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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#3981 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:14 AM

Originally posted by koti
"My struggle is not against the puppet, but against the puppeteer"

PUPPET ON A STRING
ON A PIPE LINE

Oil, so to speak
Black Gold.
Texas Gold.
How sweet it is
Iraq oil even sweeter. :D



Strings moving puppet are made of $$$$.

Everybody dances to those strings...;)

PS: Only hope lies in the proles.

Chavez offers stability in oil market

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has said that the stability of the international oil market will be guaranteed.
The Venezuelan president made the remarks in anticipating his victory in the recall referendum before thousands of his supporters at the headquarters of the government.

Venezuela, one of the founders of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), is the fifth largest exporter of crude oil in the world.

According to the preliminary results released by the National Electoral Council, Chavez won 58.25 percent of the 94.4 percent of the votes in the referendum.

http://en.ce.cn/Worl...7_1532378.shtml
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#3982 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:33 AM

Originally posted by donquijote
PS: Only hope lies in the proles.



QUESTION:
Im confused why winston would say that the hope lies in the proles or something of that sort. Why would he say this? I still have to read the rest of Book 3. I know that he sais the Proles are the only true people in the book because they are their own people. Any help would be appreciated.

ANSWER:
Here's the deal: Pretty much every revolution in history has been started by the middle class, with the help of the less educated lower class backing them up. Winston realizes that the "proles" or Proletarians, make up the majority of the population of Oceania. Thus, although the middle class, or Outer Party, may be intellectual enough to see through the facade and start a revolution, the proles are the ones who have to do the actual physical uprising in order for it to be successful. Thus, Winston keeps his journal for posterity, hoping someday the proles will rise up and overthrow the Party.

http://barronsbookno...ic&f=1&t=000260
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#3983 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:55 AM

Originally posted by koti
NOT everybody dances to 'those strings'.
Wrong on that one. :mad:

Chavez...
Right on that one. :D



You must dance to those strings unless you got your own water well.

Venezuela got no water well, but oil well. It's easy that way, and it depends on those strings.

True water well is based on coops and it's not connected to the strings.;)
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#3984 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Bader
Howdy Woj:

I remember DonQ asking the question, would there be more incidents of terrorism like Beslan and I said there would be more.

If the Germans can woo Russia into the Euro they (G) will be fattest puppet in the middle, but Putin would know that the Germans were part of the action that did to Jugoslavia what now threatens Russia.

But a war has been declared on Russia anyway.



Joh Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovsky
1857-1935, U.S.S.R.was Russian research scientist in aeronautics and astronautics who pioneered rocket and space research and the development and use of wind tunnels for aerodynamic studies. He was also among the first to work out the theoretical problems of rocket travel in space.
Tsiolkovsky was from a Polish family . :)
Wernher von Braun German engineer who played a prominent role in all aspects of rocketry and space exploration, German Vergeltungswaffen-2 ( V-2 rocket, ) or A-4, German ballistic missile of World War II, the forerunner of modern space rockets and long-range missiles.
Developed in Germany from 1936 through the efforts of scientists led by Wernher von Braun, it was first successfully launched on October 3, 1942.
Countries which have knowledge to move in space don
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#3985 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:44 AM

Originally posted by koti
Yes to dance, but not to take over the dance floor. :D



Lions dance and take the whole floor. And to make matters worse, they step on everbody's toes. That's the problem...:mad:

"Mr. Bush doesn't seem to care that by using Mr. Allawi as a puppet in his campaign"

Well, here we got a "prima ballerina" who dances to the money strings.

But really, the democratic puppet show is necessary for the King of the Jungle to refute any allegations he's a tyrant...;)

"Bush officials, who proclaim themselves so altruistic about bringing liberty to Iraq, really see Iraq in a creepy narcissistic way: It's all about Mr. Bush's re-election."

Dance of the Marionettes
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 26, 2004

It's heartwarming, really.

President Bush has his own Mini-Me now, someone to echo his every word and mimic his every action.

