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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#721 donquijote

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 04:06 PM

// Cooperatives is the best solution. So good they could even compete with the lion's corporations on equal footing... //

<yes it is true, but...
Cooperatives which could compete with the lion's corporations on equal footing can only exist in uncorrupt societies.
How to provide and sustain uncorrupt societies in presence of the lion's corporations?
Which systems are more open for corruption; the democratic or totalitarian?>

Howdy Woj
Many cooperatives do compete with the capitalist corporations, among the major ones: kibbutz, moshavs (Israel), Mondragon (Spain), Danish coops, etc, etc...

The key to implementing them are:

-financing and taxation (Mondragon, for example, got their own banks)

-education (the Danish folk schools taught over a century ago that the lion was not necessary at all)

Nevertheless the fact of an unmasked lion could send many if not all running toward the coops, where there's no lion... So unless the lion himself was tamed he would have no little animals. It's a win-win situation...;)

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#722 donquijote

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 04:12 PM

Here's the lion at work... When he eats people's minds, their bodies can only work to feed the lion...;)

Big Fish Eat Little Fish (monopoly)
There are three companies that own most the radio stations in the US - EMMIS, Radio One and Clear Channel. Over the past two years the Clear Channel company has been on an acquisition binge, spending almost $30 billion on buying radio stations, concert venues and advertising companies. The company is building a "monopolistic multimedia empire" that has decreased competition, reduced consumer choice, and driven up ticket prices for concerts.

Prior to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, a radio company could only own 40 stations nationwide and only four in a particular market. Since that has changed Clear Channel now owns 1,170 radio stations nationwide! One out of every ten radio stations across the United States broadcasts under the Clear Channel-s banner and the company-s approximate 1,170 stations bill a full 20% of total industry revenue. Clear Channel broadcasts in every top ten market and in 47 of the top 50. These stations take to the airwaves across all 50 states, in almost every major market, reaching nearly every demographic. Clear Channel stations broadcast to over 110 million listeners every week.

Clear Channel also acquired SFX Entertainment, the world-s largest promoter and producer of live entertainment events, including concerts, theater and sporting events. Clear Channel now owns 135 venues, producing 26,000 shows last year (attended by 62 million people) - 70% of the total "live concert" market! Buying entertainment giant SFX cost Clear Channel $4.4 billion, making it instantly the nation's biggest promoter with $2 billion in live-event revenue a year.

Clear Channel Outdoor owns over half a million outdoor displays (770,000 billboards) around the world. This gives them and their customers the ability to, as they state on the Clear Channel website "reach over half of the entire U.S. population and over 75% of the entire U.S. Hispanic population". Outdoor is more than just billboards, other products they provide include; bulletins, posters, street furniture, airport displays, convenience store posters, mall displays, mass transit displays and mobile ads.
Now there's rumors that Clear Channel wants to start their own record label... hmmm. Think about it. They can play their artists on their radio stations, tour them in their venues and advertise them on their billboards.

What can you do? Support college & non-profit radio stations in your local area. These independent radio stations program alternative music as well as specialty shows (hip-hop, jazz, electronica etc.). Also support your local independent bars & clubs.

(snip)

In Conclusion (the end)
There are approximately 27,000 music titles released every year. Of the 7,000 "new" titles released every year by major labels less than 10% are profitable. Major record labels sign only what they hope will sell, jumping on the latest trend and flooding the market with sound-alikes. Everything radio and video shows play sound and look like they came off an assembly line. Major record companies focus on radio-friendly and videogenic acts and unfortunately exclude new and experimental artists and genres of music. Consumers have become lazy and in turn are easily brainwashed by what they hear on the radio, see on tv and read in magazines.

from thread...

http://engforum.prav...2512#post322512
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#723 donquijote

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 09:46 PM

First communism and then capitalism, Russia hasn't been very lucky...:confused:

Russia: Splendor and Miseries of the Social Split
08/11/2003 18:40

The split of the society is the most dramatic result of the recent transformations in Russia; this may entail even more serious negative consequences

The split of the society is the most dramatic result of the recent transformations in Russia; this may entail even more serious negative consequences, the director of the Institute for Social and Economic Problems of the Russian population in the Russian Academy of Sciences, Natalya Rimashevskaya says. "The present-day situation has no objective foundation: rich and very rich people didn't obtain money working hard; these people just took advantage of the situation and misappropriated things that never belonged to them."

