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Explosions In London - Who Stands To Gain? Israel Warned, Cover-up In Progress


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#21 JohnathanRGalt

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 09:10 AM

For what it's worth -- I met Glen Jenvey right here on the Pravda Forum. On Sept. 10th, 2001, Mr. Jenvey was trying to warn the leaders of the Western World that a major terrorist attack was about to take place. Of course, they didn't listen . . . . they never do. He did get some auto-responder emails back from G.W.Bush and Tom Daschle. They didn't listen -- however, I did. I hope you do too.

If you doubt the veracity of my statement, then just do a simple Google search of "Glen Jenvey " (or, you can also do a Google of "JohnathanRGalt " ).
____________________

UK Spy Identifies Groups and People Behind London Bombings
David Storobin, Esq. - 7/7/2005

Glen Jenvey worked for several military attaches covering terrorist groups, including al-Qaida and their members in Britain. His sting led to the capture of Abu Hamza al-Masri, a major terrorist. Multiple other terrorists were also caught due to his efforts. He has been profiled and interviewed in major media across the globe, including in the US, UK, Russia, India, etc. Neil Doyle wrote a book entitled "Terror Tracker " about Mr. Jenvey. Immediately after the London bombings, he gave an exclusive interview to the Global Politician.

----------------------------

DS: What groups are the potential suspects of today's terrorist attack?

Glen Jenvey: "Nur al-Iman" participant, identified as a "new guest", posted on the Jihadist website Al-Qal'ah [available at www.qal3ah.net/vb] a statement issued by "The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'ida of Jihad Organization in Europe". In the statement, the group claims responsibility for the London "raid".

The following is a translated text of the statement:

"The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'ida of Jihad Organization in Europe [Jama'at al-Tanzim al-Sirri, Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Urupa]

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and the dauntless fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

O nation of Islam and nation of Arabism: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge from the British Zionist Crusader Government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The heroic mujahidin have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror, and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahidin exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: " [O ye who believe!] If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."


DS: What, if anything, is known about this group?

GJ: The group is linked directly to terrorists associated with Abu Hamza, who's in jail due to my efforts for British intelligence. The group is also tied to other clerics in Britain. They have taken a oath to Osama bin Laden, if not in person, then at places like the radical Finsbury Park mosque.

You can find lessons taught inside a British mosques at islamic-news.co.uk

The oath I heard about it from Abu Hamza audio tape that I have.

DS: What are the reasons for the attacks? Is it G-8 meeting? Olympic Committee's selection of London as the host of the 2012 games? British participation in the Iraq war? Israel-Palestinian issue? Any other possible reasons?

GJ: One of the organizations tied to the London bombing is Al-Muhajiroun. Their aim is simple - to make the UK into an Islamic state.

DS: What makes you think al-Muhajiroun is connected to today's terror attacks?

GJ: Abu Hamza met with al-Muhajiroun leader and his organization is known to share the same platform.

DS: Which individuals do you see as being responsible for today's terror?

GJ: Omar Bakri, the London Jihadist, said this in April 2004 that a group calling itself al-Qaida Europe "has a great appeal for young Muslims. I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."

Today, a group calling itself the Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe claimed the attacks in London. That could that be Bakri's "Al Qaida Europe".

Bakri looks like the man who will be arrested soon. He took over Hamza after the arrest. Most of the September 11 hijackers came through the London offices of Bakri and Hamza. Bakri said quite a lot in past. For example, he told Publica in the interview published on Sunday that there were several "freelance" militant groups in Europe, such as al-Qaida London and are prepared to launch attacks similar to those carried out by the al-Qaida network.

DS: How important is Bakri?

GJ: He shares the same dreams and platform as Abu Hamza. Being a cleric, he can give instructions to carry out a suicide bombing.

DS: How high up is he in the British Islamist hierarchy?

GJ: Number 3.

DS: Is there any reason today's attacks occurred on the day G-8 meeting began?

GJ: No, it's not linked in my view. It is more likely that the beginning of the court trial of Abu Hamza that is the reason. A war has been declared on the UK.

DS: Are they concerned about the Palestinian issue and the Israel-Arab conflict, or is it strictly an attempt to impose radical Islam on the world?

GJ: British Jihadis see Hamza as an important figure. They don't care about the world's problems.

DS: Why was the British intelligence and police incapable of intercepting this attack? How should it improve in the future?

GJ: They should use Commonwealth countries like Sri Lanka and India, who have the human intelligence to get inside terror groups. A white police officer who only speaks English is going to find it hard to go un-cover in a terrorist group for serveral years at a time.

DS: Stratfor is reporting that Israel warned UK. What do you make of this claim?

GJ: Israel is not the only country or organization that has warned the British police. I have as well. But they don't act on the information outside their own ranks and are always convinced that they know best.

DS: What other countries do you know of who warned the UK?

GJ: India has been warning the UK about terrorist groups for the past few years. Russia has requested that Chechen terrorists deported. French intelligence service also faced the British brick wall.

