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#4161 Bader

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 08:39 AM

Poland's former president Lech Walesa visits IWP

Start: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:30 PM
End: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 1:30 PM

Lech Walesa, former president of Poland, visited the Institute of World Politics where he gave a personal look at the implosion of the Soviet empire and an optimistic view of his country's future as a staunch American ally within a united Europe.

Reflecting on his days under communist military rule when, as a shipyard electrician, he led the Solidarity movement that organized and mobilized millions of Polish citizens in nonviolent resistance, Walesa warned of danger from totalitarian Belarus, increasingly authoritarian Russia, and a corrupt and collapsing Ukraine.

Much work remains to be done, Walesa said in his September 22 talk, to prevent those countries from falling into a permanent netherworld of neo-Soviet dictatorship. He predicted that Poland would play an increasingly important role in European and trans-Atlantic affairs.

Taken from site of Institute of World Politics, via UKUSA.org

Looks like Poland has found a new orbit, an Anglo-Saxon one Woj.
They appear to look to playing an important role in winning the nations mentioned into the same universal complex.
Is there a tug-o-war with France and Germany?
IE a Trans-Atlantic empire (NY to the Urals) v a Euroasian Empire from the Atlantic to the Urals and beyond.
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#4162 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Bader
Lech Walesa, former president of Poland, visited the Institute of World Politics where he gave a personal look at the implosion of the Soviet empire and an optimistic view of his country's future as a staunch American ally within a united Europe.

Reflecting on his days under communist military rule when, as a shipyard electrician, he led the Solidarity movement that organized and mobilized millions of Polish citizens in nonviolent resistance, Walesa warned of danger from totalitarian Belarus, increasingly authoritarian Russia, and a corrupt and collapsing Ukraine.

Looks like Poland has found a new orbit, an Anglo-Saxon one Woj.
They appear to look to playing an important role in winning the nations mentioned into the same universal complex.
Is there a tug-o-war with France and Germany?



Last Friday Polish government secured its stay in power to next May, winning with self-defense 8 votes..
After that not many members from existing parliament will stay one moment more. Government is under suspicion that accepted Russian bribe regarding selling the Polish strategic oil refinery . It means that the same time the members of Polish government are selling Poland to Russia and West.
Regardless what one may say Poland is loosing its sovereignty to Germany because Germany steadily and gradually owns everything in Poland.
US-Anglo-Saxon makes bad blood when pressing Poland to send military on US Iraq war. Anyway their influence in Poland and Europe becomes less and less meaningful, because beggars can not influent for long.:)
They seed the hate. For example trying to steer the election on Byelorussia, when every body in Poland would referrer Lukashenka for Polish president to president Kwasniewski. Lukaszenko doesn
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#4163 donquijote

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Bader
Representatives are bound by party policy.
If you vote for a party candidate you submit yourself to the dictates of a handful of people in a party that only numbers in thousands. THis is not democracy. It was designed to subvert democracy and upurp the power of the people.
Govt was formed by the people, the people are the creators not the servants.



Howdy Bader
Yeah, but there's a possibility however slim that the candidate--though representing the parties' laws, ie. the law of the jungle--will turn out good, and you always mention J.F. Kennedy as one of those. And if you introduce the COMPETITION factor into the game, plus you demand they are part of the community they represent, you may see some miracles happening, like the lion getting tamed...;)
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#4164 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Bader
Representatives are bound by party policy.
If you vote for a party candidate you submit yourself to the dictates of a handful of people in a party that only numbers in thousands. THis is not democracy. It was designed to subvert democracy ....
Govt was formed by the people, the people are the creators not the servants.
IF your representative lived in your constituency he/she may be bound by the the party policy. In regards to parks that would be local govt which again is dictated by policy ...and



You are the prophet of US politics. US also believe that their distance choices are the most democratic; example ,Yeltsin in Russia , Adamkus (US citizen) in Lithuania , leader in Philippines , Mexico, Columbia etc. US also think that the presidents of the country should be not influenced locally.
Such presidents , US call them the populist presidents. :)

More on too close influence;
More men are willing to have sex with their bosses to get a promotion or a salary increase than women, a Belgian human resources weekly said on Friday. http://www.reuters.c...storyID=6516300
:)
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#4165 donquijote

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 06:03 PM

Originally posted by ALBatro
The problem is definitely the JUNKLE (Junk Jungle) INHABITANTS' RELATIONSHIPS (NO BONDING, BAD BONDING).
When SALT was $$$, there was the same or worse problems.

