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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#1521 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 05:39 AM

Originally posted by CaptainInsano
GI Joe,

just give up man, these knuckleheads have been hopelessly brainwashed.....I would just let them live in pain........



THANK YOU CAPTAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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#1522 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 06:45 AM

Boris Yeltsin.

The story is pure fact,believe it or not.

The only area where the CCCP was ever equal to the U S was in the military strength. the U S took 200 years to climb to the dominant position in many other areas as well,
.
civil rights freedom of religion, free market economy, democratically elected BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE,
government. The CCCP had 70 years of a constant downward spiral in the areas of transportation.
25 years ago hardly anyone in Russia owned a car.
that in itself is amazing at the lack of forward movement of the soviet system at the time. The food problems due system breakdown. thats 200 up and 70 down, you need some work on your ups and downs.
And you call me crazy, take a look in the mirror BOY! AND KNOW THIS IS NO BOY YOU ARE TALKIN TO.

And the hologram B S is akin to typical party line hocus pocus.

Locke, fails to factor in the individual achievement concept, giving greater rewards to those that make greater contributations to society as a whole. you know working ones *** off while another loafs and then cries for a piece of your pie....
this kind of thinking went out with THE DEFUNCT COMMUNIST SYSTEM.
You are not really the 5 year planner you think you are big boy.
Your style and form are slick, however your message is full of holes and most of the worlds nations that tried it, gave up on it.
Get off it already, your message is BORING...
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#1523 Vital1

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:31 AM

I have proven you wrong time and time again and you keep coming back. Im going to explain to you from first hand experience what really happened that year when the tanks rolled on Moscow's streets in 1991.

In 1989 Mikhail Gorbachev institues major reforms to the Socialist Economic and political system. These reforms are called "perestroika" literally meaning a rebuilding. He allows people to question the ways the government and to openly and publicly critisize it, this was called "glastnost" literally meaning "the right to be heard."

Boris Yeltsin, a sworn member of the communist party, starts insighting riots all over Russia in an attempt to get attention as the Communist who is 'for the people', however his attempts are not paid much attention. He even rides the bus instead of taking his car to work in order to show the people that he is a people's man, and will ride the bus to work like every other citizen, a clever plot to confuse the masses. Furthermore, he fights Gorbachev's reforms at every step by speaking out against them and insighting riots at every possibility. Furthermore, he starts to advocate the importance of Russia rather than the Soviet Union as a whole, and tries to encourage Russian Nationalism among the crowds.
In 1990, Gorbachev issues a consensus to be voted for by every citizen of the Soviet Union. The point of the consensus is to see what the people want, whether they want Soviet Union to remain as a whole or to disband and every republic to become a nation. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE goes to vote. I dont know a single person that had not voted on that concesus. And I believe it was a very one sided vote, something close to 90% of the population of all Soviet Republics voted to keep the USSR as whole instead of breaking away.

Yeltsin, realizing that his plot is about to fail, now talks to major communist leader in Belarus and Ukraine. I forget who they were, but can get you the names if you further request them, their names are not important for this argument for now. He explains to them that if they cede from the Soviet Union then they can do whatever they want. They will be 'big' bosses, each to their own. And then announces that he is going to run for premier minister of Russia only, realizing that he cannot win in the Soviet Union as whole, as he was mostly only known in Russia. The votes come back half and half, half the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic for Gorbachev and half for Yeltsin. Realizing that a civil war might erupt at this point in Russia, Gorbachevs steps down from office and allows Yeltsin to take power. At this point, the top echelon of the socialist party in USSR realizes that chaos is about to ensue, announce to the media that Gorbachev is sick and is unable to continue his duties and has been removed from office. They did this because Gorbachev was an intellectual, who was unable to deal with such a clever individual as Yeltsin, who manipulated crowds with his cleverly worded speeches. After this, they station troops in and around Moscow in order to restore chaos.

Yeltsin, realizing that he is about to lose once again, stages yet another clever tactic. He announces that people rise up and defend Gorbachev. "They have staged a coup!" he protests, "they have removed him from office." Giving the impression that he is defending Gorbachev and his reforms while actually plotting to overthrow him. People in the streets of Moscow start to fight with each other, all fooled and confused about what is going on, unsure at who is telling the truth at this point. The top echelon of socialists, realizing that a civil war will ensue if they do not stop their actions, stop and surrender power to Yeltsin and his criminals. This is what happened. The Russian people were fooled and cheated by a clever politician. This is truth. Dont believe me? ask any other russian.