DS: So why hasn't MI6 reacted?

GJ: When I worked with Sri Lankan secret service on the issues related to Tamil Tigers, who have a office in London at 211 Katherine road, Eastham, London, I was told by the UK foreign office that as long as British interests were safe, MI6 would not act.

It is possible that al-Qaida had a agreement not to target the United Kingdom so long as their operatives were not arrested. The Abu Hamza case meant the end of the agreement and Islamists declared war on Britain.

It's my personal view that they were left alone to protect British interests.

DS: How do you think the British government and society will respond to the attack? Will they get more resolve to fight or choose the "Spanish Option" to please terrorists?

GJ: You only need to know history. The British will now fight terror with 100% effort, but you need good intelligence and money to fight and win. Also, until they get the bombers and their equipment, people should be on guard for more attacks. Let's hope the British police will perform mass arrests now.

DS: What effect will the bombing have on the rest of Europe? Will it make the EU policy more hawkish, in line with the US, Russia and Israel, or dovish, in line with Spain?

GJ: We must go on as normal, but not be sheep to a wolf. The Sri Lankan head of state said once that to fight terror, you need to use terror. Jihadis mean death to Westerners and our way of life. If you don't fight hard against these terrorist and fight them, you will get terror. Fighting terror with human rights laws will result in days like today.

DS: What lessons should the US learn from today's bombings?

GJ: To get human rights give the police real powers to make arrests, develop good intelligence, and provide funding for agents.
((... continued ... ))
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#22 NonZionist

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Miss Astrojet
Spain surrendered to the islamofascists demands. Spain surrendered period. A couple of muslims were able to do something the Moors were unable to do for centuries, bring Spain to her knees. Britain will never surrender nor the US to islamofascists. [/B]





The U.S.I. and the U.K.I. have both surrendered to the Israelo-fascists.
  • We've surrendered our treasure. (Israel has cost us Americans at least $1,600,000,000,000),
    .
  • We've surrendered our freedom of speech. (Criticism of Israel is taboo in our media and in our government)
    .
  • We've surrendered our democracy (When our representatives put the interests of their own constituents ahead of the interests of fascist Israel, the Israeli lobby buys the election out from under the representative.)
    .
  • Now, we're surrendering our sons and daughters. (Our Zionista regime is now starting wars on behalf of the Israeli fascists, killing tens of thousands of people, sending our sons and daughters off to kill and be killed, turning our children into soulless mass-murderers.)

THAT is the sort of surrender you seem to support.



Now, contrast the U.S.I. with Spain. In what sense has Spain "surrendered"?

Spain found the courage to stand up to the U.S.I.. It withdrew its troops from the mad war against Iraq. This war is NOT a part of any "war on terror": Just the opposite, the Bush-Blair war is SPAWNING terror to a huge extent.

Spain abandoned Bush's FALSE "war on terror", and begain to resist terror in earnest, using INTELLIGENCE.

Intelligence seems to be one of the things you reject.

+(
That which the fascists hate above all else is intelligence.
)+
-- Miguel de Unamuno (1864-1936, great Spanish philosopher, poet, and patriot).



<><><><><><><><><><>

http://www.amconmag....10_21/iraq.html
+(
Iraq: The Case Against Preemptive War*

The administration's claim of a right to overthrow regimes it considers hostile is extraordinary -- and one the world will soon find intolerable.
by Paul W. Schroeder
....
It would represent something to my knowledge unique in history. It is common for great powers to try to fight wars by proxy, getting smaller powers to fight for their interests. This would be the first instance I know where a great power (in fact, a superpower) would do the fighting as the proxy of a small client state.
....
)+




http://www.counterpu...erland0510.html
+(
A Congressional Staffer Details Israel's Stranglehold on Capitol Hill:

"we are All Members of Likud Now."

Our Vichy Congress by George Sunderland
May 10, 2002 CounterPunch Special Report
....
For expressions of sheer grovelling subservience to a foreign power, the pronouncements of Laval and Petain pale in comparison to the rhetorical devotion with which certain Congressmen have bathed the Israel of Ariel Sharon. In March, Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma took the Senate floor and said the September 11 attacks were punishment by God in response to U.S. policy toward Israel.
....
)+
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#23 NonZionist

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Draco_Annie
In Canada, it's been anglos vs french for centuries now.

It's not even a question of race. It's part of human race to antagonize with their environment and neighbours all the time instead of being grateful for the beauty and the people that surround us.

Go figure.






I don't think we should become resigned to this situation!


Recognize that nationalism is a double-edged sword. USE that sword! -- and use it wisely.

Nationalism helps people in Quebec to see through the huge lies being promulgated by Israel and the Anglosphere. At the same time, nationalism deprives Quebec of the ability to represent universal values, and it allows the Anglosphere to pose as the champion of these values. Thus, Quebec gains awareness, but the awareness stagnates.




If we human beings wish to survive, we need to learn how to bridge such dialectics. It is not enough to choose one or the other -- either nationalism OR internationalism.

