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RUSSIANS BUILD FAR-BETTER -WARBIRDS than the USA! Why it is so hard to understand, ?

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#261 The Beat

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 05:45 AM


Did you take the drugs like I asked you, or did you just swallow everything all at once?
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#262 Skippy


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Posted 10 July 2003 - 07:04 AM

no good asking me to take them, you are going to have to send em on over,
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#263 The Beat

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 07:10 AM

I take it that means yes.
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#264 raffphi


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Posted 10 July 2003 - 07:53 AM

The Beat you are good at sarcasm !
Poor skippy

But the beat must go on !

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#265 The Beat

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 04:12 PM

de rien
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#266 Guest__*

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 02:24 AM

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#267 ahmad


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 02:11 AM

Hard to understand because the Iraqi "Air Force" couldn't get one off the ground. Hard to understand because "MIGs" are now museum pieces, decorating air shows. Hard to understand because there isn't a country in the world who BUYS Russian aircraft. Hard to understand because whatever they build will never be flown in combat - this is a fact - not fiction - a guarantee.
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#268 Buttersideup


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:29 AM

This is silly...MIG's are good aircraft.
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#269 The Beat

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 08:18 AM


Are you serious? I am no aviation expert, but I thought MIGs were part of the J. Paul Getty Museum since twenty years ago, or something along those lines. Is that not right?
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#270 Pole


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 02:52 PM

Live Cartridge of High Armor-Piercing Action

A machine-tool plant in the Russian city Barnaul has started to produce live cartridges of high piercing
action without any parallel in the world. It is designed for Kalashnikov automatic gun to hit armor of battle infantry
vehicles. The high armor-piercing effect was reached thanks to the use of special materials and peculiar cartridge

RUSSIANS BUILD not only FAR-BETTER -WARBIRDS than the USA but also bullets!

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#271 Pole


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:03 PM

Worldwide Chinese Russian strategic-military coordination
aimed, primarily, at the "containment" of America and its close
allies is utterly dangerous to fascist USA!

Taken from Reuters press:

The Chinese-Russian alliance, formalized by the signing of the
Chinese-Russian Treaty in Moscow in July 2001, is alive - though
ignored by official Washington - and rapidly developing. Following
are the major areas of the alliance activity.

1. Worldwide Chinese-Russian strategic-military coordination
aimed, primarily, at the "containment" of America and its close
allies is utterly dangerous. This includes:

De facto support of Saddam's regime in Iraq, preventing or at
least delaying its toppling as a result of a U.S.-U.K. military

Political and military support of the present Iranian regime,
large-scale weapons supply - including WMD elements - for
Iranian armed forces modernization.

"Embracing" the entire Middle East, by using Iran and Iraq as
"tools," special relations with Syria and Libya, as well as de
facto support of Palestinians in the conflict with Israel.

Preventing the increase of economic influence (particularly
regarding the control of hydrocarbon resources) and political
and military presence of the U.S. and NATO in Central Asia
and the Trans-Caucasus region. The Shanghai Cooperative
Organization appears to be an effective tool of the
Chinese-Russian alliance here.

Providing maximal economic, political and
military-technological support to Kim Jong-il's regime in North
Korea; recent Chinese-Russian statements requiring
termination of North Korean nuclear-missile developments
should not be taken seriously.

Maximally expanding the Chinese-Russian alliance's
influence on the Korean Peninsula and the entire East Asia
and Western Pacific, undermining U.S. influence in this zone.

Expanding the Chinese-Russian alliance to Ukraine and

Minimizing the consequences of NATO's eastward
expansion, amplifying the existing contradictions between
America and the European Union.

Expanding the alliance's presence and influence in Latin
America, primarily in Cuba, Venezuela and Brazil. Russian
weapons delivery to these countries is on the rise.

Establishing "causes of concern" for America all over the
world, thus causing "over-stretching" of U.S. forces around
the globe. This could result in the failure of U.S. policy.

2. Rapid PLA modernization with the help of the united defense
industry (no exaggeration) of China, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus
is also very dangerous; remarkably, the same industry supplies
weapons to the "axis of evil" and "countries of concern."

