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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#1601 GIJOE

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 08:45 PM

The one thing most socialists, fail to take into account when devising a government system is,


different people have different drives and varied needs.
Not all people have the same goals and energy to achieve them.
Not all people are the same, and individuals have inherent born drives, this is not a thing one learns from ones environment,
it is a genetic trait.

When forming a government, we must take into account the
output of various peoples, and then consider the rewards for hard work, and success.

Socialism or communism in one form or another seems to lead us back to the leadership being appointed by a small clique with personal power motives far more important to each one of them, then the needs of the general populace.

once a socialist or a communist or a nationalist take power,
it generally takes the jaws of life to get them out......

free elections are scrapped in the name of national security.
and token opponents are put in place to purposly lose elections.
and the entire process is blatantly rigged. there is no such thing a opposition in Havana or Beijing, or pyong yang.
The Serbs showed us how genocide was festering in their souls, as they butchered raped and starved the Muslims around them.
Now they blame Hitler for placing the Muslims in their mists.

The Serbs post here like mad dogs looking to maul anyone that does not see life their satanic way. This lessens their sense of guilt and shame, which will hang over their heads for a thousand years. Milosovitch, rots in jail and rightly so while his personal butchers are being protected by his fellow genocidists.
What a vile monstorous group of JUGOS.
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#1602 donquijote

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 09:14 PM

<The one thing most socialists, fail to take into account when devising a government system is,


different people have different drives and varied needs.
Not all people have the same goals and energy to achieve them.
Not all people are the same, and individuals have inherent born drives, this is not a thing one learns from ones environment,
it is a genetic trait.

When forming a government, we must take into account the
output of various peoples, and then consider the rewards for hard work, and success.>

Howdy GI
We used to be on different camps, but I can see you are not the "shoot on sight" type that your name led me to believe...;)

Anyways you are right on the money, but I'd like to point out that capitalism makes the opposite mistake: It assumes that you are the competitive type and if you don't make it, too bad...;) And even when there's a safety net it gives you the stupid fish (welfare) instead of showing you how to fish along non competitive lines. Perhaps the hungry stupid lion wants to keep the control of the dirty waterhole...:confused:
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#1603 GIJOE

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 12:10 AM

Thank you , for the understanding words.
We have been on this forum long enough to get to know one anothers actual attitudes, we are not all so far apart in our aims and politics. There is no perfect system, and we should continue to strive to find the most equitable way to distribute the nations wealth.
The lion is not supposed to eat the entire kill, even if he eats first, he must save some for the other members of the tribe, even though they were not directly involved in the kill.
Everyone must eat.
The system must always be upgraded to help the struggling, the helpless, the hungry, yes i am not the shoot first kind of guy.
I would rather help feed and clothe first.

joe
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#1604 Bader

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 07:37 AM

"... must take into account the output of various people.."

This is the capitalist disposition as pointed out by DonQ who recognised the other side. A balanced view should also take the input side as well as the output. Output is about personal rewards for the approved and no rewards for the non-approved.
Anti-social and elitist. Not intended of course by the author who
spoke from what is commonly emphasised, besides he spoke against an elite (small cligue) being able to control governance.

However this is how capitalist politics is run as well as socialist.

Regards Serbia, my view is the Iraq thing is far worse and no basis to judge others. I consider Blair and Bush more deserving of an International prison. The main stream media corporations in the west are as corrupt as the politics and may as well be run by Dr Goebels.
And the destructive forces in Jugoslavia were stimulated and reinforced from outside to justify war on it.
One of the factors in the move would be to shrink the Russian sphere of influence, which will be involved in the Georgian situation. I would expect WOJ feels this strongly.
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#1605 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 09:39 AM


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#1606 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 11:56 AM

Bader; //One of the factors in the move would be to shrink the Russian sphere of influence, which will be involved in the Georgian situation. I would expect WOJ feels this strongly.//

Woj is not Russian only Pole so it is not completely without reservation about Russians
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#1607 timebandit

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 05:21 PM

The most economical and efficient way Russia could improve it's country is buy an established one that is already successful but faltering. Have they not heard? The United States is for sale to the highest bidder. There is a bidding war going on as we speak. Russia should use the money the United States gives them and then use it to lobby politicians in the United States for more aid. Maximized leverage! The nice thing about the United States is anything is possible. If the United States gives Japan 50,000,000 dollars a year for nuking it's cities in a war that Japan brutally started, then anything is possible.
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#1608 Bader

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 06:46 PM

That is what this thread is. One thing it makes it easier for people to comment about something and doesnt become boring.