ALB.



I know, but SALT was scarce too. The key word is SCARCITY. So we better based our currency on something there's plenty of...Banana Dollar?;)

I bet you relationships in a kibbutz are more natural and free. And even if there's spantaneous bad bonding among people (there is), I believe PEOPLE SHOULD BE GROUPED BY AFFINITY. And also I believe in SEPARATION BETWEEN PREDATOS AND PREY. That's what's wrong with the jungle: EVERYBODY MIXED TOGETHER AND THE PREDATORS ON TOP.:(

If we get rid of the predators over us, and the bad-energy people among us, we'll be much closer to Paradise...:cool:
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#4166 Bader

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 06:33 PM

If you want to introduce the competition factor into the game, in politics, you have to have independant representatives. Then they will be dependant on keeping on side with their constituents.
If any party representative goes against the party line in favour of the constituents, they will become a lepper and replaced at the next election. They get outvoted anyway in the caucus or cabinet where the big decisions are made. You might as well try and pee up Niagra Falls.
At the end of the day its a money game as evident in US politics and their puppets around the world as Woj pointed out. And remember the Americans dont own the money power, they are the servants. The Anglo-Saxons are servants along with all those other WOJ can list and they can be dumped and others promoted in their place when it suits those who control the money, as happened to Britain.
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#4167 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 09:32 PM

75% of participated in today in parliamentary election and referendum supported the Lukashenka. Participation in election and referendum were 81%. 74 % voted to remove the constitutional limitation of presidency to two times.
http://info.onet.pl/...22,12,item.html
West criticizes that referdum in Byelorussia as undemocratic where congratulates the Australian Howard his starting fourth term and the Egyptian Mubarak when he run his uncontested fifth his 7 years term.
Democracy has no one name. . :confused:
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#4168 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Bader
The Anglo-Saxons are servants along with all those other WOJ can list and they can be dumped and others promoted in their place when it suits those who control the money, as happened to Britain.



Although my constant critics of Britain, I can not admit that average British is a list corruptive than any citizens in any country I met. . Therefore I am convinced that the UK will overcome the problem with these who control the money.

proof ; Thousands of anti-war and anti-globalization activists marched through central London and filled Trafalgar Square on Sunday to protest the U.S.-led coalition's presence in Iraq. While the forum discussed a range of issues concerning privatization and globalization, the march was almost overwhelmingly devoted to opposition to the war in Iraq and the Bush administration. http://story.news.ya...in_iraq_protest :)
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#4169 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 02:30 AM

Originally posted by koti
Various levels of politics.

Municipal/City
State/Provincial
National/Federal

Why the heck should a 'National/Federal' politician have to live locally at 'municipal/city' level ?


:confused:


Howdy Koti
OK, let's go to the specifics of it. The local politicians must live in the worst area they represent. It's only fair, and besides, how could they otherwise know the needs of their constituency? If you live in the community however you know what's going and you'll try to lift yourself up as well as those around you. It's only human nature.;)

Now, since we propose a DECENTRALIZED system of government, the central government would have a smaller power share, and thus would be less of a concern in ever becoming an expensive dinosaur or a belligerent lion.:(

This is best exemplified in Switzerland.
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#4170 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Bader
If you want to introduce the competition factor into the game, in politics, you have to have independant representatives. Then they will be dependant on keeping on side with their constituents.
If any party representative goes against the party line in favour of the constituents, they will become a lepper and replaced at the next election. They get outvoted anyway in the caucus or cabinet where the big decisions are made. You might as well try and pee up Niagra Falls.



I get you point, Bader, but remember the lion can be tamed with the whip of the law as well. And if the constituents vote in referendum and mandate the politicians give up their comfy life in their fortified dens and live in the deep jungle, the foxes will stay away. The little animals will know then 'who's who' in the jungle...;)

And then the big parties will be challenged from below. That's what I call DEMOCRACY.:cool:
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#4171 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 04:07 AM

I bet you this guy is real. Chinua Achebe is a renowned novelist. One thing is talking about the lions in other places, and another is challenging one's own and rejecting an award. The message of his most famous novel, Things Fall Apart, is anti-lion too...

Nigerian Literary Icon Rejects Government Award

Sun Oct 17, 7:02 PM ET World - Reuters

LAGOS (Reuters) - One of Africa's most prominent literary icons, Chinua Achebe, has rejected a national honors award from his government in Nigeria in protest at the "dangerous" state of the country, newspapers reported on Sunday.