About 36 million of Russians are living below the poverty line now; it makes one quarter of the Russian population and half of the group is children. About 35-40 per cent of Russia's population belongs to a group of indigent people. Incomes of the new poor are lower than the living wage officially fixed by the government. And this is at the time when the living wage makes up about one half of the living wage established for the year of 1991, at the period when the country experienced rather difficult circumstances as well. Natalya Rimashevskaya says that improvements "come slowly, almost insensibly".
She adds that the 30 per cent increase of the population's incomes which is often mentioned by the official statistics is in fact lies. This increase doesn't concern the real situation in the country but characterizes the living standard of the high-paid group of the population. The group makes up about 7 million people or 5 per cent of the whole of the Russian population. These are the people who build gorgeous villas, buy expensive cars and do shopping at luxurious boutiques where ordinary people never appear. This group of the population makes foreign and Russian experts wonder that the living standard has so considerably increased in Russia. The polarization of the society is even more serious that it emerged suddenly against the background of total pauperization when incomes of the majority of the population reduced two or three times. This fact aggravates the marginalization of the society that brings more and more Russian to the social bottom.

full text...

http://english.pravd...03_poverty.html
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#724 Bader

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 10:54 AM

Natalya Rimashevskaya's report/article could be responded to by saying welcome to the NWO.
The commonist stats I have seen seem to be standard, which results from the so-called "freemarket" revolution. I think I have given them before.
It's 5% own most of what is worth owning, 15% work for them
making the top 20% that are gaining. The 80% balance are
either treading water which is going backwards in time or clearly loosing. With poverty slowly moving up the 80%.
I recall a slapstick comedy, balck and white silent movie. I think it was Laurel and Hardy, in which they were in charge of a wood-fired steam engine pulling a train of numerousd carriages. After a while they noticed a modern fast train coming up from their rear
going a lot faster. Naturally they paniced and started firing up the engine to the max to avoid being demolished from behind.
Well pretty soon they ran out of wood in the woodcar. Further
panic. They they had the bright idea of chopping up the wooden carriages starting at the rear and feeding the material into the engine- meanwhile the train to the raear gets bigger and bigger. Pretty soon most of the carriages look like flatdeck
wagons and they aren't going fast enough anyway.
I have alway thought it was classic portrayal of the free-market
with the rich and secure riding in the front carriages and the further back the poorer until we get those in privation at the rear.
Poverty ( you can make this relative- going without what is available) moves up the line and eventually threatens the
comfortatble as the systems starts to breakdown as they are about to be overrun by reality portrayed by the express train at the rear.
Whats the difference between a train demolished bit by bit and one knocked off the track by another? Time.

You raised some good questons Woj1 re cooperatives.
I'll come back on that, I have to go
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#725 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:05 PM

Donquijote;
//Many cooperatives do compete with the capitalist corporations, among the major ones: kibbutz, moshavs (Israel), Mondragon (Spain), Danish coops, etc, etc...//;

I see Ethnic Unity of Slavs as a only way for Slavs to survive;

Slavs Unity is an essential requirement of Slavs countries and Slavs emigration everywhere for future continuation and existence.

