Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo

What would it take for Russia to be #1?


  • Please log in to reply
7545 replies to this topic

#801 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 20 August 2003 - 07:00 PM

Another spooky story...;)

<Lion eats Little Animals, Lion helps Lion...

"If you kill one person, you go to jail; if you kill 20, you go to an institution for the insane; if you kill 20,000, you get political asylum.">

Ghostman says:

Hahaha! Genius!

We had a problem with a lion too, back in Ghost Land.
I believe this one was worst than Amin, but that is just my personal grudge speaking.
He did not kill three hundred thousand citizens, but instead, he made the whole population in favor of the Lions without them knowing

If I say his name, this would show my nationality, I don't discuss it in the forum, so, I'll call him Citizen Kane, for that is one key word that refers to him.

The most powerrful citizen of Ghost Land, citizen Kane had a huge empire with all kinds of businesses, considered himself a journalist, but was in fact a billionaire businessman.

No man in our history, has ever influentiated so much our politics, he did so for decades.
Powerful and manipulative, he began his empire with a newspaper, some four decades ago. At that time, the media was only still developing in Ghost Land, and televisions sets were still rarity.

Quickly, in a few years, citizen Kane took control over the medias of communication, including newspapers, magazines, television and radio, by the 1990's his share of the tv transmissions were of 90%.
But he also had ventures that he dominated, such as the Music market, and the movie industry, to cite a few.

But the tv, is the most popular media of communication there to this day, for all the time he used his power of influence to brainwash the population and manipulate the masses according to his own interests.

The poor animals, however, were fooled to believe that citizen Kane was an Ultra-Right Wing citizen, but Ghosti has a good eye for things like an owl, and he knows that Kane was in fact an Ultra Left Wing activist infiltrated in the Right Wing side.

His actions made the Right Wing hugely inpopular, and the Communism hugely popular, creating turmoil over Ghost's land, for he messed the name of the Right.
In a nutshell, his influence was such that he pretty much elected every president that he supported, and also ousted several presidents, especially one that went against his monopolistic ambitions.

Citizen Kane was a master of population's manipulation, over ideas, and everything, several times his network incited tumults to go against his political enemies.
But this story goes deep and spawns for four decades of manipulation and hipocrisy, fact is, he has been hated amongst the population, but the poor animals don't have a clue of the true scope of this Lion's antics.

That Lion has given us the grace of passing away this month, at the age of 98, during his years however he made considerable damage in my land, and I curse him.
There were parties at some clubs to celebrate his late demise, my greatest regret is that I wasn't there to cheer with my people.

I reply:

Howdy Ghostman
Very spooky story indeed.

Hey but you ain't alone in your country. It even happens in the most "democratic" of countries. Actually they got the "best democracy money can buy"...

PS: You think these lions go to Heaven?:confused:

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
  • 0

#802 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 20 August 2003 - 08:25 PM

Hey Woj, this Nobel Prize winner, Amartya Sen, argues for Democracy too, as would most of the little people. And best of all he does speak for the little animals, not the lion...:)

I add some comments in []...

An interview with Amartya Sen, the Nobel Prize-winning economist and author of Development as Freedom

Although Sen is probably best known for his research on famines, *his work on women -- the attention he has drawn to their unequal status in the developing world, and his calls for gender-specific aid programs -- is just as important* [something very much practiced in Scandinavia].

That hadn't always been the case. If you look at the early, classical writings in development you find that it was always assumed that economic development was a benign process, in the interest of the people. *The view that you have to ignore any kind of social sympathies for the underdog, and that you can't have a democracy, didn't become the dominant thought until the beginning of modern development economics, which is really in the 1940s*.

Why did that change come about?

Well, I think maybe because the previous view was mostly mistaken. There was a tension in it. The market economy succeeds not because some people's interests are suppressed and other people are kept out of the market, but because people gain individual advantage from it. So, I don't really see that the proponents of the harsh model got the general idea at all right. They had some dreadful slogans like, "You have to break some eggs to make an omelet." It's a totally misleading analogy -- a pretty costly one aesthetically, and also it's quite mistaken in terms of understanding the nature of man. So, I think the change came about because it was overdue.

But did something happen in a more practical sense? Why did the establishment suddenly wake up to the error of its views?

First of all, it was becoming increasingly clear that economies like those in East Asia -- beginning with Japan but also South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, and China -- were benefiting from a participatory economic climate in which people's entry into the market was made much easier because *they had been provided social opportunities through such things as schooling, basic health care, basic land reform, and microcredit*. These economies were riding on the success of the individual entering the market.