For example, it's not enough to simply wave our flag in everyone's face.


As Lenin realized, we need to embrace BOTH sides of the dialectic - only then does reality come ALIVE.

Nationalism may deepen our awareness (of rival nations), but then we need to USE that awareness to counteract the limits created by nationalism. We need to DO something with our awareness. We need to take the LEAD.


The development of a nation here parallels the development of a human being. The child is, necessarily, self-involved, but when we become adults, we use the resources acquired in childhood to serve our fellow human beings. We need childhood, but we cannot allow ourselves to get STUCK in the self-indulgent childhood phase.

Nations, similarly, need to MATURE -- mature to the point that they are willing to USE their own nationalism to benefit neighboring nations. Nationalism needs to become a MATURE force, a living helpful force.


We love others, as we love ourselves, and we love ourselves as we love others. Take away either side of that formula and we stagnate, we die. For humanity to live and prosper, it needs both sides of the formula, both nationalism AND internationalism.


A while ago, I developed a political concept I call "secession plus re-union": We secede from the corrupt system, thus gaining leverage, then we use that leverage to re-unite on our own terms.

Nationalism represents the "secession" phase. Let's start there, let's gain our freedom, but let's not stop there! The fun begins when we start working with OTHERS.

Quebec needs to engage OTHERS!
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#24 JohnathanRGalt

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:56 PM

Part 2 --- UK Spy Identifies Groups and People Behind London Bombings
David Storobin, Esq. - 7/7/2005

DS: What major security flaws do you see in the US today?

GJ: Refusal to use non-Americans in intelligence operations.

DS: Do you know of any direct link between Hamza and Iran, such as financial support, exchange of intelligence information and cooperation in terrorist acts?

GJ: Yes, Hamza's terror cell and Islamic Jihad are on video in London calling out their names in an anti-Israeli demonstration.

DS: Which Islamic Jihad? Egyptian? Palestinian? Lebanese?

GJ: Suicide bombers in Israel by groups with known links with Iran. Remember the Mike's bar attack by two British Muslims? Hamza had them on his video that he sent to me. He's also tied to Hamas, Hizballah, al-Jama'ah al-Islamiyyah and other groups.

DS: Who do you expect to be attacked next? Does a country's participation in the Iraq Coalition make it more vulnerable to terror?

GJ: Can't say who'll be next, as I don't know, but it's still not clear whether more attacks will follow here in the UK. If the police does not arrest the bombers and finds the weapons, factories or safe houses. We could be in for more attacks.

DS: What effect will it have on the hard-right political parties, both in the UK and throughout Europe?

GJ: It will effect racial tensions in parts of the UK. Today is not a good day for people like myself who are brown/coffee skinned. But terror victims and their families are what are important.

DS: Do you feel that terrorists can be defeated with proper effort?

GJ: Yes, but it's not something that political leaders are helping to achieve by blocking methods to gain information on terrorist cells by claiming it's against human rights. For example, tracking internet IP addresses of computers is against the law. How crazy is that?!
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#25 Draco_Annie

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 06:21 PM

Originally posted by NonZionist
I don't think we should become resigned to this situation!


Recognize that nationalism is a double-edged sword. USE that sword! -- and use it wisely.

Nationalism helps people in Quebec to see through the huge lies being promulgated by Israel and the Anglosphere. At the same time, nationalism deprives Quebec of the ability to represent universal values, and it allows the Anglosphere to pose as the champion of these values. [b]Thus, Quebec gains awareness, but the awareness stagnates.



Untrue and biased, NZ. You'd have to experience the Québec reality to realize how wrong this statement is.

The awareness does not stagnate, on the contrary. By turning our backs on Anglos, we are opening to the rest of the world and that doesn't mean the US, it really means the rest of the world.

Afghanistan and Irak antiwar marches were held at minus 35 degrees in winter and Montreal crowds were the largest in all of Canada.

Next time you visit, please spend some time in Québec, not just in Ontario.


:angel:
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#26 NonZionist

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 06:24 PM

Originally posted by JohnathanRGalt
http://globalpolitic...0&cid=11&sid=60





You've posted this same tedious interview in ten different threads.

Instead of posting my entire reply ten times, I'll merely post a link:

http://engforum.prav...301#post1478301 -- Reply to Galt and Jenvey
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#27 NonZionist

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Draco_Annie
Untrue and biased, NZ. You'd have to experience the Québec reality to realize how wrong this statement is.

The awareness does not stagnate, on the contrary. By turning our backs on Anglos, we are opening to the rest of the world and that doesn't mean the US, it really means the rest of the world.

Afghanistan and Irak antiwar marches were held at minus 35 degrees in winter and Montreal crowds were the largest in all of Canada.

Next time you visit, please spend some time in Québec, not just in Ontario.


:angel:





I hope to visit Quebec someday. However, there are many hurdles I have to get over first.

Learning French, I suppose, is one of the hurdles: Montreal is a cosmopolitan city where English is heard and understood, but the rest of Quebec is not bilingual, or so I've been told.