Boris Yeltsin's daughter is one of the richest people in Russia today. I wonder how that is? While people starve everyday in cities across Russia. The elderly are almost entirely left to rot and fend for themselves, no pensions are paid, 3 to 1 death to birth ratio roams the country, inflation is rising faster than salaries and will overtake people's ability to support themselves sometime in the next 5 years. This is the Russia that Yeltsin gave us. Dont tell me he is a hero. He looted and plundered millions in Soviet assets into his personal pockets and now lives confortably and so will his children and grand children at the expence of the people of the former USSR. He has disbanded the USSR and formed SNG, i dont know how to tranlate that but it was an economic union of belarus, ukraine and russia. Soon, that fell apart as well. So much for Boris Yeltsin being a hero. I do not know if you were there during all of this, or how well or accurate the american media covered this, but I know, I was there. So dont tell me what happened there. I know, you need to find out.

And as much as for the Soviet union was never equal to united states in anything than military might. I never said equal to the United States, I said rival the United states. Read before you start ranting! Here are some interesting facts for you to digest:

Marshall Goldman(an american economist) estimated the GNP of the former Soviet Union as about 60% of the U.S, in 1983.
Marshall goldman, The USSR in Crisis, (New York) This would place the USSR in the same league as Japan with a GNP of over 4 trillion dollars today. I'd say thats not that bad.

Secondly, about the freedoms you speak of, read my other post, but as far as the cars go, about 40% of the Soviet population had cars in 1975. You said 25 years ago, right? Well, look it up, I had a car and so did alot of people I knew. Look it up and you will see.

Now stop talking to me as if you knew what happened in Russia.
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#1524 Vital1

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:32 AM

The years might be off here and there but this is because im writing from memory, and as quick as possible, the rest is true account of the events as witnessed by me.
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#1525 Vital1

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:38 AM

You probably will not see my point even after my last post, but then again you are probably one to believe that the United States won the Cuban missle crisis too, eh? =)
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#1526 Bader

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 09:31 AM

Howdy Vital1:

Perhaps we can settle the childish dispute about how fast the two giants achieved their dizzy hights to prove superiority by who tricks its general masses the most.

No appology was required for my tongue in cheek comment. But I appreciate good manners.

I am not from the US. But I am happy to make comment about your question without seeing the relevance, that the Fed. Reserve owns and rules the U.S. - the borrower is servant to the lender.
You also asked if any Jew had been President. I remember reading somewhere that President Wilson was a jew having a
jewish name similar to the english spelling of wilson.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt had strong jewish lines through the Delano family line. There may be others.
However the Fed is owned by the whos who of jewish bankers,
five out of the eight banking corporation are supposedly European, probably originally associates of the Rothschilds but they are not given to broadcasting family and business matters
so we can pass on this.
You also asked who I thought heads the Russian crime syndicates. According to Time magazine the Russian Mafia are
predominantly if not totally Jewish control. The article stressed the origins and then descibed a second generation of non-Jews which you no doubt alluded to but who gives up a good thing,
we can guess that they moved to controlling from the rear and let others do the dirty work for them. Oh how originial!
Here's a segment from Joel Skousen's web article from Analysis
of Strategic Threats ( joelskousen.com)
"It is my contention that the Communist leaders are still in charge behind the scenes today. In fact they never were out of power. I'm not referring to the stodgy old hard liners that are playing the role of open Communist deputies in the Duma (Russian Parliament). The real Russian leaders, like Boris Berezovsky, bequeathed to themselves all the former state enterpises (under
the guise of "privatisation") and are now referred to as the Russian Mafia. Even a cursory look at their backgrounds shows that virtually everyone of these "mafia" chiefs was a top
Communist leader in some part of the former Soviet leadership. The Communist bosses have also maintained tight control over the Russian Banking system so as to shuffle Western aid money back and forth between their secret slush funds in Europe and Middle East. As evidence of the power play behind the scenes, one astute observer noticed President Boris Yeltsin at a high level meeting in the Kremlin, stepped aside and let Boris Berezovsky enter the room first. This would never be done in Russian protocol unless Berezovsky were Yeltsin's superior. Naturally,
these real powers behind the Russian "democracy" generally stay behind the scenes and rearely take any key government positions just as in the West where powerful men direct affairs
from behind the scenes."
So that clears the situation in both super-powers, the rulers are not in the public eye and Jews are probably more than equal in both camps.
So you think these bosses were in poverty before they become the Russian Mafia?
You mentioned "the general masses were tricked" regarding the
free-market reforms. I hope you are not suggesting that they persuaded Gorbachev and Yeltsin, that couldnt even happen innthe West.
It smells like the rulers pulled the plug and they can do the same to the US.
One last point. About the tree seed. Who created it - God or the State?
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#1527 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 12:09 PM