WOJ: It is in the physical record, in the US is a stream bed
fosalised that has both footprints of man and dinasaur.
The desire to re-unite Serbs inspite of pollitical boarders impossed
is a repeat of the German problem after WW1 which the National Socialists tried to address but ended in war. They demanded
the reuniting of six areas and never deviated but each time one was given they maintained the original claim and the media
played it up like each claim was added like it was new. The Serbs will have the same up-hill battle. Nationalism is hated by the globalists and when they cooperate more so as you say.
Coops as DonQ champions is freedom and constructive and sound. Globalising is just empire building for an elite which is why nationalism is returning in Europe, they are loosing sovereignty and identification. It is anti-social to become an ant
whether in a UE or Soviet Union nest. (pun on ant in anti-)
Re the Clinton debate and Chinese dictator, the shame of WACO
in which mothers and chidren were burnt to death trapped in a room (literal holocaust) was greater than Tienamen Sqr.
I know you arent Russian but naturally would resent any outside intrusion into the balkins or Eastern Europe, even by Germany.

Timebandit:
What you advocate Israel has been doing for many years. There are at least two websites that keep a total figure of money given to Israel over the years, now in the trillions (currently about 3billion annually in cash not counting other benefits ) and it is logical that if they put just ten percent of it aside to bribe US representatives which is so longstanding it cant be hidden, then the situation will not change. The US make the rope they give others to hang them with. Not forgetting that it is a "jewish" FED that lends the money to them which is a debt which will never be paid just interest perpetually from one generation to the next to begin with.
And many of them think they are bullet proof - very pitiful indeed.
"jew" is a label and as labels go they often dont mean what they say but that is another story.
in the early stages of this thread the odd poster would advocate copying the US to become number one, and some would reply
that to not do what they do would be better. Not hard to choose
is it? But it looks like Mr Putin has made a start at addressing corruption with his move on Khordorvosky. Perhaps that makes him number one leader at this point in time.
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#1609 Bader

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 07:44 PM

Howdy Caligulas:

I havent time to get involved in another thread and maybe I are not giving justice to your idea in not studying it deeper but I retain some reservations.
I prefer to keep democratic principles simple, anything complicated merely creates a playing field for the corrupt like legal wording. They go hand in hand.
Your system is very articulated and dis-connects at the first joint
from public accountability and control which is what I dont like about the US system- you vote for some one to cast votes,
what a set up, but if they like it thats their business.
I like the idea of each higher level they serve shorter for the purpose of accountablility and avoid dictators. However working backwards, calculating the time frames that makes the terms of the Mayors fairly long and the public might not want that.
However its weakness is in the Mayor level. Powerful interests with planty of campaign funds will "sell" their man to the public
and their man will then elect, level after level their own
cronies right up to the top and rotate their cronies in the shorter terms at the top. Public have no control.
The share size of the ruling pyramid and taxes to carry it are an issue in itself. The size would be transnational like UE-(negative)
wouldnt it?

Sometimes symbols are a picture that speaks a thousand words.
An inverted triangle (pyramid) as opposed to the standard
pyramid which has the bottem/base representing the individual,
the topline of the inverted one is the Regime/laws/regulations etc (one could add huge national debt burdons) that burdons the single indivdual (each one) at the pointed bottem and turns them into an ant. The normal pyramid represents the bureaucratic heirachy and levels of power and those few at the top will create an inverted pyramid on top of their individuals unless the system has the representative accountable to the elector.
Superimposing one pyramid on top of the other creates a six
cornered star. Several nations use the six cornered star and symbals are not without meaning.
I would be concerned your system will have a star on its flag.

While we are on this subject bare in mind that with each new
international agreement like Trade/Kyoto etc and the increasing
influence of UN laws (in the US one Judge has already applied a UE law!) over govts and Local Bodies, the inverted pyramid is only just beginning to effect every individual on the planet and has along way to go yet. There is no question that global
regimes will (weigh) reach down past govts and elected reps to the individual (the apex at the bottem) and businesses. No control, no power and no compensation (Mark Knoflers Industrial Desease)
Those who champion capitalism because they think it is freedom are sleep-walking and will wake up too late.
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#1610 GIJOE

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Posted 06 December 2003 - 08:41 PM

Germany, Japan, and ITALY, have no offensive military capabilities, post ww2.
This was one of the conditions, set to seal the peace.
My shoes are for sale, and so are yours for the right price.
The U S currently is the worlds only superpower.
I realize this enrages many on this forum, but this is a fact.
Fleas like woj1 and julie, may bite at our feet, but in the end, we will step on them and crush their hateful mouths.
Russia and the U S are both in a struggle to defeat animals that pose as Gods children, when in reality, they are the devils, deciples.
I feel for the good people of Russia and their fallen comrades,
The terror train, leads back to Islamic lunacy at its pinnacle.
This cancer must and will be erased form the planet.
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#1611 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 12:09 AM