Now, at the same time, many of these economies were not democratic. But as many of them -- South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand -- became more democratic, it became very clear that the friendlier economic climate and the friendlier social opportunities were doing the trick, not the harsh political climate and the suppression of individual liberties.

full text...

http://www.theatlant...ws/ba991215.htm
  • 0

#803 woj1@cyberonic.

woj1@cyberonic.

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10667 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 11:54 AM

Donquijote;
//East Asia -- beginning with Japan but also South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, and China --;//

The role of government is to provide defense.!
The question, if it is the democratic or despotic it is the second rate issue. For example; Last Polish King Stanislaw Poniatowski surrounded Poland , abdicated in 1795 and went to Russia. During next historic events his ashes returned to Poland but none of our three Polish capitals; Gniezno, Krakow or Warszawa wanted to accept his ashes. This man during his reign supported financially people of culture and education. He was man of culture himself , created in Poland Department of education etc. But his end was a a shame. His duty was to defend country. He might be a perfect minister of culture and education, but his duty was to be the king, the ruler.
The most important duty of country government is build country independence. Education , health care and democracy ares important issues but they are on the day after, when sovereignty and self-rule are already assumed.
Of course economics is part of independence, therefore economic problems have to be solved in on day first.
I hope that you are able to see difference between country like China and South Korea or Singapore. This is different between free man and slave well fed.
Of course this is one person opinion.
  • 0

#804 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 02:16 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<The answer reminds me of a statment made one sunday morning,
by the all time great professional golfer, Lee Trevino.
A sportscaster asked Lee, what did he think he had to shoot today to win this tournament? Lee went into his golf bag and took out a gun and said, the rest of the players with this gun.>

But Russia is indeed a real pro, to name a few shots: literature, aerospace, athlethics, and her scientists are homegrown...;)


TRUE BUT SHE HAS NOT MADE THE CUT UNTIL VERY RECENTLY.
G I Joe
  • 0

#805 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 02:22 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<THE BUTTERFLY MUST SHED MANY LAYERS, BEFORE IT IS
BEAUTIFUL. and so with mother Russia.>

Latin American butterfly is over 100 years old, and it ain't got any wings. Actually it's only shedding resources and immigrants...:confused:



South America The countries of south America have for all to long a time for the most part been governed by the far left or the far right. When they get closer to the center, we will a better life for the man in the street..


G I Joe
  • 0

#806 woj1@cyberonic.

woj1@cyberonic.

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10667 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 04:59 PM

GIJOE; //will a better life for the man in the street.//

Question; are we interested in life of streetwalker or well being of the nation?

"Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right "
  • 0

#807 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 05:51 PM

< The most important duty of country government is build country independence. >

Howdy Woj
I'd argue for *improving quality of life* happening at the same time as indepence. No glorious 'tomorrows' but quality of life here and now. Many an African nation became *independent* while degrading the quality of life however dependent they were before. The first step is the *economics* (the water well) from where the riches flow. Of course, you can argue that the well remained in the hand of the big lion, with the complicity of the little lions, who now flew the new flag...:confused: But however you put it the little animals remained at the wrong end of the food chain...:mad:

<I hope that you are able to see difference between country like China and South Korea or Singapore. This is different between free man and slave well fed.
Of course this is one person opinion. >

I don't know why China was here since her privatization of health care sent into the 140+ place in the world...:eek: They were forced to make an exception for SARS recently and make it free... China is the worst example, and I would say she got the *worst* of both worlds...:mad:

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
  • 0

#808 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 05:53 PM

<TRUE BUT SHE HAS NOT MADE THE CUT UNTIL VERY RECENTLY. >

Joe, when you cite like that I don't see what you are referring to. Perhaps you can try some marks like mine...;)
  • 0

#809 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 05:58 PM

<South America The countries of south America have for all to long a time for the most part been governed by the far left or the far right. When they get closer to the center, we will a better life for the man in the street.. >

Let me just ask you one question: Where on earth there's a country that has become better for the man on the street by following America's recipes?:confused:

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
  • 0

#810 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 10:25 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<South America The countries of south America have for all to long a time for the most part been governed by the far left or the far right. When they get closer to the center, we will a better life for the man in the street.. >

Let me just ask you one question: Where on earth there's a country that has become better for the man on the street by following America's recipes?:confused:

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


It can be really hard to follow a good recipe, even if your reading it as you go. Here are two countries that lay in ruins in 1945.
Now they are two of richest nations of the entire planet. because they were FORCED to follow America s recipe s...
Germany and Japan.
Do not attempt to dispute this fact with some cockamamie lies the fact s are the facts. G I Joe
  • 0

