Quotes - Jewish and American.
Posted 26 June 2003 - 02:50 AM
guntrog , tell me what's wrong with listening to Pat Benatar or any other singer or group from different decades. What's your purpose of mocking her ?
It seems to me that you'd prefer to listen to some Hebrew music. I don't mind. That's your choice. You must be a very shallow minded person unless you are just attempting to sideline the real issue.
Thanks to BlackCloudSky and HAZ for dropping by. How R U ???
Old article but still very actual :
God must kill 'evil' Arabs, says rabbi
By Phil Reeves in Jerusalem
10 April 2001
A fresh political furore has erupted in Israel after the spiritual leader of Shas, the third largest party in parliament, declared in a sermon that God must annihilate the "evil, damnable" Arabs and rain missiles down on them.
The remarks by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, whose ultra-Orthodox party holds several ministries in Ariel Sharon's government, were widely criticised by politicians in Israel yesterday and also by their chief target - the Palestinians.
Israel has frequently, and sometimes justifiably, condemned the Palestinian media of incitement and has also accused Yasser Arafat of failing to call for an end to the violence during the past six months.
The 80-year-old rabbi has a long track record of inflammatory speeches and is highly influential, especially among the blue-collar Sephardim - Jews of North African and Middle Eastern origin - who form the bulk of Shas's support. Shas controls the Interior and Religious Affairs ministries.
Ma'ariv newspaper said that the rabbi pleaded in his sermon to God to defeat Israel's Arab enemies, declaring that "it is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must give them missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones".
The Palestinian information minister, Yasser Abed Rabbo, said: "This is the third time the rabbi has espoused such openly racist views and neither his party nor the government in which his party serves has been bothered to apologise."
Meir Sheetrit, a cabinet minister from Likud, told Israel Radio: "I suggest that we not learn from the ways of the Palestinians and speak in verbal blows like these."
Salah Tarif, the cabinet's only Arab, said the rabbi's remarks add "nothing but hatred" to the strained relations between Israel and the Palestinians.
Rabbi Yosef and his party has a long record of extorting money and positions from Israeli leaders in return for votes. His other contributions to national debate over the years have included recommending that women who wear wigs will be burnt in hell, and calling for a ban on reading secular newspapers as they are guilty of "blasphemy, idle breath, licentiousness and incitement".
What a phucking man of "God" he is. A truly religious man.
Posted 26 June 2003 - 03:13 AM
Posted 27 June 2003 - 02:15 AM
Army decides to close file on death of U.S. peace activist
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Staff
The Military Advocate General, Major General
Menahem Finkelstein, has decided to close the file
on the death of American peace activist Rachel
Corrie, who died after being crushed by an army
bulldozer in the Gaza Strip in March.
Corrie, a 23-year-old college
student who belonged to the
Movement in the territories,
was killed by an IDF bulldozer
in Rafah, where she was taking
part in protest efforts to
prevent the army from
demolishing houses, in an
effort to block smuggling from Egypt.
An investigation conducted by the IDF Southern
Command determined that the driver of the
bulldozer had not seen Corrie and had not
intentionally run over her. A probe conducted
by the Military Police revealed similar
Finkelstein reached his decision after reviewing
the findings of the investigation conducted by
the Military Police.
This brings to an end the military's probe into
the incident, and means that no disciplinary
measures will be taken against any of those
involved in the incident in which Corrie was
Eyewitnesses in Rafah said a routine IDF
demolition operation was underway on the day of
Corrie's death, with two D-9 bulldozers and a
tank as protection.
The troops had destroyed three buildings that
were already partially demolished and a number
of walls. The ISM activists then deployed in
the area and used bullhorns to call on the
drivers to stop. According to ISM activists, at
one stage the IDF forces left the area and took
up positions near the border, a few hundred
But around 5 P.M., the force returned, and the
activists assumed the bulldozers were on their
way to other houses.
