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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#1021 GIJOE

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 07:54 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<HAVE A HAPPY SUNDAY.....>

Likewise. I could be better places but hey I'd be missing this...;)

Bader, you think this how the "Lie" gets planted on the children?

> >Since most children are notorious liars when it comes to such things
> >as denial of buying sweets etc. in school time instead of eating a
> >good lunch, parents never can trust what the child says. They need
> >help by the merchants.
>
> What a cynical view of children. (I assume you are being sarcastic,
> though)

Hey it's reality. They watch a lot of television and news and they
gotta know that the lie gets you places in this world... ;)

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very young children are by far the most honest people on this planet. They are the only ones that will almost always tell you the TRUTH.

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#1022 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 08:02 PM

> At what age are kids capable of understanding and applying principles of
> healthy eating anyway? Might it make sense for schools to begin this type of
> education? I recall health classes in 8th grade (U.S. age 13) -- can we
> begin this much earlier though -- don't we owe it to our kids? Say when the
> kids are 7 or 8 years old? We don't have to begin with the complicated
> (trans-fatty acids are bad, monounsaturated okay) -- just basic ideas that
> will keep them out of trouble (fruits and vegetables are best: eat as many
> as you want). Do you know of any studies about the impact of various levels
> of "eating education" upon the long-term health of kids?
>
> -- Jeff

That's a mighty good idea. I'd implement four strategies:

-Education.

-Put a warning label on it--like cigarettes.

-Ban commercials for children under 12, like in Sweden.

-Tax junk food, and subsidize health food with it.

After that we would be able to say, "the lion ain't preying on our children."

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#1023 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 08:06 PM

<now I see the difference between engineering and mathematicianing.
You are a good gentleman. As a teacher is supposed to be.
I know one recept to cure the R. I am afraid you won't take it easy. But it's the only more or less credible one.>

No, if it hurts it's probably bad. What I say feels good from the beginning...;)

Actually we have a party or two in mind!:D
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#1024 Volt

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 08:10 PM

perhaps,
....
and one is defunct, as of the modern millenium.
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#1025 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 08:51 PM

<and one is defunct, as of the modern millenium. >

Ah, I got you now. You thought I meant political party, but I meant party to have fun and drink and be merry!

It would a be a modern version of the Roman Circus, but without the blood. Little People like to party!;)

Well, perhaps in the North is different,:confused: but here in the tropics it's like that and the Little People can't wait for the Victory Party...:D

"If I can't dance, I don't want to join your revolution."
-Emma Goldman

And she was Russian born... OK, we'll see.;)
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#1026 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 08:54 PM

Some more info on Emma Goldman...

(Notice the mention to Kropotkin, another Russian we've discussed before.)

Emma Goldman was born in 1869 in a Jewish ghetto in Russia where her family ran a small inn. When she was 13 the family moved to St Petersburg. It was just after the assassination of Alexander II and so was a time of political repression. The Jewish community suffered a wave of pogroms. The severe economic hardship of the time meant that Emma Goldman had to leave school after six months in St Petersburg and work in a factory.
It was here that Goldman secured a copy of Cherychevsky's 'What is to be done' in which the heroine Vera is converted to nihilism and lives in a world of equality between sexes and co-operative work. The book offered an embryonic sketch of Goldman's later anarchism and also strengthened her determination to live her life in her own way.

At 15 her father tried to marry her off but she refused. It was eventually agreed that the rebellious child should go to America with a half sister to join another sister in Rochester. Goldman quickly realised that for a Jewish immigrant, America was not the land of opportunity that had been promised. America, for Goldman meant slums and sweatshops where she earned her living as a seamstress.

(snip)

Goldman began to distance herself from Most and became more interested in a rival German anarchist journal 'Die Autonomie' Here she was introduced to the writings of Kropotkin. She sought to balance the inclination of human beings towards the socialsability and mutual aid which *Peter Kropotkin* stressed with her own strong belief in the Freedom of the individual. This belief in personal freedom is highlighted in the story where Goldman was taken aside at a dance by a young revolutionary and told it did not become an agitator to dance. Goldman wrote I insisted that our cause could not expect me to behave as a nun and that the movement should not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. I want freedom, the right to self expression, everybody's right to beautiful, radiant things.