In total, more than 100 large projects would be accomplished, with
maximal assistance of the listed U.S.S.R. republics, by 2005, thus
making PLA the force capable of prevailing in the conflict around
Taiwan. These projects include (without detailing):

PLA Ground Force

Assisting Chinese defense industry in R&D and manufacturing the
advanced main combat tanks, light tanks, infantry fighting vehicles,
armored transporting vehicles, towed artillery, self-propelled
artillery, multiple rocket systems, missile-artillery air-defense
systems and shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles, transport and
combat helicopters.

PLA Navy

Open part: Delivery of improved Sovremennyy destroyers,
assisting in Luyang ("super-Sovremennyy") construction in China;
delivery of super-Kilo submarines, assisting in improved Song
(super-Kilo) submarine construction in China; production of
supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles; R&D of "stealth gunboat" (the
craft equipped with the most-advanced supersonic anti-ship
missiles); completing the "093 project" (strategic submarine) and
"094 project" (nuclear attack submarine); delivery of Kirov-class
aircraft cruiser; putting in service Varyag aircraft carrier.

Hidden part: Would China get, from Russian navy inventory,
Typhoon-class strategic submarines and Akula-class nuclear
attack submarines?

PLA Air Force

Open part: SU-27 and SU-30 fighters manufacturing in China;
SU-30, SU-32, SU-35 fighters purchase from Russia; J-10 fighter,
FC-1 fighter, FBC-1 (JH-7) fighter-bomber manufacturing in China;
R&D and manufacturing turbofan engines, search and air-control
radar, other key blocs for these fighters; manufacturing in China
and purchasing from Russia air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground,
anti-ship missiles for listed fighters; purchasing from Russian and
Ukraine and manufacturing in China mid-size transport aircraft
(50-70 seats) and cargo aircraft; purchasing in Russia and Ukraine
large-size cargo and transport aircraft of AN-series, IL-series and
TU-series; purchasing in Russia intelligence aircraft, electronic
warfare aircraft, AWACS systems; manufacturing in China
long-range high-altitude air and missile defense (AMD) systems
HQ-15 (improved S-300 PMU1) and HQ-18 (improved S-300V),
mid-range mid-altitude AMD systems HQ-17 (improved Tor-M1)
and HQ-16 (new generation Tor-M1); establishing multi-level
air-defense network to cover the entire coastal zone of China.

Hidden part: Would China get TU-22 long-range bombers and
S-400 "super-long-range" AMDs from the Russian army inventory?

R&D and manufacturing in China, with Russian assistance,
long-range (1,000 km - 3,000 km) land-attack cruise missiles for
ground-launch, air-launch and submerge-launch as well as new
generation ICBMs, SLBMs and IRBMs.
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#272 Pole


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:03 PM

Emerging PLA Space Forces

R&D and manufacturing in China, with Russian assistance,
spacecraft, missile booster and other key technology for manned
space flight; R&D of new generation heavy missile boosters with
the payload of 25-30 tons for low orbit and 10-12 tons for
geo-synchronous orbit; manufacturing spy satellites, positioning
satellites and telecom satellites; manufacturing mini-, micro- and
"nano"-satellites for pure military use and dual use; R&D of
anti-satellite systems; utilizing Russian space facilities; R&D of
space component for Chinese "coastal air-defense network."

Electromagnetic warfare and Cyber-warfare: about 10 major
projects (without detailing).

Projects to be completed in 2006-2010 (most important only) are
of special interest:

R&D of 5th generation fighter, on the base of SU-37 fighter;
R&D of 4th generation stealthy fighter (matching or
surpassing U.S. F-22);
R&D of new generation strategic submarine, surpassing
Russian Typhoon;
R&D of new generation nuclear attack submarine, matching
Russian Akula II
R&D of strategic land-attack cruise missiles with 4000 km
R&D of new generation AMD system S-500, possibly,
eligible for ABM purposes.

