>


I don
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#3973 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:23 PM

<I made a big post this morning but the link failed and I lost it.>

Howdy Bader
I'm sorry to hear that; it's so frustrating. I almost lost one long that took me like an hour to research and put together, but saved it before in order to post a copy here. I'll try to post it here next.

<I found Alberto on the poll thread, otherwise it looks like he is your little ventriloquist doll on your lap, copying his speaking.>

Well, it's not the case. He coincides with us in many areas and he may sound like you too. Remember, Woj thought you and I were the same person...

The only puppet-pupeteer relationship is that of the lion-smaller predatos and the strings are visible to us: money, money, money...

We, on the other hand, as many differences as we may have, are sick and tired of the li-on, and propose a *democratic solution* to a dictatorship.


WE ARE UNITED IN DIVERSITY though, united against dictatorship, and united for diversity.:cool:

I heard this morning about these workers going to Iraq to pay off debts. One of these from India was kidnapped and later released after his company paid $2 million in ransom for him and other workers. He argues he was lied to, but an analyst said this: "it's all about money, it's all about money, it's all about money"...:(

<Spagette Revolution or Banana Revolution?>

Again, it could stand for "UNITED IN DIVERSITY," since we realize that the solution for Central America is not the solution for Italy and is not the solution for Russia.

By the way, what's the name for Russia, the Vodka Revolution?:cool:
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#3974 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:36 PM

<02. Yes, I looked at it. They (Chavez and his entorurage) are doing with Cuba what Barbudos did in 1962 - and shouldn't -, after three years of possible 'Banana rEVOLUTION' (1959-1962). He's unfortunately a late leftwing Caudillo/Ra'is too like Bushes, Blair and Berlusconi are rightwing ones.
And it's a real pity, as he's an Indio, a native...>

Back again, Alberto
Yes, but you can be indio and... you know, lion...;)

Exactly as you said, Cuba was a revolution until '62 or so. After so many attacks by the Big Lion, it itself became a lion. So much so that many people missed the old lion!!!:confused:

<03. An ECOnomic & METApolitical platform to build and have built (as for those who really can't, for any good reason) water dwells, that's it.>

The coops taking care of the needs of their members (not by feeding anyone but by "teaching them how to fish"--more below) and then a safety net outside for those who can't. Of course, this net won't be overloaded the way welfare is today, which is basically getting the poor out of the way, and getting them used to the "handouts" like in the movie.

<04. I've to agree: for all LIONS the final aim to have "diplomatic relations" is to eat you as much easily as possible, all in all.>

You let them in, and they'll corrupt your farm. They shouldn't become though the scapegoat that they are in places like Cuba. That's the whole and only political discourse they got. The "embargo," as if before you launch a revolution, you don't count on the lions' boycott. Castro didn't know, or better, didn't care to build the water well for better control of the little animals!



OK, there's a group Danish cooperative experts at yahoo groups, but I couldn't find it. That shouldn't be a problem. What we need though is to implement this kind of instruction to the little people...

"N.F.S. Grundtvig and the Danish folk high school are always
mentioned as an important part of the background of the success
of the cooperative movement. The folk high schools are schools
for adults, where the students reside during the course period,
e.g. 6 months. Many farmers' sons went to the folk high schools,
where they not only dealt with concrete knowledge, but also
emphasized the free word, conversation, discussion, history,
social debate and active participation in the decisions of the
democracy. The folk high schools promoted the conscious mental
life. The young farmers understood that they were responsible for
their own future. In this way the human basis for the cooperative
movement was ready. The basis of knowledge was also present,
partly because of the general obligatory school in Denmark and
partly because of the agricultural schools."

In other words, Alberto, we need to "teach them how to fish" and promote "the conscious mental life" without the lion...:cool:



I don't know, the ABC of handling the lion (http://webspawner.co...ers/donquijote1) it's a good place to start. The lion can not rule without the little animals.;)

I'll post something at the end...