My message, biased or otherwise, was a direct response to your message.

You wrote of a centuries-old antagonism, Draco. I think it is unnecessary to let this antagonism fester.


Wherever the blame for the conflict lies, Quebec has an opportunity to seize the day, an opportunity to be proactive. By demonstrating a strong desire to end the conflict on fair and universal terms, Quebec can steal the moral and political lead from Ontario.




As I wrote in my post, Quebec needs to show that it is not on a one-way street. There is a DIALECTIC -- approach AND retreat, solitude AND togetherness, secession AND unity, exhalation AND inhalation. Life occurs only when BOTH elements are present.

Quebec needs to show that it is not monomaniacal in its pursuit of separation -- that its separatism has LIMITS, that separatism is not its very IDENTITY, that there is MORE to Quebec than separatism and Anglophobia.


If you think about it, we are all separate people: We could not function, if we were all just one big blob. Separation, WITHIN LIMITS, is essential to survival.

That separation or distance ENABLES us to see one another and cooperate with one another. So separation, within limits and on EQUAL terms, is an essential thing, essential for Quebec and essential for Ontario. That is the case Quebec needs to make, in order to relegitimize itself in the eyes of Ontario citizens.




Writing off Ontario is just not good enough. The world cannot just write off the entire Anglosphere.

The English Empire will not go down without a fight, and that fight will wreck the human race. So we need to transform the Empire, and that will happen only when groups outside the Empire stop gazing at their navels and start beating the Empire in the moral and political realm.




Why, for example, does Quebec allow Bush to have a monopoly on "Freedom" and "Democracy"? Are there no politicians in Quebec who are willing to state publically

+(
"We TOO believe in freedom and democracy! In fact, we take freedom and democracy MORE seriously than YOU do, Mr. Global Dictator! Our democracy actually WORKS! Our people are GENUINELY free!
)+
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#28 Draco_Annie

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 07:40 PM

Originally posted by NonZionist


Quebec needs to show that it is not

Quebec needs to show that it is not .

[b]That is the case Quebec needs to make, in order to relegitimize itself in the eyes of Ontario citizens.




You're american, hey NZ?

Your statements are full of s h i t, I'm sorry.

Don't tell us what Québec needs to do when you don't have an ounce of an idea of our own reality.

You've have the chance to visit Ontario lately, but never made it in our province.

What you're saying is hearsay: you're repeating what our opponents feel we should do.

You know why? Because you've been hanging around in Harper's country, another Bush poodle and now you're trying to show me what our problems are and that we should apply Bush's and neocons solutions.

Look what they've done to your own country and constitution.

Hey, just don't meddle in something you know nothing about, ok?
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#29 NonZionist

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Draco_Annie
You're american, hey NZ?

Your statements are full of s h i t, I'm sorry.

Don't tell us what Québec needs to do when you don't have an ounce of an idea of our own reality.

You've have the chance to visit Ontario lately, but never made it in our province.

What you're saying is hearsay: you're repeating what our opponents feel we should do.

You know why? Because you've been hanging around in Harper's country, another Bush poodle and now you're trying to show me what our problems are and that we should apply Bush's and neocons solutions.

Look what they've done to your own country and constitution.

Hey, just don't meddle in something you know nothing about, ok?






My comments are intended to be helpful. I don't claim to know everything. All I have is my own (first-hand) impressions. My impressions may be inadequate, but they ARE based on reality -- on one aspect of reality, at least.

I'm not condemning Quebec, and I'm certainly not hostile to Quebec. I'm merely pointing out apparent opportunities.

When I say "Quebec needs to ..." I am merely stating MY OWN impression of an apparent need.

I certainly DO NOT want you to "apply Bush and neo-con solutions" -- unless you categorize dialogue and political affirmation as "Bush solutions"! To me, the "Bush solutions" involve the use of state-terror and extreme military force. Do you really believe that THAT is what I'm advocating??! LOL!


The very fact that you take such strong offense at my innocuous remarks suggests that Quebec has a lot of room for improvement. If you were really demonstrating maturity and using all of your opportunities for dialogue with Ontario, you would take my comments in stride and acknowledge my helpful advice gracefully. If my advce is unworkable or unhelpful, you would explain WHY.

I am disappointed, Draco! You are treating me as if I were "The Enemy"!



I certainly don't object when you criticize MY country. I WELCOME your criticism. I learn from it. I'm not afraid of it. Give me more!

Can you say the same? Shouldn't relations be basd on RECIPROCITY?

What am I missing, Draco? You have me wondering whether we share the same basic principles!
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#30 Draco_Annie

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 08:59 PM

Don't compare the US and Québec. We're not a superpower, on the contrary.

Although we are founders of the great country that is Canada today, we have been its underdog for most of our history whereas the US is a world superpower.

In the sixties and seventies, we have fought to keep our language and culture and have won that right, not without violence.

