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#1 MirrorMan


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Posted 24 April 2003 - 04:51 PM

see here
October 4, 1992
Amsterdam, Netherlands
El Al, Flight 1862
Boeing B-747-258F

Shortly after taking off from Schiphol Airport, while climbing through 6,500 feet, the No. 3 engine separated with its pylon from the aircraft and damaged the leading edge of the right wing. The No. 3 engine separated in such a way that the No. 4 engine and pylon also separated from the wing. During an attempted return to the airport, the aircraft crashed into a 11 story building in the Bijlmermeer residential district. The design and certification of the B-747 pylon was found to be inadequate to provide the required level of safety. The system to ensure structural integrity by inspection failed. The separation of the No. 3 engine was initiated by fatigue (corrosion) in the inboard midspar fuse pin. This led to loss of the No. 4 engine and pylon and damage to several systems which ultimately led to loss of control of the aircraft.

El Al 1862: El Al one eight six two, Mayday! Mayday! We have an emergency.
CONTROLLER: El Al one eight six two, roger. Break, KLM 237, turn left heading 090.
CONTROLLER: One eight six two, do you wish to return to Schiphol?
El Al 1862: Affirmative, Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!
CONTROLLER: Turn right heading two six zero, field eh... behind you, eh.... in your - to the west, eh ....distance one eight miles.
El Al 1862: Roger, we have fire on engine number three, we have fire on engine number three.
CONTROLLER: Roger, heading two seven zero for downwind.
El Al 1862: Two seven zero downwind.
El Al 1862: El Al one eight six two, lost number three and number four engine, number three and number four engine
CONTROLLER: Roger, one eight six two.
CONTROLLER: El Al one eight six two, continue descent one thousand five hundred feet...one thousand five hundred.
El Al 1862: Fifteen hundred, and we have a controlling problem.
CONTROLLER: You have a controlling problem as well, roger.
El Al 1862: [In the background, in Hebrew] - Raise all the flaps, all the flaps raise.
El Al 1862: [In the background] - Ohhhhh!
El Al 1862: [In the background, in Hebrew] - Lower the gear.
El Al 1862: Going down...eh...one eight six two, going down, going down, copied going down.
FEMALE CONTROLLER: [In Dutch] - It has happened.
CONTROLLER: One eight six two, your heading,
FEMALE CONTROLLER [In Dutch] Forget it Henk, (controller's name), he crashed.
CONTROLLER: [In Dutch] - Do you see it?
FEMALE CONTROLLER: [In Dutch] - I see one big fire above the city.
CONTROLLER: [In Dutch] - Jesus, just at Whisky Papa Yosite (an intersection over a heavily populated area)
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#2 Guest_piehunt_*

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Posted 24 April 2003 - 05:47 PM

Why post such a thread? And why the Schiphol one out of all the one's in the link?
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#3 Guest_piehunt_*

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Posted 24 April 2003 - 10:12 PM

bumpski, for mirrorman because i want to know why.....
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#4 MirrorMan


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Posted 25 April 2003 - 12:47 PM

I encountered that website by ''accident''. Thought it might be interesting.
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#5 MirrorMan


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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:55 PM

Januany 31 2000
Off Point Mugu, California
Alaska Airlines, Flight 261
McDonnell Douglas MD-83

The aircraft crashed into the Pacific Ocean south of Point Mugu in 650 ft. feet of water while en route from Puerto Vallarta to San Francisco. Radio transmissions from the plane indicated the pilots were struggling with a jammed stabilizer for the last 11 minutes of the flight before nose-diving into the ocean. While preparing to make an emergency landing in Los Angeles International Airport control was lost and the MD-83 was seen in a nose down attitude, spinning and tumbling in a continuous roll, inverted before it impacted the ocean. All 88 aboard were killed. The probable cause was loss of airplane pitch control resulting from in-flight failure of the horizontal stabilizer trim system jackscrew assembly's acme nut threads due to insufficient lubrication of the jackscrew assembly.