#811 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 22 August 2003 - 12:56 AM

<It can be really hard to follow a good recipe, even if your reading it as you go. Here are two countries that lay in ruins in 1945.
Now they are two of richest nations of the entire planet. because they were FORCED to follow America s recipe s...
Germany and Japan.
Do not attempt to dispute this fact with some cockamamie lies the fact s are the facts. >

Sorry to say the development of Germany and Japan didn't follow the recipes applied to the Thirld World. The poor countries' elites are just 'cooks by the book' who can't come up with their own dishes... Notably they never emphasize education, healthcare, etc, that were the basis of development in Japan and Germany. Actually, because of it, these countries reached a development above and beyond America, at least for the people in the street...;)

*The first prerequiste is not to listen to the economists [which work for the rich countries' financial institutions]*.;)

They are not scientifically trained and hencenot taught to
think logicaly and have therefore divided by zero somewhere
in their equations which is why their prescriptions never
work. Besides they never agree with each other any way.

The second is to remember that technology has advanced so
much now that ANY country can become prosperous in less than
10 years. For eg India produces about 0 .5 million cars and
yet there are indvidual factories in Japan which produce
twice as much ! There is no reason why India cant put up a
similar factory with imported technology in less than 2
years. The same with other consumer goods.

*Of course one needs capital for all this , but this must NOT
be borrowed from outside , as one soon finds it impossible
to pay even the interest*. The capital must be raised from
savings in the country. So make all savings tax exempt.
Japan got rich by millions of citizens saving in small
amounts at post office tax free accounts . Singapore , Chile
, have forced savings of 30% of income. For those earning
less than say Rs 1m they can either pay 30% tax or put it
all in govt savings bank where it builds up tax free until
it is needed for an emergency or to buy a house etc. People
actually will try to declare all their income in order to
save it ! Death duties as in Japan can be made high so that
the wealth gets redistributed when the tycoons die.

Next taxes must be raised on petrol - a valuable fuel fast
dwindling. If levied at source of production or import it is
impossible to avoid tax. The govt rakes in huge revenues as
in Germany . Japan , Italy.

source...

http://www.google.co...lara.net&rnum=6
  • 0

#812 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 22 August 2003 - 02:29 AM

Originally posted by donquijote
<It can be really hard to follow a good recipe, even if your reading it as you go. Here are two countries that lay in ruins in 1945.
Now they are two of richest nations of the entire planet. because they were FORCED to follow America s recipe s...
Germany and Japan.
Do not attempt to dispute this fact with some cockamamie lies the fact s are the facts. >

Sorry to say the development of Germany and Japan didn't follow the recipes applied to the Thirld World. The poor countries' elites are just 'cooks by the book' who can't come up with their own dishes... Notably they never emphasize education, healthcare, etc, that were the basis of development in Japan and Germany. Actually, because of it, these countries reached a development above and beyond America, at least for the people in the street...;)

*The first prerequiste is not to listen to the economists [which work for the rich countries' financial institutions]*.;)

They are not scientifically trained and hencenot taught to
think logicaly and have therefore divided by zero somewhere
in their equations which is why their prescriptions never
work. Besides they never agree with each other any way.

The second is to remember that technology has advanced so
much now that ANY country can become prosperous in less than
10 years. For eg India produces about 0 .5 million cars and
yet there are indvidual factories in Japan which produce
twice as much ! There is no reason why India cant put up a
similar factory with imported technology in less than 2
years. The same with other consumer goods.

*Of course one needs capital for all this , but this must NOT
be borrowed from outside , as one soon finds it impossible
to pay even the interest*. The capital must be raised from
savings in the country. So make all savings tax exempt.
Japan got rich by millions of citizens saving in small
amounts at post office tax free accounts . Singapore , Chile
, have forced savings of 30% of income. For those earning
less than say Rs 1m they can either pay 30% tax or put it
all in govt savings bank where it builds up tax free until
it is needed for an emergency or to buy a house etc. People
actually will try to declare all their income in order to
save it ! Death duties as in Japan can be made high so that
the wealth gets redistributed when the tycoons die.

Next taxes must be raised on petrol - a valuable fuel fast
dwindling. If levied at source of production or import it is
impossible to avoid tax. The govt rakes in huge revenues as
in Germany . Japan , Italy.

source...

http://www.google.co...lara.net&rnum=6



Nevertheless, I take it that is and affirmative to the fact that Japan, and Germany recipe or not....