3. The author and his friends addressed the growing Chinese
economic, technological and military potential.

In 2001, Chinese GDP per capita, calculated in PPP (Purchase
Power Parity method), approached $7,000. In the most-developed
coastal regions - Nanjing-Shanghai-Ningbo zone of Yangtze river
delta, HK-Macao-Guangzhou triangle, Fuzou-Xiamen zone in
Fujian province, Jinan-Qingdao zone in Shandong province,
Beijing-Tianjin-Tangshan megalopolis, Dalian-Shenyang zone in
Liaoning province - this indicator reached $15,000 or more. The
same regions have mighty S&T potential; they are capable of
producing almost any weapon in almost any quantity.

As a result, accomplishing of the listed weapons projects - in great
degree, just in these regions - causes no special economic or
technological problems. In 2002-2005 the GDP of all of China and
the listed regions will continue to increase at the annual rate of 8
percent to 8.5 percent and 9 percent to 10 percent
correspondingly, thus facilitating the realization of major weapons

In 2002, Chinese official defense expenditures will reach,
according to official budget figures and official exchange rate, $20
billion. Real Chinese defense expenditures, if hidden items and
PPP recalculation are taken into account, will be many times

Chinese defense expenditures are, by far, the second in the world;
they would increase at around 18 percent annually in real terms in
2003-2005. As a result, by 2005, the `PLA would transform into the
second world army (if ICBM capabilities of the Russian army are
not counted).

4. The author and his friends discussed some geopolitical aspects
of the Chinese-Russian alliance.

a) China would use its newly achieved military potential to take
over Taiwan - in military conflict or by driving the island to
surrender (in accordance with Sun Tze's strategy). Russian forces
almost certainly would provide assistance to the PLA.

As the second step, China - almost automatically - would expand
its control over the entire South China Sea with its huge
hydrocarbon resources. Establishing geopolitical control over
Southeast Asia - up to Australia new Zealand Indonesia and Singapore - will take place
as the third step.

Read Part II of article.

Chinese-Russian 'Gray Weapons Trade' on the Rise

In this world, bad forecasts and suppositions become true
miraculously rapidly. Just a week ago, the author mentioned, in the
"hidden part" section of the list of Chinese-Russian weapon
cooperation projects, an opportunity for Russian Akula-class and
Typhoon-class nuclear submarine delivery to the PLA Navy. And
here we are, in no time.

Let's look at the compressed translation of the article published by
the New York-based Chinese-language Shijie Ribao (World
Magazine) paper on Dec. 9:

According to multiple Western and Taiwanese sources, during the
recent summit of Jiang Zemin and Putin in Beijing on Dec. 1-3, the
two sides discussed the delivery of nuclear submarines
and most-advanced surface vessels from Russia to China. They
also discussed the general transfer of weapons technology from
Russia to China.

It looks as if the Mainland, step by step, is seriously prevailing in military
competition with Taiwan, due primarily to Russian
military-technological assistance.

Officially, the two sides didn't touch military and
military-technological cooperation problems during the talks. They
approved a Chinese-Russian declaration containing 13 points. The
declaration hails bilateral S&T cooperation but doesn't mention the
military one.

Still, according to Western and East Asian sources, the two sides
discussed this subject and decided to continue
military-technological cooperation secretly. Particularly, all the
officials accompanying Putin to Beijing refused to say a single
word regarding the military items to journalists.

In any case, Chinese cooperation with Russia aimed at PLA
modernization is on the steep rise, and Taiwan and South East
Asia become the major victim of this modernization. (end of compressed translation)

Two more messages published by the same source make the
picture a little more understandable.

Shijie Ribao, Nov. 4 - According to Taiwanese sources, China is
Purchasing undisclosed number of Akula-class nuclear
submarins in Russia. Simultaneously, a military shipbuilding plant
in Huludao, Liaoning Province, is constructing an 093-class nuclear
attack submarines and 094-class strategic nuclear
submarine. They should replace the acting obsolete 091
s(Han)-class nuclear attack submarins and 092 (Xia)-class
strategic submarins.

Shijie Ribao, Nov. 13 - According to Taiwanese military
intelligence, presently China is constructing several nuclear attack
submarines of the new kind. They will be in service before 2005.