<08. Let's call it 'New Coopowerism', 'No Lions, No Problems', 'Banana Republic ECOnomy', Metànya - The GLocal ImagicNation ECONOMY, you name it. The problem is not the name - which has its utility to 'delimit' an idea, a project. It's to really restart together, seriously. It could become one of the most exiting and useful vocational profession for some people. Apart from terrorism and pollution, also in "rich" and "developed" countries - for instance Italy - people of every age started losing jobs and never get them back or just can't find any, life costs too much, if you've a job you earn less and have to work more, too much rubbish is dumped, not only from the USA, like McDonald's, Coca Cola and Hellywood 'shoot 'em all' movies (I didn't write 'USA' movies).
The Rolling Stones played and sang 'Satisfaction'.
Now we should write and sing 'Unsatisfaction'.>

Exactly, the name is so insignificant that we can afford to call it spaghetti, banana... But are they really insignificant to the proles? Well, they are a matter of life and death to them, so we can stick with the names.

"Unsatisfaction" or "Jungle" could accurately describe life at the beginning of the Third Millenium, AD...:(

By the way, only good Westerns are Spaghetti Westerns...:cool:

(This story is part of an organization that also proposes nonviolence to tame the lion. We have exchanged links)


Once upon a time there lived a cruel King who ruled with an iron fist. He was the most powerful King in the world, with a powerful army and an abundance of gold. One day the General of his army came to him with some rather bad news.

"Your Lordship," said the General, "my men are tired of war. They are tired of bad food and mud and blood and they wish to come home. We have already conquered half the world and the royal treasury is bursting with gold. The men think enough is enough."

"The men think?" screamed the King. "What do I care what the men think? The men do not rule this kingdom--I do. Hang the men who will not fight."

"I have, your Highness. I've executed hundreds. But they still will not fight anymore. Now the executioners are refusing to hang any more soldiers."

"Then hang the hangmen," ordered the King.

"Me personally? I'm afraid I couldn't do that. They are all close personal friends."

"Then I'll have you hung. Guards! Seize him!"

But try as he might, the King could not find anyone willing to arrest the General.

"I'll kill you myself then," screamed the furious King.

Just then a palace guard came in and announced that hundreds of women and children were gathering outside the palace gates and demanding that their men be allowed to come home from the wars.

"Tell them to go home," said the King.

"We have," said the guard. "But they won't leave."

"Have them hung then."

"We don't have enough rope."

"Arrest them."

"We don't have enough dungeon space."

"Then let them stay there until hell freezes over," shrieked the King.

"How will we get supplies into the palace, your Highness?" asked the guard.

"We have plenty of supplies for now. All this disobedience has made me hungry. Where's my lunch?"

"The cook has joined the people outside," said the guard.

"Well I still have my gold," said the King. "Have the palace treasurer give a gold coin to everyone who will obey me."

"The palace treasurer has joined the people outside as well," said the guard. "And the rest of the staff is packing their bags."

So the hapless King was forced to cook his own meals, wash his own clothes, dress himself and make his own bed. As time went by, the people surrounding the palace began to go home and resume their lives, and the soldiers straggled home from the wars. The King was forced to take all his gold and move into a small cottage that didn't require so much upkeep.

But still no one would obey him--not the neighborhood children when he told them to get out of his garden, not even his own dog. Day after day, the King would sit and count his gold that no one would accept. Sometimes one of his old subjects would come by and they would enjoy a game of chess, but unlike the old days, they wouldn't let the King win.

Meanwhile, the people in the Kingdom prospered in peace and lived happily ever after.

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#3975 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:54 PM

<I even noticed the Donq saying that Beslan would be repeated-.... Threatening the Slavs? But how to expect from Cuban American(?) to understand Slav spirit and to remember and how many Russians die to win in Stalingrad. Slavs have already existed three thousand years and will go on unless new meteorite on September 29 will raze out life from the earth-... >

Howdy Woj, though you come very aggressive...:confused:

It certainly is not a "threat" since I only use words to make my point. But I excuse it on your IQ...;)

Perhaps I have a vantage point talking from the jungle. But really, it's only common sense: We all live in a world of injustice and indifference. I approached many Russians in Key West and they couldn't care less. It's the same thing all over the world. And now the reaction has been toward stronger lion. When are you moving there?:confused:

The problem, Woj, is the jungle...;)

"The tragedy leaves more questions. There will hardly be one right
answer. But I think one answer I have - we all, every one of us is a
contributor to what is happening in the world. Do we know the world we
live in? Do we care about the Kurds fleeing their homes, the Sudanese
escaping genocide, the Ethiopians dying from hunger, the Iraqi and
Afghans running away from air raids, the Palestinian children fighting
tanks? Have we ever thought of all the victims of the terrorist acts
in Moscow, New York, Jerusalem, Bali, Madrid or Belfast? Did we all
care about the Chechen war before this tragedy?

It is the 10th year of the war! We all use lie, we all feel envy,
hatred and anger, we all live with prejudice and stereotypes, we all
are ignorant of our environment, we all want more and we'd never stop
to achieve our goals. I cannot see when we all are going to change
ourselves. Do we need more lives to change the world for the better?"
Petr Vinokurov, Yakutsk, Sakha, Russia
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#3976 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 03:28 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
I don-t visited British Museum recently, but accidentally open vol 193,no1 of National Geographic and read on page 9 Human Culture the following passage;
@Circa A.D. 1000; While far from creating a world culture, trade increasing moves ideas. Scandinavians carry notion of popular assembly to present day Russia. It does not last. The chair becomes commonplace in China. Bean cultivation spreds in North America. The slave trade flourishes; Slavs and Africans are major sources. Ten percent of England people are slaves, mostly from Europe. Economic hardship prompts many families to sell children. @

ha, ha ha. Polish Kingdom starts in 996, our Krakow University acts since 1264, Copernicus proved mathematically in 1473 turning of celestial bodies.
Knut Hamsung( Knud Pedersen (1859-1952), Norwegian received Nobel Price for the Hunger , biggest plague of Scandinavia, which they try to avoid selling their children to work on fishing bouts on their freezing fiords.

I have to repeat after my Frunze friend ;
Even lie has to has some sense. :)

Oh, Woj, what do we have that matches the glorious past of the Polish nation? Oh, the Poland nation who today so much admires Michael Jackson and fights the wars of the lions. Oh, the Poland who went from the Russian Lion to the Western Lion without pain or gain...

Well, I only got to show the Taino indians who were decimated by desease or committed suicide but never vowed to the Spanish Lion. And Bader, what does Bader got to offer, the Maoris? Well, to be honest, the Maoris did put up a good fight against the British Lion...;)


Maori Guerilla Warfare
By James Graham

General Cameron crossed the Mangatwhiri stream on 12 July 1863, effectively declaring war on the King Movement. As this document shows his 4000 imperial soldiers were not enough to counter the effective guerilla offensive launched against the British by the King Movement. A specialist unit formed out of colonial volunteers was thus formed to take the war to the Maori in the bush.

The Maori raiding operations were coordinated from their forward base at Meremere. The Meremere line consisted of three strong pa, Pukekawa in the west, Paparata in the east and Meremere itself. The force that manned the line fluctuated between 1100 and 1500 warriors gathered from tribes throughout the North island. Out of these bases, parties of between twenty to 200 Maori warriors roamed the bush. These parties ambushed settlers, messengers, sentries and any individuals unlucky enough to cross their path. Attacks on redoubts and patrols were made but not pushed home. In all fifty soldiers, twelve settlers and a handful of Maori supportive of the government were killed and wounded. The Maori probably also suffered similar number of casualties however the number of killed and wounded was light considering the number of engagements. Between 1 and 25 August the raiding campaign was suspended to complete the Meremere line. They were renewed again in late August and continued unabated through September and most of October. In late October the parties were called back to Meremere as the King Movement became aware that the long awaited attack by the British was not far away.

Against these Maori attacks normal soldiers were useless. The Forest Rangers as they became known were the main form of aggressive action the British mounted against the Maori raiding parties. The vast majority of British responses were reactions to Maori raids or ambushes. The Forest Rangers were formed to hunt down the Maori in the bush and to inflict serious casulities on the Maori raiding parties. The Forest Rangers were on the whole outclassed by their Maori adversaries in the bush and saw little action.