(snip)

The plus side to deportation meant that Goldman got a free ticket to Russia where she was able to witness the Russian Revolution at first hand. Goldman had been prepared to bury the hatchet of mans conflict with anarchism in the 1st international and support the Bolsheviks . However, in 1919 as Goldman and Berkman travelled thoughout the country they *were horrified by the increased bureaucracy, political persecution and forced labour they found*. The breaking point came in 1921 when the Kronstadt sailors and soldiers rebelled against the Bolsheviks and sided with the workers on strike. They were attacked and crushed by Trotsky and the Red Army. On leaving Russia in December 1921, Goldman set down her findings on Russia in two works - 'My Disillusionment in Russia' and 'My Further Disillusionment in Russia'. *She argued that 'never before in all history has authority , government, the state, proved so inherently static, reactionary, and even counter-revolutionary. In short, the very antithesis of revolution*.

*Her time in Russia led her to reassess her earlier belief that the end justifies the means. Goldman accepted that violence as a necessary evil in the process of social transformation. However, her experience in Russia forced a distinction. She wrote I know that in the past every great political and social change, necessitated violence....Yet it is one thing to employ violence in combat as a means of defence. It is quiet another thing to make a principle of terrorism, to institutionalise it to assign it the most vital place in the social struggle. Such terrorism begets counter-revolution and in turn itself becomes counter-revolutionary*. [In other words, you can't fight a lion dressed as one.]

These views were unpopular among radicals as most still wanted to believe that the Russian Revolution was a success. When Goldman moved to Britain in 1921 she was virtually alone on the left in condemning the Bolsheviks and her lectures were poorly attended. On hearing that she might be deported in 1925, a Welsh miner offered to marry her in order to give her British Nationality. With a British passport, she was the able to travel to France and Canada. In 1934, she was even allowed to give a lecture tour in the States.

In 1936 Berkman committed suicide, months before the outbreak of the Spanish Revolution. At the age of 67, Goldman went to Spain to join in the struggle. She told a rally of libertarian youth Your Revolution will destroy forever [the notion] that anarchism stands for chaos. She disagreed with the participation of the CNT-FAI in the coalition government of 1937 and the concessions they made to the increasingly powerful communist for the sake of the war effort. However she refused to condemn the anarchists for joining the government and accepting militarisation as she felt the alternative at the time was communist dictatorship.

Goldman died in 1940 and was buried in Chicago not far from the Haymarket Martyrs whose fate had changed the course of her life.

Emma Goldman has left behind her a number of important contributions to anarchist thought. In particular she is remembered for incorporating the area of *sexual politics* into anarchism which had only been hinted at by earlier anarchists. Goldman campaigned and went to prison for the right of women to practice birth control. She argued that a political solution was not enough to get rid of the unequal and repressive relations between the sexes. There had to be massive transformation of values and most importantly in womens themselves . She argued that women could do this.

First, by asserting herself as a personalities and not as a sex commodity. Second, by refusing the right to anyone over her body; by refusing to bear children unless she wants them; by refusing to be a servant to God, the state, society, the husband, the family etc, by making her life simpler, but deeper and richer. That is, by trying to learn the meaning and substance of life in all its complexities, by freeing herself from fear of public opinion and public condemnation. Only anarchist revolution and not the ballot , will set woman free, will make her a force hither to unknown in the World, a force of divine fire, of giving a creation of free men and women.

Hallelujah indeed!!!;)

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#1027 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 09:12 PM

<very young children are by far the most honest people on this planet. They are the only ones that will almost always tell you the TRUTH. >

I think those kids with the most propensity to lie--those where it gets really pathological--go into Politics and the Church. What do you think?;)
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#1028 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 09:46 PM

Pretty honest, I'd say...