For so long, Mr. Bush has put up with caricatures of a wee W. sitting in the vice president's lap, Charlie McCarthy style, as big Dick Cheney calls the shots. But now the president has his own puppet to play with.

All last week in New York and Washington, Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of Iraq parroted Mr. Bush's absurd claims that the fighting in Iraq was an essential part of the U.S. battle against terrorists that started on 9/11, that the neocons' utopian dream of turning Iraq into a modern democracy was going swimmingly, and that the worse things got over there, the better they really were.

It's the media's fault, the two men warble in a duet so perfectly harmonized you wonder if Karen Hughes wrote Mr. Allawi's speech, for not showing the millions of people in Iraq who are not being beheaded, kidnapped, suicide-bombed or caught in the cross-fire every day; and it's John Kerry's fault for abetting the Iraqi insurgents by expressing his doubts about our plan there, as he once did about Vietnam.

"These doubters risk underestimating our country and they risk fueling the hopes of the terrorists," Mr. Allawi told Congress in a rousing anti-Kerry stump speech for Bush/Cheney, a follow-up punch to Mr. Cheney's claim that a vote for John Kerry is a vote for another terrorist attack on America.

First the Swift boat guys; now the swift dhow prime minister.

Just as Mr. Cheney, Rummy and the neocons turned W. into a host body for their old schemes to knock off Saddam, transform the military and set up a pre-emption doctrine to strike at allies and foes that threatened American hyperpower supremacy, so now W. has turned Mr. Allawi into a host body for the Panglossian palaver that he believes will get him re-elected. Every time the administration takes a step it says will reduce the violence, the violence increases.

Mr. Bush doesn't seem to care that by using Mr. Allawi as a puppet in his campaign, he decreases the prime minister's chances of debunking the belief in Iraq that he is a Bush puppet - which is the only way he can gain any credibility to stabilize his devastated country and be elected himself.

Actually, being the president's marionette is a step up from Mr. Allawi's old jobs as henchman for Saddam Hussein and stoolie for the C.I.A.

It's hilarious that the Republicans have trotted out Mr. Allawi as an objective analyst of the state of conditions in Iraq when he's the administration's handpicked guy and has as much riding on putting the chaos in a sunny light as they do. Though Mr. Allawi presents himself as representing all Iraqis, his actions have been devised to put more of the country in the grip of this latest strongman - giving himself the power to declare martial law, bringing back the death penalty and kicking out Al Jazeera.

Bush officials, who proclaim themselves so altruistic about bringing liberty to Iraq, really see Iraq in a creepy narcissistic way: It's all about Mr. Bush's re-election.

As The Chicago Tribune reported, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage alleged that Iraqi insurgents have stepped up their bloody attacks because they want to "influence the election against President Bush."

At a recent G.O.P. fund-raiser, House Speaker Dennis Hastert claimed that terrorists would be happier with a Kerry presidency. "I don't have data or intelligence to tell me one thing or another," he said, but "I would think they would be more apt to go" for "somebody who would file a lawsuit with the World Court or something rather than respond with troops."

Faced with their dystopia, the utopians are scaling back their grand visions for Iraq's glorious future.

Rummy suggested last week that a fractional democracy might be good enough. "Let's say you tried to have an election, and you could have it in three-quarters or four-fifths of the country, but some places you couldn't because the violence was too great," he said at a hearing on Capitol Hill, adding: "Nothing's perfect in life."

At a Pentagon briefing on Friday, Rummy also blew off Colin Powell's so-called Pottery Barn rule that if we broke Iraq, we own it. "Any implication that that place has to be peaceful and perfect before we can reduce coalition and U.S. forces, I think, would obviously be unwise, because it's never been peaceful and perfect," he said. "It's a tough part of the world."

As he said after the early looting in Iraq: "Stuff happens."
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#3986 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:39 AM

Originally posted by koti
I guess, on the one string. are too many puppets.

The strings are getting tangled up and the puppeteer gona have to put his/her hands down to try to untangle, but at the risk of being exposed. :D



Right, that's only time he comes out from behind the curtains. Every time the puppets get entangled he shows up.

