Jump to content

Theme© by Fisana
 

Photo

Asymmetrical electrical cricuits/systems:


  • Please log in to reply
210 replies to this topic

#201 RobertD

RobertD

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20984 posts

Posted 21 July 2018 - 09:40 AM

 

This guy is running the motor on 220v AC direct plug in. Works but no control.

He wants to use a 12v battery and invert it back to 220 AC .

These motors run very well on 12v DC and an ESC controller.

The coils are very heavy gauge wire, they can take a lot of abuse.

It can probably take 120v DC before heating up. He's using 5 amps to run the motor.

With the alternators pushing 100 amps each, I have a lot of spare power to run a heater,

wipers, AC, power windows, etc.


Edited by RobertD, 21 July 2018 - 09:58 AM.

  • 0

#202 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 21 July 2018 - 09:21 PM

It looks like that guy is having fun... but I'm not so sure he knows what he's doing.

 

There's 36 stators? How about an 18 pole stator.

 

What the heck were those meter readings? It looked like he was trying to read an ac voltage on a dc setting... or vice versa.

 

That was some sweet RPMs he was getting though, I'd like to see a tachometer reading.

 

I wonder what the torque rating is.

 

Getting some kind of speed control using 3-phase power is tricky, you need an appropriate SCR and controller circuit... it's much easier to control dc currents.


Edited by Vanka Savolov, 21 July 2018 - 09:22 PM.

  • 0

#203 RobertD

RobertD

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20984 posts

Posted 21 July 2018 - 10:13 PM

He's feeding 220v AC in the motor.

The motors come in 36 and 48 coils.
  • 0

#204 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 21 July 2018 - 10:23 PM

He's feeding 220v AC in the motor.

The motors come in 36 and 48 coils.

Yes, I get that: 220Vac 3-phase @ 50/60 Hz

 

I'm confusing myself... there is no difference if a stator or rotor is using electromagnetic coils or permanent magnets for their pole structures. That would be 36 poles but it's still just 'one' stator.

 

36 poles equals one pole for every 10 degrees of rotation, which is one of the factors that gives  these motors so much torque.

 

The other factor is that the rotor is 11 inches in diameter.


Edited by Vanka Savolov, 21 July 2018 - 11:02 PM.

  • 0

#205 RobertD

RobertD

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20984 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 04:19 AM

They're actually 12 x 12 x 12 coils in a Y configuration. Pretty much like a stepper motor. The driver has one pole pushing, one pole pulling, and one neutral. My truck cruises 110kph @ 2200rpm.
Him feeding 220 3phase direct doesn't have as much torque as with the driver bcz the driver reverses polarity on the second pole to double the torque.

.

Edited by RobertD, 22 July 2018 - 04:26 AM.

  • 0

#206 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 05:53 AM

They're actually 12 x 12 x 12 coils in a Y configuration. Pretty much like a stepper motor. The driver has one pole pushing, one pole pulling, and one neutral. My truck cruises 110kph @ 2200rpm.
Him feeding 220 3phase direct doesn't have as much torque as with the driver bcz the driver reverses polarity on the second pole to double the torque.

.

The Y configuration places each pole at 120 degrees opposite each other (instead of 180 degrees), but its phasing still happens every 10 degrees, which is where the number '18' comes in. Yes it's every bit a stepper motor.The 48 pole motor phases at every 7.5 degrees, and in a Y configuration, these poles are, (the best I can figure) 96 degrees opposite each other.

 

Each section of this Y configuration will have periods of neutrality where only two of these pole will be on at a time, which would look like sinusoidal wave forms chasing each other, when viewed on an O-scope. A three phase power source is the closes an ac current will come to equaling a dc current. That driver circuit you have is by far superior to that 3-phase driver.

 

That neutral pole can be used to brake the motor, which in effect would turn it into a generator. Instead of supplying these coils with power, you would 'load' them up with a resistive load or a charging circuit could be configured to charge an auxiliary battery.  If you wanted to use the motor as a brake for slowing/stopping the vehicle, a resistive load is the only way to go, as to rely on a charging circuit for such a purpose would mean that you'd have to have enough discharged batteries handy to constitute enough of a load to brake the motor. A fully charged battery will not offer any load upon a generator circuit making useless for that application.

 

When you say: "My truck cruises 110kph @ 2200rpm." are you saying that you have retrofitted one of these motors to your truck?

 

68 Mph is quite impressive for just one of these motors in service, that is, if such is the case.


  • 0

#207 RobertD

RobertD

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20984 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:27 AM

My truck is a chevy v6 it cruises at 110/2200rpm.

It's an observation that this would be suitable rpm for an electric motor.
  • 0

#208 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:57 AM

My truck is a chevy v6 it cruises at 110/2200rpm.

It's an observation that this would be suitable rpm for an electric motor.