Bader;
//the social split//;
Unfortunately situation you described for Russia exists in all Slavic countries.
In contrary to Muslims entities, Slavs has no religion which would bond them.
I know that Islam is also divided, mostly because of corruption
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#726 donquijote

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:22 PM

< If communism and capitalism are unconstructive or even harmful systems for the
Slavs entities what do you see as a solution?>

Howdy Woj
Exactly the proposal at the start of the thread...

http://webspawner.co...ers/donquijote1

But I can add this much, whatever the system and whatever the system we should reject the lion. Once and again he betrays the little animals... In that regard I see the realization of the dreams of Orwell, Kropotkin, Tolstoy, Gandhi, King, etc: the proles' revolution...;)

The hope lies with the proles!

PS: Guys, why don't we do a critical analysis of the solution? Not so much on the theoretical aspect--which we pretty much agree on--but on the practical aspect of it...
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#727 donquijote

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:26 PM

<Whats the difference between a train demolished bit by bit and one knocked off the track by another? Time.>

Howdy Bader
I liked your symbolism, very graphic. Capitalism is a train without brakes that falls apart bit by bit, though there's always the chance of a big explosion...:confused:

<You raised some good questons Woj1 re cooperatives.
I'll come back on that, I have to go >

OK, let's turn to the practicalities of it...
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#728 Bader

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 09:14 AM

I loved that one Donq,

But when the wheels start falling off it will be insplosion is my guess.
Yes good point we need to start talking about the practical side
which of course is not so easy as the philosophical side.
That is, the policy of the philosophy.
One way to deduce what someone is really getting to/at is to
extend the practicallity of what they are promoting and match the
product with the philosophy it fits because as in the
propoganda of the free-market you need to watch what they do not listen to what they say! To realise what it is really all about.
But first I want to respond to what Woj1 put to me and then I will
go back to the matter of coops as I said which will start to touch on practicalities.
Woj1, I didn't actually make any point regarding transport systems, if I understand you correctly,I merely used that which was in the movie to depict the modern game of global empire building. The train chasing was a modern one (movie made in thirties probably). I referred to it as reality which was going to run down a stupid and flawed system
like the free-market, which only seems to last for a burst anyway
and I suspect its global planners are again using it as a tool to
futher the development of a one world super-state.
One of the biggest results of the free-market is to render the
individual governments as local servants of the global regimes
now operating, which destroys their sovereignty and nationalism.
You appealed to a slavc commonwealth, so do I. The NWO
and the global regimes will not allow it unless it is a nafta or UE type creature, a domain of the Lion, as we have been saying.
See what has happened to Jugoslavia, broken up into dependant units and now Islam is having its turn. I believe it is happening to Islam because they have a common religion, a major natural resourse of global significance(oil) and a anti-usury banking system. ( in other words it has the potential to create an alternative that could cause nations to vote with their feet away from the Lion stripping him of power). (The natural factional
tendency of the Arabs has been substantially exploited by Israel and the U.S. anyway)
Slavs have four main religions, I don't belive they need a main common one. They are probably more capable of standing apart than Islam because of the military might of the
RF. In the main muslims and christians have lived in peace for
hundreds of years as far as I am aware. A commonwealth should be based on the cooperative principle not a central gov and a central bank like the UE. Reciprical trade agreements exist
without lose of sovereignty.
Do coops compete wih corps? Maybe locally. Whats the biggest coop? compare that with the biggest corps, I expect one is a pig and the other an elephant (sizes). But then on the other hand if
coops formed franchises in many nations producing quality goods
and services they could compete on a global scale. The main competitive factor for the corps is the cheap labour as in China
for example. But the Corps carry big financial costs. So the
coop has to be independant of the debt banking system for cheaper financial costs because if can't operate on pitance wages
as the owners are operating it. They can have retail franchises
so the public in various nations can know which goods weren't made by slave labour and many consumers will vote with their feet. Just like non-GE food. Catch a wave and the profit margins don't have to be great if the volumn of production/turnover is great.
Once coops catch on likewise people will vote with their feet away from the slave-labour factories to a coop and work for themselves- which is how the industrial revolution should have gone. Love to see big factories that were using slave labour as "ghost towns". Make good movie sets or coop trade fair venues!
No prizes for guessing the Lion will not be pleased to see a
revolution in coops.
The essence of the coop is SYNERGISM. which is to produce an
effect greater than the sum of the individual effects. This is high treason to the Lion. You must grasp this or miss the bus.
It has also been called "social credit" by a monetary reform movement that developed worldwide in the thirties as a response to the great Banking system crash red-herringly name the Great Depression. Note the historical label is about the
result of the banking crash which provides a nice cop-out for the
international bankers who have all governments scared that if they(politicians) interfer with the banking system it could cause
major problems!
The word "social" represents the people, who own the common wealth, and the credit is the monetarisable real and potential
wealth against which they can create money at no cost to themselves since it is their sovereign money and they own the wealth (real). The banks create figures on computers out of thin air and charge interest. It's not their credit (eg gold reserves)
and they only retain a fraction in reserve to back the majority!
Nice until there is a run on the banks like in the thirties.
The on going basis of wealth for the persons in the coop is their increment of association= social credit= synergism.
A number of people working alone can produce X respectively
varing according to their ability to work more quicker or slower
than the next. Put them together as an industrial coop with divisions of labour and they will produce far more than the total of
what they could produce seperately. That's a scientific fact.
In other words they get to keep the cream of their efforts.
What is common and determined is that the corporate provides
work, takes the increment-synergism and shares it with the banker who lent the money created out of nothing in the first place. Little wonder the union v capitalist Hegelian conflict
while the Lion sleeps soundly with a smile on his face.
The essence of what I have covered is what I believe is the essence of the answer of your question regarding if capitalism and communism have failed Russia what is the solution?
Com. and Cap. were the Hegelian twins of the international bankers. That stage is now passed.
What would happen is that peoples wealth (which gives them
power to be relatively independant and unexploitable) will naturally snowball, just as debt does in the other system giving power and control over government, economies and individuals
to the bankers and associate schemers.
I have said enough at this point.
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#729 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 12:33 PM

