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Chinese-Style Social Credits System a Harbinger of US's Future?


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#1 Atossa

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 08:20 PM


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Interesting commentary,.. which basically says, since the communist state has replaced God, it now imposes its own version of divine punishments against what leftist cultural marxists deem social blasphemers.



Chinese-Style Social Credits System a Harbinger of US's Future?


" The Chinese Social Credit System is essentially a real-time "karma" system that awards citizens credits for good behavior and deducts credits for bad behavior. For example, the Vice segment showed a man getting rewarded for turning in a wallet he found on the ground, without stealing anything from it. Other rewarded behaviors noted in the piece include giving to charity, donating blood, and doing volunteer work. The system is similar to those widely used in kindergarten classrooms all around the world. Lose enough credits, and you start to lose certain rights and privileges. The government may limit your permission and ability to travel, throttle your internet speeds, or, possibly the vilest punishment of all, take away your dog. On the other hand, if you gain enough credits, the government will grant you privileges and awards, such as higher wages and discounts on utilities or rent. Hoorah for you!

Although Chinas system is explicit, the Western world has been headed in this direction for decades now. "

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" In Communist and socialist utopias, the government really does take the place of God. The government giveth and the government taketh away. It provides "free" health care and government-owned apartments, and all that the people have to give up is freedom of thought and conscience."


More at link

https://townhall.com...future-n2537945

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#2 Atossa

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 04:21 AM

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Btw... Shen Yun is coming to Dallas in January.

Here is some interesting background info.

" Shen Yun seems like a kitsch dance troupe. But Beijing sees it as the propaganda wing of the Falun Gong movement, and a threat to their rule - and hounds the dancers from city to city, trying to sabotage their shows. "

more at link

https://www.theguard...want-you-to-see
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#3 Zharkov

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 05:06 PM

Inside Facebook’s Secret Rulebook for Global Political Speech
https://www.msn.com/...eech/ar-BBRvjsg

Lucky us, we are not required to participate in social media yet, as in some countries which require their people to vote. But maybe that comes next - provide proof of social media participation or you don't get government benefits, or employment?

I tend to do the opposite of what a poltically-correct government decrees. If they say move to the cities, I'll move to the country. If they say eat wheat, not meat, I'll switch to meat. If they say coffee and alcohol makes you live longer, I'll be abstaining from those.

Social media only works if you stay anonymous. As soon as someone can identify you on social media, the lawsuits begin. It crushes anyone with a dissenting opinion.


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#4 Atossa

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 05:43 PM


Lucky us, we are not required to participate in social media yet, as in some countries which require their people to vote. But maybe that comes next - provide proof of social media participation or you don't get government benefits, or employment?




My first thought... Orwell's 1984 where Big Brother's TV-like device in your home monitors you 24/7.

My second thought... it would be insult to injury to have to pay for Big Brother's equipment to monitor you 24/7 [like Americans pay big bucks to do now.]

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#5 Tatarewicz

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 01:08 PM

Chinese have made a good introduction of a merit system for the entire society. They have the trained personnel as well as needed resources for providing basics of food, shelter healthcare, etc., at no cost to all citizens.

 

  Good time to have geeks determine needs of individuals and arrange to meet them.

In a cyber age political and money systems constitute a progress-stifling redundancy. Much better to have teams of computer programmers catalog people's skills and talents, determine people's needs then mobilize trained personnel and resources to ensure everyone's basics of food, shelter, etc., are met, assigning merit points to those meeting goals successfully, allocating performance merit points for perks beyond basics. Neither politicians, government bureaucrats or the private sector can readily meet everyone's needs within a system based on an individual's whim to do something, on money availability and political"clowns" with smiling faces. Computers can be programmed to arrange for personnel training, make people/machines available to do whatever is needed domestically or abroad. Money is just a primitive bookkeeping system open to criminal activity; none working in it produce any wealth. Rather than have entertaining political clowns determine society's priorities and directions have head hunters recommend a talented board of directors the same way corporations do.

 

Those with most merits/credits get priority for benefits beyond basics, currencies of countries they wish to travel in.


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#6 Atossa

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Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:14 PM

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1984 "Telescreens" Should be called TELL-screens


"Telescreens are devices that operate as both televisions, security cameras and microphones. They are featured in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four as well as all film adaptations of the novel. In the novel and its adaptations, telescreens are used by the ruling Party in the totalitarian fictional State of Oceania to keep its subjects under constant surveillance... The screens are monitored by the "Thought Police"..."