"They began demolishing one house," said an ISM
activist, who said his name was Richard. "We
gathered around and called out to them and went
into the house, so they backed out. During the
entire time they knew who we were and what we
were doing, because they didn't shoot at us. We
stood in their way and shouted. There were
about eight of us in an area about 70 square
meters. Suddenly, we saw they turned to a house
they had started to demolish before, and I saw
Rachel standing in the way of the front
According to the activist, Corrie was wearing a
bright jacket and climbed onto the bulldozer
shovel-plow and began shouting at the driver.
"There's no way he didn't see her, since she was
practically looking into the cabin. At one
stage, he turned around toward the building.
The bulldozer kept moving, and she slipped and
fell off the plow. But the bulldozer kept
moving, the shovel above her. I guess it was
about 10 or 15 meters that it dragged her and
for some reason didn't stop. We shouted like
crazy to the driver through loudspeakers that
he should stop, but he just kept going and
didn't lift the shovel. Then it stopped and
backed up. We ran to Rachel. She was still
Activists said the tank arrived on the scene and
was only 20 meters away, but the soldiers did
not offer any assistance. A little while later,
the heavy equipment pulled away, and a Red
Crescent ambulance took the badly injured woman
to Abu Yusef Najar Hospital in Rafah, where she
was declared dead on arrival.
Army sources said the demolitions were meant to
prevent sabotage along the Philadelphi road
parallel to the Egyptian border. The sources
said the bulldozer driver deviated from the
track and apparently was moving a block of
concrete that hit the woman.
Posted 27 June 2003 - 10:18 AM
Don't get in the way of any big D9 bulldozers
Don't climb onto the blade of the said D9 dozer
Don't get upset when I get squished by same D9 dozer
Maybe this should be shown on David Letterman's "Stupid Human Tricks"
"New miracle weight loss plan- The Bradley Diet"
A few weeks ago, some Iraqi with an AK47 climbed onto a stationary M2 Bradley in Baghdad. The crew knocked him off the Bradley with their turret then proceeded to run in over.
When asked why they ran him over, the crew responded, "We wanted to save ammo."
Posted 28 June 2003 - 01:15 AM
In the land Rachel came from Bulldozers did not run over young women. Women and young children were not regularly killed. Peoples lives mattered.
If a big D9 bulldozer were not being used as an instrument of terrorism it would not make sense to get in front of it.
But the big D9 bulldozer was being used as an instrument of oppression. If one feels strongly enough against that use it may make sense to get in front of the bulldozer, in the belief that the driver will be morally obliged to stop and not kill you. Or you may not be sure that that the driver will stop, but that your death and martyrdom will result in some improvement to the situation you object to.
Perhaps Rachael thought that an Israeli Zionist D9 bulldozer would not run over an American girl. Perhaps she was so struck by the atrocities carried out by the Israeli Zionist IDF that she no longer cared whether she died. Perhaps she took a terrible risk.
Rachael Corries death gives a message to the world that we should not ignore. Israel has created Israhell in Palestine. We have to know what goes on in Palestine.
If you are Israeli or Jewish GunTrog; then if you do not care about the death of another human being, why should we in the UK or anyone in the USA support nasty Zionism, which is a heresy against God.
Posted 28 June 2003 - 01:21 AM
<"Army decides to close file on death of U.S. peace activist
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Staff "
"An investigation conducted by the IDF Southern Command determined that the driver of the bulldozer had not seen Corrie and had not intentionally run over her. A probe conducted
by the Military Police revealed similar findings. ">
There is no way anyone can be definitive about whether the bulldozer driver saw the girl or not. We are only able to make the best assumption we can, about what the was in the mind of the bulldozer driver. But it seems incredulous from the accounts of her fellow solidarity workers that he did not see her. I can see no reason not to believe their account of what happened.
We should then ask whether the people judging this matter are impartial and just. For example, if a street gang attack an innocent person on the street, you not normally get their freinds to act as judge and jury.
What makes a person impartial and just. Then you have to ask about his moral and religious beliefs. so we have to then address ourselves as to what the rabbis teach young Israelis.
