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Did Bush Engineer 9/11??


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#81 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:36 PM

Fifth wrote: "My point is that you are talking twaddle , yet when someone offers you a possibility of the truth, you simply ignore it,why is that?"

------------------

Always the same thing from these would-be defenders of the Bush gang. Cursing, spitting, and feeble attempts at mockery.

But the one thing you never get out of them is honest debate. They won't address the facts. They CAN'T address the facts!


As shole:

Start with this: Show me the names of any Arabs on any of the 911 passenger plane manifests. Show me their names on the DNA recreation of the passenger list that Bush's FBI alleges they gathered from the plane that they allege crashed into the Pentagon on 911 (and then vanished into thin air). Show me their video images at the airports involved (everyone at airports was videoed multiple times - there were video cameras everywhere at airports).

Tell me how these "Arabs" who weren't on board, and couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna, and are mostly alive and well and living in the middle east today, and who lived next door to the Israeli spies in florida and accross the street from the NSA offices, and who were whooping it up as loudly as possible the night of 9/10, and who supposedly waltzed through all teh security checkponts with all their boxcutters and guns and mace - show me how they had the run of the most tightly guarded airspace in teh world - teh US northeast corridor - on teh most maximum alert day in history - for almost two hours on 911, while the President spent a leisurely afternoon smiling broadly and chatting with schoolkids about their pet goats!

Tell me. I'm waiting. I'm listening.



ONG


P.S. I'm drawing up the long thread on this on the Main forum, because you have to go over and over the same ground with these BS artists and never get anyplace. They just ignore you and think of what clever thing they can say next, about tin foil hats or something.
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#82 acdbrn666

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:44 PM

Ong.

I was stuck in traffic on 395 north overlooking the Pentagon and I saw the plane hit the building. Please do not say a plane never hit the Pentagon. People on this site make many claims about who was at the controls or that it was remotely controlled by aliens or Dick Cheney controlled it from his cell phone or Ariel Sharon programed it to crash, whatever. I will not get into that. But don't ever say it never happened. I was there you were not.
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#83 bluedyedshark

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:44 PM

just who did hijack those planes?

http://www.ilaam.net...ListPuzzle.html

# Were the 9-11 Hijackers Really Arabs? Maybe Not - 12/21/2001

http://www.ilaam.net...ListPuzzle.html
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#84 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:54 PM

Ong.

I was stuck in traffic on 395 north overlooking the Pentagon and I saw the plane hit the building. Please do not say a plane never hit the Pentagon. People on this site make many claims about who was at the controls or that it was remotely controlled by aliens or Dick Cheney controlled it from his cell phone or Ariel Sharon programed it to crash, whatever. I will not get into that. But don't ever say it never happened. I was there you were not.

--------------------

ACD - then you are AG/13?

I am very skeptical that you actually saw the plane hit the Pent. on 911. If you were stuck in traffic you may have seen the plane APPROACHING the Pentagon as did many other witnesses. However, some witnesses say they saw the large plane shadowed by a smaller plane and then fly right over the Pentagon, the smaller plane presumably firing a MISSILE into the Pent.

I do not know what happened at the Pent. There are extremely suspicious and unexplained elements involved, many.

The FBI IMMEDIATELY confiscated all videos of the event.

the lawn that the plane was supposed to have bounced off was intact in the photos.

There is no jumbo jet sized damage to the Pent.

There is hardly any wreckage in teh photos.

The jumbo jet, supposedly piloted by "Arabs" who didn't even know how to fly, made amazing below tree top level maneuvres in order to get to the side of the Pent. that was not in its flight path, the back side, the side in which the "Important" people were not situated.

These maneuvres were reportedly beyond the G-force governors built into these passenger aircraft and so would not even have been possible.

To repeat: I do not know about this aspect of the 911 hoax. Mike Rivero of WRH thinks that it is a red herring.


Ong
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#85 masterful

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 04:58 PM

The problem, Fifth, is not that people are interested in bickering . . . it's that they don't read the information other people post. Had my friend here read my past posts, he would see that I am not a Bush defender . . . I voted for Gore (this might be the fifth time I've posted this).

If I'm a defender of anything, it's the need to remain neutral until ample proof presents itself otherwise. Most of these people are adept enough to realize that certain things seem out of place . . . but they instantly take that to mean that it's a big conspiracy at the hands of the US government, who is hell bent on taking over the world and oppressing everyone that doesn't fly the red, white, and blue. There is no middle ground.

Had he read the link that I posted to a page calling itself the 'Complete 9/11 Timeline', he would realize that I am reading the same type of information he is, and reserving the right to render judgement at this point. There is not yet enough proof to make a decision either way . . . simply enough discrepancies to be wary of believing what you hear on the news. That timeline explains in GREAT detail exactly how it is that some "guy hiding in a cave in the Himalayan foothills, a long time business partner of the president's family, somehow engineered the whole thing just "because he hates our freedom", could have engineered such a thing.

