30 replies to this topic

[vigorous]

[quote]Almost to a man, these Iraqis said they wanted the Iraqi dictator removed. Better still, they said

[uglybastard]

And the peacnics would keep that bastard in power.

How they must hate the enslaved Iraqi people!

[vigorous]

Of course, you have read this piece and you
know this is just speculation ...but informed
speculation it is and it cannot be ruled out.

Then what would the critics say?

[MirrorMan]

Depends on who you ask.

If you ask Cubans living in Florida about Castro, you will get the impression that Castro can be removed by a handfull of U.S. marines. Kennedy also believed that, and that's why he approved the bay of pigs invasion.

[vigorous]

Did you read the piece to see just who's saying these
sorts of things?

[CapedCrusader]

I must say the Iraqis shown on television today celebrating the huge demonstrations which occurred all over the world, seemed quite happy that it reduced the chances of the US liberators turning up.

[Missouri Mule]

"Kennedy also believed that, and that's why he approved the bay of pigs invasion."

Kennedy was supposedly blind sided by the Bay of Pigs. This was a botched job from the get go and no follow-up was done to ensure the job was completed. Had the Democrats not stolen the election in Chicago with the Daley machine, Nixon would have been the president. He would have been well aware of the project and would have carried it out to a completion, in my view. Then the neo-Communists here would have something else to bitch about. (That we interfered)

[vigorous]

<sigh>

Another shooter-of-the-messenger whose
rutted thinking allows of no lateral thought
and who ASSUMES the Powellesque
overwhelming use of force

Putin said 'reasonable' use of force is what may
be needed.

[Missouri Mule]

It is most probable that the people will be largely uninvolved. There will be a few loyalists but the majority will be like the blank faces in the death camps of Nazi Germany. They will begin to assimilate freedom over a period of time before they really come to believe it. I seriously doubt there will be much resistance. The psyops that will be implemented prior to the invasion will be unprecedented.

[vigorous]

We get programming like that consistently from CBC.

If you liked that, then in the archives of As it Happens,
you will find more.
Those archives are located here.

[SmallMind]

Originally posted by vigorous
When the Enemy Is a Liberator

Its all true white boy.

But they might also want some bacon for their after war party.

[SmallMind]

Originally posted by ImperalistSwine
It is most probable that the people will be largely uninvolved. There will be a few loyalists but the majority will be like the blank faces in the death camps of Nazi Germany. They will begin to assimilate freedom over a period of time before they really come to believe it. I seriously doubt there will be much resistance. The psyops that will be implemented prior to the invasion will be unprecedented.

You cant be as stupid as you type.

Or can you?

[zxb]

"American forces would be met in Baghdad by Iraqis lining the street in celebration"

This title in misleading. Some Iraqis will welcome US troops and some won't. The relatives of the 1500 or so people killed in that Baghdad air raid shelter are unlikely to welcome US troops. Some people welcomed troops in Kabul, but many didn't as the spate of attacks on coalition troops proves.

Problem is, we see the people who do welcome foreign troops in the streets through our media, and this obscures the ones who are not welcoming the troops, after all, if the unwelcoming people are inside their houses instead of on the streets cheering they cannot be seen or taken into account.

Vig, can I know where these interviews were actually made? Not subcribing to the NYT.

[uglybastard]

I'm telling you cynics, you don't understand the power of freedom.

==============

But it is not the rapidity of an American victory alone that sustains the hopes of these Arab rulers. The pro-American Arab leaders are confident of something that invites mockery among the Europeans and Americans who oppose any war: that American troops would arrive in Iraq's major cities as liberators.

When Gen. Tommy R. Franks, the American commander in the Middle East, visited one Arab palace in recent weeks, Western diplomats reported, the Arab ruler quieted his restive courtiers by predicting that American forces would be met in Baghdad by Iraqis lining the street in celebration.

If that happens, anti-American opinions in the Arab world might swing, these rulers hope. There would then be revelations about the extent of what Mr. Hussein has inflicted on his people in 23 years. Just as the worst abuses of the Taliban and Al Qaeda were revealed after they were chased from Kabul and Kandahar, the full horrors of Mr. Hussein may be known only after his downfall.

That, America's friends in the Arab world believe, might yet be enough to remake Mr. Bush's image in places where he is now vilified, as if Iraq's miseries were his fault more than they have been Mr. Hussein's.

[SmallMind]

ugly the only people who still belives the crap you americans spew out will be the breakfast food of champions. Now those pygmies havent had a chance to see your real lives in action.

Maybe you can go show them.

[traveller]

How many Germans, no matter how anti-Hitler, really thanked the Americans for bombing Berlin and Dresden, or the Russians for raping their way to the Reichstag?

well azov, when I was there about 99%

[vigorous]

How much was the duct tape today xGenie?

[Marko]

Originally posted by vigorous
Of course, you have read this piece and you
know this is just speculation ...but informed
speculation it is and it cannot be ruled out.

Then what would the critics say?

Thanks Vig for pointing to that article.

(and sorry about tearing into you about the "anarchists should be happy" quote a few days ago - I was wrong about your opinion about things lately).

-Marko

PS. Oh, and while I see that azov has decided to field a slightly different objection to your citation of this article as opposed to mine (funny how he seems to point out here that many Iraqis want Saddam out, but when replying to me he wanted to stress that this was just a single report and shouldn't be construed as being representative... What? Might he be speaking out of his nether regions? :-) Here's my reply to him in the earlier thread:

---

I'm heartened that this is the best objection you can come up with to my post. Because as I've stated many times before, I've spoken to Iraqis and read what they have to say. And this represents the universal position of everyone I've talked to or everyone I've read.

Some vary by degrees, of course - some are more trusting of the US' intentions, while others dislike the US. Personal Iraqi friends here in Canada happen not to trust the US because of the double-cross they feel their people were dealt when after the '91 war anti-government forces were left hung out to dry. Nevertheless, they support the war and only fear that it fails to occur.

I don't raise these points in the forum hoping to deceive people by pulling out some sort of rare four-leafed clover, and stating that every one you'll find is four-leafed. No, I'm trying to point out to people who I think should be eminently reasonable, that their opinion is wrong-headed, and actually injurious to the goals they claim they espouse.

-Marko