For those of you who mention Communism and Killing in one and the same breath... - Page 17

vdesi · 11-06-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhurnalist

I have noticed a few wannabe internet forum historians-cum-intellectual experts, suh! making posts about Communism and killing/massacres and soon as if they were one and the same thing.

By the same token we would have to blame the economic and social system in place in Imperialist countries and blame this for the massacres perpetrated under their rule

We would have to blame Presbyterianism for Cromwell's massacres in Wexford and Drogheda

We would have to blame the incipient market economy in France for the massacre of the Huguenots

And so on...

Communism is an economic and social model, not a means of control. If you want to measure Communism and tie in developmental vectors in societal evolution, then you would have to measure the state in which Russia was situated in 1917 and perform a comparative development over time, examining the industrialization, politization, economic and social development and then see what happened elsewere following the same vectors.

Your post was indeed refreshing.

Only one word came to mind ...Pravda.

macanese · 11-07-2009, 12:50 AM

This timely report is an answer to Lyndon LaRouche's alarming 'genocide' plan to reduce the world's population by 70% (sic.)

George Monbiot wrote about "THE POPULATION MYTH", it was posted a month ago:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article162471.html

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2000...george-monbiot

Armando Rozário ¹²³ Cabo Frio, Brazil - November 06, 2009.

P.S. According to Monbiot, the world's population may reach 10 billion, LaRouche's report inferred that it may be reduced to 2 billion!

Bilbo Baggins · 11-07-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhurnalist

Historyman

what difference does a man's origins make to his choice of politico-social-economic model?

Communism developed many backward economies very fast. Communism is about development, not killing people.

Exactly right-for the benefit of all(or at least vast majority)-especially when you read original definition of Karl Marx.

porky · 11-08-2009, 08:06 AM

Development?

Development of what? The economy? Social justice? Industry?

If Communism is about development, then why are countries like Cambodia and Ethiopia still considered under-developed? Are China and Russia at the top of the heap of developed countries? How do you explain the economies of countries like Chile or Spain, which developed under quasi-fascist regimes? Or the United States, which I am sure you consider quasi-fascist as well.

Is not Communism just a form of fascism, one which lies to the workers and tells them that they are in charge? While creating an elite that saps all the workers efforts for the benefit of that same elite?

No - I don't buy it. Development is not the goal of Communism.

852369 · 11-09-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porky

Development?

Development of what? The economy? Social justice? Industry?

If Communism is about development, then why are countries like Cambodia and Ethiopia still considered under-developed? Are China and Russia at the top of the heap of developed countries? How do you explain the economies of countries like Chile or Spain, which developed under quasi-fascist regimes? Or the United States, which I am sure you consider quasi-fascist as well.

Is not Communism just a form of fascism, one which lies to the workers and tells them that they are in charge? While creating an elite that saps all the workers efforts for the benefit of that same elite?

No - I don't buy it. Development is not the goal of Communism.

Nobody is selling story piggy. Capitalism in Iraq is good start to see how devastating and criminal is your system.........do your homework please.

Sovest · 11-09-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhurnalist

I have noticed a few wannabe internet forum historians-cum-intellectual experts, suh! making posts about Communism and killing/massacres and soon as if they were one and the same thing.

By the same token we would have to blame the economic and social system in place in Imperialist countries and blame this for the massacres perpetrated under their rule

We would have to blame Presbyterianism for Cromwell's massacres in Wexford and Drogheda

We would have to blame the incipient market economy in France for the massacre of the Huguenots

And so on...

Communism is an economic and social model, not a means of control. If you want to measure Communism and tie in developmental vectors in societal evolution, then you would have to measure the state in which Russia was situated in 1917 and perform a comparative development over time, examining the industrialization, politization, economic and social development and then see what happened elsewere following the same vectors.

Correct, words "Communism" and "killings" are not the same things. With that being said, a lot of killings took place during Communist rule both as part of repressions internally as well as during the spread of socialism to nearby countries.

Coastal · 11-09-2009, 11:40 PM

On this, the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, you commies might want to ask yourselves one question....

Why is it that only communist countries seem to find it necessary to build walls, enact legislation and restrict free travel in order to keep their citizens from escaping??

ancient nation · 11-10-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coastal

On this, the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, you commies might want to ask yourselves one question....