There's micro-watt motors that spin at ten thousand RPM, but they'd never power a truck. It's the torque these motors deliver that's the real workhorse. There's many configuration to try that I'm fairly confident will have a desired effect. I figure that a minimum of two of these motors coupled together will deliver a likeable effect... where three motors would pretty much power most standard vehicles. Electric motors are powerful, and if configured right, have no power curve to build up to, like an internal combustion engine does. 

 

I'm not seeing where these motors couldn't deliver RPMs nearing six thousand or possibly more. And if a fly-wheel were to be incorporated into the system, they would be hard to lug, even under heavy loads, if geared right.

 

If a properly configured set of motors were to have a reduction of just 1.5:1, with a fly-wheel weighing about 50 lbs., you could hit a steep hill with a fairly heavy load and not notice much of a speed loss.

 

I'd love to dive right in to experimenting with all the ways these motors could be used. It would be fun to see just how large of a diameter one could design one of these motors at, and still have useful, workable dimensions, with which to retrofit to whatever. How about a rotor diameter of 18 inches (53cm) with 48 poles? Talk about torque... and then run it at 60Vdc. Just two of those coupled together would power anything, me thinks.


Edited by Vanka Savolov, 22 July 2018 - 07:08 AM.

  • 0

#209 RobertD

RobertD

    Registered User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20984 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 02:46 PM

Indeed. Even a 24" rotor, the main point to this though is the power supply. That's what makes everything possible. With two alternators in series, deliver 24v. Even bring it up to 48v when you need extra power. I don't know diameter of the 48 poles rotor.

Probly a bank of super caps like these could be put on line for extra juice.

https://www.ebay.com...itor/1958210083

Edited by RobertD, 22 July 2018 - 04:12 PM.

  • 0

#210 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 22 July 2018 - 06:36 PM

Now you're talking!... go big or stay home. :D

 

Absolutely, the power source and driver circuit(s) are the key to making these motors do things that may seem miraculous to many people. But it is, in reality, just the physics of things combined in a manner that's much more effective and efficient than what standard engineering is doing, or even seems to be aware of.

 

A 24 inch rotor would have a 'lever effect' of 1 foot from its extreme radius to the center of the shaft. Ft. lbs of torque could be easily observed when just turning the rotor with a finger. My brain is thinking somewhere on the order of 2,000 ft. lbs at low RPMs with a 24 inch rotor. A 24 inch rotor might be a bit large physically for some applications, engine compartments have only so much room, an half the motor's size would be sticking out the bottom-side, where the framework for the front-end suspension is. I haven't done any actual measurements, and so these are just some thoughts to consider. Course, one could always custom-build a motor and the vehicle it is intended for.

 

I've been checking into these 'new' super-caps and I see a lot of promise for many applications.

 

If you start with 24Vdc and then had a bank of these super-caps, it is possible to double the voltage to 48Vdc from the 24vdc source. Since higher voltage applications use less current, there's a chance that these super-caps can do more that just 'boost' the load... it may be possible to actually continually power the load. But first, asymmetrical principles must be applied wherever they can, to the driver circuit and whatever else that may come into play.

 

One pound of force applied to the end of a one foot lever, where the other end of the shaft the lever is attached to will apply how much force to a weight scale? A 1:1 ratio where one pound is placed upon the scale, said scale would read one pound. What happens to the scale reading when that same pound is placed at the extreme end of the one foot lever? It's not a trick question because it is well understood that levers are force multipliers... think about that. In this case the shaft bearing acts as the fulcrum, and of course, the rotor acts as the lever.

 

One pound of force applied to the end of a one foot lever, which is intended to drive a tire with a circumference of six feet (19 in. dia.) will, I'm sure cause said tire to turn with ease. 2,200 RPM @ a 1:1 ratio to a 19in. diameter tire will cause the vehicle it is driving to travel at 13,200 feet per minute... which is 150 Mph or 240 klicks (Kph).

 

I'm having a lot of fun just thinking about the possibilities.

 

Edit,: I figured the Mph to Kph wrong and so I made the correction.


Edited by Vanka Savolov, 22 July 2018 - 06:59 PM.

  • 0

#211 Vanka Savolov

Vanka Savolov

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1130 posts

Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:42 PM

The left instance shows an amp meter without any current being measured through it. There is nothing attached to it whatsoever and it still shows some current being measured. This is due to the fact that I have lights, ceiling fan, computer and computer monitor on, and within a relatively close proximity to the meter.

 

In the background, you are seeing the like-pole-effect device I use to demonstration the effect. 

 

In the second instance, I've placed the meter close to a set of magnets that are used in the device. You will notice a reading of 29.00 amps, when there is actually nothing even connected to the meter. That pale-green thing propping up the meter is a small ice cream dish... I could have just as easily hid a magnet beneath it and placed a wire within the meter's clamp and declared "see all the amps I'm generating?!"... when in fact, I am doing no such thing as generating high amps.

 

Beware, is all I'm saying.

 

fraud tricks.png


Edited by Vanka Savolov, 26 July 2018 - 08:25 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright © 2018 Pravda.Ru