Achebe, who achieved worldwide acclaim for his 1958 novel "Things Fall Apart" and his criticism of the Nigerian political class in "The Problem With Nigeria," rejected the award in a two page letter addressed to President Olusegun Obasanjo.

"Nigeria's condition today under your watch is, however, too dangerous for silence. I must register my disappointment and protest by declining to accept the high honor awarded me," he told Obasanjo in his letter, published in part in the Guardian newspaper.

Obasanjo's administration has been criticized heavily over the last year by civil society figures, who accuse the former military ruler of presiding over a "civilian dictatorship."

Many Nigerians say poverty, crime, corruption and violence have increased since Obasanjo's election as a civilian president in 1999.

Ethno-religious violence stoked by politicians within Obasanjo's ruling People's Democratic Party (PDP) has rocked the country this year, killing hundreds and prompting Obasanjo to assume emergency powers in one of Nigeria's 36 states.

Rebel warlords backed by political figures have also threatened to destabilize the country's vast oil wealth.

In his letter, Achebe said he was particularly dismayed by the events in his state of Anambra where political infighting led to the brief abduction of the state governor by political rivals last year.

Nigeria's other literary giant and Nobel Laureate, Wole Soyinka, criticized the government earlier this year and warned that Nigeria was heading for a "violent implosion."

***

Chinua Achebe's narrative novel, Things Fall Apart, was first published in 1958. The setting is eastern Nigeria in the late 1800s and early 1900s, just prior to and during the British expansion into Umuofia. The theme is that of the struggle and transformation of the traditional Igbo society while under British colonialism. This theme is conveyed by illustrating major events in the life of Okonkwo, a respected tribal leader.

Okonkwo lives a successful life by Igbo standards and is well-respected by his tribesmen, until he accidentally takes the life of one of his clansmen and is banished from the village. After seven years, Okonkwo returns to his village to find it is now subject to colonial laws. Additionally, he finds that his tribe's religious beliefs are rapidly being replaced by Christianity. Okonkwo is opposed to these new practices and struggles to put a stop to the destruction of his Igbo culture. Okonkwo attempts to rally his tribesmen, but finds little support. The tribe is divided, and only a few people continue to defend the Igbo ways. Some have already freely embraced Christianity, while yet others have simply given in to the "white man's" new ways.

In a moment of anger and frustration, Okonkwo kills a messenger from the British District Officer. This final attempt to defend his Igbo world and impress upon his people the need to fight back against the invading European colonialism wins him no support whatsoever. Okonkwo, unable to defend his culture alone and unable to accept the change, hangs himself.
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#4172 Bader

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 08:00 AM

You'r a gentleman and a scholar Woj.
Their culture and values have been under attack and deminishing
for the last three hundred years. It has spread to the US where it
is becoming quite cancerous. Its easier to know you are under attack when the air-raid sirens are sounding and everyone is moving (together) into the shelters, lot harder to get people to unite by foot in peace time, but thats the historical cycle of the British, they clean-house and pull themselves up by the bootstraps and beat bigger forces when its war time but then when peace returns so do the foxes into the political system and the rot sets in all over again.
They are distinctly different from the US, who may not be anglo-saxon in the majority anymore anyway, even today, it shows in Iraq. I have read two accounts of British Officers in charge being
pushed by a US officer in the area of a higher rank to respond
to a certain happening with unprincipled bull-headed arrogance and the British officer has told them to go jump. One was in the first Iraq war and the other in the second.
Someone has to get their backs up to bring the bulldog out of them, hopefully Tony B-liar will do it.

Koti's response:

Well representatives usually live in a community somewhwere DonQ. They dont have condos adjacent to govt buildings.
The other point about peoples needs, the majority relate to national economic policy which are dictated by the international
bankers and the social policy is subordinate to economic policy,
so even if a large number of representatives lived in palaces in poor areas it wont effect the national budget.
I would rather prefer that the law was that the representatives and the economists be limited in salaries to the averge income of
the nation. That would give them an incentive to lift everyone up.

Tame the lion by the law? Remember the saying- I dont care who makes the laws if I am permitted to create the money. MOney controls the lawmaking. When people ascert their sovereignty and re-capture their money system (water well) they will control the polies/law makers.
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#4173 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Bader
... the majority relate to national economic policy which are dictated by the international
bankers and the social policy is subordinate to economic policy,
so even if a large number of representatives lived in palaces in poor areas it wont effect the national budget.
I would rather prefer that the law was that the representatives and the economists be limited in salaries to the averge income of
the nation.
I dont care who makes the laws if I am permitted to create the money.