Gijoe; * Germany, Japan, and ITALY, have no offensive military capabilities, post ww2.*

Germany had no offensive military capabilities, post ww1. Had she? Ha, ha ha.
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#1612 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 12:27 AM

Bader;* Sometimes symbols are a picture that speaks a thousand words.
An inverted triangle (pyramid) as opposed to the standard
pyramid which has the bottem/base representing the individual;*

I would eliminate parties system. I would implement the voting directly on candidate to congress and government.
Would be there no people nominated only elected.
Albright or Wolfovitz were never elected but made decision about US foreign policy. And this is where problem is buried. .
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#1613 GIJOE

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 12:44 AM

Had the English not allowed rolls royce to sell the nazi's hundreds of aeroplane engines in the mid 1930s, Adolph and his gangrene gang of genocidists, would no have had much of and air force to throw back at the British... And, had the FRENCH AND THE BRITISH HAD THE BALLS TO STAND BY THEIR TREATY WITH POLAND, HITLER WOULD MAY VERY WELL HAVE BEEN STOPPED COLD IN THE SUDENTLAND.

IN OTHER WORDS THE OLD ADAGE,

A GOOD OFFENSIVE, IS FAR BETTER THEN A GOOD DEFENSE.
WHO S NEXT ON THE PENTAGONS LIST, WHOEVER IT IS,
BEWARE THEY WILL NOT SURVIVE OUR GENERALS WRATH.
THE AL QAIDA MADE A MAJOR BLUNDER WHEN THEY HIT THE PENTAGON, AND KILLED THE BEST FRIENDS OF THE GENERALS IN CHARGE OF ENOUGH NUCLEAR POWER TO BLOW THE ARAB WORLD BACK TO THE STONE AGE........ THAT IS EVERY MUSLIM CONTROLLED COUNTRY.
THAT IS THE MAIN REASON FOR THE EXTREME COOPERATION THE U S IS RECEIVING FROM THE ARAB WORLD, THEY ARE NOT
ALL SUICIDAL, ONLY A MINISCULE AMOUNT OF TOTALLY MAD
HATEFUL FREAKS COMPRISE THE REMNANTS OF OSSAMAS GANG.
SOMETIMES I WONDER IF WOJ, IS ONE OF THEM.......


G I Joe
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#1614 Bader

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 05:41 AM

Are you sure? Like a bit more time to think about that?
You trying to make Slavia number 1, thats a good start.

GIJ: Neville Chamberlain is a popular wipping-boy and scapegoat.
He had no means of going to war because the Bank of England that controlled treasury would not allow the British to re-arm
untill too late while Wall Street, the other faction of the City of London ( not London town) was building up the Nazi war machine and contributing to Hilter funds.
All Britain did after declaring war with France after the Nazi war machine rolled into Poland was drop leaflets to persuade the German public that war was bad. Had he declared war at the first instance possible when it was still possible to avert war,
there simply would have been two years of leaflet dropping.
I have been over this before.
Where was the bravado of good offensive spirit in both world wars from the US which the threat of could have prevent both wars, no, because your dearly beloved Wall St wouldnt have mad a afortune and replaced Britain as the world power which was broken by these wars. Now you cant control it (Wall St, either) and yet you cant understand why everyone doesnt love you for being the next fool in line providing cannon fodder.
Likewise Bin Laden and al Qaeda,(and Hussein) once again US creations.
Stop your shadow boxing and face reality before you hit yourself in the back of the head.
Recently a journalist was murdered in Iraq, making several now, to protect the control on truth and information. Why because
he had discovered and videoed mass graves of "US" soldiers.
Your beloved Pentagon is sending young people who are seeking
citizenship to the US to Iraq. Being non-citizens they dont get the usual treatment. This is a form of mercenary contracts.
No wonder Mr Fox the Mexican President believes the border which is so pourous should be open. I Think it is 40% of the Marines is Mexican, and their wives and families are having to lean on social policy because wages are so poor.
The use of immigrants as cannon fodder is about to become formal, the US is planing on rounding them up under conscription
laws.

Iraq was blown back to the stone-age over about a twelve year period, they US are still trying to win. The havent won in Afghanistan. They arent there to win but to destroy as revolutions do the past culture for ever.
You cant hate what you dont understand.
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#1615 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 12:19 PM

In the stillness of Right Time;
Separateness falls away like leaves from the autumn maple
It is no use to shake the tree when the leaves are still green.
Even in the stillness of right time, branches are slowly bared and become naked with each other.
Push and it is too early, hold back and it is too late.
At the right time will be no stopping.
TAO.
Isn
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#1616 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 07 December 2003 - 11:40 PM

Bader; More trouble in Commonwealth paradise;
Argentina's president said Britain should apologize for deploying nuclear-armed ships during the 1982 Falklands War. http://www.washingto...1-2003Dec7.html Of course it is goof information for the world how civilized English capitalists really are. Argentina claimed it had inherited the archipelago from the Spanish crown before they were occupied by Britain in 1833.
Argentina still maintains its claim to the archipelago.

