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What would it take for Russia to be #1?


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#1841 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 01:26 AM

The best book about human existence is French writer's Saint-Exup?ry Antoine de (1900-1944); The Little Prince.
A. de Saint-Exup?ry studded architecture in ?cole des Beaux-Arts and in 1921-1923 was military pilot, one of these who died during his night fly with mail delivery.
In his allegoric story A. de Saint-Exup?ry talks about human values.
Little Prince left his small planet and landed in Sahara, where he met pilot. His airplane forced him to land. Pilot who is narrator talks about the small person.
Little Prince travels to many other planets where he met many obsessed peoples; astronomer, king-dictator, jerk, banker, geographer, and light house man and drunkard.
But most of time Little Prince spends chatting about his small planet with four volcanoes , Craters are demanding regular cleaning and his rose is in perpetual danger.
Urgency to see this rose prompt the Little Prince decision to return to his planet.
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#1842 donquijote

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 03:37 AM

<Hypocrite Donq;* America got 12 million children uninsured*>

(OK, I made some time)
Oh, the lion-lover Woj, how much you need the beast. It happens all the time though. Massochists need the whip too!

<In Russia is democracy; and Yablonski-s party with American reformers ; Niemcow or Chubais was unable to buy access to parliament . This is just proof that Americans are incapable to corrupt Russia any more. And it gives Putin 80% support .
I seriously doubt in such support for Finish president.>

What I propose goes above and beyond *anything* there's on the face of the Earth--including Scandinavia too...;)

A COMMENT FROM A FRIEND:

The system you describe sounds awfully good. I'd say no country is on the road you suggest, but it might be a good thing for world leaders to read your article, since it could give them some goals. What a wonder it'd be, for example, if George Bush announced some actual long-term goals for the country, instead of reacting to events in a knee-jerk fashion. I'm picking on George, but much the same can be said of most any world leader I know of.

-Charles
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#1843 Bader

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 03:48 AM

Bush should give Sweden an ultimatum that it pay the Nth American Indians reparation for their indefinite occupation while not introducing democracy in exchange for the benefits taken,
or invade it after bombing it for 12 years.

Some French writer seem to be quite unique WOJ.
They seem to have a mindset different from others, but then I guess that applies to all in some way.
The rose and the well are the small treasures in a great expanse
of worthlessness/pure survival/drudgery of life.
It would be nice if all got to enjoy a rose in the midst of the
expanse of debt, low standards of living, no opportunity etc.
While Black and co get to collect roses that dont belong to them
after having an abundance to begin with.

More humour:

"Rabbi Marvin Heir, founder of the Los Angeles based Simon Weisenthal Center, said that he has already received hate telephone calls because of the contents of the upcoming fim and as a consequence is now urging the Jewish community to send him more money"
The film is Mel Gibson's which hasnt been released!
Crying wolf makes for good fundraising eh?
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#1844 donquijote

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:09 AM

<Food is basic demands for all species, but sex is next.>

Sometimes you wander off, sometimes you do make sense. Is it what you smoke?

OK, that's a statement I'd fully agree with. Actually satisfying both should be a high priority. In other words the revolution should be sexy--not commercial--and it should provide good quality food--not junk food. If we provide the little people that, half the battle would be won. The Romans would have said "Panem et Circense," though no gore or mayhem would be needed. Whoever provides that, wins. Capitalism makes a mockery of it by enticing with sex--and charging for it--and by offering excesive amounts of junk food--which ultimately kills you. So we can beat them easily.

< People are species who need not only food, cloth , housing to survive but also higher than average social status and better than average power to control other people.
Any solution?>

And this is the other and even easier part of the solution: The trick of the lions showing off, say, in their SUVs only works because the poor got no options and the media bombards them with SUV commercials. If we give the option to the little people to 'burn the calories,' in a nice safe way, they would tell the lion to go f***;)

YOU GOTTA BURN THE CALORIES!!!

In light of the recent suit against the fast food giants in the US, for making people fat and sick with empty calories and artificial ingredients, on the one hand, and the difficulty for people to burn them off, on the other, I'd say: "You gotta burn the calories!!!" How? Well, I leave it up to your imagination... But, as the following opinion shows, is doesn't seem to be an easy task in America...