Rockefeller might very easy gives up his West Virginia Democratic senator salary.
I just set him only as a example because his *rich* name.
I don
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#4174 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:21 PM

The government today announced that it is changing its emblem from an Eagle to a condom because it more accurately reflects the government's political stance. A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of *****s, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed. Man, it just doesn't get more accurate than that.
-------------
The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments in a Courthouse!
You cannot post "Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" and "Thou Shall Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians! It creates a hostile work environment.
--------------
ZERO GRAVITY - When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered that ball-point pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat this problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 billion developing a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside-down, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 C.

The Russians used a pencil.

Your taxes are due again--enjoy paying them
--------------
COWS Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that our government can track a cow born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she sleeps in the state of Washington. And they tracked her calves to their stalls. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our country.

Maybe we should give them all a cow.
------------
"They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years and hell, we're not using it anymore." ------
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#4175 Bader

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:37 PM

We're guna make this here democricy work even if I have to bribe every last voter!

Only people can breath life into democracy. What you have reported Woj is breathing death into a free society. The more gold on board theTitanik the faster it will sink.

You cant buy democracy anymore than enforce it on dead Iraqis and Soros cant see the difference between the two.
If Soros wanted democracy to win in the US, he should be making sure the issues get made public which the sham beat-up between
Democrats and Republicans, slapping each other with wet bus tickets, doesnt.
Air the real issues, the people then vote. The media mogals wont air the real issues, the two prostitute parties wont air the issues
and now big business and big noter Jews want to tell everyone to vote for Kerry. This is a one issue election- dont vote Bush.
And then there is the Moore movie. Kerry supposedly has won both debates and yet inspite of all this the polls show nothing!
Reminds me of the ADL making sure everyone run off to see the anti-semitic movie by Mel Gibson, by telling everyone how bad it is.
I think they are messing with the minds of America as they did on
Sept 11.
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#4176 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 07:45 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
The government today announced that it is changing its emblem from an Eagle to a condom because it more accurately reflects the government's political stance. A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of *****s, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed. Man, it just doesn't get more accurate than that.



Where you got all these clever comments from, Woj?

They are really funny and thought provoking...:D
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#4177 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Bader
We're guna make this here democricy work even if I have to bribe every last voter!


Reporting from the Jungle...

The Banana Republic puppet show is on with the voting. It was real funny though as I approched the voters standing in line with the proposition "Banana Revolution.":D

Some people took it (I only gave it to the little animals), but others knew instinctively that it would burst their democratic camouflage. Their Banana Republic offers hope of changing puppet but not puppeteer...;)
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#4178 donquijote

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 08:16 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
Therefore I would suggest that children of constituents should mandatory join the public school of voting area. :)



Woj, I know you liked the idea of mandating politicians to live in the worst of the areas they represent. It may not be a real solution, but it would be a lot of fun to see the foxes refusing to live in the 'pigsty' of the little animals. You know, the foxes really hate them, but use them at election time...;)

Their kids should be mixed too, once they live in the same area. And the poor should be allowed to join their private golf club, where there's no homeless loitering around. And they should be allowed to bring their kids with bicycles to ride in their beautifully-manicured lawns. That's democracy...:cool:
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#4179 donquijote

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 02:35 AM

Originally posted by koti
I was simply trying to discover , and am still, the human species drive for 'success'.

Within any system, what are the honest behaviours to achieve what one wants without exploitation of others. :confused:



The problem, my dear Koti, is the jungle. Everybody can't be on top. That's a reality of the jungle either in Congo or New York. And the reason why 30% can prey on the remaining 70% is simple and got little to do about their "superiority." The reason quite and simple is that the 70% don't have where to run. Logically their strength lies in numbers and in finding alternative ways to find their sustenance WITHOUT the lion. That's where the cooperatives kick in. That's the kind of COMPETITION the lion fears...;)
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#4180 donquijote

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 02:46 AM

Originally posted by koti
Amigo, I know that.

How to change the jungle to a forest. ?



Well, first you offer the banana to the lion, and see if he likes it. If not run for your life or...try organizing the little animals. You tell them that it's their indifference that makes the jungle possible, and that, while the lion may be satisfied for one day by eating you, then he'll come after them toworrow.

If that doesn't work either then you may consider kicking the lion out of your life, and let the little animals feed the lion one by one...;)
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