Donquijote; //Guys, why don't we do a critical analysis of the solution?//
/ //. Education should emphasize the learning of English -or Esperanto;//
As a Slav I opt for Esperanto. Esperanto was created by Polish linguist - Zamenhoff. But this is language is useful for only very simple communication.
Accepting English as a world language is accepting American and English culture as a world standard.
In my opinion common language just helps NOW to reign. Maybe different languages jare ust like high fences make countries good neighbors?
// health care should be the maximum priorities;// ;
Especially I stress an equal opportunity for health care treatment for all member of society.

Humanism is to ability to find something useful for EVERY member of society.
Nation which disposes their own members to garbage can of social margin, doesn
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#730 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 02:40 PM

Bader; donquijote
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#731 donquijote

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 05:18 PM

<But when the wheels start falling off it will be insplosion is my guess.>

Howdy Bader
You have produce one of best analysis around of both the problem and the solution...

Anyways, the example of the burning train is particularly apt because in an effort to make it go faster it threatens both the passengers and the train itself. In real life, capitalism--by requiring ever faster returns--threatens the survival of both people and Earth itself.

<The essence of what I have covered is what I believe is the essence of the answer of your question regarding if capitalism and communism have failed Russia what is the solution?
Com. and Cap. were the Hegelian twins of the international bankers. That stage is now passed.>

What can I say? A 100% agreement...

I'd like to add to the above that just as democracy offers a multiparty political system (which in practice amount to very little) we can expand it into the economics. We can have the full spectrum of if: from the coops to the maquiladoras, for those who can't live without the lion...;)

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#732 donquijote

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 05:24 PM

< As a Slav I opt for Esperanto. Esperanto was created by Polish linguist - Zamenhoff. But this is language is useful for only very simple communication.
Accepting English as a world language is accepting American and English culture as a world standard.
In my opinion common language just helps NOW to reign. Maybe different languages jare ust like high fences make countries good neighbors?>

Howdy Woj
I wouldn't have a problem with either so long as most people command a common language. As it is, people who command English--like you and I--have power.