Why is it that only communist countries seem to find it necessary to build walls, enact legislation and restrict free travel in order to keep their citizens from escaping??

is israel communist?...

852369 · 11-10-2009, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coastal

On this, the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, you commies might want to ask yourselves one question....

Why is it that only communist countries seem to find it necessary to build walls, enact legislation and restrict free travel in order to keep their citizens from escaping??

Well this is capitalist wall in Palestine?

are you dumb?

who said walls are build by communists only?

joebiden · 11-10-2009, 10:35 AM

Private interests, self-esteems, selffish, self-interest lving life style are all kind movements of U.S. System run of American capitalism & imperialism and for its final destination of terrorism that has been proven over time as to U.S. Situation now – particularly when the 24x7 Operative U.S. Domestic terror attack & Global Terror Attack Covert Operation is proven to all international public views. Let say the truth that U.S. Still keeps running strategic & tactical sabotage operations against countries and people in uses of conventional means and non-conventional weaponry. Conventional means are all kind of terrible terror attack & sabotage vectors of U.S. CIA has run all the time. Non-conventional means is in talking on its most sophisticated terror attack weaponry systems of direct beams can high precisely intercontinental target and attack engage on individuals & infrastructures that all are almost total sensitive to be suffered terribly in effective attack & driving forces of this weaponry of U.S. U.S. Can in real time bring down any plane to malfunction for crash when it directs beams on the plane to attack on electronics & electric onboard system and on flight crew and flight customers. It is a clear view on it to the truth operative existence out there.

Regarding to American terrorism, americans are doing all kind of terror attacks and new powerful attack & control weaponry in attempt to threaten countries & people so that they should better to knee to U.S. Otherwise they are in terrible shape.

Saying on terrorism U.S. Playing down on some group forces, there is another side for good when there are forces in gravely and strongly defending their invaded lands, their controlled & shattered people from the terrible worse & harmful controls of U.S. They really caused scary to Americans & U.S. System run, but for good courses & causes – that is kind of matching to the great defensive rule 'You cross the line, We crush you."

--------------- FINAL DECISSION = MOVE on PROPER COMMUNISM to Marx-Lenin & ... ------

Nemesis · 11-10-2009, 10:58 AM

Greedy people, after getting a free education under Communism wanted to go and make big bucks in the west.

There is no shortage of greedy people, no Coastal?

You will find many "freedom" seekers had most questionable reasons for going to the west. How about Nuryev? Why did he go to the west? What kind of "freedom" was he looking for?

Coastal · 11-10-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Greedy people, after getting a free education under Communism wanted to go and make big bucks in the west.

There is no shortage of greedy people, no Coastal?

There certainly isn't...

....and there never will be.

Just one of a myriad of reasons why communism can never be practically implemented.

+Michail+ · 11-10-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coastal

There certainly isn't...

....and there never will be.

Just one of a myriad of reasons why communism can never be practically implemented.

It is obvious that you have read and carefully studied the Communist Manifesto of Marx and Engels

Just in case though, take a look at it and consider the socioeconomic conditions of the era that was written and then we can re discuss.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...ist-manifesto/

It is true that this political system is hard be practically implemented today but not for the reasons you mentioned or you think... and Stalinism may not necessarily mean Communism.. but i am sure you know that

hanlewis · 11-11-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by +Michail+

It is obvious that you have read and carefully studied the Communist Manifesto of Marx and Engels

Just in case though, take a look at it and consider the socioeconomic conditions of the era that was written and then we can re discuss.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...ist-manifesto/

It is true that this political system is hard be practically implemented today but not for the reasons you mentioned or you think... and Stalinism may not necessarily mean Communism.. but i am sure you know that

Just extending a bit your post, with Marx's "The Capital", you can read it online, English and Portuguese versions (French available for download, but the index has more languages, authors and works):
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/
http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/261/1294/frameset.html
http://www.marxists.org/portugues/ma...l-v1/index.htm
http://www.marxists.org/francais/marx/works.htm

Coastal · 11-11-2009, 07:38 AM

Interesting little documentary about the impact of the Beatles in the Soviet Union from the 60's through the 80's. If you've got an hour to kill, it's worth the watch...