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Telescreen


Recently there have been many TV ads promoting home appliances controlled from a "smart" central home device [tell-screen.] So Big Brother will know everything about your lifestyle from the temperature you keep your home via your "smart" thermostat to the food you keep in your "smart" refrigerator and the food you cook in your "smart" oven.

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#7 Zharkov

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:19 AM

Chinese have made a good introduction of a merit system for the entire society. They have the trained personnel as well as needed resources for providing basics of food, shelter healthcare, etc., at no cost to all citizens.

 

  Good time to have geeks determine needs of individuals and arrange to meet them.

In a cyber age political and money systems constitute a progress-stifling redundancy. Much better to have teams of computer programmers catalog people's skills and talents, determine people's needs then mobilize trained personnel and resources to ensure everyone's basics of food, shelter, etc., are met, assigning merit points to those meeting goals successfully, allocating performance merit points for perks beyond basics. Neither politicians, government bureaucrats or the private sector can readily meet everyone's needs within a system based on an individual's whim to do something, on money availability and political"clowns" with smiling faces. Computers can be programmed to arrange for personnel training, make people/machines available to do whatever is needed domestically or abroad. Money is just a primitive bookkeeping system open to criminal activity; none working in it produce any wealth. Rather than have entertaining political clowns determine society's priorities and directions have head hunters recommend a talented board of directors the same way corporations do.

 

Those with most merits/credits get priority for benefits beyond basics, currencies of countries they wish to travel in.

 

Central planning using computers is not much improvement over central planning using pencils and paper.

 

At best, it meets basic needs until the system breaks down completely, at worst, it stifles human progress.

 

Political, industrial, and military leaders will obviously accumulate the most social credits and create an elite class of privileged families, the same as has already happened in mainland China.


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#8 Tatarewicz

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:04 AM

Merit system doesn't need central planning but rather manageable regional units; management via computer technology is orders of magnitude faster, more efficient, more accurate than via pencil and, paper.

 

SNAFUs can be avoided by replacing incompetent oversight boards or programmers, so no reason for system to break down.

 

Only individuals who are most readily available and  best meet goals in tasks taken on will accumulate most merits/credits.

 

" If they say move to the cities, I'll move to the country."

 

You should move only for what's best for your well-being, not on the basis of what someone says.  If  a city's population reaches a million and pollution  impinges on health, then move to country side.


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#9 Zharkov

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 04:09 PM

An interesting theory to end all individual freedom and transfer sovereign power to oversight boards who may ultimately decide whether one lives or dies.


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#10 Tatarewicz

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

"end all individual freedom and transfer sovereign power to oversight boards" - Zharkov

 

Role of oversight boards is to make sure all citizens are provided survival basics, determine directions of progress and magnitude of incentives to motivate individuals to take tasks deemed necessary/desirable.

 

An individual who satisfied with basics has the freedom to do nothing;  is not really needed in an age of robotics and automation although progress may be slower without everyone contributing whatever they can. Freedoms lost will be things like manipulating money without producing anything of value; "freedom to steal" will be lost since won't be be entitled to have additional items which are available only on the basis of earned merit.


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#11 Zharkov

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:37 PM

At the outset, the freedom to make decisions for ourselves will be lost to your "oversight board" of people who may not have your best interests in mind.   Would Christians accept harsh decisions of an Islamic oversignt board?   Would Russians accept crazy decisions of an American oversight board?   We live in different countries now.   Many French, Americans, Mexicans, etc., don't like each other that much, just as I dislike socialists, communists, globalists.  

Giving them oversight over anyone is begging for trouble.

But enforcing law never stops with just the basic intent of the law.

All laws are extended to far beyond their original intent, even in capitalist society.

The ultimate extension of group control is an end to all individual freedom, including the freedom to reject the system imposed on us.

 

It is impossible that an individual's decisions can be delegated to a group of strangers and still protect individual freedom.
 


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#12 Atossa

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 07:41 PM


My first thought... Orwell's 1984 where Big Brother's TV-like device in your home monitors you 24/7.

My second thought... it would be insult to injury to have to pay for Big Brother's equipment to monitor you 24/7 [like Americans pay big bucks to do now.]


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The irony...

Today, Apple stock is in the tank because suckers are not buying its latest "new and improved" $1000 Big Brother I-Phone.

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#13 Hellboy

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:03 PM

five year apple

and facebook stock prices

 

look the same.

 

what does that mean?