Also remember what's the lingua franca among the most successful--and most independent--countries in the world: the Scandinavian countries...

Actually I'd argue that the banana republics are the ones that don't command English.

And last but not least, I'd say we should not fear British "cultural imperialism," for they have very high quality cultural programming and they themselves are probably the best fit to counter American trash culture--a mere 14% American programming on TV--versus other countries, where they may be tempted for it. Such was the case in the former USSR...:confused:

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#733 donquijote

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 11:50 PM

Can the stupid, hungry lion be tamed? Sure he can, provided there's someone willing to confront him...;)

Cleaner Air, Courtesy of California
Source: NYT

At a time when neither Congress nor the administration seems interested in significantly improving automobile efficiency, California has kept up the good fight and has now won an important victory. The Times's Danny Hakim reported this week that General Motors and DaimlerChrysler had agreed to drop their lawsuits against a California rule requiring automakers to produce millions of cleaner, more efficient "hybrid" vehicles
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#734 GIJOE

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 12:43 AM

What is the big deal about being number uno.

The U S is according to all reports around the world, the number one super power, As and American, I am concerned about the history of all nations that have achieved this status.

When you are on top of the mountain there is only one way left to go, and this is what concerns me.

We, the U S A that is, need to share our responsibilties, with other nations that have a major contribution to make to this world. Russia, with it s increadable potential.should ,and must be our ally. The reasons for such are far to numerous to name.
More important, should the Americans and the Russians get it
TOGETHER completely, Europe would be the counter balance,to most financial and international events. China, The chinese have always been brilliant at the balancing , This time they may be left hanging with no where to go.... I see the Chinese making
friends of the Africans and other third world nations, putting themselves at the top of that heap.

The deals you see of paper between the Russians and the Chinese are just that paper When it comes time to belly up to the bar, We'll see who on whos side.....


G I JOE
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#735 GIJOE

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 06:14 AM

based on the mall theory, wherby any country the U S A considers uniting with they must have and equal number of malls as us. At the current rate of growth Russia will not qualify until the year 4022, so ralax dude you ll be dust by then, or sooner hopefully.

G I JOE
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#736 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 01:21 PM

donquijote ; //progress not only on cleaner air but also on global warming and the nation's growing dependence on foreign oil.//

I project that US will be last in line of users of hydrogen-powered fuel-cell cars or bio-fuels.
You also must see big disproportion of money standing behind cleaner air and oil industry together with defense.
What money would substitute income of investors in defense industry? Some day the whole world will go away from fossil fuel and US will stay alone in competition for oil.
China leads in world with manufacturing production and doesn
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#737 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 02:03 PM

GIJOE;
All people love money because money give dignity, but the ways of accruing the finance are making big differences.
Perpetual wars rather bring US with alliances with Middle East, Europe will go with Russia because Russia is part of Europe for last 2000 years, and China will be orbiting around the glob in looking for best deal.
Of course it is one person opinion.
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#738 Buttersideup

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 03:36 PM

I project that US will be last in line of users of hydrogen-powered fuel-cell cars or bio-fuels."


I question that for one reason only. There will be stations to refill your hydrogen tanks. The initial costs will be extreme but "they" will still control the supply (and profit) of fuel.
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#739 GIJOE

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 03:44 PM

It is getting boring reading all this antiAmerican dribble, from war to polution to anything they can make up....

IT WOULD BE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR, IF ONE TIME I CAN TURN ON THIS CHAT LINE AND NOT FIND SOME FREAK,
BAD MOUTHING THE GOOD OLE U S A......

G I JOE
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#740 Buttersideup

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Posted 15 August 2003 - 04:23 PM

"Russia because Russia is part of Europe for last 2000 years,"

Technically yes...in spirit it has been its own unique people(s).
How has Europe treated Russia through history, would you say well? I wouldn't.
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