Otherwise you follow the money strings to get to the puppeteer.;)
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#3987 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 04:43 AM

Originally posted by koti
Yous ain't talkin' 'bouts 'dat der Adam boy Smith ;

And 'dem IMF boys, on de oder hand .? :mad:

Eh ?

Now, don't yous go pulling a fast one on littlebitty me !!!

:confused:



I chose to give it a happy ending, just like in the official media.;)

But I just can't figure out why kids start crying when the hear the story. Just like in this other one...

LIFE'S NO PICNIC

"Don't worry," said the soccer mom trying to calm the crying little girl, "mommy is here."

Then she put her in the gas-guzzling SUV and--after nearly killing a neighbor in his bicycle--went to McDonald's for a Happy Meal. "You know what," said the mother, "I'll take you for a picnic to the park." And so she took the still sobbing girl to the lifeless, polluted lake nearby. "Hey, let's listen to some music," the mom said. And the news on the radio came on: "Another American soldier killed in Iraq," and then, "Orange Alert for America." "Don't you worry, little one," reassured the soccer mom, quickly changing the station. And the girl cried once again...
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#3988 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 05:58 AM

Originally posted by koti
Adam Smith (1723 July 17, 1790) was a Scottish economist and philosopher. He is famous for his influential book The Wealth of Nations and is generally thought of as the father of modern economics and capitalism.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Adam_Smith

Quote from Book: "The Theory of Moral Sentiments"
...They are led by an invisible hand to make nearly the same distribution of the necessaries of life, which would have been made, had the earth been divided into equal portions among all its inhabitants, and thus without intending it, without knowing it, advance the interest of the society, and afford means to the multiplication of the species. When Providence divided the earth among a few lordly masters, it neither forgot nor abandoned those who seemed to have been left out in the partition. These last too enjoy their share of all that it produces. In what constitutes the real happiness of human life, they are in no respect inferior to those who would seem so much above them. In ease of body and peace of mind, all the different ranks of life are nearly upon a level, and the beggar, who suns himself by the side of the highway, possesses that security which kings are fighting for..."
http://www.econlib.o...Smith/smMS.html


The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is an international organization responsible for managing the global financial system and for providing loans to its member states to help alleviate balance of payments problems. Part of its mission is to help countries that experience serious economic difficulties. In return, the countries who are helped are obliged to launch certain "reforms," such as privatizations of government enterprises.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMF

Just adding on, for the little girl to read when she grows up abit. So as to stop crying. :P



Perhaps the girl senses instinctively what's wrong with the world: The indifference toward the fellow human being. Today is the turn of the guy in the bicycle, or the victims of war in a distant land, tomorrow it's us.

And neither the concerns of Adam Smith nor the imperialistic policies of the IMF, will change things around. Perhaps they fail precisely because those theories are wrong by design. They only encourage the worst side of the human being--competition--without leaving any room for the better side--COOPERATION.

If, on the other hand, both competition and cooperation competed on a level field, then things would balance out.

At that point the girl senses a better, fair, safe world and stops crying...:cool:
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#3989 Bader

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:20 AM

invisible until too many strings get tangled.
Even the strings arent invisible anymore. Ask the Argentinians
about how altruistic the IMF is.

The famous names like Adam Smith that are endlessly referred to are the ones money promoted. The ones the media, academia and the politicians never refer to are the ones that bother the Lion.

When are Americans going to get serious about getting serious about the Iraq war.
Moore goes on about perferctly legal business interests of the Bushs and Saudis as though it was unusual in todays world or the only saidis and Americans who have done business to gether.
Maureen Dowd goes on about Alawi and the Bush election campaign.
Why arent they telling the American public about the 'nuking' of their own forces in Iraq by DU and ask who is going to replace the hundreds of thousands of walking dead in a few short years.
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#3990 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:19 AM

Originally posted by koti
OK,

However,

I think the underlying worst side of the human being is GREED.