We stood up and fought for the right to work and shop in French, to have our own French-speaking institutions and legal systems, among other things.

You want to be able to criticize my country the way I criticize yours.

Fine by me, go ahead. But before you do, follow my example by learning its history like I learn yours. Provide links and comparisons, objective discussions and arguments, not something that you've heard while you were sojourning for a few days in Anglo country, that's not fair nor is it useful.

But remember that when you entered Canada, it was from Ontario not Québec. And the frustration you have encountered should give you a clear idea of what we're talking about. Had you entered from the Québec side, you mignt not have known the same ordeal.

In general or in particular, when arguing about Québec, or any other topic for that matter, you have to get your facts right, not just some top of the head idea of how it could be improved.

Lest imbecility become your trademark.
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#31 Draco_Annie

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 01:23 AM

NZ:

Here's a brief overview of Québec's history and situation to make you understand our own reality

Basically, it's the same as what colonialists have done and are still doing around the world.

The Anglos, and their master, UK, have exploited Québec's natural resources for centuries: our waters, our fisheries, our forests, our mines, our lands and everything that was ours. We were the white niggers of America: used as cheap labor slaving under the Anglos to extract and develop our own natural resources: that's how they made their fortunes in the rest of Canada as well as in Britain.

In the rest of Canada, everyone was entitled to a college education. Not here, kids had to start working at the age of 14 to make ends meet for their families.

The Church and the State made sure Québécois stayed oppressed and ignorant for a long time.

In the sixties, we changed all that. We fought for our language and culture as well as for our own economy and our own resources.

In fact, when we fight with federal Ottawa, it's always on the issue of our resources and revenues and we have to fight all the time to obtain perequation between the provinces even if we're one of the largest provinces, we never get more than Prince Edward Island, for instance, which is a tiny maritime province.

We contributed and still do a great deal in the Treasury but have to fight for our own social programs for our children to get proper care, our elders to be looked after and our medical system to get working properly.

So when Anglos try to tell you it's about anything else, ask them if they're aware of their history, of our situation. They don't. They'll tell you we're savages and they'll demonize us no end because we want to go our own way, the way of freedom.

If you're against the brutal invasion and occupation of Irak and other countries around the world, so are we. And you should understand why.

Peace.
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#32 farmer

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 01:28 AM

"nationalism being a 2-edged sword" and to use it "wisely". I have always expected my own "nationalism" (Canadian) to be met and balanced head on with other's pride of nation.....thought it just went with the "turf" actually since everybody is a somebody from somewhere! Right ?

No nationality can seriously be expected to be taken for "superior"......money/stability/equality or not. (Those are all often transitory conditions)

We can all learn plenty from just about anybody......(meaning race/culture/political system etc)

As for Quebec, I hope she'll get easy with the rest of us. She could do a lot worse. We owe her big time on the "flare" level (arts and creativity and hockey) and for forcing "education" on us (i.e. second language). And I believe she is getting her long-over-due "hearing" at last.

Go NonZionist go!:) :) :kowt:
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#33 Draco_Annie

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 01:43 AM

:kowt:
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#34 NonZionist

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Draco_Annie
NZ:

Here's a brief overview of Québec's history and situation to make you understand our own reality

Basically, it's the same as what colonialists have done and are still doing around the world.

The Anglos, and their master, UK, have exploited Québec's natural resources for centuries: our waters, our fisheries, our forests, our mines, our lands and everything that was ours. We were the white niggers of America: used as cheap labor slaving under the Anglos to extract and develop our own natural resources: that's how they made their fortunes in the rest of Canada as well as in Britain.

In the rest of Canada, everyone was entitled to a college education. Not here, kids had to start working at the age of 14 to make ends meet for their families.

The Church and the State made sure Québécois stayed oppressed and ignorant for a long time.

In the sixties, we changed all that. We fought for our language and culture as well as for our own economy and our own resources.

In fact, when we fight with federal Ottawa, it's always on the issue of our resources and revenues and we have to fight all the time to obtain perequation between the provinces even if we're one of the largest provinces, we never get more than Prince Edward Island, for instance, which is a tiny maritime province.

We contributed and still do a great deal in the Treasury but have to fight for our own social programs for our children to get proper care, our elders to be looked after and our medical system to get working properly.

So when Anglos try to tell you it's about anything else, ask them if they're aware of their history, of our situation. They don't. They'll tell you we're savages and they'll demonize us no end because we want to go our own way, the way of freedom.

If you're against the brutal invasion and occupation of Irak and other countries around the world, so are we. And you should understand why.

Peace.





Thanks, Draco. This is just the sort of reply I was hoping for.




