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Did Bush Engineer 9/11??


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#41 masterful

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 07:35 PM

This is technical analysis? Not quite. Virtually all of those links lead to page after page of questions. I'm not even saying they are bad questions, but they are just questions. Questions don't constitute analysis. You need to realize the difference between fact and speculation. I'm not telling you what to believe, I'm just telling you to at least know WHY you believe something. The possibility that a situation exists, is not proof of that situation.

Don't hold strong opinions about things that you don't understand. It's a simple concept . . . learn, research, understand, form an opinion.

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#42 bluedyedshark

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 07:52 PM

thanks for the advice.You do not think there is good technical analysis there?!

Never in the entire history of high rise buildings has a skyscraper collapsed due to fire.
Draw your own conclusions
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#43 masterful

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 09:18 PM

I think there is very little technical analysis there, and a ridiculous amount of speculation and loaded questions. Repetition, loaded questions, unverifiable sources, etc . . . they are all marks of effective conspiracy theories.

I don't claim to know what happened, and I agree that there appear to be a lot of discrepancies in the explanations, I also realize however, that truth is generally stranger than fiction. I'm still researching to form my opinion about what happened . . . or waiting for more information to be made available.

"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."

btw, your logic is flawed. Anything has 'never happened before' . . . until it happens for the first time. America proper had never been attacked on such a massive scale, with such dramatic results . . . until then. That type of flawed logic proves NOTHING. Think of it in the inverse. If it had happened before, would you listen to an investigator who said, "A skyscraper in Detroit collapsed 10 years ago because of a fire, so it must have been a fire in this case."? No . . . because it makes no sense to come to an absolute conclusion based on such a thin statement.

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#44 The Beat

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:58 AM

perhaps you need to rethink your posts.

"America proper had never been attacked on such a massive scale, with such dramatic results . . . until then."

Does the name Pearl Harbor mean anything to you?? I would even suggest that Pearl Harbor was BIGGER than 9/11. The enemy was of an entirely different type, but to say that we have lived peaceful and tranquil lives to now (going to the extreme to make my point) is totally wrong.

The total death toll was perhaps slightly less, but certainly the impact on this nation was a thousand times greater, unless you can see everyone 18 to 25 immediately enlisting in the military, and GM, Ford, and Chrysler suddenly building ONLY military vehicles.

That analysis by the Germans was well prepared and rather thorough. How can you say that they only asked questions. I went through nearly 20 pages and I found technical analysis, along with a few German words they forgot to translate, and very few questions.

Perhaps you need to read it again, this time WITHOUT prejudice.
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#45 masterful

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 04:27 PM

Perhaps you need to find something more constructive to do, rather than follow me around and attempt to debunk my words based on semantics. It is also possible that if you want to play the semantics game, you should at least 'pull your head out', as the saying goes, and pay more attention to what is typed. I take people like you into account when I type most of my posts. There are plenty of arguments against that complete waste of time, and blatant attempt to increase your post count. Here are a few:

1) I said, 'America proper'. Which is a phrase commonly used in place of words such as 'mainland', or 'the contiguous states', etc. Do you honestly think I forgot Pearl Harbor? Seriously Beat . . .