"What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many" -M.L. King

Greed may be associated with the few, and Indifference with the many, so the latter may be the key to getting rid of the jungle. Greed also may be the consequence of the jungle, subject to be left behind, say, in a coop, in a state of plenty for all. IMHO, Indifference is the ultimate cause of violence.

Some day, I hope, it may become punishable by law, or reason enough to be deported to a special place for them. Oh, we should send there too those who enjoy spoiling everybody else's day or just roar for the hell of it.;)
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#3991 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Bader
invisible until too many strings get tangled.
Even the strings arent invisible anymore. Ask the Argentinians
about how altruistic the IMF is.

The famous names like Adam Smith that are endlessly referred to are the ones money promoted. The ones the media, academia and the politicians never refer to are the ones that bother the Lion.


I think the puppeteer barely got any time to hide the hand nowadays. His puppets are getting entangled all the time, and he must show up. As the lie becomes plainly visible, even to kids, he turns toward bribing and intimidating adults.

It works beautifully. All puppets dance to the same tune. "Dance Macabre," I call it...;)
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#3992 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:42 AM

Originally posted by koti
Oh,

By the way,
spaghetti can be very slippery and gets tangled up.

I like to chop it up to 2" +/- pieces even before I cook it. :P

'spaghetto' = Italian
'spago' = cord, string



They never get entangled to me. Do you put oil in it? Perhaps Alberto from Italy can lend us a hand here. I know they don't brake it up, and it would be embarrasing to do like the puppeteer and show up at the dinner table to disentangle the spaghetto.;)
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#3993 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Bader
invisible until too many strings get tangled.

When are Americans going to get serious about getting serious about the Iraq war.
Why arent they telling the American public about the 'nuking' of their own forces in Iraq by DU and ask who is going to replace the hundreds of thousands of walking dead in a few short years.



Bader, You know the answer .
US are created by the groups of unfamiliar , alien people. Nothing to connect but everything to divide.
No one sees the problem when people loose their home from hurricanes ; just simply opportunities for work and earning some extra money.
Similar prospect for pharmaceutics industries are created by the sick peoples; chance of bigger income for stockholders.
So where is the problem?
In contrary ,even pack of dinosaurs or wolves have equal division of duties and rewords., but not US citizens.

Only blood connections creates true bonds between people. Slavs unite!:)
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#3994 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:26 PM

Guys, hey, don't forget to vote/give opinions on Michael Moore, to put pressure on him...

Even if you don't like him, you find options for that.

http://engforum.prav...?threadid=98461
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#3995 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 02:26 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<Threatening the Slavs? But how to expect from Cuban American(?) to understand Slav spirit and to remember and how many Russians die to win in Stalingrad. Slavs have already existed three thousand years and will go on unless new meteorite on September 29 will raze out life from the earth-... >

Howdy Woj, though you come very aggressive...:confused:

It certainly is not a "threat" since I only use words to make my point. But I excuse it on your IQ...;)



SEATTLE - Seismologists believe there's an increased likelihood of a hazardous event at Mount St. Helens due to a strengthening series of earthquakes at the volcano. Initially, hundreds of tiny earthquakes that began Thursday morning had slowly declined through Saturday. By Sunday, however, there had been more than 10 temblors of magnitude 2.0 to 2.8, the most in a 24-hour period since the last dome-building eruption in October 1986, Scott said.
The quakes have occurred at depths less than one mile below the lava dome within the mountain's crater. Some of the earthquakes suggest the involvement of pressurized fluids, such as water or steam, and perhaps magma.
Mount St. Helens is about 55 miles northeast of Portland, Ore.
The portion of the mountain blew out during the May 18, 1980, eruption that left 57 people dead, devastating hundreds of square miles around the peak and spewing ash over much of the Northwest.
http://story.news.ya...__helens_quakes

If you think Earth is a mess, consider the turmoil in the constellation Hydra, where astronomers have spotted two monster galactic clusters slamming together in one of the biggest collisions ever recorded.