How the Beatles Rocked The Kremlin

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fUu6gyryc

2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wYi9...eature=related

3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGNCC...eature=related

4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2oKF...eature=related

5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJphZ...eature=related

6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNlG...eature=related

11-07-2009, 12:50 AM	#242
macanese Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,749	THE POPULATION MYTH - By George Monbiot - October 10, 2009 This timely report is an answer to Lyndon LaRouche's alarming 'genocide' plan to reduce the world's population by 70% (sic.) George Monbiot wrote about "THE POPULATION MYTH", it was posted a month ago: http://www.voltairenet.org/article162471.html http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2000...george-monbiot Armando Rozário ¹²³ Cabo Frio, Brazil - November 06, 2009. P.S. According to Monbiot, the world's population may reach 10 billion, LaRouche's report inferred that it may be reduced to 2 billion! Last edited by macanese : 11-07-2009 at 12:55 AM.

11-09-2009, 11:40 PM	#247
Coastal Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Morro Bay, California Posts: 8,862	On this, the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, you commies might want to ask yourselves one question.... Why is it that only communist countries seem to find it necessary to build walls, enact legislation and restrict free travel in order to keep their citizens from escaping?? __________________ Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top.

11-10-2009, 10:35 AM	#250
joebiden Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Eat USA Posts: 1,455	Private interests, self-esteems, selffish, self-interest lving life style are all kind movements of U.S. System run of American capitalism & imperialism and for its final destination of terrorism that has been proven over time as to U.S. Situation now – particularly when the 24x7 Operative U.S. Domestic terror attack & Global Terror Attack Covert Operation is proven to all international public views. Let say the truth that U.S. Still keeps running strategic & tactical sabotage operations against countries and people in uses of conventional means and non-conventional weaponry. Conventional means are all kind of terrible terror attack & sabotage vectors of U.S. CIA has run all the time. Non-conventional means is in talking on its most sophisticated terror attack weaponry systems of direct beams can high precisely intercontinental target and attack engage on individuals & infrastructures that all are almost total sensitive to be suffered terribly in effective attack & driving forces of this weaponry of U.S. U.S. Can in real time bring down any plane to malfunction for crash when it directs beams on the plane to attack on electronics & electric onboard system and on flight crew and flight customers. It is a clear view on it to the truth operative existence out there. Regarding to American terrorism, americans are doing all kind of terror attacks and new powerful attack & control weaponry in attempt to threaten countries & people so that they should better to knee to U.S. Otherwise they are in terrible shape. Saying on terrorism U.S. Playing down on some group forces, there is another side for good when there are forces in gravely and strongly defending their invaded lands, their controlled & shattered people from the terrible worse & harmful controls of U.S. They really caused scary to Americans & U.S. System run, but for good courses & causes – that is kind of matching to the great defensive rule 'You cross the line, We crush you." --------------- FINAL DECISSION = MOVE on PROPER COMMUNISM to Marx-Lenin & ... ------ __________________ Dark Corner should a look

11-10-2009, 10:58 AM	#251
Nemesis Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris, France Posts: 9,908	Greedy people, after getting a free education under Communism wanted to go and make big bucks in the west. There is no shortage of greedy people, no Coastal? You will find many "freedom" seekers had most questionable reasons for going to the west. How about Nuryev? Why did he go to the west? What kind of "freedom" was he looking for? __________________ And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here...And it smells of sulfur still today." Hugo Chavez on war criminal bush. ------- Putin and Medvedev supporter

11-11-2009, 07:38 AM	#255
Coastal Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Morro Bay, California Posts: 8,862	Interesting little documentary about the impact of the Beatles in the Soviet Union from the 60's through the 80's. If you've got an hour to kill, it's worth the watch... How the Beatles Rocked The Kremlin Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fUu6gyryc 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wYi9...eature=related 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGNCC...eature=related 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2oKF...eature=related 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJphZ...eature=related 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNlG...eature=related __________________ Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top.

11-08-2009, 08:06 AM	#244
porky Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,171	Development? Development of what? The economy? Social justice? Industry? If Communism is about development, then why are countries like Cambodia and Ethiopia still considered under-developed? Are China and Russia at the top of the heap of developed countries? How do you explain the economies of countries like Chile or Spain, which developed under quasi-fascist regimes? Or the United States, which I am sure you consider quasi-fascist as well. Is not Communism just a form of fascism, one which lies to the workers and tells them that they are in charge? While creating an elite that saps all the workers efforts for the benefit of that same elite? No - I don't buy it. Development is not the goal of Communism.

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