For the record, Ong, Osama is NOT, nor has he ever BEEN a business partner of the Bush family. This is the kind of mistruth that leads to idiotic conclusions. Osama's older brother had indepth financial dealings with the Bush family, and many others . . . read the timeline and be enlightened. Otherwise, continue to take potshots from the cheap seats of the uninformed, and you will be written off and ignored.

You get used to it Fifth. It's a fight for every inch around here I assure you.

Masterful.
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#86 masterful

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:05 PM

Don't know how to fly?!? ONG are you insane?!! There are records of these people taking flight lessons as far back as 1993, and a HUGE amount of activity starting around 1996. Al-Qaeda all but OWNED an airline in Afghanistan called Ariana Airlines, that was eventually shutdown for the smuggling of drugs and money in and out of Afghanistan for YEARS. They were found to be in violation of US restrictions by the FBI for trying to buy a flight simulator in 2000 . . .

Do you have ANY clue about what you speak, or are you relying on Mike Rivero of WRH to tell you what to think?

Masterful.
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#87 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:06 PM

Re Masterful


Notice how, as always, they just totally ignore almost everything I said.

Are you trying to tell me now thet the 911 Timeline website SUPPORTS the Bush gang's lies? Are you nuts?

As for the Bin ladin family and the Bush family, they are long time business partners in the Carlysle Group. The Bin Ladins have visted the Bushes in texas. On one occasion, one of the Bin Ladins was killed in a small plane crash right after leaving their meeting (a recurring theme for people involved with the Bushes and Clintons).

On 9/12/01, when all civilian air traffic in the country was grounded, the Osama Bin Ladin family was flown OUT of the USA.

Now address my message above. I am still waiting.


Ong
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#88 acdbrn666

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:08 PM

Yes Ong I did see it,

No I am not AG/13 (but I play him on TV)

There was no smaller plan that I saw. And no passenger planes flew over the building. It hit the ground right near the helicopter pad and slamed into the building. The only reason the damage wasn't as bad as it could have been was that the plane did not fly into the building like New York and the section that was hit had just finished being rebuilt with the latest tecnology to counter truck/car bombs and the latest fire suppresion equipment, for instance the girders had been treated with new fire retardent materials. If the plane had hit the opposite side that had not been rebuilt the damage and death toll would have been far worse. The local news here did show pieces of aircraft and I will try to get those for you. What the FBI did with the camera tapes from around the area I have no idea.
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#89 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:25 PM

Don't know how to fly?!? ONG are you insane?!! There are records of these people taking flight lessons as far back as 1993, and a HUGE amount of activity starting around 1996. Al-Qaeda all but OWNED an airline in Afghanistan called Ariana Airlines, that was eventually shutdown for the smuggling of drugs and money in and out of Afghanistan for YEARS. They were found to be in violation of US restrictions by the FBI for trying to buy a flight simulator in 2000 . . .


--- these "Arabs" were attending flight school here in the USA - a flight school that was connected to the CIA! Why would they even be doing that in the first place, except to attract attention to themselves? Why didn't they learn to fly in afghanistan or the middle east? At any rate, their flight instructor said that far from being able to even fly a single-engine Cessna, he doubted that they were even capable of driving car, so incompetant were they. In addition, they reportedly told him taht they weren't interested in learning to take off or land. Why would anyone say something like that, except to attract attention and set off red warning lights?

---Flight simulators? MS Flight Sim is sold in every computer store in the country. Any kid with $40 can buy one.




Do you have ANY clue about what you speak, or are you relying on Mike Rivero of WRH to tell you what to think?

---Knock off the bulls hit and address the issues that I just mentioned.


--- Ong
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#90 masterful

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:26 PM

No, Ong, for the umpteenth time, I am not saying that anything supports the "the Bush gang's lies?". I am telling you, for the last time, that you don't have enough information to justify making a decision about 'whodunit'. The fact that you dismiss Osama to be some guy that was hiding in a cave while all this was going on, and making statements like, 'that don't know how to fly' . . . just proves that you aren't as informed as you would like to think. Don't be pissed off by it, don't take it as a personal affront, realize it . . . and go FIX it! I'm not telling you that you are stupid, or that everything you have to say is ridiculous . . . I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure you have good things to say. However, in this case, you're making too large of a leap on too little information. You have got to read many sides, and from multiple angles . . . and even then you may not feel confident in making a decision.

Don't take things so personal, it's not about you (or me for that matter) . . . it's about the truth Ong.