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#3977 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 04:28 PM

'I don't mean "saved" as in all workers will henceforth control the means of production. That's, um, going to take a few more years.'

Well, he may as well SAVE America once and for all.

However, since I provided him with *a flyer* that can just do that, it may very well be within grasp. Having had no answer from him though, I may assume that, by rejecting the Lion, and supporting the Fox, he's interested in keeping the jungle...;)

(The "flyer" has been tested thousands of times, and includes "the problem" as well as "the solution" in a language people like--imaginative, plain and simple... A solution that can really save America--HERE AND NOW...):cool:

The flyer is basically these two pages:

NOTE: I'm forwarding a copy of this to Michael Moore...

Dear Friends,

Tomorrow I begin a little 20-state, 60-city tour to try and convince the fed-up, the burned-out, and the Nader-impaired to leave the house for just a half-hour on November 2nd and mark an "X" in a box (or punch a chad or touch a screen) so that America and the world can be saved. (I don't mean "saved" as in all workers will henceforth control the means of production. That's, um, going to take a few more years.)

What I'm asking is that our fellow Americans, as the collective landlord of a public housing project at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., take just a few minutes to evict the tenant who is currently wrecking the place (not to mention what he's doing to the rest of the neighborhood). After all, isn't this one of the coolest things about a democracy, getting to give some payback to those in power? "YOU'RE FIRED!" Oooh, that feels good -- especially if the recipient of the pink slip is someone who wants to send your kid off to war.

So, having nothing better to do for the next month (and eager to visit such swinging states as Iowa! Ohio! Arkansas!), I have decided to go to every battleground state in the country and do whatever it takes to get out the vote. I will do your laundry, I will clean your house, I will give you a year's supply of beer nuts if you will commit to me to go to the polls on Tuesday, November 2.

I'm calling it "The Slacker Uprising Tour," a coast-to-coast effort to bring the non-voting majority out of hibernation and kick some political butt. My goal is to get as many of the 100 million non-voters in America as I can to give voting a try -- just this once. I want at least 56% of all eligible voters to vote and thus set a modern-day turnout record.

I'm putting out the red alert call to slackers everywhere to help me lead this revolt. I want everyone in their teens and twenties who exist from one packet of Ramen noodles to the next bag of Tostitos to take your fully-justified cynicism and toss it like a Molotov right into the middle of this election. As "non-voters" you have been written off. But if only a few thousand of you vote, it could make all the difference. You literally hold all the power in your hands. That's even cooler than holding a TV remote.

I, the original slacker -- I, who have endured all sorts of attacks for my slacker demeanor -- yes I am coming to an arena or stadium just outside your dorm room (or that little space off the furnace room where your parents still let you stay, rent-free). Why arenas and stadiums? Because there are so many of us -- AND they serve beer and chips. From the Sun Dome to the Key Arena, from the Patriot Center to the Del Mar Race Track, I will be there and I will bring prizes and presents and clean underwear for all in need.

Before I arrive, I have arranged for free screenings of "Fahrenheit 9/11" in each city. When I get there I will have with me dozens of voter registrars who will register new (or recently transplanted) voters (please check here for voter registration deadlines -- they are fast approaching in most states in the next 10 days!). Absentee ballot applications will also be available. And the good people of Move-On, ACT and other groups will be present at each of my appearances to sign up volunteers to get out the vote on election day.

Details of where I will be appearing will be available in your local media. Many venues, due to advance word already out there, have "sold out" (at most stops, students get in for free and community people pay a nominal fee -- usually $5 -- to cover costs). Again, check your local media to find out the times and dates and how to get advance tickets.