2) I also said, 'a massive scale, with such dramatic results'. First of all, this leaves a lot open to interpretation, so your interpretation of the dramatic results, may differ from mine . . . and my differ from the majority, hence the idiocy of your argument. There is no absolute when it comes to opinion. Let's try to put it in a little perspective though. When it comes to outright affect on the world, Pearl Harbor was a drop in the bucket compared to 9/11 . . . in my opinion. Why? Pearl Harbor got the US involved in an already ongoing, and massive, war. 9/11 was immediately responsible for initiating a war. The war on terrorism, which to-date, has culminated in the invasion and military overthrow of 2 countries. It has spawned an entirely new American stance, as it applies to world politics . . . pre-emptive attack. This type of attack was completely unheard of previous to 9/11. It resulted in protests and support rallies of record-setting size around the world. It was hailed on every major news station as the 'most devastating attack in American history'. The attack ranged over multiple states in 'MAINLAND' America. It was an attack on civilians as opposed to military personnel. It was the most widely visible attack in the history of the US due to television and the internet, and like you pointed out . . . the body count was higher. I could go on all day with reasons, but you get the point. So which one was more dramatic? Poll Americans and see what they would say. Oh, I'm sorry . . . you left-wing zealots know better than the American public. You don't need to listen to majority opinion, because the majority of people are just teaming masses of backwoods hill-billy cracker-fuc.ks to brilliant intellectuals like you. Right? Remember before you answer that question in your head . . . if you say 'wrong', that makes you wrong too. Ready to own up to something like that?

3) "to say that we have lived peaceful and tranquil lives to now (going to the extreme to make my point) is totally wrong" You're right, it would be wrong. Fortunately, I didn't say anything even remotely resembling this statement. You aren't going to an extreme of something I said . . . because I didn't even say this in a less-than-extreme fashion. You can't put words in my mouth, and then use them to argue with me . . . it's akin to verbal masturbation.

4) There is at least 20-25 links on that page, and you have the gall to tell me about ONE link? I said, 'I think there is very little technical analysis there, and a ridiculous amount of speculation and loaded questions'. Perhaps I need to lay this out in obvious terms: YES BEAT, THERE IS SOME TECHNICAL ANALYSIS IN THESE PAGES, HOWEVER THE MAJORITY OF THEM CONSIST OF LOADED QUESTIONS AND BULLSHIT. Would that have went over better? Not likely, since you aren't attempting to uncover some truth, you're simply forming an argument against me. No problem, in fact, please . . . keep it up, it's worked out so well for you thusfar. I consider it flattering.

I expect this Beat imposter to make a hasty exit, and the Beat that I read previous to the last couple weeks to return. This person is trite, and stand-offish. He isn't the Beat the I believed to be coldly analytical and objective, even if a bit misguided in my opinion. I can respect a difference in opinion, especially when it's based on cold calculation. I have a hard time respecting a blatant urge to disagree . . . simply because of who is speaking.

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#46 mikimouse

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 04:37 PM

of course the nigger did.
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#47 masterful

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 04:41 PM

I love it . . . Miki . . . you take the cake. Ignorance like that can't be kept under wraps for long . . . eventually it bursts forth, in all it's splendor, for the world to see. Well done.

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#48 bluedyedshark

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 04:48 PM

http://www.911citize...h.org/index.php

Bushs and co are guilty of complicity,I doubt very much whether Arabs of any description hi jacked those aircarft,,,this was an organised attempt at mass deception by two very close nations.One being the US and the other being???

http://www.911citize...h.org/index.php
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#49 The Beat

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:01 PM

Master
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#50 mikimouse

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:04 PM

good one Beat. Showing masterfag to be just that! Wasn't he responding to Bush being a nigger? What a loser. Lmao.
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#51 Bilbo Baggins

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:05 PM

and what their motive(agenda) is-Just follow the propaganda trail!:

(propaganda leading up to 9/11)
http://globalresearc...es/KUP206A.html
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#52 masterful

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:09 PM

Pre-emptive attack by the United States. You know what I was talking about Beat, don't try and play it off.

The 'backwoods . . ' thing was for effect, and it apparently worked. You are right, I will post whatever I choose, whenever I choose . . . and I have proven myself many times over Beat. I don't need your approval to feel good about myself.

Your post doesn't even begin to address the fact that you are disagreeing with me . . . because it's me. I consider the majority of what exists in those pages to be contrived, you disagree. That's sufficient. There is no proof that you are any more correct than I am . . . realize it, stick to it, and quit trying to make me out to be a fool. You are wasting your time . . . I am not a fool.