Source: Talking Point, BBC News

Having lived in the US last year, I can say most of the comments here
belittling this lawsuit stem from ignorance of life in the US. People
here in the UK are MUCH more aware of what is healthy. In the US "Big
Food" dominates the airwaves and the vast majority of people are
genuinely misinformed. Americans live off processed food regularly now.
Having said that, I think the lawsuit is partially misguided because bad
food is no more than half the problem of obesity that is now coming to
the fore in the US. The other half is the lifestyle the country imposes
on people. In the US you are literally FORCED to drive everywhere - even
a 5 minute hop to a local supermarket. People live in a system where
they do everything sitting down. So it is not just that massive amounts
of calories (with little nutrition) are readily and cheaply on offer,
but that burning any of it off in the normal course of a day is near
impossible.
James, UK


Is obesity a U.S. public policy issue?
By Lou Marano

WASHINGTON, May 14 (UPI) -- Americans are fat. But is obesity a
problem that lends itself to public policy solutions?

Shannon Brownlee, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, is
inclined to think it does. James Glassman, an economic analyst at the
American Enterprise Institute, thinks it does not. The two presented
their arguments at a New America Foundation forum on Tuesday.

Brownlee said the issue is not whether the government has a right to
interfere with your right to eat Big Macs, but whether it is
contributing to the "epidemic" of obesity in the United States and
whether it should play a role in reducing the rate of obesity.

She said obesity is a public health problem, not a matter of
aesthetics, and asked to what degree government policy is subsidizing
obesity.

Brownlee said the medical establishment defines obesity as being 100
or more pounds over one's optimum Body Mass Index. Obesity rates have
increased dramatically since 1970. Now nearly one-third of the
population is considered obese. Another 35 percent is considered
overweight. "Sixty percent of Americans are at increased risk for all
kinds of diseases," she said.

Brownlee quoted Harvard economist David Cutler as saying that even
small improvements in health can justify the high cost of medical
insurance. "Health is worth an enormous amount to the wealth of this
country," Brownlee said.

"Imagine a disease that kills almost as many people as tobacco kills.
It disables you and kills you slowly, like AIDS. It kills more than
AIDS, drugs and guns combined. Your kids are at risk from this
disease. It's not communicable like AIDS, but is rather the result of
behavior and environment.

"Not only is local, state, and federal government not doing anything
about this disease, they are promoting the disease through taxes and
other policies."

Government is actively encouraging obesity by failing to have any
credible anti-obesity campaign, Brownlee said. "We subsidize the
advertising of junk food, we allow the advertising of all kinds of
food to children, when we don't allow everything to be advertised to
children ... We allow entire subdivisions to be built without
sidewalks or bike paths. We're letting junk food into schools, and
even hospitals have junk food franchises these days.
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#1845 Pliny

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 04:44 AM

>>>Is obesity a U.S. public policy issue?
By Lou Marano

WASHINGTON, May 14 (UPI) -- Americans are fat. But is obesity a
problem that lends itself to public policy solutions?

Shannon Brownlee, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, is
inclined to think it does. <<<

I didn't see any of Glassman's argument but Brownlee is wrong if she thinks govenrment will solve the problem.

Governments are advised by "experts" and experts tend to have vested interests. Medicine no longer serves the public but the institutions that control it. The AMA, Insurance companies and Federal regulatory agencies. These institutions are also influenced by corporations such as pharmaceutical companies, the sugar cartel, pepsi and coca-cola.

For the past fifty years the government has been flogging data to the public that is false as regards diet and health. Heart disease is the number one killer, diabetes is rampant along with obesity.
These three things are all related to diet. When I listen to health authorities talk about diet and nutrition there information is all skewed to the continuance of these health problems. They have targeted fat as the enemy. I listened to a nutritionist who analyzed what the daily intake of a healthy diet was. The analysis included everything but sugar and when she was queried about it she said, "Sugar is not considered an important enough factor in diet to be considered." Can you believe that??
Type II Diabetes used to be called "Sugar" diabetes. Since Diabetes became an industry it is no longer called that.
People don't want to give up their sugar and the medical establishment is content to deliver their valuable services to them for this diet related disease. Diabetes is the perfect medical disease, the person lives for a long time but needs continual medical maintenance. No one ever tells them they can control the symptoms with diet. Perhaps they are more content if they don't feel deprived of their processed, sugary, foods.

Donq, you seem to think the state of affairs of the poor and downtrodden is side-effect of our current governments! It is all carefully planned so you feel they are important and necessary.
Murray Rothbard, the economist, once said,"The people and the economy can wax fat and prosperous only when government is starving and puny."
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#1846 donquijote

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:28 AM

<I didn't see any of Glassman's argument but Brownlee is wrong if she thinks govenrment will solve the problem.>

Howdy Pliny
That's right, the stupid hungry lion will never go on a diet.;)

<Governments are advised by "experts" and experts tend to have vested interests. Medicine no longer serves the public but the institutions that control it. The AMA, Insurance companies and Federal regulatory agencies. These institutions are also influenced by corporations such as pharmaceutical companies, the sugar cartel, pepsi and coca-cola.