A partial list of the cities I'm visiting includes: Seattle, Big Rapids (MI), Mt. Pleasant (MI), Tucson, Dearborn, Phoenix, East Lansing, Detroit, Ann Arbor, Albuquerque, Toledo, Columbus (OH), Ames (IA), Cleveland, Fairmont (WV), Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Bethlehem (PA), Fairfax (VA), Carlyle (PA), State College (PA), Minneapolis, Gainesville, Nashville, Miami, Memphis, Orlando, Salem (OR), Jacksonville, Tampa, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Madison, Green Bay, Las Vegas, Reno, Denver, and, of course, Tallahassee, Florida. Others will be posted later.

While on the road, I will try to keep my blog up-to-date and post some pictures we take in each city. The three campuses on the tour which register the most students to vote (or who have the most non-voters committing to me to vote) will receive a special scholarship from us at the end of the tour.

Thanks, in advance, to everyone out there who is working hard during this election. I know it will make a difference.

Let's leave no non-voter behind.


Michael Moore

P.S. Good news! This current weekend our distributor has added an astounding 600 new theaters to the list of those still showing "Fahrenheit 9/11." This is highly unusual for a film entering it's fourth month of release, but the demand has been strong to bring it back in many areas and our wonderful distributors have responded. This is a perfect time to either see it again on the big screen or take a friend who hasn't seen it, as it won't be around in theaters for long. The DVD and home video come out October 5!
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#3978 donquijote


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 05:13 PM

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#3979 Bader


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Posted 26 September 2004 - 07:52 PM

Howdy Woj:

I remember DonQ asking the question, would there be more incidents of terrorism like Beslan and I said there would be more.
I suggested some time back that the invasion of Iraq would lead to an increase in terrorism through the Chechnia absess to shrink
Russias sphere of power.

Thank President Carters National Security Advisor, a Pole for that.
It may well have come out of a think tank he chaired or was party to but he gave it the kiss of life (death). Every nations got them.

The Beslan target smacks of a personal attack on Putin, not just
an act of war on Russia. Joe Vialls makes a good case re the oil and gas and the political games over Georgia relating to the supply routes of the same. I wouldnt exclude the Yukos matters
as being outside all this which brings in the Israeli interests and the personal revenge.

The Anglo-Saxon angle can relate to the dominant money factor and the threat of a shift of world power to UE. The Anglos obviously dont own the dollar and the sterling, they are the common ethnics that serve the Wall St-City of London empire which could collapse if they loose control of the decision making re-supply and price and the currency used in the global oil industry. One could say they are trying to save the dollar, to save their personal power. If the point of gravity shifts to the Euro so does the most powerful positions and money, the think tanks etc. Under them is the power structures of the two main political parties in both the US and the UK and all the big businesses circling around them all wanting to be fed on the tasteir scraps left over by the lion.
But the puppeteer also owns the Euro so too bad for the US because the Brits can suddenly have a change of heart and join the Euro.

IN short this may be a 'jump now' ploy to get Putin trapped in the Euro. No prize, for getting back at the Anglos who are only pupets trying to be loyal to their masters. I think he is a lot smarter than that.

There was a plan that was devised way back in the last stages of the second world war that the big shots of Germany had to concider what their future would be after the war. One plan was to infiltrate the Russian world to build a new Russian-German
power base that would eventually expell the US out of Europe
and become a rival world power. The Puppeteer has been around a long time.

If the Germans can woo Russia into the Euro they (G) will be fattest puppet in the middle, but Putin would know that the Germans were part of the action that did to Jugoslavia what now threatens Russia.

An alternative is to support the idea of a common market over Islam which create a third block besides the dollar and the Euro
and likely control the oil and gas vital to both the others. This would create a true balance of power/trade and the Islamic influence could help end the Chechen problems. But it could also unit the dollar and the Euro in Iraq and expand from there.
But a war has been declared on Russia anyway.
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#3980 woj1@cyberonic.


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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:04 AM

Originally posted by donquijote
Well, he may as well SAVE America once and for all.

(The "flyer" has been tested thousands of times, and includes "the problem" as well as "the solution" in a language people like--imaginative, plain and simple... A solution that can really save America--HERE AND NOW...):cool:

NOTE: I'm forwarding a copy of this to Michael Moore...
The DVD and home video come out October 5!

Snowboarding Magazine recently asked its readers whether or not John Kerry
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