President Zimbabwe Robert Mugabe had told the leaders of Jamaica, Nigeria and South Africa when they phoned him one after another on Sunday . "Accordingly, Zimbabwe has withdrawn its membership from the Commonwealth with immediate effect,"
The statement said Mugabe had told them: "Anything that you agree on Zimbabwe which is short of this position, no matter how sweetly worded, means Zimbabwe is still a subject of the Commonwealth. This is unacceptable. This is it -- it's quits and quits it will be."
Mugabe had also indicated that he would not be talking to any leader about the Commonwealth because Zimbabwe was no longer a member of the group http://www.washingto...anguage=printer
It was great Hitler and Stalin triumph that helped to disintegrate British Empire.
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#1617 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 12:08 AM

So far ;
1.Unified Russia
2. . Zhirinovskii's Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
3. Communists (Zuganow)
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#1618 donquijote

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 12:23 AM

<The most economical and efficient way Russia could improve it's country is buy an established one that is already successful but faltering. Have they not heard? The United States is for sale to the highest bidder.>

Howdy Timebandit
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#1619 donquijote

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 04:11 AM

The way I see it, the current system fails at taking no risk (say at correcting failed drug policies) and at providing no safety net, as you may end up sleeping under a bridge...:confused: It's pretty much like a circus with the same old show with the acrobats breaking their neck by making the slightest mistake or most likely paying for somebody else's mistakes.

A better system though would encourage risk and competition while providing a safety net. Likewise there should be more than one way to be "successful," as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That would as good as the Moscow Circus indeed.:)

This would be a type of competition worth it of having...

'Critics charge that humans
are naturally competitive animals -- after all, they evolved that way.
To create a perfectly cooperative society, they charge, is both
impossible and utopian. This is certainly true, but fortunately, there
is a way around it. Competition for survival is only one of the many
thousands of ways that humans compete. Humans also fulfill their desire
to compete through games, sports, contests, social status, career
status, academic status, even mating. Eliminating the need to compete
for survival would hardly eliminate the countless other ways that humans
compete. Competition could still be used to improve society, even a
sustainable one.'

http://webspawner.co...rs/donquijote14
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#1620 GIJOE

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 05:08 AM

BASICALLY I WAS BORN UNDER A BRIDGE, NOW I LIVE IN A CASTLE, I DID NOT ROB CHEAT OR STEAL. I HAD VERY LITTLE FORMAL EDUCATION. I WAS ALLOWED TO WORK AS HARD AS I WANTED TO, AT ANY PROFESSION I CHOSE.
I WORKED , AND WORKED AND WORKED, AND ROSE TO THE TOP OF MY FIELD. ONLY IN AMERICA COULD I HAVE DONE THIS, THE LAND OF OPPORTNITY FOR THOSE THAT CRAVE IT AND ARE WILLING TO GO THE EXTRA MILE.
I WOULD NEVER SHARE MY WEALTH WITH THE LAZY, THOSE OF LITTLE AMBITION, AND THE ONES WHO WILL TAKE NO RISKN NOR CHANCE ANY REJECTION. THEY ARE, AND SHOULD BE CONTENT TO LIVE IN A WORLD OF MEDIOCRITY AND WANT AND CONSTANT NEED. THEY HAVE BEEN VERY POOR PLANNERS. CONTENT TO PUNCH A TIME CARD, GO HOME, HAV E A FEW BEERS WATCH THE BALL GAME, AND FORGET ABOUT THEIR JOB, UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING.
A CEO TAKES HIS JOB TO BED WITH HIM, OR HER, IT IS WITH THEM 24/7 FOR THIS THEY LIVE IN A BIGGER HOUSE DRIVE A BETTER CAR AND GET BETTER FOOD AND MEDICAL AND ALL ELSE.
ALL FOR BEING ABLE HANDLE THE GREATEST SETBACK ANYONE CAN ENCOUNTER ''REJECTION'' CONSTANT NEVER ENDING
REJECTION. THE MASTER OF REJECTION WINS THE GAME OF LIFE, HERE IN THE U S.

I HAVE BEEN REJECTED THOUSANDS OF TIMES. I LIVE FOR IT I LOVE IT AND IN THE END I ALWAYS PREVAIL.

GOD BLESS AMERICA, G I Joe
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