The cosmic smash-up poses no danger to Earth -- it is located about 800 million light-years away and the galaxies involved tend to speed by each other without crashing -- but our own Milky Way could be on a similar collision course in a few billion years.

Astronomers who observed the violent merger said on Thursday it could be likened to the clash of two particularly strong weather fronts on Earth.

http://story.news.ya...__helens_quakes

Spaghetti lovers, unfortunately, are not interested in space events.:)
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#3996 donquijote

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:03 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
If you think Earth is a mess, consider the turmoil in the constellation Hydra, where astronomers have spotted two monster galactic clusters slamming together in one of the biggest collisions ever recorded.

The cosmic smash-up poses no danger to Earth -- it is located about 800 million light-years away and the galaxies involved tend to speed by each other without crashing -- but our own Milky Way could be on a similar collision course in a few billion years.

Astronomers who observed the violent merger said on Thursday it could be likened to the clash of two particularly strong weather fronts on Earth.

http://story.news.ya...__helens_quakes

Spaghetti lovers, unfortunately, are not interested in space events.:)



People need to have a full stomach and peace on Earth before they can relax looking at the stars. That's why we need a revolution, the Spaghetti Revolution...:cool:

While the jungle is ignored, 99.9% of the scientific community is looking at the sky. Needless to say, the latter profession is so much safer. But big money is going up in the sky, perhaps the ultimate Puppet Show...

You too like looking at the sky?;)
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#3997 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 01:32 AM

Greenlanders have long felt that along with Denmark, the US, with its military base at Thule in the northwestern part of the island, has too much say over their internal affairs. "Washington recognizes us as an equal partner, which is not yet the case with Denmark," he added, pointing out that US President George W. Bush after taking power in 2001 had even sent a letter requesting closer cooperation on the Thule base and other issues directly to Greenland's local government, and not, as tradition dictates, through Copenhagen. It is of course uncertain whether true independence would help Greenland shake off its problems, and many of the island's inhabitants worry that bowing too low to US requests on the Thule base, which served as a key listening post during the Cold War, and which is now considered an essential part of Washington's plans for a controversial missile defense program, could cause additional headaches.
"But we haven't said 'yes' to the use (of modernized radar installations) in this missile defense system, which would call for new negotiations," http://news.yahoo.co...us_040926232052
Funny is that Denmark bowed to US demands to join attack on Yugoslavia and Iraq and didn't accept Euro monetary system. Now Denmark put herself in @compromised@ position. :)
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#3998 donquijote

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 05:28 AM

Originally posted by koti
Nope,
good one; so's the site.

Now, back to the puppet business:

Now then, if the puppets keep suking on the 'money' strings for long enough, won't they get pretty darn heavy ?

Then you'd need a stronger string - like a rope. No ?

But, if and when the rope tangles up, they'd hang themselves.

What's the puppeteer gonna do then, to keep the show business going on, so as to prevent the audience from demanding their money back ? Eh ?

:confused:



Puppets are in great supply. But public realizes puppet show is too expensive. The key is to reveal the guy behind the curtains...;)
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#3999 donquijote

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 12:41 AM

Originally posted by koti
Is a battle looming for control of the oil strings ? :confused:


INTERNATIONAL 09.21.2004 Tuesday

Saddam to Declare Candidacy for Iraqi Elections



Who knows, maybe he'll be the next puppet in Iraq in exchange for stability and cheap oil. They wished, but it's too late, I guess...:(

The oil strings can not be threatened though.:confused:
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#4000 donquijote

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 01:39 AM

Good question: Who's the puppet and who the puppeteer?

Well, this article seems to imply that, surprisingly, it's not who got the bigger banana, but who wags the banana better...;)

Sharon's banana republics

Bush and Blair have allowed Israel to dictate their Middle East policy and carry out a Palestinian politicide

Afif Safieh
Monday April 19, 2004
The Guardian

The study of American-Israeli relations has preoccupied two generations of scholars. Two competing schools of thought addressed the "who wags whom" debate. The first school spoke of "an American Israel", with the United States dictating to the local ally its regional policy in accordance with the American global vision. Noam Chomsky wrote two decades ago that Washington was the contemporary Rome and Israel its regional belligerent, Sparta.