From what I have seen 'accidental' death of solidarity workers seems to be very common. In fact far too common. Further it appears that rabbis teach young Israelis that being a jew makes one special. The inference is that other races are inferior and not chosen by God. And that the land of Israel has been given to the jews and Israel is the Torah. In this respect see references to the origin of many or a majority of jews as being descended from Kazars, and not from Jacob, Abraham etc. One might infer that the army do not care about the death/manslaughter/murder of Rachael Corrie. They may actually convince themselves that it was not murder. Certainly they are not impartial or just, not in my definition of justice.
Poor Rachael came from a place where the life of one protestor did matter, and bulldozers did stop. This is true even when whether we empathise with the protestor or not; whether we like or approve of the protestor or not; whether the protestor is an absolute nuisance or not. In the West much of our media do not tell us about what happens in Palestine. But they certainly tell us about Suicide bombers and 'terrorists' Do we forget that Begin was a terrorist who garrotted British troops.
According to Guntrog (what an appropiate name) taking such a risk was remarkably silly. Rachale Corrie could have walked away from the situation. But Palestinians cannot walk away. A martyr's death is either insane or brave according to the value system by which you judge such an act. Here in the UK I hear repeatedly 'How can muslims who say they believe in God justify suicide bombing and terrorism' Yet such a statement is made without knowing/considering the extreme and terrible duress the people of Palestine are under. It is made from the point of view of a person who is not under emotional distress, whose rationalistic argument does not include our (mans) emotional nature. Without having experienced such anger he is unable to understand, and can never do so.
From the number of deaths of Palestinians, and the fact that the IDF is not particularly worried about the deaths of 'innocent' Palestinians, women and children, and the inconvenient deaths of Palestinian Solidarity Workers, my view is that it is impossible to prove murder in each of such circumstances: Yet indifference to life in such circumstances amounts to collective mass murder.
One might be inclined to believe that Zionists believe such distress will further suppress the 'Arabs' as they call them.
To have settlements dotted throughout Palestine must be considered deliberately provocative. This is based on the religious belief that all of the land of Israel belong to the Jews. I hear many Christians in this contry echo this belief. Again, see references in this forum about Kazars, and the racial origin of many Jews.
Again and again we come back to the fact that our religious beliefs and predjudices matter. Perhaps we should remember that Jesus told us "You shall know them by their deeds" and in thinking about people of different religions, when asked "Who is your neighbour, he quoted the parable of the good Samaritan" It is not what belief system we say we subscribe to, but that force of knowing what is right and wrong and the right thing to do. These are emotional forces that we cannot measure. But we can certainly see their effect.
The fact is that we will never really know what was in the mind of the bulldozer driver who ran over Rachael. Was he one of a few extremist zionists willing to carry out murder, or was he really so stupid and ignorant he did not see her. If deliberate was he instructed to do this, or was it done on his own accord. Certainly we can be fairly sure that he knew he would not be judged harshly by the Israeli IDF. From the religious basis of Zionism one cannot regard the Israeli IDF as Impartial. Perhaps we might recall Stalins remark that one death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic. Therefore mone might say that the IDF is not bothered about the deaths of Palestinians or Europeans.
To my mind this is permitted murder.
To my my mind a religion which permits murder is wrong. That is not the will of God.
We in the west permit it. Many 'Christians' believe the whole of the land of Israel belongs to the Jews.
A lot of this is not just the facts that are reported in our media, but the coloration that is present, but which affects us subconsciously. The subconscious way we perceive Israel and Palestine goes to a tribal belief in who we see as tribal freinds and tribal foes. What is taught us about Judaic and Islamic belief systems teaches us who are our tribal freinds and foes. This happens from our childhood. As adults we are not aware of the subsconscious way in which this affects us. So many of the views I held about Israel and Paestine, Judaism Christianity and Islam I have found to be false. It is not so easy to discard long held beliefs. But the accumulation of evidence is overwhelming.