RT = Radio Transmission
CAPT = Captain
F/O = First Officer
FA = Flight Attendant
ME = Mechanic on the ground at LAX
LA14 = LA ARTCC Sector 14
LA25 = LA ARTCC Sector 25
LA30 = LA ARTCC Sector 30

16:08:03 RT CAPT: Yea we tried everything together.
16:08:08 RT CAPT: We've run just about everything if you've got any hidden circuit breakers we'd love to know about 'em.
16:08:35 RT CAPT: It appears to be jammed, the whole thing, it spikes out when we use the primary, we get AC load that tells me the motor's tryin' to run but the brake won't move it, when we use the alternate, nothing happens.
16:08:50 ME You say you get a spike on the meter up there in the cockpit when you uh try to move it with the primary right?
16:08:59 CAPT: I'm gonna click it off you got it?
16:09:00 F/O: Ok.
16:09:01 RT CAPT: When we do the primary trim, but there's no appreciable uh change in the uh electrical uh when we do the alternate.
16:09:13 CAPT: Let's do that.
16:09:14 [Sound of click]
16:09:14 CAPT: This'll click it off.
16:09:16 [Sound of autopilot disengaging] [Sound similar to horizontal stabilizer in motion tone]
16:09:16 CAPT: You got it?
16:09:26 CAPT: It got worse.
16:09:31 CAPT: You're stalled.
16:09:32 [Sound of air frame vibration]
16:09:33 CAPT: No no you gotta release it ya gotta release it.
16:09:34 [Sound of click]
16:09:52 CAPT: Help me back help me back.
16:09:54 F/O: Ok.
16:09:55 RT CAPT: Center Alaska two sixty one we are uh in a dive here.
16:10:01 RT CAPT: ... and I've lost control, vertical pitch.
16:10:01 [Sound of overspeed warning] (continues for 33 seconds)
16:10:05 LA30: Alaska two sixty one uh say again sir.
16:10:06 RT CAPT: Yea we're out of twenty six thousand feet, we are in a vertical dive...not a dive yet... but uh we've lost vertical control of our airplane.
16:10:10 LA30: Alaska two sixty one roger.
16:10:20 CAPT: Just help me.
16:10:28 RT CAPT: We're at twenty three seven, request uh...
16:10:33 RT CAPT: Yea we got it back under control here.
16:09:34 RT F/O: No we don't!
16:10:36 LA30: Alaska two sixty one uh say the altitude you'd like to uh remain at
16:10:45 F/O: Let's take the speed brakes off.
16:11:03 LA30: Alaska two sixty one say your condition
16:11:07 RT CAPT: Two sixty on, we're at twenty four thousand feet, kinda stabilized.
16:10:55 CAPT: Ok it really wants to pitch down.
16:10:58 RT CAPT: We're slowin' here and uh, we're gonna uh do a little troubleshooting, can you gimme a block between un, twenty and twenty five?
16:11:21 LA30:: Alaska two sixty one maintain block altitude flight level two zero zero through flight level two five zero
16:11:26 RT CAPT: Alaska two sixty one we'll take that block we'll be monitoring the frequency.
16:11:43 F/O: Whatever we did is no good, don't do that again.
16:11:44 CAPT: No it went down it went to full nose down.
16:11:48 F/O: Un it's a lot worse than it was?
16:11:50 CAPT: Yea yea we're in much worse shape now.
16:11:59 CAPT: I think it's at the stop, full stop...and I'm thinking...can it go any worse...but it probably can...but when we slowed down, let's slow it let's get down to two hundred knots and see what happens.
16:12:33 RT CAPT: We did both the pickle switch and the suitcase handles and it ran away full nose trim down.
16:12:42 RT CAPT: And now we're in a pinch so we're holding uh we're worse than we were.
16:13:04 RT CAPT: (Transmission indicated he was reluctant to to try troubleshooting the trim system again because the trim might go in the other direction)
16:13:22 RT CAPT: I went tab down... right, and it should have come back instead it went the other way.
16:13:32 CAPT: You wanna try it or not?
16:13:35 F/O: Uhh no. boy I don't know.
16:14:03 LA30: Alaska two sixty one uh let me know if you need anything.
16:14:07 RT CAPT: We're still working at it.
16:14:09 LA30: Roger.
16:14:54 LA30: Alaska two sixty one contact LA center one two six point five two they're aware of your uh situation.
16:14:59 RT CAPT: Alaska two sixty one say again the frequency one two zero five two.
16:15:03 LA30: Uh Alaska two sixty one twenty six fifty two.
16:15:06 RT CAPT: Thank you.
16:15:19 RT CAPT: LA Alaska two sixty one uh we're with you at twenty two five we have a jammed stabilizer and ah we're maintaining altitude with difficulty uh but uh we can maintain altitude we think and our intention is to land at Los Angeles.
