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#1 grog

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:34 PM

Pope Francis calls to adjust line in ‘Our Father’ about ‘temptation’
 
 
 
Published time: 8 Dec, 2017 09:15
 
 
 
 

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#2 Atossa

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:05 PM




The antichrist pope is not only evil, he's demented and delusional.

God is in total control of everything.

God creates good vessels and evil vessels [evil vessels like poop francis created for the days of destruction.]


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#3 Kingranch

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:17 PM

Proposal to change from“lead us not into temptation.” to “do not let us fall into temptation” instead. How exactly is that evil?


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#4 RobertD

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:46 PM


Pope Francis calls to adjust line in Our Father about temptation
 
 
 
Published time: 8 Dec, 2017 09:15
 
http://theunhivedmin...out-temptation/
 
 
 


Jesus didn't get it quite right but no worries Frank here's gonna set it right.
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#5 Atossa

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 11:55 PM

Proposal to change fromlead us not into temptation. to do not let us fall into temptation instead. How exactly is that evil?



Did you not understand my previous post ??

The change replaces a Sovereign Autocratic God who is in absolute total control over His universe...
with a much lesser humanistic entity.


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Edited by Atossa, 08 December 2017 - 11:58 PM.

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#6 Desther

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:10 AM

Did you not understand my previous post ??

The change replaces a Sovereign Autocratic God who is in absolute total control over His universe...
with a much lesser humanistic entity.


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Untrue. "Do not let us" maintains the idea of YHVH's supreme power.

 

Remember that the English text is merely a translation, in this case from Koine Greek. Translation is as much an art as a science due to the interpretive nature of human language and the lack of word-for-word parity between languages.


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#7 Desther

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:13 AM

Furthermore, the "Lord's prayer" appears twice in the gospels:

 

Matthew chapter 6, verses 9 - 13

 

Pray like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 10 Let your Kingdom come. Let your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. 13 Let us not come into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. [For yours is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.]'

 

Luke chapter 11, verses 1 - 4

 

1 One day Jesus was in a place talking with God. When he had finished, one of his disciples said to him, `Lord, teach us to talk with God as John taught his disciples.'

2 Jesus said, `When you talk with God, say, "Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. May your kingdom come.

3 Give us our food day by day.

4 Forgive us for the wrong things we have done. We forgive everyone who has done wrong to us. Do not lead us to be tested."

 

"Lead us not into temptation" is how it was rendered in the King James bible, and as I recall, you have attacked that Bible, Atossa.


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#8 Atossa

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:36 AM


Untrue. "Do not let us" maintains the idea of YHVH's supreme power.



No it doesn't.

The whole purpose of the change is to limit God to a humanistic superhero who might prevent something bad from happening... as opposed to a Sovereign God who determines everything that happens, both good and bad.


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#9 Atossa

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:43 AM



The blaspheming pope wants to change the words, which not only changes the meaning, but also changes the fundamental nature of God.


Luke 11:4 - King James Version (KJV)


And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


Matthew 6:13 - King James Version (KJV)

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


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#10 Atossa

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:01 AM



Below is the topic article quote from blaspheming Francis.

" It is not him [God] who throws me into temptation and then watches how I fall God helps us get up,"
Francis added, "It's Satan who leads you into temptation."


As you can see... Frances is a dualist who believes in two demi-gods... one good and one evil... but neither has absolute power.

The Bible truth is... there is only one God, the God of Israel, who is totally Sovereign, has total power over all His creation and determines everything.

The word, satan, means adversary, that is all it means. God plays the adversary many times in the OT, like when God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. In Jesus' own temptation, the adversary was Jesus' own power as God to prevent His suffering and death that had been predestined from the foundations of the world.


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#11 Desther

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:50 AM

No it doesn't.

The whole purpose of the change is to limit God to a humanistic superhero who might prevent something bad from happening... as opposed to a Sovereign God who determines everything that happens, both good and bad.