Donq, you seem to think the state of affairs of the poor and downtrodden is side-effect of our current governments! It is all carefully planned so you feel they are important and necessary.
Murray Rothbard, the economist, once said,"The people and the economy can wax fat and prosperous only when government is starving and puny.">

No, don't get me wrong, low-corruption Swedish bureaucracy may have made Sweden #1, but nothing of the sort in America. America would be better off looking for Switzerland.

Food is at the heart of the problem. We gotta burn the calories!;)

Sedentary Lifestyles: We drive everywhere; our culture has become automated. We have drive-through food, banking, even shopping. Noisy gasoline blowers replace rakes. We watch sports on television rather than participating ourselves.

American youth spend an estimated 20 percent of their waking hours glued to the tube. They twiddle their thumbs with video games instead running with footballs and skating with hockey sticks. Schools have replaced chin-up and parallel bars with the playground equivalent of a TV dinner. The internet gives us all another reason to sit transfixed by a glowing tube.

Like the rest of the population, American youth are becoming more obese. According to Newsweek magazine, in 1994 13 percent of American children were overweight, up from less than 5 percent in 1964. Another 25 percent are in danger of becoming overweight. A dozen medical studies have linked TV watching with obesity, where a child may be exposed to as many as 50 ads for junk food per hour during Saturday morning cartoons. Overall, obesity is growing world wide, especially in the U.S. and in Europe. In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control released a report detailing the growing inactivity and obesity of American youth, and some strategies to reverse that trend.

Again, the growing girth of our youth is directly related to epidemic-level consumption of fat-laden, salt-laden, nutrition-less fast food and the corresponding sugar-loaded soft drinks which are marketed to our youth. If you don't believe us, read the book Fast Food Nation.

http://www.sustainab.../Body/index.htm
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#1847 donquijote

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 05:32 AM

Bader, all, you are going to like this...;)

Voting
The election of George W. Bush as president of the United States of America showed a somewhat unexpected weakness in our democracy: the technology of voting. Most Americans knew campaign money corrupted our democracy; what we did not realize is that the actual process of counting votes was equally corrupt.

http://www.sustainab...nity/voting.htm
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#1848 Pliny

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 06:52 AM

Democracy has been a sham for some time. There is only the perception of choice. When did it make a difference in the American social, economic tack whether the Democrats or the Republicans formed the government?

The next election is going to be hugely interesting.
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#1849 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 02:03 PM

Should the U.S. accede to some Iraqi leaders' demands for early, direct elections?
No. (53%) votes
http://discussions.w...&vote=1&submit=

Of course I don
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#1850 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 02:11 PM

* IBM expects to save $168 million annually beginning in 2006 by moving several thousand high-paying programming jobs overseas to China, India and Brazil. **http://online.wsj.com/public/us*

*Going Global *it was Democritic Clinton agenda isn
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#1851 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 01:28 AM

Bader; *Euclidean design is also reflected in the socio-economic political systems of this present civilisation. The more Euclidean the social, economic and political structure of society the more materialistic, atheistic and humanistic is the mentality of the population.

Nowhere is this Euclidean design more pronounced than in a communist society like the former Soviet Union where the ultimate purpose of government is to serve the aspirations of the
power elite of the Euclidean scientific-inductrial complex. A model of society that embraces the repugnant political philosophy of:
government of the people by the elite for the elite.

The Soviet Union presents us with a rather dismal picture of what a totally Euclidean society looks like. This is particularly so in respect to basic human rights, economic viability and care of the environment where it was a failure on all three counts.*



Bader; You are perfectly wrong. Russian were interested in Greek philosophy especially in Aristotle philosophy . For that reason Russians even accepted Greek alphabet.
West embraced Platonism view. Plato believes in purpose of the world when Aristotle does not. . Euclides simply recycled Plato philosophy.
Aristotle has not very high opinion about Plato and says ;
*I went on Plato lecture about the God and instead of hearing about happiness I found itself listening to a discourse on mathematics, astronomy, numbers etc
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#1852 Bader

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 06:39 AM

"The people and the economy can wax fat and prosper only when government is starving and puny"

The left blame the capitalists and the right blame the govt.

The power to create money out of nothing and charge interest, the power to tax money out of the public are siamese twins- how else can govt pay its debts. Govts are no more going to starve than the bankers, because the citizens in general of the jungle will not consider that their conceptions that both
debt and taxes are as immutable as gravity are ingrained delusions/conditioning.