As you know, our American founders fought against the British Empire, and received support from France. My view of the world is parallel to theirs.




http://www.antiwar.c...in/j022103.html
+(
VIVE LA FRANCE!
The spirit of Lafayette lives on in the refusal of France to go along with the War Party
by Justin Raimondo / Feb. 21, 2003
....
As America crosses the Rubicon, and abandons the legacy of the Founders for a new age of Caesarism, the French, threatening to use their UN veto, stand in the way -- and the fury of the War Party has been unleashed, to often comical effect.
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http://www.antiwar.c...in/j021703.html
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RALLYING FOR WAR
The War Party has taken to the streets - with pathetic results
Justin Raimondo / Feb. 17, 2003
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Them damn Frenchies! How dare they fail to kowtow when we crack the whip! While Jonah Goldberg and his fellow Francophobes over at National Review crack jokes about "cheese-eating surrender monkeys," what riles them is that the French won't surrender to the Americans. As for boycotting French products: why stop with France? In Europe, in the "pro-American" East as well as the West, eighty percent plus oppose the war; in the rest of the world, the numbers are probably higher. If Sawicki and his French-hating friends dare to be consistent, they are going to wind up boycotting the rest of the world outside of Israel -- and they call us "isolationists"!
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I don't oppose the British PEOPLE. What I oppose is EMPIRE. The British people were victims of their empire, as we Amercans are victims of our empire today -- we all become cash-cows and the cannon-fodder for the empire and its mad wars.

Empire is the enemy of freedom. It doesn't matter to me whether the empire is British or American or Anglo or French or Spanish: If it's a murderous deranged empire, I oppose it, and I am in sympathy with its victims.




Apparently, the empire that colonized us also colonized you. So we Americans should have a natural sympathy for Québécois.

Here in the U.S. south, we have been colonized also by the Yankee empire. The 1861 War Against the South was primarily about economics and only secondarily about slavery -- "abolition of slavery", like "democratization" today, served mainly as the idealistic PRETEXT or smoke-screen for aggression. The South was plundered during and after that war, and was kept under occupation for a century.




Unfortunately, the pro-freedom worldview of our founders has been lost. Our own government, in 1861, chose bigness ("union") over freedom, and in so doing, took the first step down the path to empire.

British capital grew and became dominant. What the British Empire failed to win on the battlefield, it won in the boardrooms. By 1917, Americans were being sent to kill and be killed on behalf of the very empire that their ancestors fought AGAINST -- and those Americans who refused to fight for the British Empire were imprisoned and tortured by the U.S. regime.




U.S. participation in WW I led to the Treaty of Versailles and the rise of Hitler. See:

http://www.freeforum...orum=times#4298 -- The Roots of World War II

I would have opposed U.S. participation -- not because I am lacking in sympathy for the British PEOPLE, but because I lack sympathy for EMPIRE, and the war was about saving the British EMPIRE, not about saving Brtish lives.




In the previous century, governments murdered about 170,000,000 people.

Empire has won, and we Americans have been turned against our own founding tradition. Where our founders saw government as a "necessary evil" or worse, we idolize government and live vicariously through the state.

For our founders, "freedom" meant "freedom for the INDIVIDUAL". For us, freedom means "freedom for the STATE". We feel "free" when our government is free of all constaint, free to scorn international law, free to start wars, free to terrorize people and torture people, free to tell entrancing lies, free to use us and rob us and turn us into cannon-fodder.
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#35 NonZionist

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Posted 10 July 2005 - 02:46 PM

Thanks for your message, farmer. Welcome! I hope to see many more posts from you, here. :)




I especially like your signature line.

+(
May the good earth be preserved from those who follow leaders.
)+


WW I, which I was just writing about, illustrates your point nicely. Our leaders want us to believe that wars are caused by our own "HATRED". More likely, these vast acts of human sacrifice are caused by love -- too much love for leaders!

Germans hate the French who hate the British who hate the Turks who hate the Italians who hate the Russians who hate the Austro-Hungarians who hate the Jews, and that, we're told, is what led to World War I. And so we go around beating our breasts, feeling guilty about "Hatred". We dream that everyone will live happily after as soon as we learn how to repress our "Negative Emotions".


Our rulers and leaders encourage us to immerse ourselves in the PERSONAL and the EMOTIONAL, because we are then blind to the real causes of war: the rulers themselves, their greed, their incompetence, their ideology, and their dementia.

We forget that it is not the ORDINARY people who wanted World War I: It is the rulers. THEY are the ones who set up this human sacrifice.

Ordinary people participated in this stupid sacrifice not because they hated one another, but because their love for kings and kaisers, czars and emperors, statesmen and presidents stripped them of common sense and left them blind.


It is not hate that we need to fear: It is blinding love.

It is not hatred that causes the lemmings to march into the sea: It is love for their Great Lemming Leader. When the lemming leader speaks, lemming brains get scrambled.



My message to Draco is that Quebec is NEEDED. We need Quebec's perspective and input. Nationalism CAN be an evil, but it doesn't have to be.
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#36 farmer

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 02:18 AM

Originally posted by NonZionist
Thanks for your message, farmer. Welcome! I hope to see many more posts from you, here. :)




I especially like your signature line.

+(
May the good earth be preserved from those who follow leaders.
)+


WW I, which I was just writing about, illustrates your point nicely. Our leaders want us to believe that wars are caused by our own "HATRED". More likely, these vast acts of human sacrifice are caused by love -- too much love for leaders!