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I see that the same translation differences occur in Russian.

 

13 Не дай нам поддаться искушению, но сохрани нас от дьявола (do not let us succumb to temptation) - Священное Писание (Восточный Перевод)

 

13 и не введи нас в искушение, но избавь нас от лукавого. (and do not lead us into temptation) - Russian Synodal Version (RUSV)

 

But based on the Greek:

 

13 και μη εισενεγκης ημας εις πειρασμον

 

και αφες ημιν τας αμαρτιας ημων και γαρ αυτοι αφιεμεν παντι οφειλοντι ημιν και μη εισενεγκης ημας εις πειρασμον αλλα ρυσαι ημας απο του πονηρου

 

http://biblehub.com/greek/1533.htm

 

eispheró: lit. or fig. to carry inward

Original Word: εἰσφέρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eispheró
Phonetic Spelling: (ice-fer'-o)
Short Definition: I lead into, bring in
Definition: I lead into, bring in, announce.

 

It would seem that "do not lead us" (or bring us) would be the more fitting translation, so I concede this point.


Edited by Desther, 09 December 2017 - 04:52 AM.

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#12 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 02:26 PM

Pope Francis Wants To Revise Lord’s Prayer To Include Satan
 
 
 
il_570xN.1000900669_1o8l.jpg
 
satanism-2.jpg
 
 
Baphomet-statue-detroit.jpg
 
 
176191_PENTANCLE_470x352.jpg
 

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#13 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:38 PM

https://engforum.pra...jesus-is-satan/


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#14 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

24e1895a6c9500078868a222e7874626--occult

paloma_faith_upside_down.jpg

 

df94aed82f88879f9fda93079632955c.jpg


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#15 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:55 PM

 
 

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#16 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:10 PM

 
 

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#17 grog

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:56 PM

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#18 Atossa

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:24 PM




Again.... the word, satan, means adversary... that is all it means.

Many times in the OT, God becomes the adversary to Israel... as when God hardened the heart of pharaoh.

God is the adversary who sends Gog/Magog against His own people [Aryan Israel, God's Christ-bearing people] because they are living in sinful rebellion.

The blaspheming pope may indeed know the wrath of God as the pope's adversary.

As the Bible says, "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."


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Edited by Atossa, 09 December 2017 - 08:25 PM.

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#19 Kingranch

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:36 PM

People! It's the intend and not the way you say it that counts! In John10-30, Jesus says; "I and my Father are one." So, God in heaven or earth like 'superhero' (as if Jesus was still on earth) it doesn't matter and your prayer will be answered as you hoped. I mean, Paul himself says; "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all." So, again, pray as you wish just don't babble and be conscious when you address Him. And always remember what His Son thought us: "Do not be like them because, for your Father he knows before you ask him."  

 

Lastly, you can pray in your heart without talking at all. Your heart and soul are easily heard by God.


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#20 Desther

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:22 AM

People! It's the intend and not the way you say it that counts! In John10-30, Jesus says; "I and my Father are one." So, God in heaven or earth like 'superhero' (as if Jesus was still on earth) it doesn't matter and your prayer will be answered as you hoped. I mean, Paul himself says; "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all." So, again, pray as you wish just don't babble and be conscious when you address Him. And always remember what His Son thought us: "Do not be like them because, for your Father he knows before you ask him."  

 

Lastly, you can pray in your heart without talking at all. Your heart and soul are easily heard by God.

 

The discussion is entirely academic to me. The Christian god is no more real than Zeus or any other such being imagined by humans. It is merely a question of what the authors had in mind when writing those words, and for that matter, what words they actually used.

 

As to whether it matters from a religious perspective how the prayer is phrased, evidently the current Pope feels that this does matter. I suppose it is a matter for the Roman Catholics to concern themselves with, and one more reason for Christians of other sects to condemn Roman Catholicism.


Edited by Desther, 10 December 2017 - 12:24 AM.

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