Junk food is here to stay because the cost of good food is becoming too expensive. Since a quick buck cannot come from good healthy (expensive) food, bulk/ high volumn throughput trash that can be made tasty and afforable is inevitable until we get a fair and honest monetary system.

Obesity is also a symptim of unhappiness/insecurity.

I am not too familiar with Greek philosophers, I seems they all have something to contribute. I read an article once about Plato because he was supposed to have been an influence of the development of civilization and my conclusion was that his "republic" was a similar society as Communist China.

Pliny has got it right- it doesnt make any difference who gets in -
tweddlidee or tweddlidum, because they dont rule the US of A
and the two party system is the same across the demo-krazy world.
The Bush election budget is calculated or or already over a hundred million, so what chance is there for democracy, plus the
electronic voting system that has no surity of honesty. The previous election was fraudulent and nothing done about it so one can only expect it to be even more outrageous next time.
Perhaps it is more appropriate to have started a "What would it take for the USA to be number one" instead.

Perhaps also the Iraqis should be calling for an early election in the US.
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#1853 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 03:03 PM

Bader; "What would it take for the USA to be number one"- mission impossible
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#1854 Bader

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 08:39 AM

Howdy WOJ:
American indians dont need anything now they have democracy.
Muslims will find the same. They dont need oil or realestate
once they have democracy and all that comes with it like Mc Donalds and obesity from driving SUVs everywhere.

Howdy Pliny:
check out the website of gold-eagle.com and look for the editorials in the HOT REPORTS section on the left.
the articles (editorials) Usury Enslaves and Who Rules the World Really are excellent. The letter ends suggesting that after passing from paperfiat to gold that too will be closed for a Orwellian computer programme (which Rockefeller education planning and policy will prepare US citizens for - 1984).
The latter part I added in brackets is not in the article.
Whileyou are there the editorial The supercycle of debt- by Mauldin is an excellent overview.

For those who cant understand why I say the debt money system is fraudulent, here is a sample from the editorial UsuryEnslaves referred to above:

the gold value of the US debt at the end of world war 2 was
229,874 tonnes.
the total gold mined in history up to 2001 is a mere 145,000 tonnes. (forget the rest of the worlds money/debt)
Now you can see there is not such thing as paying off debt only perpetual bondage from borrowing to make payments and for
investing in new cycles of economies to try and catch the wind.
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#1855 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 02:58 PM

Recently is so cold that hands freeze during scrubbing the windshields.
It is sad to think about birds which try to survive outside temperatures during night cold. I feel some urgency to bring them some seeds and bread. I feed them.
And that some moment I understood an aversion and hostility many people towards Name of God. Source of antipathy of God image is created by Bible. This book based on morale uncivilized people hunts humanity even today.
Bible creates image Almighty GOD. When majority of people would agree with vision of the World as a God creation, they have problem to accept God as a morality standard. . Bible created image of Almighty God because it was thee uncivilized demands.
My understanding is that God created world and it escaped from His control, evolution took other. Might even happen that God is not almighty and waits on our help in World moral shaping . These were my thoughts when I saw birds, attacking each other and trashing in fight for food. I couldn
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#1856 woj1@cyberonic.

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 04:55 PM

How would you grade President Bush's State of the Union address?
http://discussions.w...inside_today_us
A-31, B21, C15, D14, F 20. (%)

Americans don't expect to pay their bills. Ha, ha ha.
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#1857 Bader

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 08:13 PM

You are not wrong WOJ, thats one way of putting it.

The "escape" to bondage and distortion and "return" (back on track) to perfect fulfillment of creation is the theme of the Bible from go to wo.
The cry of your soul is echoed in Pauls letter to the Romans in chap8:18... where he speaks for all creation not just man-

"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not to be compared to the glory that is to be revealed to us.
For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the
revealing of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
That the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
For in hope we have been saved, but the hope that is seen is not hope, for why does one also hope for what he sees?
But if we hope for what do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

The futility Paul spoke of was "the fall" (escape) - the rebellion of Lucifer who like Pharoah against the Hebrews will be used to fulfill the plan of God - getting the people of hope to Promised Land which for the future is a new heaven and earth, includes a new body and new nature for those of faith.

The cry of the soul - the groaning is universal regardless of belief.
Your post and what it entails and the same as Pauls segment
included would take a book/s to fully search and encompass hence
"groanings too deep for words".
The Bible of 66 books is one library, which covers it.
A critical credential of the Bible is the un-uring theme from start to finish, like a skewer through a kebab of 66 bits of meats etc.

The skewer/theme is includes the bad lion as DonQ has expressed.
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#1858 donquijote

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 08:31 PM

Three days without Pravda. It looks to me like an eternity, the same the dinosaurs looked to the little furry animals.