Bader; Jeltsin was elected with help American agents , like Niemtzow, Chubais called reformers, and , with help US money. His purpose was to open Russia for American drainage. It was no world US critic when Jeltsin attacked Russian congress and killed 500 members of opposition.
Jeltsin was bigger criminal than Stalin , but US media took water to mouth. Jeltsin was their man.
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#1528 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 05:28 PM

The people in the streets of Moscow were interviewed as early as last week. We in the west have seen these interviews, thanks to the free media, and free press, that can not be squashed like before glasnost.
The number one most important thing nearly all these people rated in their lives was their new found or rather faught for
''FREEDOMS''
You fail to talk about the BIGWIGS coming down to GORBYS dacha
and with the help of the KGB, attempt to shake him and his family up. This failed attempt to reclaim their one party control, was a public discrace to the party that was the final nail in their coffin.
There are some diehard communists that lost their place of privledge in the close to bankrupt,nation, and you seem to be the quinticential loser, screaming half truths, and distortions, of what really happened.
I am one of billions that know what happened.
Do you forget the tanks around your white house?
Do you forget the gulags, there are millions that vanished there, and they have very bitter family members, that would be thrilled to put a gag on the likes of you given the chance.
As for Yeltsin, I never once said this vodka swilling home spun
unsophisticated man, was a hero.
I merely stated, he was clever enough to sieze the moment, and run with it. Before the 91 revolution, Moscow was a grey dreary place, full of fear and suspiciion.
Now it is colorful, and full of excitement, and hope for the future.
The people of Pravda, are not controlled by the generals anymore. No federal agent of the government will be marching into their offices and telling them what they can and cannot say.
They are free to print what they see.
A free and open society, is a self cleaning machine.
Bad guys will slither into place of power, but they are eventually weeded out, as Boris was. As for his daughter, when vladmir, leaves office, then her level of protection will wane, and if she has commited crimes, she will have her day in court.
The only danger the U S can have from a free Russia, is a free RUSSIA, could rise the pinnacle of global greatness in many areas that the U S now holds. The Russian intelect, natural resources, and inherent fervor, has no boundries, and constraints, now that retro thinking politicos like yourself have been MUTED.
The days when wacko s like MAD VLAD ZHIRONOFSKY, or however you spell his name, are also numbered.
Five years after ww2, the WEST GERMANS were living in the lap of luxury compared the average Russian living under COMMUNISM.
This is and incontrevertable fact. Free market economy stly government do not help the lazy to live equally with those that work their butts off. Brainy theorists belong teaching school, not in place of power, where they can destroy freedoms in the name of their self rightious coop collective catastrophe's.

Communism is like a cartoon, it works on paper, while in reality it is and unworkable bad joke on the people. The sure path to
hungar and sloth, and fear and desperation.

No matter what you think Vital one, thank the good lord,
you are not so vital anymore.......
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#1529 donquijote

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:02 PM

<You believe capitalism will heal itself after some time and some careful planning.>

Howdy Vital
No I don't. Capitalism must be tamed by competition rather than be "banned" as it was under communism. Communism was about denial, and in so doing turned a blind eye to vices coming from within. A mixed economy would address everybody's needs and would be an absolute *economic success* putting bread on the table, without McDonald's. This would make the little people *happy* and *proud*. Even the Amish cooperatives--I heard the other day--do get more profit acre for acre than large mechanized farms--by using horse-drawn carts... Though in no way I'm proposing such lifestyle;), it goes to show that the cooperatives are best solution for the little people to enjoy their own labor--without the lion...:)
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#1530 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:26 PM

There are no little people, only people working to grow big.
People with big aspirations and dreams.
To say help the little people is tantamount to condeming them to a life of mediocrity, I E the old CCCP S FORMULA FOR THE MASSES.
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#1531 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:37 PM

Iran and Syria, are the only middle east countries that are safe havens for the criminals .
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#1532 donquijote

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:49 PM

<There are no little people, only people working to grow big.
People with big aspirations and dreams.
To say help the little people is tantamount to condeming them to a life of mediocrity, I E the old CCCP S FORMULA FOR THE MASSES.>

In Capitalism man exploits man, in Communism is the other way around...;)
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#1533 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Vital1
You probably will not see my point even after my last post, but then again you are probably one to believe that the United States won the Cuban missle crisis too, eh? =)



Cuba has the same leader for over 40 years this makes the kingdom of cuba the great loser.
A king never gives up his assumed power unless forced to.
No free people will ever have the same leader for 40 years,
we call castro the white dentists son that rules over 11million
afro cubans, that are content to suck off the government, until the tit of socialism is completly dry. cuba is a finger from the dead heart of communism..
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#1534 GIJOE

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:55 PM

Originally posted by donquijote
<There are no little people, only people working to grow big.
People with big aspirations and dreams.
To say help the little people is tantamount to condeming them to a life of mediocrity, I E the old CCCP S FORMULA FOR THE MASSES.>

In Capitalism man exploits man, in Communism is the other way around...;)



Interesting comment Donq, cleverly stated. and what you propose is a combination of the best of the two forms of government. This is probably going to come to pass, so we do not dissagree over everything Donq..
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#1535 donquijote

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:59 PM

(From a debate taking place at Pravda, found in my webpage below)

'TV and radio should be independent of Big Business and the State.
(This is due to two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad
programs become "good"... for business; and, politically, because
whoever has power over the media... will be in power; however, people
should be able to watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us
and example of an independent media.)' [what I propose]

And some article on the subject...