16:15:35 LA25: Alaska two sixty one Alaska Center roger uh you're cleared to Los Angeles Airport via present position uh direct Santa Monica direct Los Angeles and uh you want lower now or what do you wanna do sir.
16:15:56 RT CAPT: Center Alaska two sixty one I need to uh get down about ten change my configuration make sure I can control the jet and I'd like to do that out there over the bay if I may.
16:16:06 LA25: Ok Alaska two sixty one roger that stand by there.
16:16:10 LA14: That's fine go ahead green light
16:16:11 LA25: Hey Alaska two sixty one wants to go into LA.
16:16:14 LA14: No problem
16:16:15 LA25: He wants to get down to around ten thousand feet but he wants to do it out there over the bay.
16:16:17 LA14: Sure.
16:16:19 LA14: Ok.
16:16:19 LA25: I'm gonna send him out on like a two eighty heading right now and then uh.
16:16:22 LA14: Ok put him on a...
16:16:23 LA25: He's at two two five right now.
16:16:25 LA14: Uhhh Ok that's fine.
16:16:25 LA25: Altitude altitude.
16:16:27 LA14: Put him on a two eighty heading take him down to one seven thousand radar contact.
16:16:29 LA25: He're we go.
16:16:30 LA14: (unintelligible)
16:16:31 LA25: Alaska two sixty one uh fly heading of two eight zero and descend and maintain one seven thousand.
16:16:39 RT CAPT: Two eight zero and one seven seventeen thousand Alaska two sixty one and we generally need a block altitude.
16:16:44 LA25: Ok uh just um I'll tell you what uh do that for now sir and contact LA Center on three five point five they'll have further uh instructions for you sir.
16:16:56 RT CAPT: K thirty five five say the altimeter setting.
16:16:59 LA25: The LA altimeter is three zero one eight.
16:17:01 RT F/O: Thank you.
16:17:02 LA25: Thank you.
[This was the last radio transmission from the aircraft]
16:17:04 CAPT: I need everything picked up... everything strapped down. I'm gonna unload the airplane and see if we can ....we can regain control of it that way.
16:17:09 FA: Ok we had like a big bank back there.
16:17:11 CAPT: Yea I heard it.
16:17:15 CAPT: I think the stab trim thing is broken.
16:17:21 CAPT: Make sure the passengers are strapped in now.
16:17:24 CAPT: Cause I'm gonna I'm going to release the back pressure and see if I can get it... back.
16:17:54 CAPT: Gimme slats extend.
16:17:56 {Sound similar to slat/flap handle movement]
16:17:58 CAPT: I'm test flying now.
16:18:05 CAPT: Flaps 11 degrees.
16:18:07 [Sound similar to slat/flap handle movement]
16:18:17 CAPT:: It's pretty stable right now...see but we got to get down to a hundred an eighty.
16:18:26 CAPT: Ok... bring the flaps and slats back up for me.
16:18:37 [Sound similar to slat/flap handle movement]
16:18:47 CAPT: What I wanna do...is get the nose up...and then let the nose fall through and see if we can stab it when it's unloaded.
16:18:56 F/O: You mean use this again?
16:19:01 CAPT: It's on the stop now, its on the stop.
16:19:04 F/O: Well not according to that it's not.
16:19:07 F/O: The trim might be, and then it might be uh, if something's popped back there...it might be mechanical damage too.
16:19:14 CAPT: I think if it's controllable, we oughta just try to land it.
16:19:16 CAPT: You think so? Ok lets head for LA.
16:19:21 [Sound of three thumps]
16:19:24 F/O: You feel that?
16:19:26 CAPT: Yea.
16:19:29 CAPT: Ok gimme sl....
16:19:33 [Sound of two clicks similar to the sound of slat/flap movement]
16:19:37 [Sound of extremely loud nose and the sound of background noise increasing, which continued until the end of the recording] [Sound of loose articles moving around in the cockpit]
16:19:43 F/O: Mayday
16:19:49 CAPT: Push and roll, push and roll.
16:19:54 CAPT: Ok, we are inverted...and now we gotta get it.
16:20:04 CAPT: Push push push...push the blue side up.
16:20:16 CAPT: Ok now lets kick rudder...left rudder left rudder.
16:20:18 F/O: I can't reach it.
16:20:20 CAPT: Ok right rudder...right rudder.
16:20:38 CAPT: Gotta get it over again...at least upside down we're flying.
16:20:49 [Sounds similar to engine compressor stalls and engine spool down]
16:20:54 CAPT: Speedbrakes.
16:20:55 F/O: Got it.
16:20:56 F/O: Ah here we go.
16:20:57.1 F/O: [End of recording]
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