Why Are We In Iraq? (And Liberia? And Afghanistan?)
By MICHAEL IGNATIEFF

In the back alleys of Iraq, the soldiers from the 101st Airborne and First Armored Divisions are hot, dirty and scared. They want to go home, but instead they're pinned down, fighting off hit-and-run attacks and trying to stop sabotage on pipelines, water mains and electric grids. They were told they would be greeted as liberators, but now, many months later, they are an army of occupation, trying to save the reputation of a president who never told them -- did he know himself? -- what they were getting into. The Muslim fighters rushing to join the remnants of Saddam Hussein's loyalists in a guerrilla war to reclaim Iraq have understood all along what the war has been about -- that it was never simply a matter of preventing the use of weapons of mass destruction; rather, it was about consolidating American power in the Arab world. Some in the administration no doubt understood this, too, though no one took the trouble to explain all their reasons for going to war to the American people or, for that matter, the rest of the world.

long article...

http://www.nytimes.c...VENTION.html?th
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#1029 donquijote

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 10:17 PM

<Good luck in your revolution
from New Braunfels, Texas>

Thanks. I wouldn't call it such, but rather "r-evolution," somewhere in between evolution and revolution. The former would be too slow to save us--from war and environmental crisis--and the latter could be too risky.

The jungle the way it is now is not safe for anyone. We gotta come out of the jungle. It gotta go. We gotta move on. I mean if we are not to go the way of the dinosaurs...;)

For example, what lion can stop these kinds of attacks?

The "Dirty Bomb" Scenario
Talk of radioactive bombs and the safety of nuclear power facilities has raised fears of nuclear terrorism. Just how realistic is it?
By TONY KARON

Osama Bin Laden has made no secret of his ambition to join the nuclear club--he has even proclaimed it a "religious duty" for Muslim states to acquire nuclear, chemical and biological weapons to attack the West. But intelligence officials believe that the best he has managed to achieve, thus far, is a limited membership of that club, in the form of radioactive material that could be dispersed using conventional explosives--the so-called "dirty bomb."

http://www.time.com/...,182637,00.html
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#1030 GIJOE

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 10:44 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<very young children are by far the most honest people on this planet. They are the only ones that will almost always tell you the TRUTH. >

I think those kids with the most propensity to lie--those where it gets really pathological--go into Politics and the Church. What do you think?;)



DON Q

This why there are so few men and woman in politics. joe
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#1031 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 11:22 PM

Russians love lions;
Russian move
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#1032 GIJOE

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 11:36 PM

Could it be at all possible that Emma Goldman, in a sense gave birth to the likes of Jane Fonda, and so many off the wall thinking freaks in hollywood and the arts?
And did she ever have a steady job?
Did she ever make and honest days pay in the U.S.?
Or was she another victim of the warped writing and dreams of the ultra left profs, and writers of her time?

We are not impressed by Emma s fierce independance, and anti democratic actions. It appears from all you have written about her, she may very well have died a virgin...... a barren woman, with no thrill except the rush of the socialist struggles...
sad so sad what a waste of a perfectly good bloomingdale shopper.

G I Joe
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#1033 GIJOE

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 11:40 PM

Dongq what is your gender?
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#1034 GIJOE

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 12:12 AM

Have you ever had kasha?

JOE
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#1035 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 10:13 AM

Polish problems with democrats;
Poland was constitutional monarchy since 16 century. (It might be a true reason behind of failure of the country.)
Polish kings were elected like US presidents.
In contrary to England where Cromwell murdered English-Scottish king, Polish liked their kings very much. Especially when on Polish throne was French, brother of Ludwig XIV (who built Versailles). King was source of great entertainment. He hated hunting and any man type sport and spent time in theatre and on music concerts. . French dressed in silk, high shoes, fancy hairs and smell like all roses garden of Bulgaria. Public eyes follow him everywhere with love. End what this ungrateful king did?. He escaped. Under darkness of night, with cloths of simple peasant he returned to France.
Example how really French show no gratitude.
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#1036 Bader

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 10:34 AM

Good to see you back Volt.

Your comment: the other side of the coin, the U.S and other
(UE?) won't allow Russia to rise.
I think I have made a similar statement.
But you have said there was only one more or less credible cure
for Russia but you haven't enlightened us.
I was interested in knowing.