Hi all
I tried entering last night but Pravda was shot down, but I used the time to chip into various successful debates I have launched.

Here is an interesting somewhat satirical look at the asteroid God hurled on the dinosaurs...

<The conceited dinasaur in complete arrogance said look the Natural Law is survival of the Fitest. I am the fittest, compete with me to survive.
He said
Shall we fight
See my might
So God got angry and punished the Dinasaur.
Does not extinction of Dinasaur violate the survival of the fittest law, Competition and other principles? >

I can see your point, but I must come on God's side.;) The dinosaur was recklessly looking for trouble. *He was the one that didn't allow competition and other principles like justice and respect for Nature, for the little ants only wanted their own space*. God had no choice...;)

Here's an interesting dialog on the Law of the Jungle, which was the prevailing law at the time of the dinosaurs...:)

> > "Be patient," said a little mammal comforting another, "some day the
> > dinosaurs will run out of style or become extinct." And the patient
> > furry animals waited for another 5 million years--which seemed like an
> > eternity to them.
>
> Exactly. That's life. Equality doesn't exist in nature and you can never
> have 100% equality in a free country - the two are mutually exclusive
> concepts. That's why our government (in theory anyway) punishes people for
> their conduct, not how they run their lives or what they own.

What's life, the law of the jungle? What if some "violent monkeys"
tired of being beat up decide to fight back? I take it that such
primitive law works both ways, does it not? Or is that the Lion wants
to monkeys to always be submissive and entertained with peanuts?

I don't know, it sounds risky to me...
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#1859 donquijote

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 08:34 PM

<Democracy has been a sham for some time. There is only the perception of choice. When did it make a difference in the American social, economic tack whether the Democrats or the Republicans formed the government?

The next election is going to be hugely interesting. >

Yes, it could be viewed as: the Lions vs. the Foxes.
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#1860 donquijote

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 08:45 PM

<By I am returning to Donq-s obesity. I don-t see Iraqi fat, so maybe Mother Nature is right when is taking revenge on Americans for the hungry Iraqi under US sanctions for 10 years .
If Americans don-t want Iraqi to be free, do they deserve healthy and happy life?>

I'm sure they will start growing fat as soon as you see McDonald's pop up all over the place. Actually it may even be patriotic to grow fat...

"Backed by its powerful food industry, the United States called on
Tuesday for more study of the U.N. agency's plan, which urges cutting
the intake of sugar, salt and artery-clogging trans-fatty acids and
suggests governments promote healthier eating through subsidies and
the tax system."

Oh, the "powerful food industry" wants you fat. And I bet you the
"powerful health care industry" and a few other industries as well.
Maybe even Uncle Sam wants you fat... ;)

My proposal:

"Junk food should have a warning label (just like cigarettes),
particularly the one destined to children, and also be taxed to
subsidize healthy alternatives."

more...

http://webspawner.co...ers/donquijote1

Study: U.S. Spent $75 Billion to Treat Obesity in '03
Tue Jan 20, 6:07 PM ET
By Paul Simao

ATLANTA (Reuters) - The cost of treating health problems caused by the
U.S. obesity epidemic reached an estimated $75 billion last year, with
taxpayers picking up about half the tab, according to a study released
on Tuesday.

That conclusion, which is described by the study's lead author as
"conservative," would mean that Americans spend almost as much on
obesity-related health care services as they do to treat the illnesses
caused by cigarette smoking.

Obesity, which increases the likelihood of heart disease, diabetes,
some types of cancer and arthritis, has become twice as common in the
nation since 1980. About 39 million Americans were obese in 2000,
according to the U.S. government.

"The $75 billion number is about 5.7 percent of annual health care
expenditures. Estimates for smoking are about 6 or 7 percent," said
Eric Finkelstein, the study's lead author and an economist with North
Carolina think tank RTI International.

The study, which will be published in this month's issue of Obesity
Research, were based on a statistical analysis of government data
collected for the 1998 to 2000 period. Researchers used the data to
project obesity spending in 2003 dollars.

Their analysis found that government-funded Medicare and Medicaid
programs, which help millions of seniors and poor residents get access
to health care, paid out an estimated $39 billion for obesity-related
medical costs in 2003.

The study was made public on the same day that the United States
succeeded in stalling a global obesity-control plan promoted by the
World Health Organization (news - web sites).

Backed by its powerful food industry, the United States called on
Tuesday for more study of the U.N. agency's plan, which urges cutting
the intake of sugar, salt and artery-clogging trans-fatty acids and
suggests governments promote healthier eating through subsidies and
the tax system.

http://news.yahoo.co...alth_obesity_dc
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