Masterful.
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#91 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:32 PM

Yes Ong I did see it,

No I am not AG/13 (but I play him on TV)

-- Huh? f it's a tv reference, i wouldn't know because I don't watch tv (Kill your tv!!!).


There was no smaller plan that I saw. And no passenger planes flew over the building.

--- Some witnesses reported that.

It hit the ground right near the helicopter pad and slamed into the building.

-- Why then was the ground in front of the Pent. totally intact in the photos?

The only reason the damage wasn't as bad as it could have been was that the plane did not fly into the building like New York and the section that was hit had just finished being rebuilt with the latest tecnology to counter truck/car bombs and the latest fire suppresion equipment,

-- Yes, it flew out of its flight path - made radical turns to get out of its flight path - to avoid hitting the side of the Pent. where it would have caused the most damage and where the bigshots' offices were located. It then struck the one part of the Pent. that had recently been reinforced.



for instance the girders had been treated with new fire retardent materials. If the plane had hit the opposite side that had not been rebuilt the damage and death toll would have been far worse. The local news here did show pieces of aircraft and I will try to get those for you.

-- There appears to be a couple of random and isolated objects on the lawn in the photos, but no jumbo jet wreckage.

What the FBI did with the camera tapes from around the area I have no idea.

-- I am unfamiliar with Washington roads. What road were you on and where exactly would you have been situated in order to have had a clear view of the actual crash from your vehicle. This sounds very unlikely to me.


--- Ong
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#92 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:41 PM

No, Ong, for the umpteenth time, I am not saying that anything supports the "the Bush gang's lies?". I am telling you, for the last time, that you don't have enough information to justify making a decision about 'whodunit'.

-- Look, pal, it's not me that has all the answers. I didn't fuc kin do it! It was the US mass media that, in unison, as always, about five minutes after the event, started trumpeting the name of Bin Ladin - based on what evidence?

-- I'm the guy with the questions. I want to know why there were no Arabs on the planes and who warned all the Israelis at the WTC and why NORAD was grounded until the action was all over and why Silverstein said he took down #6 and #7 on 911. And I want to know why the US media isn't asking these questions.




The fact that you dismiss Osama to be some guy that was hiding in a cave while all this was going on, and making statements like, 'that don't know how to fly' . . . just proves that you aren't as informed as you would like to think. Don't be pissed off by it, don't take it as a personal affront, realize it . . . and go FIX it! I'm not telling you that you are stupid, or that everything you have to say is ridiculous . . . I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure you have good things to say. However, in this case, you're making too large of a leap on too little information. You have got to read many sides, and from multiple angles . . . and even then you may not feel confident in making a decision.


--- Yes, I do, and I am. that's what I try to do.

Don't take things so personal, it's not about you (or me for that matter) . . . it's about the truth Ong.


--- yes, we agree on that. Anyway, I'll say this for you, at least you are responding to certain extent and not just doing the same old mocking cursing and disappearing act that all the other would-be defenders of the establishment do.

---Now kindly address the issues that I raised.

--- Thank you.

--- OngplanesMasterful.
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#93 Ong'sHat

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:43 PM

I've got to go now.

Later.


- Ong
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#94 masterful

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 05:46 PM

"five minutes after the event, started trumpeting the name of Bin Ladin - based on what evidence?"

Based on 10+ years of evidence building to the motive, intent, and method, and a RIDICULOUS amount evidence to tie the people involved to Al Qaeda. Ong, save us time and read the timeline. It won't change your conclusion I'm sure, but it will change the process by which you get to it.

Masterful.
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#95 acdbrn666

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 06:04 PM

It hit the ground right near the helicopter pad and slamed into the building.

-- Why then was the ground in front of the Pent. totally intact in the photos?

**The helicopter pad is about 10 feet from the building.

The only reason the damage wasn't as bad as it could have been was that the plane did not fly into the building like New York and the section that was hit had just finished being rebuilt with the latest tecnology to counter truck/car bombs and the latest fire suppresion equipment,

-- Yes, it flew out of its flight path - made radical turns to get out of its flight path - to avoid hitting the side of the Pent. where it would have caused the most damage and where the bigshots' offices were located. It then struck the one part of the Pent. that had recently been reinforced.

**It left its flight path well over 40 or so miles away. Since you are not familiar with the area. The plane took off flying west from Dulles airport which is at least 25 miles West of the Pentagon. Once it turned back east it was a straight shot into the western wall of the building. At no time did the plane ever approach the building form the east. Had the plane taken off from National airport which is east of the building and almost right next to it then yes it would have had to make very fast sharp turns.

** It was not the one part that had been renovated. It was the 3rd. The fourth is under construction now.

** Each military branches head is in seperate wedges. Secreatry Rusmfields office was in the wedge next to the one that got hit and had already been remodled. And at no point during the incident did he leave the Pentagon. He was there early on helping remove the wounded.