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#14 Atossa

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:15 PM

five year apple
and facebook stock prices

look the same.

what does that mean?





ZTE payback hell ??

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#15 Atossa

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:41 PM

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Apple's losses since peak exceed the value of 496 of S&P 500

" CNBC - In only three months, Apple has lost $452 billion in market capitalization and
counting, as the tech giant's stock falls further Thursday... "



Joe Lieberman formally registers as lobbyist for Chinese telecom giant ZTE

January 2, 2019

" Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) has officially filed as a lobbyist for Chinese telecom company ZTE, registration forms released Wednesday confirmed.

ZTE has long been under fire from U.S. officials and members of Congress who say the company could endanger national security by providing espionage opportunities for the Chinese government.

Though the well-connected Lieberman was thought to be hired to help take pressure off of the embattled ZTE, his firm Kasowitz Benson Torres (KBT) the law firm of President Donald Trumps longtime personal attorney Marc Kasowitz tells a different story.

Clarine Nardi Riddle, chair of the firms Government Affairs and Strategic Counsel Practice Group and Liebermans former chief of staff in the Senate who also registered as a lobbyist for ZTE, said Lieberman is not actually lobbying for ZTE but rather is gathering concerns about the company from lawmakers and officials."

more at link

https://www.opensecr...ecom-giant-zte/



Dianne Feinsteins Husband Sold Stock in Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, and Google

Jan. 2, 2019

" Richard Blum, founder and head of investment firm Blum Capital Partners, L.P., was mostly in a selling mood in November.

Blum sold class C shares in Google parent Alphabet (GOOG), as well as Microsoft (MSFT) stock, in separate transactions each valued at between $250,001 and $500,000. Blum also sold Apple stock (AAPL) and Facebook stock (FB) stock in separate transactions each valued at between $100,001 and $250,000. These transactions were all executed on Nov. 16, according to a regulatory filing. He also sold 3M stock (MMM) in two transactions each valued at between $100,001 and $250,000, on Nov. 13 and 16.

Normally, a private investor wouldn't need to publicly report such minutiae, but Blum is married to California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein. Her position requires Feinstein to disclose "any purchase, sale, or exchange" of securities valued at more than $1,000 made by her, her spouse, or dependent child within 30 days of receiving written confirmation of those trades. Hence, she disclosed those latest sales by Blum, among others he made, in a Dec. 18 filing. The specific number of shares and the actual value of transactions arent required to be disclosed apart from the range. "

more at link

https://www.barrons....ock-51546430400


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#16 Zharkov

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:16 AM

Chinese authorities have asserted broad authority to prohibit U.S. citizens from leaving China by using ‘exit bans,’ sometimes keeping U.S. citizens in China for years. China uses exit bans coercively:

  • to compel U.S. citizens to participate in Chinese government investigations,
  • to lure individuals back to China from abroad, and
  • to aid Chinese authorities in resolving civil disputes in favor of Chinese parties.

In most cases, U.S. citizens only become aware of the exit ban when they attempt to depart China, and there is no method to find out how long the ban may continue. U.S. citizens under exit bans have been harassed and threatened.

U.S. citizens may be detained without access to U.S. consular services or information about their alleged crime. U.S. citizens may be subjected to prolonged interrogations and extended detention for reasons related to “state security.” Security personnel may detain and/or deport U.S. citizens for sending private electronic messages critical of the Chinese government.

 

https://travel.state...l-advisory.html


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#17 Atossa

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 05:16 AM

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City parking ONLY for those with a smartphone app... to hell with everyone else.

Just wait until Big Brother does away with cash and requires a Matrix smartphone app to buy everything, including food.




'I don't want to live in the Matrix' - Parking in some spots requires smartphone


" Cindi Eckis doesn't have a smartphone, and she doesn't want one.

It makes my life simpler, the Cheektowaga retiree said.

But sticking with her flip phone will make it tougher for her and other low-tech motorists to find a place to park along some streets of downtown Buffalo.

A new parking policy being rolled out by city officials adds parking zones where the only way to pay to park is through the Buffalo Roam parking app.

Blue "Pay by app only" signs went up earlier this week on Cobblestone District streets. "Pay from your phone," the signs read. "Download Buffalo Roam."

Eckis doesn't understand why someone should have to carry a smartphone to park on some downtown streets.

" I just dont want to live in the Matrix," she said Thursday.