DonQ,
I thought your views on honesty with children rather negative
and I would go with GIJ on that one, but you did indicate lies
or the matter of lying is hung on them, that is they learn it in the main and from the adult world ( did you ever hear that Sammy Davis Jnr song about the kids not being bad, its the adults they copy-rolemodels).
TV is a great medium for everything good and bad, not surprised
Sweden is protecting the under 12 from ads. I always admired
their educational law of starting school at age 7. The trend seems to be to force "learning" (academic and social) on children
before they are capable of assimilating it which is counter-educ.

The Goldman story was quite interesting. She never found her home. Not surprising the options were all smoke and mirrors and puppets generated from behind the curtains as you have put it.
The anarcists never stood a show it would appear, being the meat in the sandwich, it was never meant to be a troika, just a
hegelian twosome. I am still a bit unsure of what the anarcist
really stood for, sounds a bit pre-democracy to me, at least more
sensible than Ayn Rands individualism of todays Libertarians and
the Free-market ideology.
Her perception of the Revolutionary Gov instituting terror (Trotsky a born and bred New Yorker) and in turn creating counter-revolution makes sense if hegelian traction is the underlying time machine- like a battery with two opposing poles.
Terror has been instrumental in the development of Israel as
well. The Palstinians have become the counter-rev. in this case
outside not inside the same political entity but serving the same end.
One could see similar in Bush's war on Terrorism, here both self-
created and genuine outside reactionary factors are in the mix.
But the goal is a universal development not a U.S. development. (which is bad news for the U.S. because this means its expendable and the signs currently may as well be in neon lights and the same goes for Israel) Well the Russian people ( and neighbours) were certainly expendable and has it really changed?
Dirty bombs: DU contaminated matter is in abundance in Iraq
for inclusion in an explosive device.
Checkout www.sierratimes.com/03/05/02/article_io.htm
and www.fair.org/extra/0111/iraq.html
DU is an UN illegal wmd. Weapon instectors can finds wmd
hidden out in the open over large areas (wind carried).
If anyone doesn't believe the U.S. is expendable read this Sierra times article. Its one thing to lie about the Iraqis waiting to
embrace the GI as liberators but this one takes the cake. And tonight Mr Bush was on the news begging the nations to send their sons to burn along with his. Lie on. Also spelt LION.
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#1037 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 11:24 AM

The bigger problem for Poland was Swedish kings who wanted to be Polish king too much. It leaded to wars of two Wasa dynasty brothers. The wars damaged Poland and Sweden. King Swedish Wasa unfortunately for Sweden was working king
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#1038 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 01:35 PM

//We gotta move on. I mean if we are not to go the way of the dinosaurs... //

One can not blame dinosaurs for their death ..
Death of dinosaurs was not caused also by man lack of respect for an environment.
Dinosaurs became extinct before first primates began.

The most logical explanation is change of Earth magnetism poles. It is happens because our planet is still liquid inside. Magnetic metals change their position inside the globe.
We know that it happened before, but we don
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#1039 donquijote

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 05:31 PM

<Could it be at all possible that Emma Goldman, in a sense gave birth to the likes of Jane Fonda, and so many off the wall thinking freaks in hollywood and the arts?
And did she ever have a steady job?
Did she ever make and honest days pay in the U.S.?
Or was she another victim of the warped writing and dreams of the ultra left profs, and writers of her time?

We are not impressed by Emma s fierce independance, and anti democratic actions. It appears from all you have written about her, she may very well have died a virgin...... a barren woman, with no thrill except the rush of the socialist struggles...
sad so sad what a waste of a perfectly good bloomingdale shopper. >

Not at all like Jane Fonda who went to the Vietcong side...:cofused: Emma Goldman broke up with the communists in Russia and Spain. In other words, she didn't side with a lion to fight another.

But anarchists are not obssessed with work--always for somebody else--the way both capitalists and communists are. They want to work for themselves--the cooperative--not for no lion. Life is to be lived, and the machine can work for us if we weren't so greedy and wanted the majority work for the minority...:confused:

Otherwise Goldman's likely to have lived in a year what no soccer mom yuppie lives in their boring lifetime, not even attending the casual socializing show-off at church.

Hallelujah indeed!!!

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#1040 donquijote

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 05:33 PM

<Dongq what is your gender? >

Not male chauvinist, just male.
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