The second school projects the image of "an Israeli America", a complex relationship where the global superpower adopts the regional policy of its client state and integrates it in its global strategy. This is seen as a result of a powerful pro-Israel lobby that succeeded in turning "Capitol Hill into another Israeli-occupied territory".

I have always believed that both schools of thought were correct but at different moments in history, depending on the strength of the American president, how comfortable he is in the country and in Congress, and how comfortable the US is in the world.

After the horror of 9/11, when the predictable retaliation was being discussed, the pro-Israel lobby emerged as the "maximalist school", which wanted to expand the theatre of operations beyond Afghanistan to engulf Iraq, Syria and Libya. That lobby has grown accustomed to using one muscle too many and one pressure too far. The collusion between the US and Israeli agendas has put America on a collision course with the Arab World, which now perceives the US as Israel's belligerent Sparta and the aim of American foreign policy to be docility, not democracy.

Tony Blair has always had a more sophisticated approach than George Bush. Blair knew that military challenges and security threats needed political responses. That to win the battle of hearts and minds, the west had to be seen as engaged in resolving the Palestinian problem. The test and the extent of his influence in Washington depended on who Bush needed more: Blair internationally or Ariel Sharon domestically.

Last week was a sad moment for international diplomacy. The world's two most powerful leaders, Bush and Blair, caved in to the most unscrupulous politician in the Middle East, who was found to be "unfit for public office" by an Israeli inquiry committee after the massacres of Sabra and Shatila in 1982.

Sharon is not hiding his game. In a recent interview with the leading Israeli journalist Nahum Barnea, he said Israelis should see his plan of unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip not as a reward but as a punishment of the Palestinians. He announced that the Palestinians could operate neither a port nor an airport in Gaza, and that Israel intended to keep control of territorial water and airspace. Nor would they have control of the borders. He added that this would delay the discussion of a Palestinian state for many years. He forgot to mention was that Gaza, with its 1.3 million inhabitants, is only about 1% of historic Palestine.

Why Bush considered Sharon's intentions "courageous" and "a golden opportunity" can be explained by the electoral considerations of an embattled president. But I remain puzzled by Blair's enthusiasm for Sharon's machinations and his conviction that they are in harmony with the road map. He has more experience in power than Bush, is better advised, and electoral considerations in Britain run in the opposite direction. Opinion polls show a 2-1 ratio in favour of Palestinian aspirations as compared with the Israeli position. Debates in parliament, across the political divide, should encourage him to be more assertive. All indicationsshow that, on Palestine/Israel, Blair does not reflect the depth of feeling in Britain.

Sharon has been dealing with the US and Britain as though they were his own banana republics. To his intransigence they constantly respond with abdication of responsibility and self inflicted impotence. The way ahead under the road map would have been to secure a reciprocal cessation of violence that all Palestinian factions accept; pressure Sharon to couple a complete withdrawal from Gaza with a pull-out of the urban centres in the West Bank to allow the creation of a Palestinian state "with temporary frontiers"; and to make Palestinian elections possible - presidential, parliamentary and municipal - and pave the way for final-status negotiations.

None of that has been undertaken. Bush and Blair are allowing Israel to dictate what is possible. Sharon will pursue his policy of politicide, vandalising Palestinian society and the economy, and crushing any national representation and government. Despite Hamas's self-restraint since the assassination of Sheikh Yassin and its dialogue with other factions to minimise civilian deaths on both sides, he has pressed ahead with decapitating the Palestinian leadership by killing Abdul-Aziz Rantissi.

For years it has been my belief that the ideal US president for Middle East peace would be one who had the ethics of a Carter, the popularity of a Reagan and the strategic audacity of a Nixon. Alas, we have a president who has the ethics of a Nixon, the popularity of a Carter and the intellectual agility of a Reagan.

http://www.guardian....1194704,00.html
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