If you have something beneficial to add, I'm all for it, otherwise, do us both a favor, and quit disagreeing with me just to read your own words.

Miki, I don't know what you are talking about, but keep at it, you've got everyone rallying to your side.

Masterful.

btw, did you even READ the timeline I posted? It is actually VERY informative, and ventures down the same roads as the contrived BS in those links. Give it a shot Beat, then talk about this subject.
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#53 mikimouse

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:20 PM

masterfag I look forward to your obit. That's about it. You post lies and crap.:P As usual.
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#54 masterful

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 06:16 PM

How many times have I proven that you've posted outright lies? How many times have I shown you PROOF that your conclusion is incorrect? How many times have you shown me proof?

First question: At least 2.

Second question: 2.

Third question: 0.

Keep it up Miki, it's working.

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#55 mikimouse

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 08:07 PM

lmao. you're questions and your own answers! Well! That settles that! :P You're such a homo.
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#56 masterful

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 09:16 PM

Feel free to provide your own answers. I'd be happy to post the links to the threads in which you were completely debunked, should your memory fail you.

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#57 Fifth

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 09:42 PM

All the people who think sceptics are mad anti-Americans (or even anti-Republican, perish the thought!) Should ask some much more basic questions ........ without going into loads of details, here's one for you ....... why were certain USAF 'overfliers' (not to mention the 'immediate response' of that particular unit put on hold) told to remain grounded at around 6.30am on 9/11? Curious indeed. No, I'm not into conspiracy theories but something certainly backfired on someone on 9/11 with tragic consequences sadly. No-one in their right minds would think that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld etc PLANNED the disaster, that would be absurd, but more was known prior to the tragedy than has ever been admitted, that much is certainly true. And don't go blaming the intell services, there's enough buck passing and sh*t shovelling going on in that direction ......
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#58 The Beat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 12:49 AM

Excellent post. Welcome aboard.

To some this is fun, to others ............................ well, you'll see.
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#59 The Beat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 01:10 AM

I've been using this site, and many others, in my 9/11 research up to now.

http://www.cooperati...n/dayof911.html

It brings up the topics being discussed here. This doesn't mean I have to agree with every conclusion you arrive at. Last time I checked, this was still a free country.

As far as "America proper" and such, we could easily debate the reasoning behind Roosevelt's movement of ships from the safe port of San Diego to the far outpost of then territory Hawaii. We could have a discussion till the cow's come home about whether the Maine was blown up by American sailors while in the harbor at Havana, or not.

Whatever.

You have a different conclusion, obviously, than I do.

BTW, Fifth

It does point in the direction of complicity of the current administration. AND it uses a ton of newspaper clippings to boot.
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#60 Fifth

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 10:37 AM

Originally posted by The Beat
It does point in the direction of complicity of the current administration. AND it uses a ton of newspaper clippings to boot.




Beatnik ......... First of all thanks for the welcome.

You may be right when you say that things point in the direction of complicity. However, to me, complicity and conspiracy are not necessarily the same thing. I also feel that once you talk about 'conspiracies' then many of the issues get clouded and people lose direction while searching for the truth.

I've heard SO many different conspiracy theories about 9/11 that my eyes begin to glaze over ! Most of them are not based on any facts but have a basis in people's discontent and in their feeling that the 'truth' (whatever that may be) is being hidden from them. So, as I said, it has backfired bigtime on the Administration whichever theory you subscribe to.

It's when people start talk about the 'dominant ideology theory' (ie who owns, controls and 'feeds' the media) that I get worried because that particular theory has been used for many, many years now in order to propogate anti-semitic feeling. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly sure that the media is indirectly 'controlled' by a whole lot of people otherwise how do you account for that fact that NO serious questions about 9/11 have ever been asked by any of the major corporations producing news (in the USA and worldwide) but all of these things being said ............. there is a world of difference, to me anyway, between complicity and conspiracy .

But, on the whole, I tend to agree with most of what you say.
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