G I Joe
  • 0

#813 woj1@cyberonic.

woj1@cyberonic.

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10667 posts

Posted 22 August 2003 - 12:32 PM

donquijote; //. Many an African nation became *independent* while degrading the quality of life however dependent they were before. The first step is the *economics* (the water well) from where the riches flow...//

African countries of the past were unable to create the strong central governments! They formed only Swiss canton type administrations . These small, local authorities couldn
  • 0

#814 woj1@cyberonic.

woj1@cyberonic.

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10667 posts

Posted 22 August 2003 - 02:13 PM

<I hope that you are able to see difference between country like China and South Korea or Singapore. This is different between free man and slave well fed.
Of course this is one person opinion. >

donquijote;// I don't know why China was here since her privatization of health care sent into the 140+ place in the world... They were forced to make an exception for SARS recently and make it free... China is the worst example, and I would say she got the *worst* of both worlds... //


I am disappointed that you didn
  • 0

#815 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 22 August 2003 - 05:43 PM

<I am disappointed that you didn-t acknowledge that China is biggest success story of our time.>

Maybe for some, but not most most, which reminds me of hardcore capitalism...:confused:

If capitalism is a failure, it's like Russia; if it is a 'success,' then it's like China...

Making Trinkets in China, and a Deadly Dust
By JOSEPH KAHN
Source: The New York Times

HUANG TU, China, June 15 ? With his handsome smile and full head of black hair, Hu Zhiguo hardly looks 44, much less gravely ill. The giveaway is his wispy voice, faint from clotted lungs.

One doctor told him he had tuberculosis. Another guessed it was cancer. The final diagnosis, based on the cumulus of gray that clouds his chest X-rays, is a severe case of silicosis, a disease Chinese workers call dust lung.

Mr. Hu got the illness making cheap necklaces and bracelets from iridescent stones like opal, sold by the containerload to United States retailers. Working long days at a factory in booming Guangdong Province, he probably inhaled more quartz dust in 10 years than China's own safety standards would permit in a thousand.

Mr. Hu has now retreated to his hometown here in the rugged hills of Sichuan, where he tried, and failed, to help his wife run a dry-goods store.

"I cannot lift a bag of rice," Mr. Hu whispered one recent evening in the back of the family shop. "I am a wasted man, waiting for death."

China has emerged as Asia's leading exporter of manufactured goods to the United States, but the workers who produce those goods are victims of a surge in fatal respiratory, circulatory, neurological and digestive-tract diseases like those American and European workers suffered at the dawn of the industrial age.

China in that sense is not only recreating the industrial transformation that brought prosperity to Europe, the United States and some East Asian nations. It is also reliving its horrors.

full text...

http://engforum.prav...&threadid=22968

<Today Dragon country manufactures her own cars, computers, wins medals in Olympics game, First place in Chopin piano competition and soon will be in space.
World can only envies and it is doing j that, when I see victory, triumph and dignity. >

And so is Hong Kong, Taiwan and So. Korea...

I think we can beat that. Actually we can do better than *anything* out there, can't we not?;)

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
  • 0

#816 woj1@cyberonic.

woj1@cyberonic.

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10667 posts

Posted 23 August 2003 - 07:08 AM

donquijote ; //I think we can beat that. Actually we can do better than *anything* out there, can't we not?//

China population 1, 251823,482
Swiss; 7252, 3372
I am just saying about success in measurements of human efforts to survive.
Of course Russians are better off on independent scale not to mention the Swiss burgeon, whom Hitler consider the one of their own and Swiss didn
  • 0

#817 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 23 August 2003 - 08:15 PM

<China population 1, 251823,482
Swiss; 7252, 3372
I am just saying about success in measurements of human efforts to survive.>

What do the numbers tell me? If China is too big, break it up into a confederation. The point is a strong centralized government is always a threat to the little people. The question we must face is: Who's more important, the people or the government?

<Of course Russians are better off on independent scale not to mention the Swiss burgeon, whom Hitler consider the one of their own and Swiss didn-t lost any one hair during War II, when other countries were wounded and turned in ruin.>

I ain't saying that the Swiss system should be copied to the letter. What I'm saying is that Scandinavia though it got the most benefits for the people who should count the most--women and children--it got too expensive, and it should explore into decentralization--the Swiss--and cooperation--the cooperatives, such as the ones I mentioned.