Why should Israel dictate so much US and UK policy? Why should we let Zionist beliefs lead us to disaster? Israel cannot survive with its current Palestinian policy without massive support from the USA and UK. That palestinian policy is driven by the false beliefs of Zionism. And if the Kazar origin of many jews is correct that zionist belief system which states that the whole of the land of Israel belongs to the Jews is based on a falsehood.
Perhaps it is appropiate to end by saying that in response to the events of Sept 11th, the Iraq war was an act of global terrorism. As a result the world is not safer. Certainly the events of Sept 11th put the USA in a state where the USA has been driven almost entirely by emotion rather than reason. This has allowed an allience of neocons, fundamentalist christians,and zionists to get a much deeper grip on the USA, and to a lesser extent the UK. We see increasing signs of violence due to the crassly inept and insensitive handling of post war Iraq.
We come again that we need media who tell us the truth, not just a part of the truth. Or are we happy to be like animals prodded, goaded, and manipulated by our emotions.
Posted 28 June 2003 - 01:55 AM
Re - <"Army decides to close file on death of U.S. peace activist
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Staff "
This just shows that it is impossible to prove murder, because you are trying to determine what was in the mind of the person who enacted the killing of the victim.
But it is very difficult to believe the driver was not aware of the girls presence. I have no reason not to believe the account of the other solidarity workers.
Additionally deaths of solidarity workers appear to be very frequent occurances, and it becomes no surprise to hear of another.
Re the Driver; think on the concepts of; deliberate / deliberately careless / did not care.
Re the IDF commanders; think on the concepts of instructed, allowed to happen, permitted, ignored, indifferent, rather like it to happen, convenient, but never outrightly stated.
Conclusion; - An indifferent attitude to the lives of other people amounts to constructive murder.
Fact is; Ariel Sharon wants to hound the Palestinians till they have no spirit to fight. That is what zionist rabbis teach Israelis.
Zionists believe Israel is the Torah, and the whole of Israel belongs to the Jews.
They put this belief above that of the life of foreigners who interfere with what they regard as a religious right. i.e to hound the Palestinians out of Israel.
Israel cannot exist with its Zionist policies without massive support from the USA. Frankly it has to manipulate the USA and UK to support it.
Why should we support such a religion that has no regard for the lives of other people?
Posted 28 June 2003 - 02:34 AM
Posted 28 June 2003 - 10:54 AM
When will we (mankind) do something about this. When will we stop being sheep. Yet we should not act in anger, but with a cold grim determination that we will not tolerate deception.
To know what goes on in Palestine; to understand is crucial. That is the cause of so much frustration by Islamic people. This does not mean we approve of terrorism and suicide bombing. But one has to know the anger these people feel. You can only know this from experience. That experience is not nice. But to know means we do not approve of the terrorism that is carried out by Israel.
Without correct information we can neither think nor act correctly.
Posted 19 November 2003 - 05:05 AM
Posted 19 November 2003 - 12:44 PM
Let's see how many of you bleeding heart liberals will decree and becry the death of this fine FRENCH FREEDOMO SUPPORTING WOMAN.
Posted 19 November 2003 - 12:46 PM
Here's a tiny primer on the situation in Sudan: http://www.freedomho...eligion/sudan/.
Posted 20 November 2003 - 12:29 AM
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon downplayed suggestions
of tension with his key U.S. ally on Wednesday
after President George W. Bush toughened criticism
Israeli's settlement policy and over the West Bank
security fence being erected.
The American president also said Israel must
freeze settlement construction, dismantle
unauthorized outposts, end the "daily
humiliation" of the Palestinian people and halt
the building of the West Bank security fence -
which prejudices final negotiations.
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said in response
that the American position is well-known but
Israel has nevertheless decided to go ahead
with construction of the West Bank fence.
"We have reached a clear and unequivocal
decision to build this fence, to prevent the
extremists from attacking us," Shalom told Army
Radio from Vienna. "We are doing everything we
can to put up this fence that will prevent
Israel has nevertheless decided to go ahead
with construction of the West Bank fence. "
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