'In a robust defence of public service broadcasting Mr Dyke said TV
was not "just another commodity" like Starbucks or Coca-Cola and
disagreed with those who said it should be left to the market.'

more...

http://mediareform.n...ews.php?id=1804

> > (From a debate taking place at Pravda, found in my webpage below)
>
> Ironically posts aren't made to disappear from Pravda like they do from BBC
> message boards.
>
> Az.

Yes, BBC Forums seem to be very selective about what they print. I've
never been successful in posting there, wheather because of hour
limitations or just good old fashion censorship, I mean moderation...
;)

source...

http://www.google.co...ijote&lr=&hl=en
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#1536 donquijote

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 09:03 PM

<Interesting comment Donq, cleverly stated. and what you propose is a combination of the best of the two forms of government. This is probably going to come to pass, so we do not dissagree over everything Donq.. >

Like I said, it's the Fox that we should fear. He betrayed the Russian revolution as much as today's politicians do to America...;)
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#1537 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 11:14 PM

*Dogs look up to you, cats down on you. Give me a pig. He just looks you in the eyes treats you as a equal *.( Winston Churchill.).
This quotation always comes to my mind when I read Americans advices to Russians or their opinions about communism.
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#1538 Vital1

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:14 AM

Bader, you are right that alot of the now millionaires of modern day Russia are of some Jewish origin. I do not contest this. However, what i did say is that they are almost all previous party party members, and not only were they previous party but they were top party members as well. That is what i said. The people they recruit to do their work for them, whatever that may be, are usually people from the poor walks of life. Without these "soldiers" their criminal activities would be impossible. That is why i said in order to illiminate the Mafia and organized crime, poverty first has to be eliminated. I dont understand why you disputed this and now are proving my point in a revesal of your opinions.

To GIJoe :

The communist party is the second largest party in Russia, Belarus and the Ukraine, and growing fast. If it is as horrible as you speak, then why do people flock to join the ranks? Possibly because capitalism cannot and will not offer a better solution than we will.

And as far as the Yeltsin debate, again I repeat to you, that they(Yeltsin, Shooshkevich, and Kravchuk, I believe) deposed Gorbachev of power. I need to ask you if you are of Russian origin. Are you? If you are not then you cannot debate this with. The Russian people did not rise up against communism to fight for their freedom, Socialism was tricked and deceived. I stress this. No matter what American media says. It was not the case. The population of Moscow is by no means a representative of the population of the former Soviet Union. Did some people support the collapse the of the Soviet Union? Yes. Was this a majority of the population in the former USSR? The answer is NO, again and again. Therefore, Socialism has no failed my people, it was my people who failed Socialism. Understand this.
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#1539 GIJOE

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:59 AM

It would not matter if I was born on the moon,I could not make a point with you VITALY.
I do find it amazing, that you actually think, Russians will ever give up their new found freedoms, for revisionist ideals of the past.
This a ridiculas notion, and will only lead to a dead end in the final analysis.
You are obviously a very educated and strong minded individual.
A person like yourself would have a superb chance of making a big success in the free market economy.
Do not sell yourself short, and pooh pooh all other types of government.
The important thing is a better life for you and your loved ones and your countrymen.
A man with your intellect would be a great service to current regime in Russia.
Try to look at the other mans perspective, and do not be so closed minded.
take Donq for instance, he makes strong points of combining the best of both systems and coming up with a supperior system for the better of all mankind.
A person that says there is no other way then theirs , has closed his or her mind to the possibality of anything other then what is currently in their view.
I do not have anything against you personally, or any other Russian communist or conservative. It is not your politics that in any way disturb me Vitaly, it is your inability to accept my beliefs.
Why can't we forget that we are Russian or American or French or anything for that matter, we are all HUMAN BEINGS and deserve to live in a better world then our children.

joe
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#1540 GIJOE

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 01:11 AM

The U S and the Kremlin have for many years now changed their nuclear targeting , we no longer have your leadership and military on our first strike lists.
Take me off your's and i will do the same..... joe
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