**The section of 395 is an overpass that overlooks the Pentagon right at the side that got hit and the gently turns to the right less (than 100 yards from the building at some points) as it goes around the Pentagon onto the 14th street bridge and into the district. There are no obstructions from the road to the building.
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#96 Fifth

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Ong'sHat
Fifth wrote: "My point is that you are talking twaddle , yet when someone offers you a possibility of the truth, you simply ignore it,why is that?"

------------------

Always the same thing from these would-be defenders of the Bush gang. Cursing, spitting, and feeble attempts at mockery.

But the one thing you never get out of them is honest debate. They won't address the facts. They CAN'T address the facts!


As shole:

Start with this: Show me the names of any Arabs on any of the 911 passenger plane manifests. Show me their names on the DNA recreation of the passenger list that Bush's FBI alleges they gathered from the plane that they allege crashed into the Pentagon on 911 (and then vanished into thin air). Show me their video images at the airports involved (everyone at airports was videoed multiple times - there were video cameras everywhere at airports).

Tell me how these "Arabs" who weren't on board, and couldn't even fly a single engine Cessna, and are mostly alive and well and living in the middle east today, and who lived next door to the Israeli spies in florida and accross the street from the NSA offices, and who were whooping it up as loudly as possible the night of 9/10, and who supposedly waltzed through all teh security checkponts with all their boxcutters and guns and mace - show me how they had the run of the most tightly guarded airspace in teh world - teh US northeast corridor - on teh most maximum alert day in history - for almost two hours on 911, while the President spent a leisurely afternoon smiling broadly and chatting with schoolkids about their pet goats!

Tell me. I'm waiting. I'm listening.



ONG


P.S. I'm drawing up the long thread on this on the Main forum, because you have to go over and over the same ground with these BS artists and never get anyplace. They just ignore you and think of what clever thing they can say next, about tin foil hats or something.




ONG ......... don't include ME as a supporter of Bush ...... I'm certainly not, no way. I simply asked if you wanted the truth. But obviously you prefer to spout your own stuff over and over again ........ well, in a way, good for you, at least you are asking some of the right questions. But to be called a 'Bush' supported I find insulting.
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#97 The Beat

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 12:41 AM

a
crown
doesn't
bring
rain
nowhere

How close???

About how many people would you say were traveling on that stretch of road at the time? I'm sure a majority would have noticed something odd with a plane a few hundred feet overhead. And surely when it slammed into the building there must have been a deafening sound, followed by chaos.

Were you close enough to see the first effects, or perhaps so close that you or your car was damaged. I'm very curious because this is the first time anyone has said, "I saw it hit the Pentagon!", that I can post to.

Certainly, as the story goes, this huge jet slams into the ground floor of the Pentagon. Most assuredly there should be hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses. Yet, I vaguely remember listening to one or two at the beginning and then practically nothing. Is it because the story grew stale right away?? The two actual witnesses had already made the round of talk shows?? People were asking exhobitant prices for being interviewed and the news media refused to pay??

Can you start to explain any, some or all of the anomalies that have grown legs and sprouted willy-nilly to the four winds??
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#98 salialioli

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 01:07 AM

Originally posted by acdbrn666
Ong.

I was stuck in traffic on 395 north overlooking the Pentagon and I saw the plane hit the building. Please do not say a plane never hit the Pentagon. People on this site make many claims about who was at the controls or that it was remotely controlled by aliens or Dick Cheney controlled it from his cell phone or Ariel Sharon programed it to crash, whatever. I will not get into that. But don't ever say it never happened. I was there you were not.



Fine. Prove it. I wasn't there. I just see press photos that depict an unbelievable scene. Big bumps. what are they? How did these Muslims Suspend Huge Things on the underbelly of an aircraft. I don't get it. How come no one saw them? On the ground I mean. Was the real pilot that drunk before he took off?
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#99 The Beat

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 01:54 AM

Please explain this, "Was the real pilot that drunk before he took off?"
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#100 Ong'sHat

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 02:01 AM

Re The Beat's comments above.

Yes, this also the very first time that i have heard someone say that they actually saw the plane clearly strike the Pentagon. I would like it if you could explain in detail exactly what you saw. This would be an important documentation.

Meanwhile, here are some exceedingly interesting photographs of the Pentagon scene taken right after 9/11:

http://www.asile.org.../erreurs_en.htm

http://thewebfairy.c...n/flight77.html

Where is the Boeing? Where is the jumbo jet sized damage? They said that the jet bounced off the lawn, but the lawn appears intact.

The very same British-Australian firm that was used to clear away the debris (evidence) at OK City and teh WTC was also used here.

And here are some very interesting quotes by some witnesses:

[I]"Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film."

"I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane."


"There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went
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