Germans hate the French who hate the British who hate the Turks who hate the Italians who hate the Russians who hate the Austro-Hungarians who hate the Jews, and that, we're told, is what led to World War I. And so we go around beating our breasts, feeling guilty about "Hatred". We dream that everyone will live happily after as soon as we learn how to repress our "Negative Emotions".


Our rulers and leaders encourage us to immerse ourselves in the PERSONAL and the EMOTIONAL, because we are then blind to the real causes of war: the rulers themselves, their greed, their incompetence, their ideology, and their dementia.

We forget that it is not the ORDINARY people who wanted World War I: It is the rulers. THEY are the ones who set up this human sacrifice.

Ordinary people participated in this stupid sacrifice not because they hated one another, but because their love for kings and kaisers, czars and emperors, statesmen and presidents stripped them of common sense and left them blind.


It is not hate that we need to fear: It is blinding love.

It is not hatred that causes the lemmings to march into the sea: It is love for their Great Lemming Leader. When the lemming leader speaks, lemming brains get scrambled.



My message to Draco is that Quebec is NEEDED. We need Quebec's perspective and input. Nationalism CAN be an evil, but it doesn't have to be.


.............................................

I hear you NonZionist.................
I guess I come from a feminist/farmer perspective. Nothing is as fine as the planet. I get very combative when I see stupid secondary things like "culture" and politics and "power" dictating human behaviour. (I'm thinking DU in Iraq right now especially. How can any mortal who identifies with "values" or the term "humane" even entertain the idea of uranium-izing and entire country much less doing it??????)).......never mind the pharmaceutical company's multivarious misdemeanors against the well being of humanity etc ...ie the "feminizing" of the waterways to the extent that male trout are changing into females....!

How dumb can we get?

What is the matter with the (largely), male brains that lead this world?

I have concluded that they just don't care OR care to apply them (their brains). Therefore I am their enemy..........(small bite that it may register).

Anyway thanks for the "kudos".

May the internet help provide a reality check to the myopea of "leaders".
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#37 Draco_Annie

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 03:27 AM

Originally posted by NonZionist
Thanks, Draco. This is just the sort of reply I was hoping for.



I'm sorry, my first reply was quite emotional and I may have overreacted.

You know, before the "Quiet Revolution" of the late sixties here in Québec, when we spoke French, Anglos would ridicule us and tell us to "speak white", that they didn't understand our mumblings and a whole lot of insulting remarks.

All signs were in English, all notices on food and everywhere were in English. We didn't understand (well I did, from my Irish mother, but the people didn't).

We fought hard and won. Look, today all our road signs are in French and French has become Québec's official language.

We came a long way... in a short time. And there's no way we'll go backwards. Today, we have Asians, Africans, people from around the world who settle in this province and make the effort of learning and are proud to speak French, and this society has been enriched in its culture from other people's cultures which intermingles with ours. It's great to live here.


As you know, our American founders fought against the British Empire, and received support from France. My view of the world is parallel to theirs.



Exactly. British were brutal colonianists. In India, they forced the people to walk on all fours, all the time to show their obedience. No one will ever forget their iron fists. But one thing is undeniable, they sure had a lot more class than today's american colonianist wannabees.
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#38 NonZionist

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 04:04 PM

Originally posted by farmer
....
May the internet help provide a reality check to the myopea of "leaders".






:)

On a recent visit to Canada (Ontario), I spoke with various people about the political situation here in the U.S.I.. Most regarded the U.S.I. as an embarrassment -- obnoxious, stupid, repulsive, misguided, but basically benign. Only one Canadian understood that things are NOT benign here, and he was a farmer. He correctly characterized the U.S.I. as a pre-"fascist" state.


Farmers are depicted as "provincial" or insular, yet farmers are often far more informed about world events than their nine-to-five counterparts are.

The nine-to-five guy goes home every night, turns on tv, forgets about the real world, and gets his brain poisoned with paranoia and stereotypes. The farmer, in contrast, has to sell his commodities, so he has to care about the international markets and the REAL world, and he doesn't have a lot of time for the propaganda on tv.

Moreover, the farm itself teaches self-reliance, independence, stewardship and realism: Brainwashed human beings in the nine-to-five world may thrive on the empty calories of war propaganda, but cows do not: The cows need SUBSTANCE!

Maintaining a farm requires lots of physical work, and work provides opportunities for contemplation and spiritual growth.

In other words, I envy you! You are blessed!




I'm not QUITE as supportive of feminism, however -- not as supportive as I used to be. Feminism is a form of "identity politics", and, as such, it compartmentalizes people and fosters xenophobia.


Most feminists, I believe, regard MEN as The Enemy. Yet we men are just as much victims of our materialistic spiritually dead culture as women are. Our culture discourages us from becoming spiritual or political pioneers. Instead, we are socialized into becoming drones and cannon-fodder.