The picture becomes even more complete if messages from the
Russian media - given by the author in the article published
several weeks ago - are added:

Putin urgently needs money for the Russian Duma election
campaign at the end of 2003 and the Russian presidential election
campaign in 2004. He intends to get a significant part of the
necessary huge sum of money through smart schemes involving
weapons export to China. (end of messages)

It looks as if Putin is ready to provide the Chinese, within the
framework of the "gray weapons trade" with whatever they want. He
doesn't think about the possible negative consequences for the
world military balance.

In such circumstances, the PLA Navy could indeed get from
Russia, by 2005 or earlier, 10 Akula-class nuclear attack
submarines - with construction finished, say, at
Komsomolsk-na-Amure Shipbuilding Plant or directly from the
Russian navy inventory; construction of the Akula nuclear
submarins at Huludao Shipbuilding Plant also is not excluded.

The same is true for the delivery of 12 Typhoon-class
strategic submarines from the Russia to the PLA
Navy. As a result, PLA's strategic potential may increase by
tens of l hundred nuclear warheads at once.

This is a state of emergency for America.

Will the administration
understand the degree of the coming threat or will it continue to
listen the sweet lullaby - produced, primarily, by the State
Department - about "cooperation of America and Russia in the
struggle with terror"?

TU-22M long-distance bombers - or even TU-95 strategic
bombers - and the 3,000-km-range strategic land attack cruise
missiles could also be part of this Chinese-Russian "gray weapons

Open your eyes, America, before it is too late.

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#273 Buttersideup


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 04:01 PM

I hope this is all (Pole posts) nonsense. If not, at the risk of sounding rascist, it's curtains for white people.
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#274 Frunze



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Posted 13 July 2003 - 04:45 PM

No Butterup
Its curtians for USA, (if not already, very soon USA will have a majority of non-whites anyway) most white people have good relations with the Chinese and hmmmm, I really like Chinese women.

There is no question that China will have the largest economy in the world in about 10 years and at about that time it will have the most powerful army. USA fascists wont let it happen peacefully, they will launch some kind of ill-fated aggression and will be destroyed. It will probably turn out to be good for USA workers as the Chinese will force the USA army to withdraw back to USA.

Still, this is wishful thinking I guess, the contradictions of capitalist economy have predetermined that the only way the USA army will be confined to USA is through their wholesale slaughter and of course, all armies are made up of the working class.
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#275 Buttersideup


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:42 PM


First of all I am surprised to here you like Chinese women. I thought it was obvious you were a pickle smoker. Yes, some of them are very lovely. Second, the ONLY reason China's economy is booming is BECAUSE of US purchases. Third your so lost in labels you have given up all independent observation and thought. Fourth you said " (if not already, very soon USA will have a majority of non-whites anyway)". Census figures are publicly available. I lament the fact that at the current rate of illegal immigration this may be true in a couple of decades. It started with Nordic dna in the 11th century. Ironic you would be so pleased to erradicate it.

Asians are different from caucasions,hispanics,africans, and arabs....they put there own first.
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#276 Buttersideup


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:45 PM

Frunze has obviously worked hard at being an idiot. So far he has done a great job. :P
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#277 ahmad


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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:55 PM

1. Dependent on it's biggest customer - the United States.
2. Dependent on cheap, expendable, uneducated labor.
3. Dependent on capitalism to fuel its economy.

China is dead in the water without a market for export. Unlike the U.S. which can live without these products, the Chinese depend on their exports for survival. The Chinese, like the Russians, are totally dependent on the largesse of the rest of world for its sustained survival. There isn't a nuke in the world that can solve that problem.

Sorry Frunze, wrong again. Better luck next time.
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#278 Gaddock



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Posted 13 July 2003 - 05:58 PM

Ohhhhhh yeah Frunzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Im so sure :rolleyes:
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#279 The Beat

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:13 PM

Hey, Fuzzy,

"Its curtians for USA,"

What?? Are you an upholstery salesman??
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#280 The Beat

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:14 PM

Use spell-check next time

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