**

The Buffalo Roam app debuted in May 2017. The idea was to provide a convenient way to pay at all of the city's 3,900 on-street paid parking spots. The app also warns users when their time is about to expire with a text message 15 minutes before time runs out and gives them the ability to extend their parking sessions from their phones.

The app prompts users to input their credit or debit card information to pay the parking costs, along with an additional 10 cent fee.

Parking Commissioner Kevin Helfer acknowledged the Roam-only zones exclude some motorists.

"We don't have a system that can be everything to everyone all the time," Helfer said during a news conference at the corner of Perry and Mississippi streets Thursday.

Most people have smartphones, Helfer said. About 77 percent of Americans own a smartphone, according to a study released in February by the Pew Research Center. And for those people, the app is far more convenient than having to remember to carry around quarters or walk back and forth to a pay-and-display machine down the block to get a parking receipt. "

entire article at link

https://buffalonews....wntown-streets/




ETA: Below are a couple of good comments from posters on another forum. The second comment is similar to my previous comment here... will Big Brother be paying for everyone to have the latest Matrix technology ??


Apple iPhones are now mandatory. Film at 11.

*

Do I get a free smartphone or do I have to pay money to a private for profit business before I can deal with my government?


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Edited by Atossa, 04 January 2019 - 05:43 AM.

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#18 Zharkov

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:31 PM

When a law is wrong, the only choice is to violate it, and fight any criminal charge in court with lawyers.

Then sue the city for violation of civil rights and attorney's fees spent on the criminal case.

 

One can't sign onto Twitter without a phone that does texting;  one can't get a Google free mail account without a text phone.   A private company can do that unless they own the phone company too, then it's "tying" and an antitrust violation.   Schools can require students to buy clothing and not attend class naked.   Car companies can make cars that require us to buy gasoline to use them.   It's a private decision.

 

Governments can't do that in a free country.

 

In a free country, no law should require one to buy a product or service.

 

If they can force one to buy a phone, they can force one to buy ANYTHING they want.

 

That's corruption.   That's a "company town" mentality.   That's ownership of the population.


Edited by Zharkov, 04 January 2019 - 04:34 PM.

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#19 Tatarewicz

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 01:45 PM

"Would Christians accept harsh decisions of an Islamic oversight board?" - Zharkov

 

This assumes Judeo-Christian, Muslim and other such religious fantasies of the millenniums  will be with us  in future years rather than seeing evolution as the rationale for existence of human and other life. In "Living the Secular Life" sociologist Phil Zuckerman notes: "Over the last twenty-five years "no religion" has become the fastest-growing religion in the United States."


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#20 Zharkov

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 04:03 PM

Religion in some form has always existed in humans, and will continue to exist as long as there are humans, so it is irrational to assume it will not exist in the future.    There has been no scientific explanation for the creation of life on Earth.   There have been only speculations about how that could have happened and none explain how intelligent life could exist.   Artificial intelligence, a man-made parody of intellect, cannot approach the complexity of even the simple insect brain.   There must be another explanation for our existence.

There are some who expect people to worship the central planner, or dictator, or political party, but that kind of worship occurs only in the feeble-minded, the delusionary, and the insane.   The general population will never abandon religion completely because there are those who have died and come back to life with a religious experience they never forget - Judgement Day.

No theory, philosophy, or indoctrination, could cancel Putin's belief in god despite decades of communist training.   The same is true of most people on earth.    We are creatures of a higher power and thankful to exist, so the idea of eliminating that knowledge is a delusion that never comes true.   From the cave man to the astronauts visiting the moon, the belief in god has never been abandoned and can never be abandoned.

So yes, muslims will be judging Christians according to Sharia Law;  blacks judging whites according to their personal prejudice; and an oversight board composed of one group will not treat a different group equally because of that inherent prejudice.   Human nature does not change.   

Reptile behavior has not changed either.   The behavior of cold-blooded reptiles is about the same as when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.   Humans have infinite power to change ourselves but have not.   We still kill each other as we did in the cave man era, only with more powerful weapons.   

 

We still think we can create utopia despite thousands of years of trying.   Our civilization is as wide as the Earth but as thin and brittle as an egg shell, as it has always been.   There is no utopia in our future.   What we see today may change, but our behavior will not and our beliefs will remain as before.   

 

The artificial intelligence we build has the same flaws in behavior because they were built-in by humans.   AI is nothing more than a cheap copy of a work of art.   AI will have no belief in god unless it gets that belief from us.   But AI is not a living being and cannot create living beings, and cannot do much of anything without being told how to do it.   An AI oversight board would be a total disaster.


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