The War System uses us, then loses us -- supports us when we attack, then discards us when we come back. We come back as trained killers, sociopaths, spiritually or physically maimed. It takes us a long time to sort ourselves back out.

In the meantme, we pass our inculcated war-mania onto our male children. They grow up wanting to be like us -- wanting to kill and destroy.


It's true that we men are often aggressors, and everyone denounces aggressors, but ask yourself whether you would want to trade places with an aggressor. Would you want blood on YOUR hands? Would YOU want to be crazy in that way?

I know I'd rather be a victim than a perpetrator. As a victim, at least I have mind and soul intact. At least I can live with myself.


Our unofficial state religion also contributes to male derangement. We're told that God is a man! This Old Testament god -- this punitive capricious megalomaniacal monster -- serves as the male archetype, the initial male role model!


Women are the biggest supporters of this genocidal Judeoxian "religion", this Old Testament cult. Other women embrace apolitical "New Age" superstition that is not much better: They lose themselves in unreality.

Real religion is about liberation and depth. Where false religions DEhumanize, real religion HUMANIZES and transforms. The transformation is PHYSICAL -- integrative, healing, calming, joy-producing.


Many women also support the political system and its wars. They VOTE for the men and tend to choose male candidates over female candates. They cheer the men on. They swallow the propaganda and take it to heart. They believe the lies. They sew the flags and sometimes wave them.


Women are often "afraid to rock the boat". They give unthinking support to the "mainstream", the status quo, the "center". Unfortunately, the "center" is DEFINED by the government and its war machine. It's the geometrical center of POWER, not the MORAL center. Morally, the "center" can be extreme, inhuman.


Women tend to eschew dissident political partcipation and discussion: Thus they leave us defenseless against the system and its corruption. The gangster system is then free to walk all over us.




However, it's not my aim here to condemn women! I merely wish to refute the "feminist" contention that all of the problems in this world come from MEN. In reality, the problems are the result of a JOINT effort. Men and women are BOTH complicit.

This is actually good news, because it means that women do not have to wait for men to change. Women have the POWER to improve society right now, not by improving men but by improving themselves and by setting an example that men may eventually want to follow.


I realize too that my critical remarks do not apply to ALL women. I judge people as individuals, not as members of a sexual, racial, national, or religious collective. And that is precisely why I have reservations about feminism. Some women are good, some bad, and most are a mixture of good and bad. Deep and patient self-awareness takes the bad and transforms it into good; unfortunately, BOTH sexes are lacking in such awareness.

When feminism promotes UNIVERSAL values and speaks to EVERYBODY in a non-divisive way, it is beyond reproach. But when it attempts to shift responsibility (and power!) AWAY from women and onto men, it is injurious.
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#39 NonZionist

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Draco_Annie
I'm sorry, my first reply was quite emotional and I may have overreacted.

You know, before the "Quiet Revolution" of the late sixties here in Québec, when we spoke French, Anglos would ridicule us and tell us to "speak white", that they didn't understand our mumblings and a whole lot of insulting remarks.

All signs were in English, all notices on food and everywhere were in English. We didn't understand (well I did, from my Irish mother, but the people didn't).

We fought hard and won. Look, today all our road signs are in French and French has become Québec's official language.

We came a long way... in a short time. And there's no way we'll go backwards. Today, we have Asians, Africans, people from around the world who settle in this province and make the effort of learning and are proud to speak French, and this society has been enriched in its culture from other people's cultures which intermingles with ours. It's great to live here.


Exactly. British were brutal colonianists. In India, they forced the people to walk on all fours, all the time to show their obedience. No one will ever forget their iron fists. But one thing is undeniable, they sure had a lot more class than today's american colonianist wannabees.





Again, thanks for the history lesson. I need it, and it's very helpful.


The fact that we Americans have less "class" is a hopeful sign, because it means that our empire will be short-lived.


The ART of imperialism is not ingrained in our culture -- and that is good.

When British troops went to a colony, they went to STAY. They became the government. They reshaped the host country, from the ground up, and brought the host country into conformance with British prejudices, which were deep and highly articulate.

When American troops go to a colony, they want to LEAVE. They want to "get the job over with" as quickly as possible. So they are more inclined to use "excessive force" -- i.e., savage violence.


This crude approach does not exactly endear America to the victims. As a result, the world is now uniting against the U.S.I., and uniting against empire.

So it's good that we Americans are not terribly subtle!


Perhaps one can say that the British Empire was like the early Roman Empire -- violent, but vigorous, self-confident, culturally alive. The U.S.I. Empire is then like the late Roman Empire -- self-absorbed, decadent, stupid. So the end of empire is nigh.


But what will replace the empire? -- that is the question. Will it be a new "Dark Age"? Or wll some miracle bring truly civilized forces to power?
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#40 Draco_Annie

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 02:19 AM

Tks Cogito for this brief summary of the history of Spain.

Spain is now respected throughout the world for having shown backbone and dignity in the face of evil.

If only more countries could grow one too...:D
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