<?can do better than *anything* out there
  • 0

#818 donquijote

donquijote

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3919 posts

Posted 23 August 2003 - 08:57 PM

`Unlucky the country that needs heroes'

An interesting article about 'Interesting Times'...;)

A Communist Life With No Apology
By SARAH LYALL

LONDON, Aug. 22 ? Born in 1917, the year of the October Revolution, the historian Eric Hobsbawm has lived through much of "the most extraordinary and terrible century in human history," as he describes it, from the rise of Communism and fascism to World War II, the cold war and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Recent events, he says, "fit in with the gloomy picture" he has had of world affairs for the last three-quarters of a century.

But for an unapologetic pessimist, Mr. Hobsbawm is remarkably robust, bordering on cheerful.

As he describes in "Interesting Times: A 20th-Century Life" (Pantheon), his new memoir, Mr. Hobsbawm has overcome considerable odds, including a fractured childhood in Weimar Germany, to become one of the great British historians of his age, an unapologetic Communist and a polymath whose erudite, elegantly written histories are still widely read in schools here and abroad.

He turns his analytical historian's eye on himself, examining with wry, rich detail the history of the century "through the itinerary of one human being whose life could not possibly have occurred in any other," he writes. The title's twin meanings ? interesting times, according to the old Chinese curse, inevitably carry tragedy and upheaval, too ? neatly capture the tensions between his personal history and his life as a historian.

"Do you remember what Brecht said ? `Unlucky the country that needs heroes'?" Mr. Hobsbawm asked. "From the point of view of ordinary people, uninteresting times, where things aren't happening, are the best. But from the point of view of a historian, obviously, it's completely different."

source...

http://www.nytimes.c.../23HOBS.html?th
  • 0

#819 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 23 August 2003 - 10:04 PM

Originally posted by woj1@cyberonic.
GIJOE; //will a better life for the man in the street.//

Question; are we interested in life of streetwalker or well being of the nation?

"Every nation ridicules other nations, and all are right "v (Arthur Schopenhauer)
.

THE AMERICANS DESIRE A BETTER LIFE FOR ALL WALKERS OLD PEOPLE IN THEIR WALKERS MOTHER S PUSHING THIER NEW BORNS IN WALKERS BABIES IN THEIR WALKERS AND EVEN DOWN AND OUT STREETWALKERs TOO.

G I Joe
  • 0

#820 GIJOE

GIJOE

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts

Posted 23 August 2003 - 10:12 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<I am disappointed that you didn-t acknowledge that China is biggest success story of our time.>

Maybe for some, but not most most, which reminds me of hardcore capitalism...:confused:

If capitalism is a failure, it's like Russia; if it is a 'success,' then it's like China...

Making Trinkets in China, and a Deadly Dust
By JOSEPH KAHN
Source: The New York Times

HUANG TU, China, June 15 ? With his handsome smile and full head of black hair, Hu Zhiguo hardly looks 44, much less gravely ill. The giveaway is his wispy voice, faint from clotted lungs.

One doctor told him he had tuberculosis. Another guessed it was cancer. The final diagnosis, based on the cumulus of gray that clouds his chest X-rays, is a severe case of silicosis, a disease Chinese workers call dust lung.

Mr. Hu got the illness making cheap necklaces and bracelets from iridescent stones like opal, sold by the containerload to United States retailers. Working long days at a factory in booming Guangdong Province, he probably inhaled more quartz dust in 10 years than China's own safety standards would permit in a thousand.

Mr. Hu has now retreated to his hometown here in the rugged hills of Sichuan, where he tried, and failed, to help his wife run a dry-goods store.

"I cannot lift a bag of rice," Mr. Hu whispered one recent evening in the back of the family shop. "I am a wasted man, waiting for death."

China has emerged as Asia's leading exporter of manufactured goods to the United States, but the workers who produce those goods are victims of a surge in fatal respiratory, circulatory, neurological and digestive-tract diseases like those American and European workers suffered at the dawn of the industrial age.

China in that sense is not only recreating the industrial transformation that brought prosperity to Europe, the United States and some East Asian nations. It is also reliving its horrors.

full text...

http://engforum.prav...&threadid=22968

<Today Dragon country manufactures her own cars, computers, wins medals in Olympics game, First place in Chopin piano competition and soon will be in space.
World can only envies and it is doing j that, when I see victory, triumph and dignity. >
China student killers by the thousands, so horribly overpopulated that couples having more then two children go to jail and the female operated on to make sure she cannot reproduce, making China the ABORTION capital of the world.
what a great country. G I Joe

And so is Hong Kong, Taiwan and So. Korea...

I think we can beat that. Actually we can do better than *anything* out there, can't we not?;)

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2016 Pravda.Ru